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Yeah but what do you think about him saying that Taiwan is over-saturated with foreign teachers to the point that someone coming for one year is going to end up working 6 days a week, doing large amounts of unpaid work, and making barely enough money to travel around a bit?
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Jun 2, 2013 19:32
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Oh, boy! It's that guy again. Some people are caricatures of themselves, seriously: (from http://kilikabeast.wordpress.com/2012/07/21/the-challenges-of-internet-dating-for-foreign-guys-in-taiwan/ ) quote:If you’re a foreign guy living in Taiwan or China, chances are you’ve done it: internet dating as “language exchange.” For many of you its your primary means of meeting women. It is for me at the moment. And I’ve had success! In the period of less than a year I’ve taken four girls from the internet into my bed. All of them were Taiwanese and their ages ranged from 19 to 44. One of the four was knockout hot and a Geisha in bed. Another amiable, sweet and about a 7 out of 10. One was of questionable sanity! I’m currently with a nice woman from Thailand I met on here. I would consider this a modest success. I certainly could do better.  Honestly the fewer people like this who come to Asia, the better. Is the job market in Taiwan bad? I dunno, I'm a student still. But I know I've been offered legitimate, non-ESL jobs already... but I'm also bilingual, have experience/internships, properly groomed, and I don't write a blog about "acquiring Taiwanese females". Unfortunately the only real way you can find out whether or not you can find work is to go ahead and try. Maybe take a visit with friends to a couple different Asian countries and see how it pans out? Do you have qualifications or experience? Do you even WANT to teach English? This reminds me of how I always read on the internet that people in Japan would refuse to sit next to non-Japanese people on the train. When my friends and I went to Japan, we never, ever had that issue. In fact the trains are so crowded there that I think you'd have to be pretty much a hobo to get to the point where Japanese people would refuse to sit next to you. The truth is some people who are social failures remain social failures regardless of geography. These people also have too much free time on the internet and post their bad opinions to anyone who will listen. Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt. hitension fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jun 2, 2013 |
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Jun 2, 2013 21:33
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Uhhh okay thanks for not really answering any of my questions at all (other than of course "Only you can see if the job market in Taiwan is poo poo for yourself young padawan"). Like yeah I get it the dude is a PUA weirdo but I'm not really interested in that. Basically for myself, I'm going into my last year of university and I'm planning on taking a couple (or maybe even all four) of the Mandarin courses they offer and then going to either Taiwan or China to hopefully become fluent and also travel a bit (something I've never really been able to do) and just have a good time. I'm not totally crazy about teaching but that seems like it is the only way in for people like me so I could put up with doing it. I'm trying to figure out whether Taiwan or the mainland would be best for this. I'm interested in hearing from people who have just recently gone through this, not "properly groomed" bilingual students who have already been offered non-ESL jobs. Millow fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jun 2, 2013 |
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Jun 2, 2013 22:17
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So you don't want to hear first-hand experiences from someone who is (over)qualified and you don't want to hear first-hand experiences from the bottom of the barrel internet sleazebag. What do you want, a thorough economic study of employment rates with cross-country analysis? Seriously though, there are other ways to get over to Asia than buxiban hell. Look into scholarships, Fulbright, Peace Corps, JET, Princeton in Asia, Teach for China, Huayu Scholarship, CSC scholarship, etc. You're not leaving for a year? Things can change a lot in 1 year and what's true now might not be true next year. Everyone I knew who graduated this year and wanted a job in Asia got one. I will say that there are a lot of people out there who genuinely want to teach ESL and/or already speak a second language, so one should keep in mind that there is competition for the "better" opportunities. Nobody can tell you whether or not you can get a job or what quality of job you can get without knowing your background, motivation, demeanor, etc. e: Maybe if I turn it around it'll make more sense: You mentioned you want to learn the language, who would you rather hire as a Chinese tutor? Candidate A, with experience and a sincere interest in teaching, or Candidate B, who is a native speaker with little interest in teaching, but thinks this is the only