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Ihmemies posted:Jesus what's wrong with ASUS?! I'm considering buying a Haswell platform, but god drat they have a lot of models. For Z87 chipset alone they have: Here is some pictures and info: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6970/haswell-z87-motherboard-preview-50-motherboards-from-asus-gigabyte-asrock-msi-ecs-biostar-and-evga/2
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Jun 3, 2013 14:51
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HalloKitty posted:I doubt it's hitting 98 at normal voltages and a light 4.2GHz overclock. It's definitely actually hitting 98. I ran Windows Experience Index because it maxes CPU load (as far as I can tell). Core Temp said 98 plus or minus on all cores during the operation. I checked my CoolerMaster V8 cooler. The fan is running fine, and I sprayed it out with canned air. The cooler seems to be sagging a little, presumably just from its own weight and hanging on the board for so long. Because I'm dumb and don't fear electrocution I kept the case open and actually held the cooler tight against the board and the chip to make sure it was making contact. The temperature still hit 98. I have a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 lying around, should I try swapping that in and see if it fixes it? Any other suggestions? Ihmemies posted:Jesus what's wrong with ASUS?! I'm considering buying a Haswell platform, but god drat they have a lot of models. For Z87 chipset alone they have: Sabretooth. It looks the coolest. That's why I bought it, at least. 
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Jun 3, 2013 14:52
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Ihmemies posted:Jesus what's wrong with ASUS?! I'm considering buying a Haswell platform, but god drat they have a lot of models. For Z87 chipset alone they have: Good luck using Newegg comparator. Only lets you compare 5 at a time and when you do the HTML table is broken. Even when you can see the data there's not much different between the models on paper. I think a lot of the differences are not in official spec like the grade of the components.
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Jun 3, 2013 14:54
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Martello posted:It's definitely actually hitting 98. I ran Windows Experience Index because it maxes CPU load (as far as I can tell). Core Temp said 98 plus or minus on all cores during the operation. I checked my CoolerMaster V8 cooler. The fan is running fine, and I sprayed it out with canned air. The cooler seems to be sagging a little, presumably just from its own weight and hanging on the board for so long. Because I'm dumb and don't fear electrocution I kept the case open and actually held the cooler tight against the board and the chip to make sure it was making contact. The temperature still hit 98. I have a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 lying around, should I try swapping that in and see if it fixes it? Any other suggestions? It would certainly be worth it to swap in the Hyper 212. If you are still seeing weird temperatures, give us a screenshot (maybe in the overclocking thread?)
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Jun 3, 2013 15:32
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beejay posted:It would certainly be worth it to swap in the Hyper 212. If you are still seeing weird temperatures, give us a screenshot (maybe in the overclocking thread?) Ooh, didn't see that thread. Sorry, I'll post over there once I install the Hyper when I get home from work today.
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Jun 3, 2013 15:35
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I don't think there was any doubt but it looks like haswell is still using what looks like the same TIM setup as IVB. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286340-4770k-4670K-IHS-Removals As of now no data on thermal changes between factory config and post delid/direct die.
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Jun 3, 2013 16:22
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Shaocaholica posted:I don't think there was any doubt but it looks like haswell is still using what looks like the same TIM setup as IVB.  It'll be nice to see results on how much of a difference it makes.
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Jun 3, 2013 16:39
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Martello posted:Sabretooth. It looks the coolest. That's why I bought it, at least. I thought it looked the siliest, with that fan and all  I've always tried to buy most plain-looking products, since probably most of the effort was saved to make a quality product instead of a flashy looking one.Shaocaholica posted:Good luck using Newegg comparator. Only lets you compare 5 at a time and when you do the HTML table is broken. Even when you can see the data there's not much different between the models on paper. I think a lot of the differences are not in official spec like the grade of the components. I don't really need much features, two sata ports and a bunch of usb ports is enough. Preferrably without any useless features like PCI or IDE ports. The 2000's called and wanted their legacy features back! I've bought at least three Deluxe mobos from Asus and never had any problems with them. My current one is 4½ years old and still working. Pro seems to be the first moden model, so maybe I'll buy that and save a few bucks. Pity they all have only four memory slots though: I need to throw away my 6x2GB sticks and buy 2x8GB to have room for a memory upgrade.
