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Willem Dafoe was a pretty great Norman Osborne. I'm still kind of upset that we'll likely never see Nicolas Cage's Norman Osborne, that would have been magical.
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Jun 5, 2013 06:17
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Coffee And Pie posted:Willem Dafoe was a pretty great Norman Osborne. I'm still kind of upset that we'll likely never see Nicolas Cage's Norman Osborne, that would have been magical. In a just universe Nic Cage would play the Demogoblin and it would be most glorious.
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Jun 5, 2013 06:21
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schwenz posted:I guess everyone that reads the comic takes something different from them. To me, Garfield's Peter Parker, seemed a lot more like I envisioned him than Mcguires. I prefer TASM to Raimi's. it seems way more grounded to me, and I'm excited for two. I'm very much in this camp too, but I love Ultimate Spider-Man and think it's a far better/more cohesive/easier/more fun story than 99.9% of Spider-Man stories told anywhere else, and the movie really nailed that Peter.
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Jun 5, 2013 07:15
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Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin was legitimately chilling and totally underrated.
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Jun 5, 2013 07:20
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin was legitimately chilling and totally underrated. He's one of the few good things about the Raimi films. My impression of ASM was that it passed in one ear and out the other -- nothing in the film really stuck with me. This works both ways, since there's nothing egregiously awful in it either, it's just a bunch of likeable and believable characters in an otherwise unimpressive script -- but they could have done so much more with, say, humanizing the Lizard and making his descent into insanity more gradual instead of "surrogate father figure with pathos" suddenly turning into "insane monster wants to turn everyone else into lizards too!" I hope this is just a side effect of being yet another origin story and future entries in the series will be more flexible. EDIT: Granted, the Raimi films are just as sudden about their villains' transformations, but everything in those films is so dramatically heightened and silly that it doesn't feel as out of place there.
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Jun 5, 2013 12:06
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PaganGoatPants posted:Off-topic but can anyone explain to me why some people disliked the first TASM movie? I liked it and liked Andrew Garfield's portrayal. The action felt more "spidery" if that even means anything - I saw more creative fight moves. The plot is straight-forward too. Not so much here but other film forums are full of Raimi fans who view the notion that any post-Raimi Spider-Man film being an improvement even in some minor aspect or area as some kind of heresy. Dude's got a fanbase of rabid weirdos who think the guy's Film Jesus or some poo poo. Personally, I was pretty lukewarm on it but still preferred it to the earlier ones, which suffered horrendously from miscasting.
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Jun 5, 2013 12:37
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You've also got a huge contingent of people who haven't actually bothered to re-watch the Raimi films since 2006 and haven't realized how dated they've become, instead coasting on the nostalgia factor and warped memories because the Raimi flicks were very above-average for their time. On the last page alone we have someone who praised Tobey MacGuire's Spider-man for being "smart-mouthed." loving really? Dude made two jokes in three movies.
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Jun 5, 2013 12:41
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mind the walrus posted:You've also got a huge contingent of people who haven't actually bothered to re-watch the Raimi films since 2006 and haven't realized how dated they've become, instead coasting on the nostalgia factor and warped memories because the Raimi flicks were very above-average for their time. Likewise, someone just called Dafoe's Goblin "chilling". Don't get me wrong, he's really good in the role, but he's chewing the scenery as an absolute cartoon character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib1LAo3_-Kk It's hard to believe that that scene actually appears in a theatrically released blockbuster movie, nevermind that someone might describe the depiction of the character contained therein as chilling.
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Jun 5, 2013 12:56
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"But it totally was when I was 8  "I also hate in hindsight how they gave Doc Ock the Lizard's whole "evil inner alter-ego" schtick. I get why they gave it to him, but in the end all it really did was make ASM's Lizard even weaker than he already was.
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Jun 5, 2013 13:07
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mind the walrus posted:"But it totally was when I was 8 You mean they gave Ock, Lizards evil inner alter-ego. In the comics, Ock was always an rear end in a top hat before and after the accident. Lizard is a good guy when he is not The Lizard. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 13:10
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That's exactly what I said. Yes. I wasn't aware my syntax was so bad it needed correcting.
