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Captain Diarrhoea posted:Come on it's fun.* I had fun with it, and used it consistently enough so that I could reliably snipe enemy generals if the opponent didn't realize what I was doing. So yeah, it's gamey as gently caress and requires some fixing.
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Jun 2, 2013 23:56
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Chomp8645 posted:This was fixed a while ago in Shogun 2. All maps have dojos now (instead of only some of them), and if you control all the dojos for 10 minutes you auto-win. If you just collect the dojos then a camper will have to contest at least one of them, and the skirmishing almost always results in a full scale engagement because their only alternative is to throw units away one a time contesting points. Huh I never knew they made that change, pretty excellent.
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Jun 3, 2013 00:36
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Lord Hypnostache posted:I had fun with it, and used it consistently enough so that I could reliably snipe enemy generals if the opponent didn't realize what I was doing. So yeah, it's gamey as gently caress and requires some fixing. They should just disable it in multiplayer. It's a fun gimmick to have in single player but it's just stupid to have it in multiplayer.
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Jun 3, 2013 01:20
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Chomp8645 posted:This was fixed a while ago in Shogun 2. All maps have dojos now (instead of only some of them), and if you control all the dojos for 10 minutes you auto-win. If you just collect the dojos then a camper will have to contest at least one of them, and the skirmishing almost always results in a full scale engagement because their only alternative is to throw units away one a time contesting points. Might be the same guy I fought. He sat on a hill and dared me to approach. Turns out that sitting next to the forest running all the way around the map can lead to unpleasant surprises. He also got mad that I didn't charge into his perfectly placed killzone. I mean, there is nothing wrong with taking a defensive position if you think you are outmatched. Attacking always comes with a penalty if your opponent knows what he is doing. But defending isn't camping. You still have to counter maneuver and look for pickoffs when one of his units is out of position.
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Jun 3, 2013 01:30
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I don't know if you guys have seen this yet but I found this campaign map that somebody pieced together from all of the info released so far.
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Jun 3, 2013 05:59
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If that's accurate then holy poo poo, Carthage gets a huge land advantage at the start. That's what, five provinces to Rome's three and the Ptolemies'... six? Oh. Oh. It must have something to do with the new province system, then. Everybody only starts with... half-provinces? Trippy.
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Jun 3, 2013 07:22
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Grand Prize Winner posted:If that's accurate then holy poo poo, Carthage gets a huge land advantage at the start. That's what, five provinces to Rome's three and the Ptolemies'... six? Oh. Oh. It must have something to do with the new province system, then. Everybody only starts with... half-provinces? Trippy. Rome looks like four provinces, actually - you can see the border just below "Italia". And of course, more to the point, not all provinces are created equal.
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Jun 3, 2013 10:25
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It would be interesting to see Rome 2 start with the actual possibility of Rome getting the poo poo kicked out of it by Carthage. In Rome 1 you kinda started out stronger than everyone else and then kept getting stronger.
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Jun 3, 2013 12:02
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It's an impressive map, but I wouldn't put too much faith in it until we have an official source. Anyways, Jack Lusted apparently went on a posting streak over the weekend defending the army changes, with the answers consolidated into one thread. It's a bit huffy in places, and too long to just copy paste, but worth reading. http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/68061-Jack-Lusted-s-clarification-of-army-cap I like that "80% of battles are auto-resolved" statistic, because it's so true, especially late game. Dozens of trivial battles, all sieges all the time and garrison spam in place of fighting enemy armies are some of the biggest long-standing issues in TW games and it's nice to see some attempt to address them.
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Jun 3, 2013 15:06
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I know it really shouldn't, but it always surprises me how mad or panicky people get when [newthing] isn't the same as [oldthing], like every time. The new army system sounds boss, having the limit not scale entirely with the size of your empire means exactly where you place and how you use what tinyarmydudes you do have could be way more important.
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Jun 3, 2013 17:00
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The idea of not having to deal with little stacks wandering around razing all my poo poo as they run away from my armies sounds like the greatest loving thing ever. I was always a player who favored 2-3 solid stacks and hated the little rebel groups I had to run around dealing with. It was constant tedium, nothing more. The changes sound fantastic and I'm glad to see the devs willing to defend them from the shitlords.
