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Heart Attacks posted:I didn't say there was anything wrong with the picture. I was right there on the creepy Lover charms, but this is just taking it a little far. I doubt the idea in that fiction there was "wow, this is so mature, hur har." It's just that sexual tension is, you know... part of most human stories. See: most movies and literature. I agree the line itself was a little lame ("bang" comes across kind of cheap/too modern to fit with Exalted's very sweeping, epic style), but it is in fact possible to use the S-word without it being some kind of gross/creepy lascivious thing. There's a point at which you cross the line from "this is disrespectful to women" to "ewwwwww, women characters shouldn't be allowed to be anywhere near anything sexually suggestive."
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Jun 5, 2013 18:02
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theironjef posted:That's some Mary Sue fanwank, right? It's not just me thinking that guy was hired to slightly rebrand his extremely specific porn for every 2nd edition book? I wonder if the original version of that character has a name and lives in his head. As for the chapter fiction I didn't dig it much but it didn't seem revolting. Janest remains best fiction of this KS
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Jun 5, 2013 18:11
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Nightskye posted:I was right there on the creepy Lover charms, but this is just taking it a little far. I doubt the idea in that fiction there was "wow, this is so mature, hur har." It's just that sexual tension is, you know... part of most human stories. See: most movies and literature. There isn't any sexual tension in this scene, though, or if there is, then this is the most flagrant example of telling instead of showing in human history. My guess is that whoever the author of it was decided, like, "I have this awesome quip about banging drums and lifting tails and I'm going to use it!" and then they just shoved it into the middle of the text with no regard for how it actually fit. I am confident that it is only in the text because the author had that line and wanted to use it, not because they thought it added anything to the fiction at all. It certainly doesn't suggest sexual tension; it straight up says that the subject was laid to rest before the scene started. If it added anything to the story, I would not roll my eyes as hard at it. Heart Attacks fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 18:12
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Told you something about their working relationship you would not have otherwise known, I suppose, since that "settled previously" thing was not actually a scene? I dunno, I don't really want to get on this hill and defend it, it was kind of a bland scene with some questionable metaphor work. I just don't think it was particularly disturbing.
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Jun 5, 2013 18:17
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Yeah it was just kind of a goofy line. If we're gonna throw down over every goofy line in White Wolf chapter fiction, we're gonna be here a while.
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Jun 5, 2013 18:26
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Attorney at Funk posted:Yeah it was just kind of a goofy line. If we're gonna throw down over every goofy line in White Wolf chapter fiction, we're gonna be here a while.
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Jun 5, 2013 18:32
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Nightskye posted:Told you something about their working relationship you would not have otherwise known, I suppose, since that "settled previously" thing was not actually a scene? I guess it could give flavour for Lunars; it implies that their social structure is anarchic enough that it wouldn't be unknown for a socialite spy and a barbarian warlord who have temporarily gone on a mission together to hook up. Or at least, it might imply that. Who knows?
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Jun 5, 2013 19:32
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Dragon-blooded preview just came up in the KS for backers.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:34
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I rather like, so far. Particularly the bit about charms having elemental influences, instead of just having Fire Charms in your melee charm trees. Also, the last page is just a big splash black and white image, haha.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:38
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DB Preview posted:Dragon-Blooded in Exalted Third Edition will still use Ability-based Charms, but we’re going to expand their elemental Yeah. Yeah!! Here's what I'm hoping for, by the way: no Breeding background. Let's just, not have that Background. What if the Terrestrials weren't declining with time. What if that.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:43
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Where are my Cynis Charm previews? I feel cheated.  But seriously, other than the intimation of even longer Charm chapters, all of this looks golden. First splat preview to leave me more psyched than before.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:47
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Ferrinus posted:Here's what I'm hoping for, by the way: no Breeding background. Let's just, not have that Background. What if the Terrestrials weren't declining with time. What if that.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:55
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Pretty sure "everything was better before, not that we remember because we ended those ages with wars that consumed millions" is just part of the theme of Exalted, here. Would not expect "the Dragonblood lines are in decline" to go away at all.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:00
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Breeding is a crummy game trait and there are plenty of ways for the Dragon-Blooded to be in decline that don't involve their maximum essence pools dropping by a fraction with each generation!
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Jun 5, 2013 22:02
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Ferrinus posted:Breeding is a crummy game trait and there are plenty of ways for the Dragon-Blooded to be in decline that don't involve their maximum essence pools dropping by a fraction with each generation! I agree with Ferrinus. The Dragon-blooded shouldn't be in decline because their blood is inevitably thinning. They should be in decline because they're mostly egocentric and decadent gaping assholes.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:03
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Exalted's answer to life issues: Just gently caress already!