job (s)he can get. e2: Oh god, that video is so bad it's seriously hilarious. Dude above please don't take this as an attack on you because I don't know you (but if you think like that guy in the video then please do take it as an attack on you) "You can live on NTD 40k, well maybe not in Taipei but elsewhere, but you won't have any money left over" -- So much for all the local Taiwanese people whose average starting salaries are NTD 30k/month, including the ones living in Taipei. Oh wait, white people with no skills deserve to be paid 25-50% more than locals because... reasons? Unless we're in America, then immigrants should be paid less than locals, right? Office hours? gently caress that, who actually wants to help people learn English? They should just pay him to look white and stand around since that is about all he can do anyway. 20% tax rate?! What kind of socialist hellhole is this! Clearly foreigners in Taiwan should be exempt from paying taxes, considering that they are also exempt from using public transportation, police, national health care, and other government services. Don't these cram school owners know he's trying to have a ~*gap year experience*~? That means his employers should pay him to go to a new country every weekend. You definitely can't have a rich and fulfilling experience without jetsetting to a new country in Southeast Asia every weekend. If you're stuck in Taiwan then you'd have to (gasp) actually interact with your coworkers or other Taiwanese people in your city/neighborhood! Surely there is nothing meaningful to that. Now, there's a 0.01% chance you'll get laid, so there's some use to actually talking to locals but that's about it. Besides, Taiwanese girls barely even put out for white guys that nobody in America would touch with a ten foot pole anymore, better move to China which is still poor enough that some girls are still willing to take a shot on ANYthing that might get them a green card.  Actually, maybe it's a good thing that this clown exists, because he can convince others like him to stay at home. Man it keeps getting better: "scrapping to get by"  Do you mean "scraping by"? Good job English teacher...Thanks for saving all those "young guys* in their 20s" from going to Taiwan! *because women never travel hitension fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 2, 2013 22:34
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God dammit I already knew what video that was without having to go to next page or look at the link. As for alternatives, the more common ones are technical writing or working for a magazine or newspaper. YMMV depending on who you sign up with.
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Jun 3, 2013 00:27
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hitension posted:So you don't want to hear first-hand experiences from someone who is (over)qualified and you don't want to hear first-hand experiences from the bottom of the barrel internet sleazebag. What do you want, a thorough economic study of employment rates with cross-country analysis? I just want to hear from goons who have gone through the process recently, say with a major school like Hess, and if the kinds of things he's saying about Hess (6 days a week, little money, unpaid work) are true in their experience or not. quote:e: Maybe if I turn it around it'll make more sense: You mentioned you want to learn the language, who would you rather hire as a Chinese tutor? Candidate A, with experience and a sincere interest in teaching, or Candidate B, who is a native speaker with little interest in teaching, but thinks this is the only job (s)he can get. Well, I'm not a 6 year old who's parents are forcing him to go to private language school after class. I would likely hire whatever kind of tutor I could afford. But that's irrelevant anyway. quote:Dude above please don't take this as an attack on you because I don't know you (but if you think like that guy in the video then please do take it as an attack on you) I don't "think like him", I actually know nothing about what he's talking about in the video, that's why I'm asking questions in this thread. But I am lolling at how personal you seem to be taking this.
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Jun 3, 2013 00:50
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hitension posted:So you don't want to hear first-hand experiences from someone who is (over)qualified and you don't want to hear first-hand experiences from the bottom of the barrel internet sleazebag. What do you want, a thorough economic study of employment rates with cross-country analysis? I think he probably wants to hear from people who are, you know, in Taiwan. Millow, 6 day work weeks and lots of unpaid work are standard at buxiban. They're not as bad as you might think. You'll make about the same amount of money (or slightly less than) an entry-level full-time job in the USA. Taiwan is super duper cheap, though, so it balances out. There's time to travel if you make time for it. I think the job market isn't too bad, although I haven't applied for any jobs recently. Every 10 or 15 pages in this thread there's a lot of Hess-chat. You can go back and check out those.