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Jun 3, 2013 17:52
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I love how the dumb asses think they are much better than one of the few guys who got hired because he could loving develop games of this series. Keep on sperging TWC. Sincerely, a massive sperg.
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Jun 3, 2013 18:09
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I think a lot of people get in the mindset of "The next one will be flawless, all they need to do is make the game setting X and then just change it a little. Little more. Little more. Perf-NOOO YOU WENT TOO FAR IT WAS SO BEAUTIFUL THE WOODS ARE BURNING  "
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Jun 3, 2013 18:25
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Be careful of changing a successful formula too much just for the sake of change though - down that road lies Diablo 3.
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Jun 3, 2013 18:39
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melon farmer posted:Be careful of changing a successful formula too much just for the sake of change though - down that road lies Diablo 3. They're not exactly changing the formula up much though, it's more that they are refining it and making a working formula even better. I mean who other than the massive spergs really enjoy battles that feel absolutely meaningless since you have to beat up three more stacks to even make some progress? Fewer battles and sieges is the right way to go and it's really great that they are using the statistics they get from steam to enhance the game.
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Jun 3, 2013 18:50
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I bought the Grandmaster pack thing a couple months ago for $30bux, which is a complete anthology of the Total War games. I tried playing Shogun 2 ROTS as babby's first game and got so confused and gave up. I attempted TW again last week. I fired up Shogun 2 as the Chosokabe and had a great time, actually winning some battles (though I'll probably still lose the campaign  ) This is pretty fun, now that I understand it. Thanks, thread  I was told in this thread that starting with Shogun 2 was a good idea. Medieval is dated, Rome is good, skip Empire, but play Napoleon if you like the setting. I'm thinking of installing Napoleon and playing that instead, because I like the setting. Is that going to be a huge step backwards from a gameplay or graphics perspective? What should I expect?
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Jun 3, 2013 18:50
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Napoleon has a lot related with Shogun 2 both graphics and mechanics wise, there are still a few ETW/MTW2 throw backs in the mechanics and UI but you'll get to grips with it easily.
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Jun 3, 2013 19:00
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Between this thread and Rome II looking absolutely amazing, I'm reinstalling Shogun II to tide me over. Thanks, jerks. Maybe this time I'll actually finish a campaign. The original Rome was my first Total War game in about 2007-ish or so, but through that game and every TW game since the pattern is the same; play for a long time, build a nice empire, and then slowly stop paying before meeting the victory conditions. Then I'll come back months later to find the save file still there, but every time I'd rather just start over than jump back in to an established game. My armies will know total victory one day. Eventually. Maybe.
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Jun 3, 2013 19:09
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canyoneer posted:I bought the Grandmaster pack thing a couple months ago for $30bux, which is a complete anthology of the Total War games. I tried playing Shogun 2 ROTS as babby's first game and got so confused and gave up. It's probably a good idea to get a grip on the shogun games by playing the vanilla shogun 2 campaign before you take a crack at rise or fall. I don't think rise is quite as solid as regular shogun 2 and fall is good but a very different experience. Vanilla shogun 2 campaigning is surprisingly fun, I wouldn't be afraid of sticking it on hard once you get the basics down.
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Jun 3, 2013 19:32
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^^^ Rise is way more polished than vanilla Shogun 2, there's just less in it.canyoneer posted:I bought the Grandmaster pack thing a couple months ago for $30bux, which is a complete anthology of the Total War games. I tried playing Shogun 2 ROTS as babby's first game and got so confused and gave up. I think starting with Shogun 2 was a bad idea, actually. All the older titles are going to be steps backwards. That said, you can get away with trying it again; Rome 1 is so much older than Shogun 2 that what's dated about it probably won't even be noticeable, it's all so different. Then you should just... progress though the entire series from there. They're all pretty good games so unless there's a period you particularly detest you might as well play them all, especially if you have all of the DLC and expansions. Medieval 2 isn't actually that dated, it just has some old systems, and Empire has a lot of flaws but it gets way too much hate; the scale of it is unlike any of the others, and there's a massive amount of variety, especially with all the DLC. I wouldn't pass up on either of them if I had the whole series; you'll still get a lot out of both of them. Unless you're massively strapped for time or something.