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Jun 5, 2013 22:04
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I actually kind of like the idea, if only because it attaches kind of an inevitable mortality to their entire way of life-- no matter how hard they fight, the blood is ultimately thinning, and one day there simply won't be any more Terrestrials -- but yeah, Breeding is probably the most boring way to put that across.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:05
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Yeah, I should specify that I'm totally fine with the Dragon-Blooded being in decline, but I don't want it to be because the Dragon-Blooded, as a species, are dying out because they lacked the willpower to implement a sufficiently rigorous eugenics program.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:07
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Whether or not "The Dragon-blooded's power thins with each generation" stays in as a setting thing, the Breeding background definitely needs to go. It was a bad idea as Generation, it's a bad idea here.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:07
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Ferrinus posted:Breeding is a crummy game trait and there are plenty of ways for the Dragon-Blooded to be in decline that don't involve their maximum essence pools dropping by a fraction with each generation! Also... one page of content? I'm a little underwhelmed. Lymond fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 22:07
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I am pretty excited at the idea of bloodline-specific charms and powers. It's a great way to get across the idea that dragon-blooded bloodlines are changing and diverging from the original template without, like, fingering miscegenation as the downfall of a once-mighty empire. Maybe the ancient dragon-blooded had a bunch of weird, primal elemental powers, but modern-day interbred-with-unExalted dragon-blooded have their own crazy stuff.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:10
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:I agree with Ferrinus. The Dragon-blooded shouldn't be in decline because their blood is inevitably thinning. They should be in decline because they're mostly egocentric and decadent gaping assholes. In past editions I could easily see this somehow taking effect in their Virtues - their spiritual lessening over the years reflected directly, rather than the biologically-based lessening of Essence we ended up with. Don't know what if they're keeping Virtues in the new version or not.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:13
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Lymond posted:Also... one page of content? I'm a little underwhelmed. It's not really surprising. Since they consider DBs to have been solid already, they're not going to have the huge design decisions that inventing (or reinventing) a whole splat does. The stuff they describe in the preview is probably all they're gonna need to actually do.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:15
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Nightskye posted:I actually kind of like the idea, if only because it attaches kind of an inevitable mortality to their entire way of life-- no matter how hard they fight, the blood is ultimately thinning, and one day there simply won't be any more Terrestrials -- but yeah, Breeding is probably the most boring way to put that across. Ferrinus posted:Yeah, I should specify that I'm totally fine with the Dragon-Blooded being in decline, but I don't want it to be because the Dragon-Blooded, as a species, are dying out because they lacked the willpower to implement a sufficiently rigorous eugenics program.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:15
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I think the decline of DBs is good also because it provides another problem that PCs can step in and solve. Maybe a Solar(or Infernal) circle figures out a way to make new DBs, or a DB group finds or invents some method to renew their connection, etc. Basically, it's good when Creation has problems, because they provide good seeds to for the PCs to be incredibly epic and make huge changes on the world, which, really, is the best part about Exalted.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:20
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It's about drat time we get different elemental flavors for charms. Having air aspects use fire charms because they wanted to use a sword has been stupid since first edition and I've probably been whining about it that long.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:22
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Ferrinus posted:I am pretty excited at the idea of bloodline-specific charms and powers. It's a great way to get across the idea that dragon-blooded bloodlines are changing and diverging from the original template without, like, fingering miscegenation as the downfall of a once-mighty empire. Maybe the ancient dragon-blooded had a bunch of weird, primal elemental powers, but modern-day interbred-with-unExalted dragon-blooded have their own crazy stuff.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:23
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Ferrinus posted:Breeding is a crummy game trait and there are plenty of ways for the Dragon-Blooded to be in decline that don't involve their maximum essence pools dropping by a fraction with each generation! Agreed, there are plenty of interesting ways for the Realm to be in decline without introducing an awful mechanic that encourages creepy eugenics and punishes non-realm DB players.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:42
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Yeah, I've heard enough poo poo from certain Exalted players about how the solution to the Dragon-Blooded decline boils down to breeding camps. I even linked one such discussion in the previous thread, but you folks don't deserve to have that poo poo inflicted on you again. Suffice it to say I have heard it proposed more than once and once was enough. The devs have mentioned they want Dragon-Bloods to be a threat to Celestial Exalted this time around, and I'm holding them to that. Hopefully DBs working as a group of five can break their usual caps and actually match up against a Solar, unlike in 2e where at a certain point Solars become Terrestrial-threshing machines regardless of the DBs' numbers or group tactics. And giving mechanical weight to houses seems pretty cool. I wish it was a bit lighter than having a whole other charmset, mind, but the problem with the Houses previously was that some of them were rather dull and giving them a defined schtick might help them out of their doldrums.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:52
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, I've heard enough poo poo from certain Exalted players about how the solution to the Dragon-Blooded decline boils down to breeding camps. I even linked one such discussion in the previous thread, but you folks don't deserve to have that poo poo inflicted on you again. Suffice it to say I have heard it proposed more than once and once was enough. I am kinda excited to see the V'neef flame piece charms which were hinted at in 2E.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:01
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Adding to the chorus of people hoping they remove Breeding, having run a few Dragon-Blooded the usual dynamic was max out your breeding as much as possible, or try to be stylish and cool and groan about it in the middle of a session. I haven't run a game for quite a bit, but had always considered the solution to be everyone has the mote pool benefits of Breeding five, whether your bloodline is thin or crazy strong is your aesthetic choice. Along with this I hope Purity charms are gone and replaced with these bloodline charms, Purity charms were cool and interesting until you realize several players at your table can't have a cool tool because of a decision they made five months back.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:34
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Unless they throw themselves at the mercy of an elder NPC and subject themselves to one or more save-or-die effects. 