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Jun 5, 2013 13:13
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The Raimi movies are great because they are campy cartoons and the whole "anyone who liked those movies is wrong" thing around here is really boring. I found them funnier than ASM even though there were fewer Spider-man Tells Jokes moments. I liked ASM too! I liked it more once The Lizard was rampaging because it felt just like the tone of the Raimi movies and all the cornball Rhino and Electro stuff in ASM2 looks like it will follow that tone. "Good for their time" is an unhelpful description as if all movies in the early 2000s were terrible. Even if most superhero movies of the time were bad people legitimately liked these movies for reasons beyond "well everything else is worse I guess."
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Jun 5, 2013 14:13
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Oh so it's time for the blowback to the blowback to the whole "ASM sucks cause the Raimi movies rocked"?
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Jun 5, 2013 14:17
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mind the walrus posted:Oh so it's time for the blowback to the blowback to the whole "ASM sucks cause the Raimi movies rocked"? "Dinosaurs rule, I'm going to turn all of NYC into dinosaurs" is a great plot for a villain. Chilling, even. I don't want be a dinosaur so I'm glad Spider-man punched him out. A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 14:21
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TASM was really bad. Annoying and stupid protagonist, dull and clichéd antagonist, bad CGI but the fights were well choreographed. The Raimi films were bad too barring a fair bit of number 2 and bits of number 1. Number 2 did a much much much better job of the whole "who am I?" theme which I'm pretty sure TASM was going for as you can see in the last school sequence. Hopefully movies like The Avengers, IM3 and maybe Man of Steel (  ) are going to set a new standard that we will see reflected in TASM2.
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Jun 5, 2013 14:36
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I too hope ASM2 can have villains as compelling and original as the harmless cannon fodder of Avengers. Peter Parker is definitely a stupid guy, all he makes are Web Guns while Tony Stark is making Bomb Guns, I hope Spider-man shoots bombs out his wrists in the new movie. A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 14:38
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mind the walrus posted:You've also got a huge contingent of people who haven't actually bothered to re-watch the Raimi films since 2006 and haven't realized how dated they've become, instead coasting on the nostalgia factor and warped memories because the Raimi flicks were very above-average for their time. I've watched them a bunch of times and I think they're all better than TASM. Even Spider-Man 3! And Spider-Man 3 STINKS HARD in some parts! I still think Spider-Man 2 is still one of the better superhero movies out there. Some people dont like the more heightened-stylized tone of those movies, but Raimi still wielded and played around with it better than Webb did in TASM. I dont think TASM sucks because the Raimi movies rocked, I think it sucked because its script is really bad. bobkatt013 posted:I can also see that promising coming back to bite him in the rear end. Well him breaking the promise and the guilt that might entail. Maybe, but the movie ends with "check it out, he did the right thing!". It does not communicate that it might be a bad idea.
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Jun 5, 2013 14:42
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If Thanos ends up even half as horrifying as Venom's legendary depiction in Spider-Man 3, I will stand up and cheer in the theater. Raimi is a loving genius.
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Jun 5, 2013 14:45
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Yannick_B posted:Maybe, but the movie ends with "check it out, he did the right thing!". It does not communicate that it might be a bad idea. You can see know foreboding foreshadowing in him breaking a promise to stay with a character who is most famous for dying?
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Jun 5, 2013 14:48
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Yannick_B posted:
It is Gwen Stacy. It is going to come back to bite him in the rear end.
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Jun 5, 2013 14:48
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I hope Gwen lives through all of these movies and they grow old and have monster babies together.
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Jun 5, 2013 14:51
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Surlaw posted:I hope Gwen lives through all of these movies and they grow old and have monster babies together. They won't since Peter's spider-sperm gives people cancer. I am also pretty sure Emma Stone said the main reason she took the role was Gwen's fate. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 14:56
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bobkatt013 posted:They won't since Peter's spider-sperm gives people cancer. I am also pretty sure Emma Stone said the main reason she took the role was Gwen's fate.
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Jun 5, 2013 15:31
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One of the thing that's annoying about comic book movies in general is that all this stuff is already predetermined. We know how a character is going to end up just because they are that character. Like in the original run of Spiderman, Gwen Stacy wasn't going to die and Peter wasn't going to end up with Mary Jane but things changed due to fan reaction and we ended up in a different place than was expected. That just can't happen in most Superhero films. It's a genre that kind of relies on the telling of the story to be interesting more than the story itself.
