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Mexcillent posted:Ancestral Puebloans (Anasazi) weren't that, though. Unless they caused climate change or Athabaskan migration. It's bigger than that, really: the entire basis of the modern concept of ecological conservation and land management is absolute nonsense in an animistic world where rivers are clean because the river god is pleased, and rivers get polluted because people didn't show respect by dropping tiny baskets of fresh currant buns into the river. You don't need to protect Mother Nature*; Mother Nature has dragons for that. *Except against soul-eating elves and abyssals, obviously.
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Jun 1, 2013 05:09
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Plague of Hats posted:We've already talked publicly about how it's awful that hearthstones have been "Some random magic rock of +3 self-satisfaction. Oh yeah and I guess a magic house is involved?" Hearthstones will be important in different ways and also not grab bag bullshit. Sorry bro I don't read Nishikriya close enough.
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Jun 1, 2013 05:09
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Mexcillent posted:Sorry bro I don't read Nishikriya close enough. I didn't mean it like "You would already know if you were a proper superfan."
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Jun 1, 2013 05:12
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:You don't need to protect Mother Nature*; Mother Nature has dragons for that. And sometimes Mother Nature knows when appreciate some drat fine architecture. There's a reason she put stone in the middle.
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Jun 1, 2013 05:15
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Plague of Hats posted:I didn't mean it like "You would already know if you were a proper superfan." No I meant that for real. Like I didn't know that you guys had said what you said. Any bigger hints on Hearthstones? Like if not cool, but...
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Jun 1, 2013 05:15
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Plague of Hats posted:We've already talked publicly about how it's awful that hearthstones have been "Some random magic rock of +3 self-satisfaction. Oh yeah and I guess a magic house is involved?" Hearthstones will be important in different ways and also not grab bag bullshit. Here's what I hope: you add a Hearthstone's rating to your flat essence regeneration, so that someone carrying the power core of a 5-dot Manse around regains 10m/round rather than 5. But, you still have to bend an entire landscape so it suits your enlightened will to get one.
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Jun 1, 2013 06:17
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Ferrinus posted:Here's what I hope: you add a Hearthstone's rating to your flat essence regeneration, so that someone carrying the power core of a 5-dot Manse around regains 10m/round rather than 5. But, you still have to bend an entire landscape so it suits your enlightened will to get one. I hope not, that will make it a requirement for fights.
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Jun 1, 2013 06:36
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:It's bigger than that, really: the entire basis of the modern concept of ecological conservation and land management is absolute nonsense in an animistic world where rivers are clean because the river god is pleased, and rivers get polluted because people didn't show respect by dropping tiny baskets of fresh currant buns into the river.
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Jun 1, 2013 06:37
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axelsoar posted:I hope not, that will make it a requirement for fights. It would be interesting if hearthstones do boost mote regen - but only out of combat. In combat, of course, you're regaining them at max rate because FIGHTY TIME!
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Jun 1, 2013 06:40
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Also, everybody loves the Manse chapter of Oadenol's Codex. Except me. I thought it was cool when the game was like "You have a cool house? Great, that means your architect sucks. Get a better architect, and take all the coolness you're wasting on your house, and use it to make a better magic rock." I liked the best manses being ecologically neutral temples to minimalism and artistic austerity, and anything more showy than that being the architect compensating for something. I've been permanently overruled on that matter by everybody else on the project, and I am okay with this.
