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Reading was always the logical terminal, everyone knew that. Curtailing it to Maidenhead reduces the cost slightly, can help you get the original plan approved and built , and makes it much easier to go 'well we might as well add on that last bit' at a later stage. This happens all over the place with railways. Anyway the metro option of Crossrail 2 makes a LOT more sense than the route to Alexandra Palace. It's funny how 40 years ago the Vic was built to help deal with overcrowding on that North-East/South-West axis, now we need a new line to deal with overcrowding on the Vic. I still feel the real priority is the Bakerloo going South-East, but we'll see.
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Jun 2, 2013 13:36
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The 'Metro' route is the one that only goes to Ally Pally. The 'Regional' route is the one with a second branch from Angel out to Hertfordshire. Both of these names, and 'Crossrail 2' itself, are terrible and boring.
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Jun 2, 2013 13:55
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Cerv posted:The 'Metro' route is the one that only goes to Ally Pally. The 'Regional' route is the one with a second branch from Angel out to Hertfordshire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Railways There's precedent though, in possibly the dullest BR branding exercise there was.
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Jun 2, 2013 14:08
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sweek0 posted:Reading was always the logical terminal, everyone knew that. Curtailing it to Maidenhead reduces the cost slightly, can help you get the original plan approved and built , and makes it much easier to go 'well we might as well add on that last bit' at a later stage. To be honest, the cost of NOT going to Reading now by far out weighs the cost of going there. I should do a Crossrail megapost but it'll likely end up with the LX one in the to do pile forever
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Jun 2, 2013 16:22
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Bozza posted:To be honest, the cost of NOT going to Reading now by far out weighs the cost of going there. I should do a Crossrail megapost but it'll likely end up with the LX one in the to do pile forever Crossrail is more interesting than level crossings so do that first
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Jun 2, 2013 17:05
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Bobstar posted:I do love this account, but it does mean that I read things like "Delays due to a person under a train at Streatham" on the Southern feed and think "how is that funny?" Pretend it's a Tory?
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Jun 2, 2013 17:35
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Havent we been waiting about two years for the level crossing post at this point?
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Jun 2, 2013 18:12
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Zero Gravitas posted:Havent we been waiting about two years for the level crossing post at this point? Cmon bozza I want to know every detail about level crossings 
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Jun 2, 2013 18:51
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Sorry I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread as I'm just getting started reading through it, but I noticed a howler in the OP that doesn't appear to have been corrected:Bozza posted:Labour, despite being elected on a promise to renationalise the British Railway network in 1997 That's not true. The 1997 Labour Manifesto committed them to reform of the rail regulator and a public private partnership on London Underground. The '97 manifesto was notable for lacking any mention at all of nationalisation. Previously the party was constitutionally bound to a programme of nationalisation, but Blair managed to change clause four of the Labour Party constitution and so it wasn't in the '97 manifesto.
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Jun 2, 2013 19:18
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Malcolm XML posted:Cmon bozza I want to know every detail about level crossings Doesnt everyone?  We were promised an effortpost on level crossings so goddamnit thats exactly what we're gonna get! 
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Jun 2, 2013 19:39
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Zero Gravitas posted:Doesnt everyone? An one about crossrail now too 
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Jun 2, 2013 20:11
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Pretend it's a Tory? Tories don't go to Streatham.
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Jun 2, 2013 23:10
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Bobstar posted:Tories don't go to Streatham. drat loving right. (I live in Streatham)
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Jun 3, 2013 14:08
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Excuse me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyN05g1W2zQ That will be all.
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Jun 6, 2013 04:20
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I just read this entire thread and am still excited to hear about level crossings. I hope we get it by the time Crossrail makes it to Reading.
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Jun 6, 2013 07:26
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Meanwhile in Sweden, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22828150quote:Sweden male train drivers wear skirts after shorts row 
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Jun 9, 2013 17:37
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This is very much a Bozza question as he's in charge of the project (I believe) - what on earth are you doing at the end of Boyne Valley Road, the Wooton Way end - there've been two Network Rail white vans parked there during working hours on and off for the past few weeks, and I've been wondering why.