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Jun 3, 2013 00:54
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Millow posted:Yeah but what do you think about him saying that Taiwan is over-saturated with foreign teachers to the point that someone coming for one year is going to end up working 6 days a week, doing large amounts of unpaid work, and making barely enough money to travel around a bit? Your first year will probably be doing this, yes. You might get lucky and find a job you don't have to work weekends your first year, but I always tell people to plan 6 days a week. Many schools also require you to keep "office hours" where you have nothing to do, but sit on your rear end as well. Though depending on the school what your allowed to do during that time varies. My current school doesn't care if I study at work so I usually pop out a book and work on my baking. There are other jobs, but it would be difficult to find one as soon as you got here. So unless you find one of those jobs before you arrive, or are feeling VERY lucky plan on teaching English your first year. After you have arrived you can start making contacts and look around for other jobs.
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Jun 3, 2013 00:56
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quadrophrenic posted:I think he probably wants to hear from people who are, you know, in Taiwan. Who says I'm not in Taiwan? Millow posted:Well, I'm not a 6 year old who's parents are forcing him to go to private language school after class. I would likely hire whatever kind of tutor I could afford. But that's irrelevant anyway. You would be OK with paying someone $20USD an hour to "put up with teaching" you Chinese? If your salary was less than $2000 USD a month? Parents pay big bucks to send their kids to English classes. When the foreign teacher doesn't care about his work that's just wasting other people's money, and why? Because every 22 year old with a bachelor's wants to travel to a new country every week? In what way is that reasonable? Go and have an experience, but don't just take without giving anything in return. That's all I'm saying. hitension fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 01:08
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The thing with a 6 day week is that you probably are still clocking in less than 40 hours of actual work during that time period. The shittiest day is probably Saturday itself since that's when students, young adults, businessmen, etc are actually available, none of who want to spend their whole Saturday in class. That means Saturday mornings and afternoons will have more classes than any other day of the week. But guess what? That means you get to be a terrible alcoholic every other night since your weekday shifts may not even begin until 3 or 4PM.
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Jun 3, 2013 01:34
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As the self appointed China goon hukou officer (I host for goons coming to HK and throw welcome parties/meets) let me say this: Hi Millow have you read the other threads relating to living overseas or ask me about being an expat? You really should take a read and see for yourself if moving to China is suitable. Wish you all the best fellow goon！ Millow posted:Basically for myself, I'm going into my last year of university and I'm planning on taking a couple (or maybe even all four) of the Mandarin courses they offer and then going to either Taiwan or China to hopefully become fluent and also travel a bit (something I've never really been able to do) and just have a good time. Remember that just because you move to Taiwan, you still have to find a job  It's not just “yay vacation during Chinese New Year time to fly” - more along the lines of "I don't know what to do in 20 days and I don't want to stay here so I will just burn my savings to go somewhere fun". If you stay in East Asia long enough it might be "gently caress it's temples and beaches again, arrg I want some quality bread and peanut butter cups, where's my mountain dew". You can also spend your off days hunkering down and studying China, but most people don't do that because it's not "a good time".Learning a language and going beyond beginner level is hard work. That means distancing your language comfort zone and rewiring your brain to move your mouth in a different way than what you are used to making really weird sounds. Language learning is also a really big time sink, so are you content/motivated/will you have the energy do kick your brain after a day of work? Studying a language and working at the same time is grueling, and doesn't fit the normal definition of "fun" for most people. Practicing the language also means mingling with locals or people with a different mindset/culture which requires more  Are you comfortable with sacrificing your social life with a new one? Or making some new friends all the time and repeating the same schtick?It's understandable that you want to travel! It's nice that you like to go out and see different places instead of blowing all your money on alcohol/anime/video games/hookers/girlfriends. But traveling on your own dime can be very expensive. Yes you can make sacrifices and go to many places on a shoe string budget but do you want to make the sacrifices? Is a standing 24 hour train ride from Beijing to Hong Kong ok? Or spend more money on a flight? Remember, studying Chinese probably means money on extra resources like books/apps/writing materials etc, so that's another dent on your disposable income. What kind of traveling do you want to do? Country hopping? International students based in Asia and treat it as a glorified vacation and go everywhere. Which is tolerated - but they don't gain much language skills. Some people come in here and teach and plan on exiting after a few years, which is also fine. What really matters is if you know what you are doing, plan on doing something and be sensible. quote:I'm not totally crazy about teaching but that seems like it is the only way in for people like me so I could put up with doing it. I'm trying to figure out whether Taiwan or the mainland would be best for this. I'm interested in hearing from people who have just recently gone through this, not "properly groomed" bilingual students who have already been offered non-ESL jobs. Bilingualism and fluency is a hazy definition anyway  My Mandarin is not superb but goons just like to switch off Chinese mode and make dumb internet jokes when we hang out. Even when they can write trade Contracts in Chinese or pass New HSK 6 (ie, decent level).