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Jun 1, 2013 06:47
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axelsoar posted:I hope not, that will make it a requirement for fights. We've heard that many fights end before either combatant has spent more than half their motes, so not a requirement requirement. It'd be a huge boost, though, and a pleasantly straightforward one. Remember in 1e and 2e just impatiently flipping past pages and pages of +2 to Socialize rolls bullshit until you finally found the Ice Blade Gem or Seven Leaping Dragons stone or whatever? I'd rather all unique Hearthstone powers be cool stunts and weird utility tricks, and the actual direct fight(or other high-stakes, high-speed conflict)-winning properties of a Hearthstone be obvious and universal. Kenlon posted:It would be interesting if hearthstones do boost mote regen - but only out of combat. In combat, of course, you're regaining them at max rate because FIGHTY TIME! Out of combat mote regeneration should never be important. All limited essence regain does is encourage you to to not do things, and obvious disparities between the same character's capabilities are obtrusively metagamey. Stephenls posted:Also, everybody loves the Manse chapter of Oadenol's Codex. I'm on your side! Fight them! You can do it! Edit: Really, though, it's probably a good idea to make fountains of colored flame and essence-powered golem servitors be an automatic byproduct of a successful manse rather than a wasteful extravagance detracting from the primarily utility of an only partially-successful manse, because when you let people choose between flavor and power in a game in which power is important, they are going to choose power and you will have pointlessly leached the flavor from your setting. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 06:50
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I personally think the best system would be starting with empty mote pools in a fight, makes the pacing way better. Though who knows, the momentum mechanic may do a proper job of pacing.
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Jun 1, 2013 06:56
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axelsoar posted:I personally think the best system would be starting with empty mote pools in a fight, makes the pacing way better. Though who knows, the momentum mechanic may do a proper job of pacing. I would be down with this, but given how momentum vaguely appears to work it might be pointless to start players with two different "you start with a bit, now build it up" resources. One thing that you're constantly trying to build and another thing that you can spend either conservatively or flagrantly probably provides more variety, although if Ex3's engine is good enough I bet some tinkering could produce a differently interesting motes-from-zero system.
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Jun 1, 2013 06:59
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On another subject, here is an important reminder: in the current build of Exalted 3rd Edition, whether you know Martial Arts is completely unrelated to whether you know Martial Arts. That's because many Martial Arts don't require the practitioner to have any Martial Arts, while, conversely, each type of Exalt will have access to a tree of Charms that aren't part of the Martial Arts, but that require Martial Arts to use. So, while your character might be a Martial Artist, they might at the same time not be a Martial Artist, or vice versa. I think they've mentioned that a Merit or something might allow you to use your Charms which require Martial Arts but aren't Martial Arts in conjunction with your Martial Arts that require Martial Arts, though I'd guess not in conjunction with your Martial Arts that don't require Martial Arts.
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Jun 1, 2013 07:08
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Ferrinus posted:On another subject, here is an important reminder: in the current build of Exalted 3rd Edition, whether you know Martial Arts is completely unrelated to whether you know Martial Arts. That's because many Martial Arts don't require the practitioner to have any Martial Arts, while, conversely, each type of Exalt will have access to a tree of Charms that aren't part of the Martial Arts, but that require Martial Arts to use. So, while your character might be a Martial Artist, they might at the same time not be a Martial Artist, or vice versa. The more you make it sound like an Abbott and Costello routine the less I mind it.
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Jun 1, 2013 07:14
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Ferrinus posted:On another subject, here is an important reminder: in the current build of Exalted 3rd Edition, whether you know Martial Arts is completely unrelated to whether you know Martial Arts. That's because many Martial Arts don't require the practitioner to have any Martial Arts, while, conversely, each type of Exalt will have access to a tree of Charms that aren't part of the Martial Arts, but that require Martial Arts to use. So, while your character might be a Martial Artist, they might at the same time not be a Martial Artist, or vice versa. Call it Unarmed. Call it Kung Fu. Call it Body. Call it Close Quarters Battle Doctrine. Just call it something that doesn't require me to parse this (and it parses just fine and I totally understand it, damnit.) If Martial Arts needs to be on the character sheet just make a BIG FAT BOX that says MARTIAL ARTS in some faffy Exalted script and STICK IT RIGHT ON THE CHARACTER SHEET and divide it into THREE PARTITIONS with CHARMS, MERITS, and TECHNIQUES inside them for your special MARTIAL ARTS CHARMS, MERITS, and TECHNIQUES. At home I'm probably just going to call it Fist.