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Jun 3, 2013 16:51
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Shaocaholica posted:I don't think there was any doubt but it looks like haswell is still using what looks like the same TIM setup as IVB.  I wonder how long it's going to take before custom retention brackets start popping up everywhere. I guess it depends on whether simply replacing the TIM makes a significant difference like Ivybridge vs. direct-die cooling. edit: Yeah, that's a good point. You're already paying more for a chip with less features (other than unlocked multiplier), and then they've made it more difficult to get your money's worth out of a chip that's ostensibly meant for overclocking. VVV future ghost fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 17:02
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I think it's quite genius/douchey that intel is using tim under the ihs. As long as the CPUs are still within an acceptable thermal envelope, there's no need to do what would amount to helping overclockers. It also basically makes voiding your warranty the cost of admission for -real- over clocking. Just like in the good old days only now it's glaringly detectable.
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Jun 3, 2013 17:20
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From the depths of the internet and not very scientific. Supposidly thats on an Antec Kuhler H2O 620 closed loop cooler (120mm x 1). No idea if its direct die and what TIM is being used but you can bet its top shelf and more likely direct die. Edit: quick take aways 1)Haswell is still hotter than IVB delidded 2)Possible Haswell needs slightly more volts for the same freq 3)Delidding Haswell still nets big thermal gains a la IVB Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 18:17
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Shaocaholica posted:I think it's quite genius/douchey that intel is using tim under the ihs. As long as the CPUs are still within an acceptable thermal envelope, there's no need to do what would amount to helping overclockers. It also basically makes voiding your warranty the cost of admission for -real- over clocking. Just like in the good old days only now it's glaringly detectable. Most importantly it means the CPUs cost less to manufacture.
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Jun 3, 2013 18:19
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craig588 posted:Most importantly it means the CPUs cost less to manufacture. Is soldering really that expensive? AMD does it on their budget CPUs right? The ones that are sub $100?
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Jun 3, 2013 18:24
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Ihmemies posted:Jesus what's wrong with ASUS?! I'm considering buying a Haswell platform, but god drat they have a lot of models. For Z87 chipset alone they have:  Go for Pro or better. Here's more detailed info: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039930755#post1039930755 Mayne fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 18:31
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Shaocaholica posted:From the depths of the internet and not very scientific. Now I just need the balls to take a hammer and a block of wood to my new CPU .
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Jun 3, 2013 18:50
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Nostrum posted:Now I just need the balls to take a hammer and a block of wood to my new CPU The traditional razor method still works fine. I would recommend that over hammer+vise considering the small caps on the surface of Haswell. Just use a marker and mark your razor at a preset depth so you know not to go that far to minimize risk of hitting the caps.
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Jun 3, 2013 18:54
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I'm convinced this is market chicanery from Intel, in the same vein as fusing off VT-d and TSX. There is no work around to the inherent "high" voltage inefficiency of Haswell, though its IPC improvements negate that somewhat. That said, using el cheapo goo adds 5-10c at higher voltages. This enforces a clock wall of 4.5 ghz at ~1.25 volts on the majority of i7ks in the wild. Basically, I am tin foiling here: Intel saves money by using goo and loses nothing by capping the performance potential of K chips. OCing adds life to CPUs e.g. my soon-to-be-replaced Nehalem i5 is easy to take from 2.8 ghz stock to 4.0 ghz--this make it rival SB i5 2500k in cinebench (though it does get toasty, it's nothing a good air cooler can't handle)--and will take a 25-35% increase at near default voltage. Architecturally that will never happen with Haswell, but going cheap does hurt. Is solder too much to ask for a $300-$350 flagship CPU? There is 0% chance I am going to delid my new i7 and it just sucks that it could have been slightly more fun of a chip.
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Jun 3, 2013 23:04
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Where the are the mobile processor reviews?
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Jun 3, 2013 23:06
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Tab8715 posted:Where the are the mobile processor reviews? i7-4700MQ has not been reviewed (though its graphics performance has on Anand), but the more interesting (mobile wise) ULV Haswell i5s and i3s have not been released yet. All that you can buy ATM are monsters like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152395
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Jun 3, 2013 23:11
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Tab8715 posted:Where the are the mobile processor reviews? *Where are the sodding Haswell laptops
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Jun 3, 2013 23:14
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LooKMaN posted:
So it seems I "only" got the Deluxe mobo instead of the Deluxe Dual because that was the highest one Newegg had two nights ago. I like how they're talking about "Dual Intelligent Processors", but "Dual" as part of the product name means something else. This is not confusing at all, nosiree. Oh well, it's not like I really needed Thunderbolt on a PC right now, and there's always the next upgrade. They're really too clever for their own good with those product names and descriptions.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:53
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Is there currently still a problem with the first-gen Haswell motherboards coming out that Intel has made manufacturers sign a waiver for? Something to do with USB 3.0, correct?