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Jun 3, 2013 19:36
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Lord Tywin posted:They're not exactly changing the formula up much though, it's more that they are refining it and making a working formula even better. I mean who other than the massive spergs really enjoy battles that feel absolutely meaningless since you have to beat up three more stacks to even make some progress? Fewer battles and sieges is the right way to go and it's really great that they are using the statistics they get from steam to enhance the game. Yeah I'm not against it at all - some games are really great at finding exactly what makes them fun and streamlining the experience around those things (my favorite example of this is the latest Xcom).
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Jun 3, 2013 19:41
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madmac posted:It's an impressive map, but I wouldn't put too much faith in it until we have an official source. Anyways, Jack Lusted apparently went on a posting streak over the weekend defending the army changes, with the answers consolidated into one thread. It's a bit huffy in places, and too long to just copy paste, but worth reading. I haven't been following this at all. Does someone have a link to a summary of the army changes? From reading that guy's 'debunk all the spergs' posts I'll be pretty happy not have to deal with the small armies and if they can find a way to make me actually want to perform offensive sieges I'd be really happy. Normally I skip offensive sieges because auto-resolve will almost always give me a better result than I can get myself, which is not true for open battles. Defensive sieges though I've always found fun especially when the armies are equal in size.
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Jun 3, 2013 19:42
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canyoneer posted:
I think Medieval II and everything after it are worth playing. And I'm somebody who's easily bored by old games. All of the games have their pluses and minuses, and what's a big minus for somebody else may be barely noticeable to you. I probably put more hours into Medieval II since Shogun 2 came out than any other TW game.
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Jun 3, 2013 21:25
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M2TW is such a simple looking game after playing stuff like Empire and Shogun 2, but I don't think that makes it a bad game. AI in total war games have never been good, but for me the setting of M2TW totally makes up for it. I just love the heck out of foot knights 
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Jun 3, 2013 21:35
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Agreed on MTW's setting being the most interesting but going back to manual unit reinforcement, diplomats and all the other crap they streamlined in STW2 makes MTW2 a total pain to play.
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Jun 3, 2013 21:56
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I think my favorite thing about MTW2 is that when you upgrade the armor on your units they actually look different in battle. It's the little things like that and the generals' speeches that keep me coming back even though dealing with the other stuff is a hassle.
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Jun 3, 2013 22:05
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Grizzwold posted:I think my favorite thing about MTW2 is that when you upgrade the armor on your units they actually look different in battle. It's the little things like that and the generals' speeches that keep me coming back even though dealing with the other stuff is a hassle. Yeah, I had a few units of +3 armoured spearmen in every actively fighting army I could just because of how loving awesome they looked.
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Jun 3, 2013 22:31
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Shogun 2 was my first TW game and I have yet to work up the energy for Rise or Fall because god drat that poo poo took me 100 hours on Normal. I also can't imagine playing it any other way because I'd never be able to pick anyone but Hattori. Playing Shogun 2 first is basically like starting the Hitman series with Blood Money though; everything else is bound to feel dated and slightly frustrating. madmac posted:I like that "80% of battles are auto-resolved" statistic, because it's so true, especially late game. Dozens of trivial battles, all sieges all the time and garrison spam in place of fighting enemy armies are some of the biggest long-standing issues in TW games and it's nice to see some attempt to address them. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 23:41
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I see the General's speeches the same way I view fast travel in Elder Scrolls games: really you just want to skip past it and get to the actual action, but if you can force yourself to be patient you can get a much better experience from it. The first few times, anyway.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:53
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I hope they bring back the custom Intro movies for each faction, instead of the identical generic movies with a few re-voiced lines that they ended up with in Medieval 2/Shogun 2. The stark differences between the Greek and Carthage intro's are way more compelling and interesting than 'CHOSOKABE LANDS HAVE ALWAYS PROVIDED FOR OUR PEOPLE - Rest of established script.' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DuyYIgIp4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8J1xxitkbw Really minor in the scheme of things, but still.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:29