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Jun 3, 2013 01:51
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The biggest problem here is that so many people come here looking for a working vacation and an excuse to abuse their white privilege. No one wants to work with a douchebag who treats their job as a joke.
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Jun 3, 2013 02:48
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GoutPatrol posted:The biggest problem here is that so many people come here looking for a working vacation and an excuse to abuse their white privilege. No one wants to work with a douchebag who treats their job as a joke. This is the vicious cycle that places like Hess seem to create though. lovely unqualified teachers are hired, given a week of training, and set free to branches that have wildly different management styles and expectations. Most of them are treated like garbage because the schools know the teachers will last about a year and they want to get as much work from them as they possibly can in that time. The teachers feel like they're being treated poorly and have no interest in putting in extra effort or renewing their contracts, which just confirms what the schools thought originally. But you do have places that treat their teachers well, have reasonable expectations and pay for good work with a high salary. Though these places are less common, they certainly exist. I know people who made 100,000NT a month in their first year because they had more than just a basic bachelors degree and had functional Chinese before arriving. Shockingly, higher qualifications net higher pay grades but English mills like Hess don't have the infrastructure to even begin using teachers like them.
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Jun 3, 2013 03:07
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After 4 years in Taiwan I honestly think the hardest part of living here (long-term) is living with the bitterness toward other foreigners. 20-somethings who come here straight out of college to bang chicks and act like idiot frat boys. Guys who find girlfriends or come here with their girlfriends and cheat on them every chance they get. Dude's in their late 30's and 40's with no future trying to live in a fantasy world with some young girl who is desperate for a foreign boyfriend. They all make no serious effort to learn the language/culture, spend the majority of their paychecks at clubs/foreign friendly bars, and live in these little bubble worlds where their only friends are other foreigners and their (usually) Taiwanese girlfriends.
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Jun 3, 2013 03:43
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HappyHelmet posted:After 4 years in Taiwan I honestly think the hardest part of living here (long-term) is living with the bitterness toward other foreigners. 20-somethings who come here straight out of college to bang chicks and act like idiot frat boys. Guys who find girlfriends or come here with their girlfriends and cheat on them every chance they get. Dude's in their late 30's and 40's with no future trying to live in a fantasy world with some young girl who is desperate for a foreign boyfriend. Oddly enough I went on a rant like this last weekend. China and Taiwan are not so different in this regard. Is there also a return to high school clique mentality?
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Jun 3, 2013 04:48
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Oddly enough I went on a rant like this last weekend. China and Taiwan are not so different in this regard. Absolutely.
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Jun 3, 2013 04:57
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Oddly enough I went on a rant like this last weekend. China and Taiwan are not so different in this regard. Yeah, the "bubble worlds" I referred to are basically cliques of foreigners. They don't usually associate with other foreigners unless it's someones friend who just moved to Taiwan, and they definitely don't try to make friends with people who don't speak English well (unless it is a girl they are trying to bang).
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Jun 3, 2013 05:09
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I think that mentality is widely with young male ESL teachers, for whatever reason. Since I got out of that business and got a real, non-buxiban job, I've found people are a lot cooler and poo poo. The circle of friends I have now is probably half Chinese and half not, most of the foreigners speak decent to excellent Chinese (and the Chinese decent English), and everyone is basically a normal person. We even do things that aren't going out to bars, which is pretty awesome. I really hope Taipei has these kind of people as well because I may have to move there for work in the next year and I'd hate for it to somehow be a social-downgrade from the mainland... My only experience in Taiwan was when I was a student there, and foreign students live in the most secluded of bubble worlds, so I'm woefully ignorant about the place I lived for 6 months. 