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Jun 1, 2013 07:20
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:Call it Unarmed. Call it Kung Fu. Call it Body. Call it Close Quarters Battle Doctrine. Just call it something that doesn't require me to parse this (and it parses just fine and I totally understand it, damnit.) Some Abyssal Charms require a Marital Arts score, while others-
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Jun 1, 2013 07:40
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Ferrinus posted:Some Abyssal Charms require a Marital Arts score, while others- Require Fisting? Oh God, I'm so sorry...
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Jun 1, 2013 07:52
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My brain starts leaking out my ears when the Martial Arts thing gets described so hopefully there's some differentiation of terms there in the final product. On the subject of Manses, I just want to say that creating your own in 2E was so much more of an investment than either having one at char-gen or finding one that existed that it felt like you were an idiot for trying to build one yourself. So I do hope that Manse creation is simplified a bit, especially for smaller manses. A E4/E5 manse should probably still require National Monument level labor, but the little personal ones I'd like to be something you could build either alone or with a small team. The location of your Manse being a secret is a huge security feature for it, kind of hard to have a secret base when you have 6 teams of workers on it for six months.
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Jun 1, 2013 07:58
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mistaya posted:The location of your Manse being a secret is a huge security feature for it, kind of hard to have a secret base when you have 6 teams of workers on it for six months. Genghis Khan figured out a way with his tomb. You're an Exalt, get your atrocities started early.
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Jun 1, 2013 08:02
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I also seem to remember manses being outrageously fragile compared to say, a regular building made out of stone, which made any kind of obvious or fortress manse a terrible idea unless you went all out with it being indestructible. I mean yes, a manse was a little tougher than a stone wall, but the damage that would make a small hole in a regular stone wall would generally make the entire manse explode in a nuclear fireball. Kind of hard to really 'rely' upon a manse when some joker with a goremaul can cause the entire thing to collapse if he is left within reach of the outside wall for ten seconds.
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Jun 1, 2013 08:28
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I thought manses were basically as durable as small mountains (which is to say, hardly invincible to everything but not prone to casual destruction) unless you took 'fragility' to get more points for magic jacuzzis.
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Jun 1, 2013 08:37
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Manses are supposed to be fairly durable unless you figure out their geomancy well enough to be able to disrupt it, in which case you can do what GCG once jokingly called some ninja interior decoration, setting a catastrophic energy buildup and eventually making the manse explode. Just how easy this is depends on the writer—if you assume that most of the manse is about channeling geomancy, then any small change will knock it out of alignment; if you assume the geomagnetic bits are just a few sections within the larger structure, it'll be harder—while the actual effects of manse overload vary by edition. Specifically, in 1e, it pretty much blew up the manse and maybe damaged some surrounding buildings, while in 2e, the explosion from an overloaded manse could destroy a city. I prefer the smaller explosion because I like manses exploding to have bite, and to have bite they have to be possible, and an ST is far more likely to make a manse explode if doing so doesn't automatically kill all his local NPCs and end all his local side plots.
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Jun 1, 2013 09:06
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Stephenls posted:Manses are supposed to be fairly durable unless you figure out their geomancy well enough to be able to disrupt it, in which case you can do what GCG once jokingly called some ninja interior decoration, setting a catastrophic energy buildup and eventually making the manse explode. Just how easy this is depends on the writer—if you assume that most of the manse is about channeling geomancy, then any small change will knock it out of alignment; if you assume the geomagnetic bits are just a few sections within the larger structure, it'll be harder—while the actual effects of manse overload vary by edition. Specifically, in 1e, it pretty much blew up the manse and maybe damaged some surrounding buildings, while in 2e, the explosion from an overloaded manse could destroy a city. Some of us STs are more likely to do it for that exact reason.
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Jun 1, 2013 09:47
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Seems like the best way to handle it would just be to say "sometimes, when someone puts a deliberate effort into causing a manse to overload it can blow up violently enough to wipe out a city" and then leave the particulars up to the GMs discretion rather than trying to definitively lay it out one way or the next.