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Jun 18, 2013 13:33
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ookiimarukochan posted:This is very much a Bozza question as he's in charge of the project (I believe) - what on earth are you doing at the end of Boyne Valley Road, the Wooton Way end - there've been two Network Rail white vans parked there during working hours on and off for the past few weeks, and I've been wondering why. I was in charge of the scheme design for the project, so can't pretend to be an expert in what is actually being delivered on site, but given the general location, they are probably out with the teams which are installing the new cable troughing route alongside the railway. Trough route is the grey concrete box stuff that houses all the signalling comms and power cables which you can see alongside the track at most locations. You might have also noticed the big shiny new Network Rail portacabin city which has just appeared at the top of Silco Drive car park, which is where the Crossrail West Outer Track is being run/delivered from, and where I spend my days going to design integration meetings.
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Jun 18, 2013 15:35
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Bozza posted:I was in charge of the scheme design for the project, so can't pretend to be an expert in what is actually being delivered on site, but given the general location, they are probably out with the teams which are installing the new cable troughing route alongside the railway. Trough route is the grey concrete box stuff that houses all the signalling comms and power cables which you can see alongside the track at most locations. Join the ranks of the portacabin dwellers! Which reminds me: I noticed a rather huge portacabin block going up in the Tottenham Hale S&T facility over the last few weeks. It looked to be as big as everything else there put together. On the subject of Crossrail, there seem to be a lot of busy people working on the old Connaught tunnel the last few weeks. I understand a chunk of the dock above the tunnel has been drained, as far as I can see from the bridge. The gangs up behind the Excel centre seem to be making plenty of noise as well, last few times I was round that way. As I recall there isn't going to be a particularly convenient station near LCY on Crossrail, unfortunately...
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Jun 18, 2013 22:35
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Brovine posted:Join the ranks of the portacabin dwellers! Well, Custom House is probably less walk from the gates at City than the Heathrow Tube station are from the Heathrow gates... Also I heard that they were draining the docks to inspect the roof of the tunnel which turns out to be in much worse shape than they expected, so there's another billion on the bill.
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Jun 22, 2013 20:09
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This was an educational video released in the 70's in the UK on the dangers of playing near railway lines. It is in the mould of many educational videos of the time, and is dark as gently caress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slJyhOEo-SY
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Jun 25, 2013 12:35
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I remember reading about a hidden London Underground line in this thread, something to do with the Cold War and checking mail. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Jun 25, 2013 12:38
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Jeoh posted:I remember reading about a hidden London Underground line in this thread, something to do with the Cold War and checking mail. Anyone know what I'm talking about? This? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway
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Jun 25, 2013 12:40
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Nah it carried actual passengers, found that one already (pretty cool idea, using the Underground for cargo).
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Jun 25, 2013 12:48
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Jeoh posted:Nah it carried actual passengers, found that one already (pretty cool idea, using the Underground for cargo). The Post Office Railway did carry passengers (unofficially and semi-illegally because the signalling wasn't up to the correct standard for passenger use I believe), lots of post office staff would use it to commute from Whitechapel Head Office out to the others as Whitechapel was the only one with spare parking. There was a long-standing conspiracy theory that it was to be used to evacuate the Government from London in the event of a nuclear attack because it went under a number of Government buildings and the Paddington terminus was adjacent to the GWR, which ran down to Corsham where the Continuation of Government Centre was (allegedly) located. (Similar theories exist for the District Line on the Underground, for the same reason, as well as the Piccadilly Line which has a ghost station (Down Street) and siding under what was once a major Ministry of War building and was used by Churchill as air raid shelter prior to the completion of the Cabinet War Rooms, and about most of the other central tube lines because all of them travel almost directly under two ore more sensitive sites)
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Jun 25, 2013 13:08
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Jeoh posted:Nah it carried actual passengers, found that one already (pretty cool idea, using the Underground for cargo). Possibly this article? However accurate the mail checking may be, it seems a likely way to remember the piece, and it's a fun read even if it is the wrong train.