Ailumao fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 06:42
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You should've gone with a program that came with a local roommate. That's good advice for every language program everywhere. Even if your own roommate is super goony and never wants to do anything (this happened to me), among your classmates' roommates there will at least be a few social jerks who get you out and seeing the local culture and doing things. Most likely this local culture will be boring, middle class conformity, but it'll be with hopefully interesting people in a foreign country!
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Jun 3, 2013 07:24
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I've been teaching myself Chinese lately and this past week said gently caress it and started talking to the owners of the shops I tend to eat at. After everyone realized I was not a ghost, the booze and betel nut flowed and now everyone waves and offers me beer when I walk home. It's awesome.
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Jun 3, 2013 07:28
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Bloodnose posted:You should've gone with a program that came with a local roommate. That's good advice for every language program everywhere. Even if your own roommate is super goony and never wants to do anything (this happened to me), among your classmates' roommates there will at least be a few social jerks who get you out and seeing the local culture and doing things. Yeah, I've since done this, but that wasn't really an option. It was a partnership between my US uni and Ming Chuan university. We "had" to stay in Ming Chuan's international dorms which were in a high-rise in the city center and came with HBO in every room. Our classes were also held in the same building but on a different floor. The first floor had a McDonald's and 7-11 too. Those dorms were essentially set up to create a bubble of international students. Needless to say, I did not learn much Chinese there. I learned much more the next time when we were dropped into dorms with Real Live Chinese people in the mainland the next year. My professor now makes all students stay in the much crappier but probably much better for learning Chinese dorms on the top of the hill by Shilin Night Market now, likely because we all just stuck around our hotel-dorm and talked to Germans and British students who were also "studying" abroad. Ailumao fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 07:55
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Bloodnose posted:You should've gone with a program that came with a local roommate. That's good advice for every language program everywhere. Even if your own roommate is super goony and never wants to do anything (this happened to me), among your classmates' roommates there will at least be a few social jerks who get you out and seeing the local culture and doing things. If you want to learn the language, get a scholarship and come over for a year of solid every-day-I'm-studyin' work. If you don't know Chinese you can learn while working in ESL (BlinkyZero went from no Chinese experience to having perfectly acceptable day-to-day basic Chinese in a year, which means he can handle average interactions), but there's a limit. I came over with four years of college Chinese and really haven't progressed much. I've picked up vocabulary and some idioms, but I'm no where near where I'd hoped to be after a full year overseas, and I dare say my written has fallen a lot, too. If you're working in an ESL environment you are going to be speaking English 90% of the time, either because your students require it or because your coworkers want to practice. If I could go back in time to undergrad land I would def. have taken advantage of more study abroad opportunities...now that I'm old I'm doing that with graduate school, which is double the price and stress. ESL can be awful or amazing, depending on a variety of things, chief among them if you actually enjoy teaching and want to improve your craft or just want a justifiable vacation.
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Jun 3, 2013 08:03
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I went from terrible Chinese when I moved here, to decent from a year at ShiDa while teaching. I got a girlfriend (and now wife) while there, and we use Chinese as our main language to communicate in. Her English is terrible still, it's just easier to use Chinese.
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Jun 3, 2013 13:55
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FearCotton posted:If you want to learn the language, get a scholarship Can you expand on this a little bit?
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Jun 3, 2013 14:21
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Millow posted:Can you expand on this a little bit? I know the school I went to had a pretty easy to get into scholarship program. The problem was staying in it as they expect you to spend a large amount of time at the school studying your rear end off, and you couldn't miss more than a few days of class either. I think it was expected that you would do double your class time in homework every day. Oh, and you needed to score like a 90% on all of your tests and what not. You WILL learn Chinese quickly doing that, but it all sounded pretty grueling to me.
