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OBi posted:It's a bit unnerving how much better all this talk makes me feel about having committed $500 to a video game. It can't be a bad decision if other people are lining up to try and do the same thing, right? Want to buy some Tulips? 100 bucks a bunch man, other people are selling them for 200 a bunch. I am in for 250 and skeptical of Cryptozoic's previous work. Most of their products strike me as average but not great. Kickstarter is a gamble when you're talking about something as volatile as an MMO. My attitude is, high hopes and open mind. But their previous non-WoW deckbuilding games are kind of bland and I don't know anything about WoW TCG. Edit: The reason my hopes are high despite my skepticism is that Magic Online has been doing it so poorly for so long that despite it's top dog status the market is wide open. I don't know too much about it but I understand Verant had a similar touchy relationship with the Everquest playerbase before WoW came along. It would be nice to see history repeat itself. Even if it's not amazing on release they could always hire selectively and make improvements. Crosswell fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 21:52
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Neat information from the stream so far. The process of generating booster packs is going to emulate the actual process of how booster packs are made in physical TCGs to make sure boosters are diverse and good for Draft tournaments There's going to be factions dedicated to PvP and possible Phantom Drafts against the AI for new players. Edit: Everyone gets their own roll on loot tables in raids, though it's still up in the air and could change Edit 2: There's apparently going to be some mini-game variants available, too. Edit 3: The stream has since devolved into talking about LARPing and White Wolf RPGs. Edit 4: Not gonna be on the Ouya, no plans, anyway. Edit 5: Trophies on the back of the cards for winning tournaments gives information on the tourney and who won it as a digital signature. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 21:53
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Ooh, that's nice. Apparently the booster RNG is going to be tuned towards making compelling drafts, mimicking hoppers in paper TCGs. e: goddammit
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Jun 5, 2013 21:54
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OBi posted:It's a bit unnerving how much better all this talk makes me feel about having committed $500 to a video game. It can't be a bad decision if other people are lining up to try and do the same thing, right? Look at it this way: it's no crazier than the Dutch tulip mania, right? Seriously though it's at least a reasonable gamble if you can afford to gamble $500. Collectible card games are somewhat inherently bad ideas because, let's face it, this is all a crazy amount of money to spend on a game, but hell, my Revised Edition magic cards have at least held some mild degree of value over time (if only because of my one Underground Sea and a couple of Sol Rings). It's no worse an idea than any other "collectible" "investment" is. My various Roger Zelazny first editions probably aren't "worth it" in objective terms either, but I don't regret buying them, and I don't expect to regret this purchase either.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:56
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Crosswell posted:Want to buy some Tulips? 100 bucks a bunch man, other people are selling them for 200 a bunch. Yeah I definitely have some misgivings. One of the things that really helps my confidence level is how much of a straight rip of magic it is. I already know I'll enjoy the basic gameplay, so all they need to do is not screw up the rest of it.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:57
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Karnegal posted:Do we assume that the slacker tier gets you into the beta? Because that alone would probably be enough to drag people in after the fact. The email doesn't say anything about that. I don't want to assume anything we don't have evidence for, but on the other hand it seems natural that it would.
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Jun 5, 2013 21:57
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Crosswell posted:Want to buy some Tulips? 100 bucks a bunch man, other people are selling them for 200 a bunch. I'm largely in the same boat and am treating it as a calculated risk. That said, the EQ playerbase *hated* Verant (often with good reason) and WoW triggered an exodus in a way that this game won't do to MTGO. Seriously, Verant spent something like two years denying things the players were observing on a daily basis existed.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look at it this way: it's no crazier than the Dutch tulip mania, right? At the end of the day, if the game tanks, it was a bad use of money. If the game is successful, but you don't like it, you should be able to get out your initial investment and potentially a profit, especially if you have a unique reward tier.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:03
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Adar posted:I'm largely in the same boat and am treating it as a calculated risk. That said, the EQ playerbase *hated* Verant (often with good reason) and WoW triggered an exodus in a way that this game won't do to MTGO. Seriously, Verant spent something like two years denying things the players were observing on a daily basis existed. The counterpoint though is that there's twenty year's worth of former Magic players who are looking for a fresh start in a game that doesn't have two decades' worth of card bloat and power creep. It's not precisely analogous to EQ/WoW but the comparison doesn't strike me as completely invalid. There's a big market opportunity here. A better comparison might be Warhammer's refusal to license a Blizzard videogame because of the fear that it would harm sales of figurines. MTGO has always viewed its digital product as a gateway to the paper game and never properly developed it on its own, and now Crypto has an opportunity to create M:TG 2.0 in a digital space without the inherent flaws of the prior version.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:16
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Cory just went on record as saying that Dungeon Crawler does work for raids as far as he knows!