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Jun 25, 2013 13:13
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I found it, it's the Clapham Junction – Kensington Olympia service, also known as the Kenny Belle. Here's some more information: http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/a-beeching-epilogue-the-curious-case-of-the-clapham-junction-ghost-train/ e:fb. Well that'll teach me not to read articles before posting a reply!
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Jun 25, 2013 13:20
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That's presumably the same line that's now part of the Clapham-Willesden leg of the Overground. Given how busy that link is now (as it's a great shortcut for anyone coming in to Waterloo to the west side of town) it's possible they kept it secret just so they didn't get overcrowded, especially in the days before the Jubilee Line Extension.
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Jun 25, 2013 14:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's presumably the same line that's now part of the Clapham-Willesden leg of the Overground. Given how busy that link is now (as it's a great shortcut for anyone coming in to Waterloo to the west side of town) it's possible they kept it secret just so they didn't get overcrowded, especially in the days before the Jubilee Line Extension. I occasionally have to travel from near Balham to Acton, and discovered this line after about 2 years, a mysterious service between Purley and Milton Keynes via Clapham Junction and Olympia. Completely out of place on the tube map, but bizarrely useful.
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Jun 25, 2013 23:24
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Incidentally, the HS2 preparation bill (the so-called "blank cheque") gets its Second Reading today. Will be fun to see the NIMBYs complain about "outstanding beauty!" and how Birmingham will lose out with HS2 because Curzon Street is supposedly in the middle of nowhere.
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Jun 26, 2013 11:50
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I'm curious how the partial handover of local West Anglia services to TFL is going to end up. As I understand it, the current plan is to hand the entire Seven Sisters route plus the Chingford route over to TFL. How's that going to work out for engineering work on the Tottenham Hale route?
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Jun 30, 2013 20:10
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Brovine posted:I'm curious how the partial handover of local West Anglia services to TFL is going to end up. As I understand it, the current plan is to hand the entire Seven Sisters route plus the Chingford route over to TFL. How's that going to work out for engineering work on the Tottenham Hale route? I'm intrigued by this as well. The Tottenham Hale branch is part of one of the Crossrail 2 options, so there could be major work on that line. And even if that option isn't chosen, Enfield Council have put in a request for the line to be upgraded, which would mean major work on the line.
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Jun 30, 2013 21:39
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kingturnip posted:I'm intrigued by this as well. The Tottenham Hale branch is part of one of the Crossrail 2 options, so there could be major work on that line. And even if that option isn't chosen, Enfield Council have put in a request for the line to be upgraded, which would mean major work on the line. The suggestion I'd heard on upgrades was four-tracking from the Stratford junction up to at least Brimsdown, as virtually all the trackbed and bridges are still intact from pre-electrification. The idea seemed to be increasing local all-stations services along there, sending them down to Stratford via Lea Bridge. No idea if that was still the case. Getting the slower trains out the way of semi-fasts from Stortford and points north sounds like a good idea to me.
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Jul 1, 2013 10:24
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TinTower posted:Incidentally, the HS2 preparation bill (the so-called "blank cheque") gets its Second Reading today. Will be fun to see the NIMBYs complain about "outstanding beauty!" and how Birmingham will lose out with HS2 because Curzon Street is supposedly in the middle of nowhere. Yes, let's all laugh at the Tory-voting shits, etc but there are also many council properties along the route in urban areas that are likely to be affected as well, what measures are being lined up to ensure those tenants are rehoused locally and the needs of these communities are adequately provided for? Even the ones whose homes aren't required to be demolished are likely to suffer increased noise and vibration, no? Given the current climate and certain councils' vile practices of shipping out their poorest citizens to cheaper parts of the country, forgive me for not having much faith in the likelihood of those in greatest need getting fair and just treatment in all this.