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Jun 4, 2013 01:05
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flavor posted:So it seems I "only" got the Deluxe mobo instead of the Deluxe Dual because that was the highest one Newegg had two nights ago. I like how they're talking about "Dual Intelligent Processors", but "Dual" as part of the product name means something else. This is not confusing at all, nosiree. Oh well, it's not like I really needed Thunderbolt on a PC right now, and there's always the next upgrade. I find that consistently overspending on motherboards has never let me down when it comes to getting all the features I want. And done up the rear price-wise. Take that as you will.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:11
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Agreed posted:I find that consistently overspending on motherboards has never let me down when it comes to getting all the features I want. And done up the rear price-wise. Take that as you will. I did get the most expensive ASUS one Newegg had, so I don't know what to say. I guess next time I'll go beyond Newegg and Amazon, which means different uncertainties. I had checked out the features, and it's not such a big deal. Thunderbolt is more of a "nice to have" thing for me on a PC, realistically I won't need it at all before the next upgrade.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:14
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It's odd that Gigabyte sells a $230 motherboard without built in wifi--not even just B/G/N. I assumed that now a days that was a rather pedestrian feature. Even ASrock charges an extra $20-$40 for its inclusion (Extreme6 vs. Extreme6 AC). I went with the Asus "Pro," though I wish I could have afforded the deluxe if only for future "who knows" usage. Asus's firmware is always step ahead of everyone else. My only concern is that the head spreaders mounted on the back of the board will interfere with the massive plate included in the Silverstone cooler I bought. Should be fun. Yudo fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 02:33
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PUBLIC TOILET posted:Is there currently still a problem with the first-gen Haswell motherboards coming out that Intel has made manufacturers sign a waiver for? Something to do with USB 3.0, correct? Yeah; the new chips won't start shipping out to motherboard manufacturers until the old chips are gone, so don't expect the problem to be fixed until Fall. (Source)
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Jun 4, 2013 02:33
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If Asus is still making a Sabertooth board when I next build, that'll be what I buy. Just a breeze to use and install, hardly even need to think about static protection at all thanks to the silly thermal jacket (excuse me, ARMOR!). Same goes for the degree of care necessary with tools and all that, I remember I very nearly hosed up a motherboard once when I ran a screwdriver across a rather important series of traces. Luckily didn't sever them, but the initial impact did make a tiny scratch on the silicon of the board. That's not a worry when you've got a big Lego brick protecting your mobo. And they get power delivery and component quality right on them, too. Overkill for sure, but I only build a computer like once every four or five years, break it down and the price difference is like $15/year compared to the non-Sabertooth model I'd have bought for features instead. Big deal. Also haven't seen any BIOSes... er, UEFIs, I guess, that can compete with theirs for ease of use AND control all in one. In particular I find ASrock's to be fiddly, MSI's to be weird, and Gigabyte didn't even try when I was building my system and still had an old, no-mouse BIOS. Come on, get in the game. I guess they've fixed that by now. Yudo posted:It's odd that Gigabyte sells a $230 motherboard without built in wifi--not even just B/G/N. I assumed that now a days that was a rather pedestrian feature. Even ASrock charges an extra $20-$40 for its inclusion (Extreme6 vs. Extreme6 AC). Did you check the compatibility list for the cooler? Usually high end cooling setups will have useful info on motherboard compatibility. I know Noctua keeps an updated motherboard and RAM compatibility list on their website...
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Jun 4, 2013 03:42
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LooKMaN posted:
Thanks for posting that. My attempt to get the -A from microcenter with the cpu this morning was thwarted, so I don't know when I'll get a hold of it, but since I have sound and video cards, I see no reason to get anything above the -C.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:30
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dpbjinc posted:Yeah; the new chips won't start shipping out to motherboard manufacturers until the old chips are gone, so don't expect the problem to be fixed until Fall. (Source) Let's play spot the dead or dying product/mark! quote:
Not quite as many as I expected.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:11
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You forgot thunder bolt.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:15
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Got my 4770k running at 4.3 GHz on 1.15v stable runniing Aida64 right now, which is as far as my tired brain is going tonight. Maximum temps are right around 69 C. Looks like delidding is in my future.