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Jun 1, 2013 10:09
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Stephenls posted:I prefer the smaller explosion because I like manses exploding to have bite, and to have bite they have to be possible, and an ST is far more likely to make a manse explode if doing so doesn't automatically kill all his local NPCs and end all his local side plots.
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Jun 1, 2013 11:43
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I like to think that earthquakes, flooding, clouds of bees, whatever - are all side effects that a damaged or sabotaged manse would produce leading up to an eventual blast. The larger the manse, the longer the buildup and the more damaging the side effects, and the larger the eventual explosion. Like, a 5-dot manse exploding should be A Big Deal, and should potentially ruinate a whole lotta crap. Where a 1- or 2-dot might just burst into flames (or burst into trees! Or spiders!). And where a 5-dot manse might cause earthquakes or unrelenting hurricane-force storms, a small one might just start darkening rocks and soil, or cause unseasonal storms or stagnant water.
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Jun 1, 2013 12:53
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Zereth posted:And even if there are runoff problems from a mining operation upriver you can deal with that by dumping twice as many tiny baskets of currant buns in and the river god will have your back. Maybe have tiny children wearing silly hats sing songs to it as well so it can keep the runoff from even entering the river in the first place and instead form it into a hand giving the finger to the mining camp. And every remotely competent school of architecture in five planes of existence tells you to budget for pleasing the gods of your work-site so poo poo like that doesn't happen. If a project doesn't follow proper procedure to maintain spiritual balance and work in alignment with the designs of heaven to cut corners, it means the management are blasphemous sleazebags who will be plagued by curses for ten generations. Ecology as magical politics is way fun.
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Jun 1, 2013 13:53
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A_Raving_Loon posted:And every remotely competent school of architecture in five planes of existence tells you to budget for pleasing the gods of your work-site so poo poo like that doesn't happen. Unless management cuts a deal with the gods of industrial pollution and shoddy construction to bring the project in under budget, and they bribe the local gods/elementals to stay out of it. Your scaffolding lacks safety rails as obeisance to One-Armed Wang, the Magistrate of Workplace Accidents. The occasional fall is the price paid to get cheap lumber from local forests out of the ordained harvest season. All these problems are of course ripe for plucky adventurers to solve. Thrilling tales of supernatural corporate governance! Conan of Cimmeria hilariously miscast in a John Grisham novel! Where are the bureaucracy charms? 
thatbastardken fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 15:47
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A_Raving_Loon posted:And every remotely competent school of architecture in five planes of existence tells you to budget for pleasing the gods of your work-site so poo poo like that doesn't happen. Reminds me of that scene in Rome where the doctor, after trepanning Titus Pullo, recommends a small offering to Spes -"A small rabbit often works"- in the same way a modern doctor might recommend a few days off work or some exercise.
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Jun 1, 2013 16:12
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thatbastardken posted:Unless management cuts a deal with the gods of industrial pollution and shoddy construction to bring the project in under budget, and they bribe the local gods/elementals to stay out of it. I think that Bartimus Hsu, exigent of one-armed Wang will make an appearance for the occasion. He's a master of bureaucracy, having made a fortune on the blessed isle by providing the lowest bid on manse renovation and construction projects. But why does he do it? He was a menial, but clever slave, having worked on many such projects himself. After a terrible workplace accident, namely involving mass murder and maiming by Eurymanthoi summoned by a certain Mnemon, he struck a deal to restore his grotesque disfigurations, in service to his patron. Though callous, sociopathic, and vain, he is motivated by revenge against the Dynasts who view people as mere means to end. There is scarcely a project for which he provides the labor that doesn't result in a series of horrifying accidents, leading to the inevitable but doomed workforce rebellions. As far as he's concerned, everyone gets what they want or deserve: the dynasts get completed manses on the cheap, one-armed Wang's influence in the bureau of humanity increases... And the lingering seeds of resentment and rebellion against the dynasts are sewn across the realm. He dreams that someday, these seeds will bear the fruit in the form of massive popular uprisings across the realm. Now, if only a charismatic, bold, and otherwise brilliant leader would emerge to lead such an uprising... nacon fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 16:17
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So I've read a fair bit of Exalted but never actually understood the rules, kind of at all. This Martial Arts versus Martial Arts thing popped up before, and was just as confusing then. Doesn't the skill Martial Arts allow you to attack with whatever weapon is favored (or whatever the word is) by whatever style you know? That seems to make it the one-true-attack-skill while also leading to situations where your zen archer can't hit the broad side of a parked airship with a crossbow or your expert swordsman doesn't know what to do with a dagger. Did people usually pick up whatever the actual attack skill is for the charms in real play? Like did players using the um, Righteous Devil Style (might have confused the name, the weirdo fire cowboy gunslinger MA) usually have a bunch of Archery charms too? Either way it seems weird - if those supplementary charms are useless everyone should only roll around with MA, if they're necessary everyone needs MA in addition to their normal attack skill. How did it actually work in practice?