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Jun 5, 2013 15:36
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Surlaw posted:I too hope ASM2 can have villains as compelling and original as the harmless cannon fodder of Avengers. There was the time his clone, Ben Reilly, made Impact Webbing. Basically they were balls of webbing that exploded on contact and engulfed the person in webs. He also made stingers that would be fired and disable who he was going after.
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Jun 5, 2013 15:38
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I still want TASM 2 to introduce MJ and for her to get sort of close to Peter, then in TASM 3 Goblin will have a girl up on the bridge, call out for Spider-man to "witness his girlfriend's death" or something, and then drop MJ to her demise, leaving Peter and Gwen together FOREVER. FOREVER.
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Jun 5, 2013 17:00
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The only Spider Man movie I've liked all the way through was Spider Man 2, and ASM was probably the one I enjoyed the least out of all four. That being said, the Paul Giamatti Rhino pics are enough to give me hope that this will keep up the trend of "the second one's good." Although the killing Gwen Stacy thing is a bad sign to me, as the grim, joyless tone of ASM was my least favorite thing about it. I like my Spider-Man to be fun, dammit.
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Jun 5, 2013 17:17
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axleblaze posted:You can see know foreboding foreshadowing in him breaking a promise to stay with a character who is most famous for dying? Yeah--but me knowing about it from the comics doesnt mean anything. They might do it, they might not. The idea that not living up to the promise might bite him in the rear end is simply not brought up in the movie. The movie ends telling us he's doing something right there is no hinting otherwise.
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Jun 5, 2013 17:55
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:The only Spider Man movie I've liked all the way through was Spider Man 2, and ASM was probably the one I enjoyed the least out of all four. That being said, the Paul Giamatti Rhino pics are enough to give me hope that this will keep up the trend of "the second one's good." Really? "grim" and "joyless"? I mean, it wasn't flat out goofy like the Raimi movies, but it's still pretty fun. I mean, it didn't end on a sad dark funeral, but happy smiley Peter and Gwen. Also, even though Emma Stone looks like she was torn out of the 1960's books, pretty much everything else about the movies hems a lot closer to the Ultimate books, and I'd love to see them keep Gwen alive and have her, Peter and MJ be friendly (with a little tension between the ladies, for good measure). Bedshaped posted:TASM was really bad. Annoying and stupid protagonist, dull and clichéd antagonist, bad CGI but the fights were well choreographed. The Raimi films were bad too barring a fair bit of number 2 and bits of number 1. Number 2 did a much much much better job of the whole "who am I?" theme which I'm pretty sure TASM was going for as you can see in the last school sequence. Fixed this for you. Last thing that I want is to see ASM2 end up like anything Marvel Studios has put out.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:52
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In Ultimates Gwen was killed by Carnage but she came back.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:54
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bobkatt013 posted:In Ultimates Gwen was killed by Carnage but she came back. And it was pretty widely acknowledged as a big mistake. I think even BMB said that he regretted it. USM has had a lot of big emotional moments, but that one fell flat compared to most of them.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:55
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Yoshifan823 posted:Really? "grim" and "joyless"? I mean, it wasn't flat out goofy like the Raimi movies, but it's still pretty fun. I mean, it didn't end on a sad dark funeral, but happy smiley Peter and Gwen. I dunno, it felt like it was goin' hard for that Batman Begins dollar, from the intensely dark color scheme to the constant "my dead parents" brooding. I also just thought it was intensely boring. I preferred the Raimi goofiness.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:55
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Ah, poo poo. Are we back to having to like either ASM or the Raimi films? Is it OK if liked Spiderman 1, loved 2 and thought ASM was probably the best of all four, or do we have to choose up sides here?
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Jun 5, 2013 20:02
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BiggerBoat posted:Ah, poo poo. Are we back to having to like either ASM or the Raimi films? Is it OK if liked Spiderman 1, loved 2 and thought ASM was probably the best of all four, or do we have to choose up sides here? Like I said, there are plenty of flaws with the Raimi flicks too, so I'm hoping the pattern is less "Raimi movies good, Webb movies bad" and more "first entry is really shaky, second entry is legitimately good." Although, that being said, yeah I think ASM is the worst of the four. My ranking is something like: Spider-Man 2: A Spider-Man 1: B- Spider-Man 3: C- Amazing Spider Man: D Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 20:05
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The best thing about the Raime movies is a deleted scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzO_iNWVDbM Actually, I will take every scene with JJJ in it.