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Jun 3, 2013 15:21
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HappyHelmet posted:I know the school I went to had a pretty easy to get into scholarship program. The problem was staying in it as they expect you to spend a large amount of time at the school studying your rear end off, and you couldn't miss more than a few days of class either. I think it was expected that you would do double your class time in homework every day. Oh, and you needed to score like a 90% on all of your tests and what not. I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous for a program to have standards. They are kind of putting the cash up for it, after all. Most people I know with actually impressive Chinese did that in either Taiwan or the Mainland. 3 months of that style of learning certainly kicked me up a few notches. I sort of wish I could have done it for a year. To answer the question about scholarships, the Chinese Language Megathread has some resources in the OP. The stuff about Taiwan may be a little outdated, but you can pretty easily get a scholarship from the ministry of education to study there iirc. Anyone with more up to date info is welcome to chime in. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8jkSSolABw People in Taipei should go to this cause I can't cause I am stuck in Pollutionburg
Ailumao fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 15:59
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fardoche posted:lokk, how was the Hess training? I'm coming to Taiwan this Summer and I'm not sure I should go the Hess way Mine was a shortened 6-day thing that involved about 8 hours or so per day of them teaching you the HESS way of doing everything. I had to prepare to teach a random section chosen from two 2-hour classes on both Wednesday and Friday. One Kindergarten and one regular cram school. I think in the regular training they might have you do two more demos(from what I heard from my coworkers). It wasn't too terrible but definitely wasn't a fun time either. Met a few cool people that added me on Facebook so I could see their tiny closet they are paying 12k+/month. As for the classes and the schedule they are better than my two 3-hour classes per day stint in Korea. Here I'm looking at around an 18-20 hr/week schedule, but people I know from training who got the mixed schedule are teaching up to 35 hours a week. I'd say it's a decent option, but from what I hear the branch you get really does make or break your time over here.
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Jun 3, 2013 20:38
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Magna Kaser posted:I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous for a program to have standards. They are kind of putting the cash up for it, after all. THIS. Also, as someone who was paid to go to China/Taiwan 4 times now, I am toying around with the idea of making a "How to get Chinese language study abroad scholarships" megapost. Probably not for this thread but for the Chinese language thread. Would there be interest in this Magna Kaser I might need your help since you're on FLAS right? That's one of the few programs I don't have any familiarity with.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:58
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Magna Kaser posted:I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous for a program to have standards. They are kind of putting the cash up for it, after all. Most people I know with actually impressive Chinese did that in either Taiwan or the Mainland. 3 months of that style of learning certainly kicked me up a few notches. I sort of wish I could have done it for a year. Oh, I didn't mean to say that I think it is ridiculous. I more trying to say that for me it was too much. If you have the desire to learn Chinese and work ethic to really commit yourself you should absolutely go into a program like that.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:27
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hitension posted:THIS. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I've got info on specific programs that are linked to grad programs, but not any general or government affiliated ones. More money info is always more good.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:25
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hitension posted:THIS.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:29
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Anyone interested in seeing Helloween in Taipei next week? Gamma Ray has decided they are too cool to come with, but Helloween puts on a hell of a show.
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Jun 4, 2013 10:49
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fake_roogle posted:Definitely interested in this. Yeah me too
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Jun 4, 2013 15:42
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Atlas Hugged posted:Anyone interested in seeing Helloween in Taipei next week? Gamma Ray has decided they are too cool to come with, but Helloween puts on a hell of a show. What day? My wife likes them.
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Jun 4, 2013 19:21
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I made that megapost on study abroad scholarships (with thanks to Magna Kaser for his input) http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3444259&pagenumber=36#post416142937
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Jun 5, 2013 00:13
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June 14th. It's a bit rushed, just over a week from now. I'm definitely going, alone or otherwise. Doors open at 19:00, set beings at 20:00. I don't think there's an opener. There wasn't when I saw Opeth at the same place.
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Jun 5, 2013 01:32
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I actually arrive on the 14th and will be with a man who might also be interested! How much are tickets? 
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Jun 5, 2013 07:48
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2500 at the door. 2000 ahead of time.
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Jun 5, 2013 08:02
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Seems okay! I'll chat to my buddy when he gets back from a business trip to see if he's in
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Jun 5, 2013 12:01
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Hey, is poker night still a thing? I just got paid and I'd kinda like to meet some of you and take your money.
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Jun 7, 2013 05:38
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