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Jun 1, 2013 18:58
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The usual case was that each martial art style that wandered out of the usual bounds would demand a minimum rating in some appropriate non-MA skill. So you can only learn gun-kata if you understand the fundamentals of marksmanship, the dance-battle style can only be mastered by those who know how to move to the beat, the definitely-not-fighting socialite style takes enough manners to feign ignorance of your attempts to shiv people in the gut, and so on. There's also some rule somewhere about using the worse of your Martial arts skill, and the natural skill for your form weapon until you've advanced to some key point in the style, but I've never paid it much heed 'cause it just winds up being an exp tax. Also, the charms attached directly to the other fight skills are generally similar in power to the things you could get out of martial arts styles. Styles can give you access to a lot cool thematic gimmicks, including ones that would normally be outside the themes of your character type. A_Raving_Loon fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 19:08
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The 3e Kickstarter just passed Monte Cook's Numenera to be the biggest RPG Kickstarter ever. Good job, guys.
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Jun 2, 2013 01:34
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Attorney at Funk posted:The 3e Kickstarter just passed Monte Cook's Numenera to be the biggest RPG Kickstarter ever. Good job, guys. Word. Before this Kickstarter, I didn't know who Melissa Uran was, but her art was exactly what Exalted needed to get people fired up about it. It really helps to carry Novia Claro and Perfect Soul out of the 'Strong Female Character' ghetto and into the realm of women who women can genuinely think are badass. A ton of great people have and are going to continue to put a ton of great work into the Third Edition of Exalted, just like the authors of the past who built the core setting conceits that make it such a strong brand of RPGs.
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Jun 2, 2013 01:49
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:Word. Before this Kickstarter, I didn't know who Melissa Uran was, but her art was exactly what Exalted needed to get people fired up about it. It really helps to carry Novia Claro and Perfect Soul out of the 'Strong Female Character' ghetto and into the realm of women who women can genuinely think are badass. A ton of great people have and are going to continue to put a ton of great work into the Third Edition of Exalted, just like the authors of the past who built the core setting conceits that make it such a strong brand of RPGs. Apart from that one thing I've been really impressed and enthused by the creative and technical work that's gone into this at every step of the process.
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Jun 2, 2013 01:51
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And now we get 11 Martial Arts as well
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Jun 2, 2013 02:04
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For those who didn't know already one of the people who got the MA pledge is leaving one of his choices for the fans to decide. Voting is going on here.
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Jun 2, 2013 02:29
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kthegreat posted:For those who didn't know already one of the people who got the MA pledge is leaving one of his choices for the fans to decide. Voting is going on here. Where're Fatal* Pulse and Golden Janissary *Fatal? First? Whatever.
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Jun 2, 2013 02:38
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kthegreat posted:For those who didn't know already one of the people who got the MA pledge is leaving one of his choices for the fans to decide. Voting is going on here. If I don't get that DPC thing where you turn into the luck dragon from Neverending Story I'm going to flip out.
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Jun 2, 2013 02:41
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