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Jul 1, 2013 13:23
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So, can someone explain to me just *how* this situation arose? I wanna visit a friend in Maidstone. I'm in Bromley. A single ticket is 13.60. A same day return is 13.70. An open return is 29 something aka more than 2 singles combined. :whatthechrist:
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Jul 1, 2013 15:24
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Same day returns are just a way of trying to encourage booking out seats on the trains and the open return is any train in the next month which can make planning for it harder, hence the cost. I mean I doubt they ever really change the size of the trains based on ticket sales but it allows them to get figures on how to maximise their money.
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Jul 1, 2013 17:03
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There has never really been a centralised look at all the fares on the system, there are simply too many. You have to remember that each and every fare has a history lasting like 100+ years, and whoever sets the fare at the time probably just does some % increase without comparing it to 'competing' fares. If they actually knew that two singles were more expensive than a return they would change it, either by lowering the return or the singles. And in some cases if they do that, then they need to change other fares and maybe there is some imbalance elsewhere. The short of it is that the fare system is too complicated for anyone to get a handle of it entirely, so historic trends will cause local anomalies. This is why split ticketing often works as well. There are also some other reasons that have come across more recently through privatisation due to different companies raising fares using different methods, and different types of ticket for the same journey may be priced by different companies. Also some fares are regulated by the DfT to ensure fares don't increase too quickly, but only some. Things get more complicated when you try to make sure that prices are a suitable fraction of the season ticket etc. However, in THIS case there is a semi-logical reason. The single ticket is an Anytime so its going to be poor value (£13.50) compared to the Off-peak day return (£13.60) just because of that (an Anytime return is £16). Why there isn't a off-peak single is a separate issue. Neither of these are valid using High Speed 1 from St Pancras. The off-peak return (£29.40), where you can return on any day up to a month, IS valid on HS1, making it more expensive. This is despite this particular journey being quicker by the normal train. There are a whole bunch of other fares for use on HS1 which makes the £29.40 fare look more reasonable, despite it being not being the best route. I'm guessing this came about because Southeastern just did a blanket formula to work out how much they should charge for HS1 without checking to see whether it would even be a reasonable route for all of their journeys. I can't wait to see what HS2 will bring. Edit: I've just realised that this journey isn't even valid via HS1. Despite that this is how all these fares are priced: "Not via HS1" or "Any Permitted". This means that there is no difference in route validity between the two, but one costs about £13 more. Bizarre. nozz fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 17:13
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Brovine posted:Getting the slower trains out the way of semi-fasts from Stortford and points north sounds like a good idea to me. Given how much stuff is right next to the railway most of the way, the easiest (cheapest?) option would be to expand Brimsdown or Ponders End stations to 4 tracks. Those stations aren't far off halfway between Broxbourne (which already has 4 tracks) and Tottenham Hale, where every train stops anyway. So suburban services could stop and wait there while a fast train goes through.
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Jul 1, 2013 23:45
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Is it TfL's intention that most/all London suburban services under the Overground banner? It would make sense, but I'm wondering how it'd work with their turn-up-and-go philosophy.
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Jul 2, 2013 16:18
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TinTower posted:Is it TfL's intention that most/all London suburban services under the Overground banner? It would make sense, but I'm wondering how it'd work with their turn-up-and-go philosophy. So far they've mostly been opportunistic, taking over lines where the track and/or rolling stock were badly in need of replacement but the train company has been reluctant to do so. It probably is at the back of their mind that eventually they'll own most of the non-mainline track and stations in London (and possibly even London Bridge and Cannon Street) but it's probably not actually written down anywhere because of course they don't want to terrify the Government by being seen to have any long-term plans that don't involve handing over huge amounts of money to the private sector. I think even TfL have been surprised by how popular the Overground has been though, and I think you can apportion a lot of that to it being fully integrated with Oyster and, crucially, with the standard Underground map. Even though you can of course use Oyster on most rail services now, putting the Overground on the Tube map has removed a big psychological barrier; people who previously avoided suburban rail because of it's sometimes terrifyingly arcane pricing structure just treat it like any other Tube line now. As to the different ticketing regime and its workability - if the Met (and the Overground) can work out to Watford and the Central Line out to Epping, there's no particular reason the Overground can't work out to Sidcup, for example.
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Jul 2, 2013 17:21
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