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Jun 5, 2013 20:08
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I like Spider-man 3 of the Raimi movies the best. What was -good- about the first two has kind of dulled or been topped over time, but the hilariously ridiculous moments in 3 have only been close-to-matched since. I still can't believe a sizable group of people still think the movie was saying Peter was depicted as "cool" in 3 when he got the symbiote and walking down the street/dancing. Did they not see the reaction shots or what?
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Jun 5, 2013 20:38
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Darko posted:I like Spider-man 3 of the Raimi movies the best. What was -good- about the first two has kind of dulled or been topped over time, but the hilariously ridiculous moments in 3 have only been close-to-matched since. I'm not going to say Spider-Man 3 was good (because it wasn't), but I too am perpetually confused by people's dislike of Emo Peter. That was one of the few parts of the movie that was legitimately good and funny, because that's exactly what a big ol' nerd going "dark" would look like. edit: And I'll go on record that one of the things that didn't work for ASM was Peter not really being a nerd. He was really smart and poo poo, yeah, but he was like....skateboarding around getting bitched at by teachers. Peter Parker is a teacher's pet, dammit. I know what people mean when they say they felt focus-grouped to death by that movie. It was like they were okay with Peter being a nerd, on the condition that he be the chillest nerd possible. On the other hand, half the people in the audience of the Raimi movies probably would have picked on Maguire's Peter in real life. Billy Idle fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 20:40
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Billy Idle posted:I'm not going to say Spider-Man 3 was good (because it wasn't), but I too am perpetually confused by people's dislike of Emo Peter. That was one of the few parts of the movie that was legitimately good and funny, because that's exactly what a big ol' nerd going "dark" would look like. Yeah, Spider-Man 3 definitely had its fair share of legitimate problems (the script was a total mess, and I'll forever look at that omelette-making musical montage and wonder "what the hell?"), but that whole sequence, complete with the jazzed-up Spider Man theme, is an absolute goddamn riot and maybe one of my favorite moments in any superhero movie, every bit the equal of the Burt Bacharach montage in part 2. I think the thing that's come closest to accomplishing the same vibe is the "Star Spangled Man" musical number in Captain America.
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Jun 5, 2013 20:55
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Billy Idle posted:edit: And I'll go on record that one of the things that didn't work for ASM was Peter not really being a nerd. He was really smart and poo poo, yeah, but he was like....skateboarding around getting bitched at by teachers. Peter Parker is a teacher's pet, dammit. I know what people mean when they say they felt focus-grouped to death by that movie. It was like they were okay with Peter being a nerd, on the condition that he be the chillest nerd possible. On the other hand, half the people in the audience of the Raimi movies probably would have picked on Maguire's Peter in real life. Why does this matter, though? He's still getting picked on, he's still unpopular, and had a bully on his rear end, what does it matter if he's a slacker or a teachers pet? (and he obviously still gets poo poo done, considering he's #2 in his class) Again, this is just the influence of Ultimate Spider-Man.
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Jun 5, 2013 20:57
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Billy Idle posted:edit: And I'll go on record that one of the things that didn't work for ASM was Peter not really being a nerd. He was really smart and poo poo, yeah, but he was like....skateboarding around getting bitched at by teachers. Peter Parker is a teacher's pet, dammit. I know what people mean when they say they felt focus-grouped to death by that movie. It was like they were okay with Peter being a nerd, on the condition that he be the chillest nerd possible. On the other hand, half the people in the audience of the Raimi movies probably would have picked on Maguire's Peter in real life. Ultimate Spider-Man's Peter Parker, while not a skate-boarding enthusiast, is pretty much the Parker we got in the movie. Teachers bitch at him constantly for his attendance (yet know he's smart as hell). He's dating one of the hottest girls in the school. He's not really a social pariah at all and he's really only a pushover when it comes to Flash Thompson, and even that doesn't last for very long. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 21:10
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