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Alchenar posted:I see the General's speeches the same way I view fast travel in Elder Scrolls games: really you just want to skip past it and get to the actual action, but if you can force yourself to be patient you can get a much better experience from it. The first few times, anyway.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:33
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Shumagorath posted:The best general speeches in Shogun 2 were when you fought major clans. Your daimyo would burn them mercilessly. Yeah, which is why it's a shame that most of your battles tend to be against some minor that ended up becoming one of the top power players. Maybe that'll be alleviated in Rome 2 by having speeches that account for the general culture of the bad guys, instead of just lumping all minors into one speech pool, i.e. taunts that fit against one Gallic tribe fits against all of them. On a side note, has anyone here ever completed a campaign as the Western Roman Empire in Barbarian Invasion? Seems to be possibly the hardest start out of any Total War game. If I recall correctly you literally start the game with a deficit AND not enough soldiers to properly cover your borders.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:29
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Tomn posted:On a side note, has anyone here ever completed a campaign as the Western Roman Empire in Barbarian Invasion? Seems to be possibly the hardest start out of any Total War game. If I recall correctly you literally start the game with a deficit AND not enough soldiers to properly cover your borders. It's actually a little boring, since there are only two ways to play it, at least on the harder difficulties: cede all of your territory except for one heartland like Italy or Spain and build your way out just like in vanilla, or follow some perfect formula to the letter for the first 20 turns. I tried the latter and got bored. It doesn't help that the foederati, which are a significant portion of your starting forces, are next to useless for their cost so you have to rerecruit your entire army. Koramei fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 03:44
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If anyone's interested and hasn't been checking, Steam have dropped the price of Rome 2 to the same as Amazon (in the UK at least) so it's a good time to preorder if you don't want to wait for free delivery.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:36
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It's still $80AUD ($78USD) here in Australia 
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Jun 4, 2013 13:38
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So reading through that post, Lusted claims the AI in Shogun 2 gets no monetary bonuses on normal, which is great. But doesn't it ignore unit construction pre-reqs? I know I've seen the AI run around with units they don't have, nor have had, the buildings for. Not having to build unit producing structures is a pretty big monetary bonus.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:06
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Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:If anyone's interested and hasn't been checking, Steam have dropped the price of Rome 2 to the same as Amazon (in the UK at least) so it's a good time to preorder if you don't want to wait for free delivery. Has anyone else pre-ordered from Greenman? I did it ages ago but haven't received a CD Key. I'm guessing/hoping they send it out nearer the release date? Bit worried I've been lost in the system.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:10
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Cynic Jester posted:So reading through that post, Lusted claims the AI in Shogun 2 gets no monetary bonuses on normal, which is great. But doesn't it ignore unit construction pre-reqs? I know I've seen the AI run around with units they don't have, nor have had, the buildings for. Not having to build unit producing structures is a pretty big monetary bonus. I've never caught the AI doing this to the best of my knowledge. The only time I have seen an AI have a unit it couldn't build was ones that are part of that faction's starting army (Most factions get Yari Samurai or Katana Samurai to start despite not having the buildings, some get far more exotic ones). If the AI could ignore unit construction pre-reqs I would expect to see substantially different armies from one province minors instead of all Ashigaru since they had a Market or something.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:18
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Quick question, as a casual TW player... I've got about 47 hours logged in Shogun 2, maybe 30 hours in Napoleon, and 272 hours logged in Empire, which, obviously was the most fun for me personally... Is Empire really considered the lamest one of all? Or is that just a vocal minority? I've been playing a little bit of Shogun 2 the past few days, and I'm installing Medieval 2 for the first time (Picked it up in the package on Steam a while back). Will I enjoy it? Or should I not bother? Also, are there any mods that bring it up to date with graphics a bit?
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Jun 4, 2013 14:38
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shalcar posted:It's still $80AUD ($78USD) here in Australia Greenman Gaming was offering it for $59.95 with a 20% off coupon so I'd keep an eye on that. Also there's a goon selling Steam games for 15% off in the Buy/Sell forums.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:40
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