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Jun 5, 2013 23:38
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Ferrinus posted:I am pretty excited at the idea of bloodline-specific charms and powers. It's a great way to get across the idea that dragon-blooded bloodlines are changing and diverging from the original template without, like, fingering miscegenation as the downfall of a once-mighty empire. Maybe the ancient dragon-blooded had a bunch of weird, primal elemental powers, but modern-day interbred-with-unExalted dragon-blooded have their own crazy stuff. I can think of ways to make the DBs still have the 'declining if not irreversible failure of the people' with less 'sex camps for Cathak Cutie' too: make most 'ancestry' things social merits or basically 'You have access to the V'Neef charm tree, isn't that wonderful?'. While I suppose having some kind of 'your parents had unusually well-cultivated Essence, and as such you have a slightly larger Essence pool or whatever' merit WOULD instantly become mandatory for all competitive DB builds and lead to the downfall of Western civilization, it's certainly less offensive to say 'you stem the decline by cultivating virtuous behavior and wisdom' than 'by nailing your aunt.'
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Jun 5, 2013 23:40
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Nessus posted:I recall there were things like the Ghost-blooded-ish DBs in the past; I remember in fact thinking that Liminals would basically be those guys, more divergent and more fleshed out. The Dark Mother does sound a lot like the Gaia of the Underworld...
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Jun 5, 2013 23:42
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quote:Elemental Magic I like how its supposed to be funny but instead its sad. Nessus posted:Sharkdad's revenge: the return of goofy-rear end White Wolf chapter fiction. You seem to have confused 'goofy' with 'amazing'. e: oh glorious backer updates Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 00:15
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Valhawk posted:I think the decline of DBs is good also because it provides another problem that PCs can step in and solve. Maybe a Solar(or Infernal) circle figures out a way to make new DBs, or a DB group finds or invents some method to renew their connection, etc. No, Solars walking around being the only solution to every problem is an awful trait of 2nd Edition. Poor Alchemicals, not allowed to ever tell stories about curing the Machine God; you need a Solar Exalt for that! Dragon-Blooded preview has me teetering on backing the Kickstarter. I dearly want diversified elemental charms like they described, the writers just saying "gently caress it, double NO TRIPLE the Charm chapter word-count" kind of made me happy. House specific Charm trees are nifty, and are already a semi-house rule in our current game where the Cynis are innovators in Charm experimentation.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:16
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I am not certain, but I think there will be some sort of Breeding Merit. It's not going to be a barrier to Charms or affect mote pools, though. We are being very careful with motes.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:19
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Strength of Many posted:I like how its supposed to be funny but instead its sad.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:23
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cenotaph posted:It's about drat time we get different elemental flavors for charms. Having air aspects use fire charms because they wanted to use a sword has been stupid since first edition and I've probably been whining about it that long. Eleven years is a long time to have lovely charms. Let's hope that ends now. If we're really lucky this time around they'll realize that you don't need a half-dozen or so crap speed bump charms blocking the overpowered one buried at the end of the tree and instead give dragon-blooded a five/five elemental split of good effects that a starting character might actually want to take.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:23
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To my (admittedly lacking) understanding, Essence was the closest thing that Exalted had to levels (i.e. At Essence 3, you get access to these charms and you get so many motes a round, at Essence 4 you get access to these charms, etc). So, was Breeding a merit that gave you access to higher essences? Like you had to have breeding 3 to be able to get essence 3 or whatever? If so, I know RPGs are kind of rife with the awesome now/suck later and suck now/awesome later character growth plans, but that's... a really impressively bad design decision.
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Jun 6, 2013 01:57
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