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Jun 4, 2013 06:13
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2013 06:31
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sincx posted:drat. I haven't had to worry about crushing CPU cores since my T-Bird 1.4 GHz. Back to the future. Nah, delidding just involves replacing the intel paste with your own. You still use the lid. Somehow this makes about 10°c difference. Playing 'don't crush your core' only gives an additional 2-3°c
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Jun 4, 2013 06:56
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Charun posted:Nah, delidding just involves replacing the intel paste with your own. You still use the lid. Somehow this makes about 10°c difference. Playing 'don't crush your core' only gives an additional 2-3°c Its ~10C at stock speed. If you OC, its more like 20-25C.
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Jun 4, 2013 15:45
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Shaocaholica posted:Its ~10C at stock speed. If you OC, its more like 20-25C. That's a fairly extraordinary claim, could I get a link to check into that myself? 20ºC through nothing but a better application of slightly higher quality TIM is a shitload of difference and I have a hard time accepting at face value that Intel fucks up the TIM under the heat spreader that badly. That's, like, 12-year-old building their first computer and not really understanding the importance of how to mount the heatsink properly bad. Source?
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Jun 4, 2013 15:55
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davebo posted:Thanks for posting that. My attempt to get the -A from microcenter with the cpu this morning was thwarted, so I don't know when I'll get a hold of it, but since I have sound and video cards, I see no reason to get anything above the -C. Honestly I'd only go as low as the Plus, since that's the lowest tier that gives you Intel ethernet. The Pro tacks on wi-fi, "better" audio, and I guess an extra few USB 3.0 & SATA 3 ports (though in the latter I guess it's a Marvell controller or something).
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Jun 4, 2013 15:57
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Agreed posted:That's a fairly extraordinary claim, could I get a link to check into that myself? 20ºC through nothing but a better application of slightly higher quality TIM is a shitload of difference and I have a hard time accepting at face value that Intel fucks up the TIM under the heat spreader that badly. That's, like, 12-year-old building their first computer and not really understanding the importance of how to mount the heatsink properly bad. Source? Its not just the TIM, the stock TIM is actually not that bad. Its the way the IHS is attached to the package that prevents ideal pressure on the die from the IHS. When you delid, the glue that holds the IHS to the package is removed in the process which is also the culprit for shimming the IHS from the die. Thats the main reason for the thermal gains, not the actual TIM although delidding necessitates the removal of the stock TIM so people jump to that conclusion. There's almost too much information here but its a great read when you have the time: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261855 This about sums it up:  The guy also goes direct die but that data isn't in the above chart. He gained about 1C going direct die from his lapped IHS. I suspect you'd get a few more degrees than him if you don't lap anything. Also read the linked thread thats titled "Proof that the benefit from Delidding is entirely due to reducing the CPU-to-IHS gap" Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 16:01
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That... is really something. I don't have time to parse all of it, but if the table is accurate, fuuuck are they screwing around with these things. Might as well just tell overclockers that they don't HAVE a warranty, at least if they want to get Sandy Bridge level GHz out of newer, non-soldered processors.
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Jun 4, 2013 16:08
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Agreed posted:That... is really something. I don't have time to parse all of it, but if the table is accurate, fuuuck are they screwing around with these things. Might as well just tell overclockers that they don't HAVE a warranty, at least if they want to get Sandy Bridge level GHz out of newer, non-soldered processors. I haven't seriously overclocked since PIIIs back in college. gently caress kids these days and their warranties 
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Jun 4, 2013 16:11
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movax posted:Honestly I'd only go as low as the Plus, since that's the lowest tier that gives you Intel ethernet. The Pro tacks on wi-fi, "better" audio, and I guess an extra few USB 3.0 & SATA 3 ports (though in the latter I guess it's a Marvell controller or something). Well I ended up with the -C since that's what microcenter had in stock this morning, but out of curiosity, would there have been any benefit to the intel ethernet for someone at a house with no other networked computers and only 20mbps comcast cable?
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Jun 4, 2013 16:13
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