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Jun 5, 2013 22:18
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pumpinglemma posted:Cory just went on record as saying that Dungeon Crawler does work for raids as far as he knows! WHOA poo poo just got real My pledge just literally doubled in value
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Jun 5, 2013 22:21
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pumpinglemma posted:Cory just went on record as saying that Dungeon Crawler does work for raids as far as he knows! Well, my decision to grab that tier a few weeks back just got justified. Holy poo poo. I bet everyone that snagged one just before they ran out feels REALLY good right now.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:22
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Zonekeeper posted:Well, my decision to grab that tier a few weeks back just got justified. Holy poo poo. 
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Jun 5, 2013 22:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look at it this way: it's no crazier than the Dutch tulip mania, right? Hah. I had to post this:  Hieronymous Alloy posted:The counterpoint though is that there's twenty year's worth of former Magic players who are looking for a fresh start in a game that doesn't have two decades' worth of card bloat and power creep. Yeah this is the main reason I jumped on board. Aside from all the promising and creative things they've talked about, I'm just excited to be able to get in on the ground floor. I also think the cheaper booster prices, lack of a reserve list, and the absolute glut of early cards that will come from kickstarter backers could keep the eternal formats a lot healthier than Magic's.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:24
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I have a feeling Cory is going to come back and say he misspoke about Dungeon Crawler. It has been reported for some time that it wouldn't apply to raids. Although I don't know the source for that.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:24
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OBi posted:Yeah I definitely have some misgivings. One of the things that really helps my confidence level is how much of a straight rip of magic it is. I already know I'll enjoy the basic gameplay, so all they need to do is not screw up the rest of it. The problem being that "the rest of it" is the important bit. It's actually not hard to design the basic mechanics of a deck-based game once you have the example of Magic to use. Where it falls down is rules complexity and interaction between cards. Even Wizards gently caress up interaction sometimes, because they can't spot everything or test the whole metagame. All it will take is for Hex to have a few cards that are way overpowered or too hard to deal with, and players will disappear in droves.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:30
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Jedit posted:The problem being that "the rest of it" is the important bit. It's actually not hard to design the basic mechanics of a deck-based game once you have the example of Magic to use. Where it falls down is rules complexity and interaction between cards. Even Wizards gently caress up interaction sometimes, because they can't spot everything or test the whole metagame. All it will take is for Hex to have a few cards that are way overpowered or too hard to deal with, and players will disappear in droves. Although true for PvP, I think this is a lesser issue in PvE. When you aren't playing against another person who is doing "unfair" things, it doesn't really sting that bad.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:32
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Jedit posted:The problem being that "the rest of it" is the important bit. It's actually not hard to design the basic mechanics of a deck-based game once you have the example of Magic to use. Where it falls down is rules complexity and interaction between cards. Even Wizards gently caress up interaction sometimes, because they can't spot everything or test the whole metagame. All it will take is for Hex to have a few cards that are way overpowered or too hard to deal with, and players will disappear in droves. I'm not going to be overconfident because you're right, but in defense of the format, you can do a lot of things with online cards you can't do with regular cards. One example is that if you have a card that's too powerful or a combo that breaks the game, you can ban the card from PvP and give all customers with it a nerfed PvP card while letting them keep the original for PvE/vintage. You can do this within days if the combo is bad enough. What's more, if your back end is built correctly, you know exactly how overpowered a card is because you have the percentage of all decks that have 4 of that card contained in it and the percentage of those decks that win PvP matches available in Excel format, sortable by any date range and player lifetime win percentages in case pros use it better. Good data analysis was made for this kind of game. Whether Cryptozoic can do that is another story. I'm pretty convinced they were $200-300K in the hole before the KS and running on fumes and now have a surprise, runaway hit on their hands that they have to manage very quickly. It could end very badly. But like I said, calculated risk.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:36
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Jedit posted:The problem being that "the rest of it" is the important bit. It's actually not hard to design the basic mechanics of a deck-based game once you have the example of Magic to use. Where it falls down is rules complexity and interaction between cards. Even Wizards gently caress up interaction sometimes, because they can't spot everything or test the whole metagame. All it will take is for Hex to have a few cards that are way overpowered or too hard to deal with, and players will disappear in droves. True, but they're working from a much more knowledgeable position than Wizards. Magic's early years introduced a ton of stuff that now represent existing landmines to card design because of how wonky or unique the effects were, Cryptozoic has all of their successes and failures to build off of. I don't doubt that they'll make mistakes (leading candidate: Escalation) but they've got a huge body of information to look towards when it comes to figuring out how to deal with mistakes, because Magic has existed for so long as a game. I think a lot of it will boil down to desire for immediate profit vs. long term stability, and while there are definite question marks there for both companies, I think the existence of two nearly identical competing products will act as a moderating influence on both.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:40
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OK, someone please tell me if I'm either stupid or insane: I have the Pro Player tier but I'm starting to wonder if I will play tournaments THAT often...is there anyone willing to trade it for Dungeon Crawler somehow?
AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 22:45
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Why hasn't anyone been talking about how they mentioned in the stream that the Dungeon Crawler tier doesn't actually double your drops, rather giving you two rolls on the table giving you the best result of the rolls? That's what they said on the stream, anyway.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:47
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What a Judas posted:Why hasn't anyone been talking about how they mentioned in the stream that the Dungeon Crawler tier doesn't actually double your drops, rather giving you two rolls on the table giving you the best result of the rolls? That's what they said on the stream, anyway. It sounded to me like you get to roll twice and get both rewards from each roll, not you roll twice pick once.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:48
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Are you sure you didn't mishear? I heard it as two rolls on the table and two drops, and Cory's said repeatedly that it's two rolls and two drops.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:48
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Overflight posted:OK, someone please tell me if I'm either stupid or insane: I have the Pro Player tier but I'm starting to wonder if I will play tournaments THAT often...is there anyone willing to trade it for Dungeon Crawler somehow? I have a Dungeon Crawler I'm holding on to, but Pro Player is currently at negative 5 so 5 people would have to ditch. I would trade my DC for a PP in a second, though. Maybe they'll give us account creation codes instead of attaching it to our KS emails and you can jsut swap it that way?
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Jun 5, 2013 22:49
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Overflight posted:OK, someone please tell me if I'm either stupid or insane: I have the Pro Player tier but I'm starting to wonder if I will play tournaments THAT often...is there anyone willing to trade it for Dungeon Crawler somehow? I think the way to do this would be to get each other's information and swap account keys when they give you the opportunity. Using kickstarter's interface will cause you both to lose your pledge levels.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:50
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What a Judas posted:Why hasn't anyone been talking about how they mentioned in the stream that the Dungeon Crawler tier doesn't actually double your drops, rather giving you two rolls on the table giving you the best result of the rolls? That's what they said on the stream, anyway. Say the loot table for a boss is: 0-20 Dancing Elf 21-40 Mincing Elf 41-60 Fencing Elf 61-80 Fancy Elf 81-100 Prancing Elf Someone without DC would roll a 101 sided die once and get one elf, someone with DC would roll it twice and get 2 elves.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:54
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No, they made it very clear on the stream that you would get 2 rolls but you would only get one of the results: the better of the two.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:58
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What a Judas posted:No, they made it very clear on the stream that you would get 2 rolls but you would only get one of the results: the better of the two. Really? Ugh, I'd been hearing it the other way pretty consistently. On the kickstarter it says "100% extra loot drop from dungeon bosses FOR LIFE!" which definitely makes it sound like you end up with twice as many items. Is there a recording of the stream?
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Jun 5, 2013 23:03
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The worded it a bit strangely, but I still think The Moon Monster's interpretation is correct http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412717902 ,after 3:25 what he is trying to say is "you don't get two of the same item, you get to roll twice"
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Jun 5, 2013 23:04
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Yeah, it's definitely worded for two rolls, get one of them. Maybe you get to see both choices, maybe not, that's not clear from what he's said there. Edit: I just saw a DC spot open while I was trying to get a cheap King pledge, so how would it be possible to trade it to someone else? SilverMike fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 23:06
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What are you guys talking about, rolling on a loot table means getting a weighted random item. Rolling on a loot table twice means getting two weighted random items.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:08
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Tamba posted:The worded it a bit strangely, but I still think The Moon Monster's interpretation is correct The stream makes it sound like the way The Moon Monster described. You roll twice on the loot table. Some results may be "get nothing," but you're getting double chances at loot. And sometimes you'll be taking home twice as many piece of loot.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:09
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What a Judas posted:No, they made it very clear on the stream that you would get 2 rolls but you would only get one of the results: the better of the two. 
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Jun 5, 2013 23:11
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I misinterpreted what I heard, then. I apologize. From the way it sounded to me was that he was trying to correct a misconception, and I misunderstood his explanation.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:13
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I gotta agree with Moon Monster here. You have two chances to drop stuff, it doesn't guarantee two things will drop because you could wind up rolling squat on one or both of your loot rolls, but you can get up to two.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:14
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What a Judas posted:I misinterpreted what I heard, then. I apologize. From the way it sounded to me was that he was trying to correct a misconception, and I misunderstood his explanation. He was trying to correct the misconception that you roll once, and then get two of that item.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:15
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OK, two DC levels just cleared up and I took one of them. Pro Player tier for the quickest person on the draw! EDIT: That was fast.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:16
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That'd be nice except it was at -5 so -4 still ain't happening for anyone else. And just in case it was missed in my earlier edit, does anyone know how you'd trade pledge levels with someone? Trying to time it through KS would be way too risky...
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Jun 5, 2013 23:19
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Just thought I would share:Cryptozoic Entertainment posted:
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Jun 5, 2013 23:19
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SilverMike posted:That'd be nice except it was at -5 so -4 still ain't happening for anyone else. I don't think you can. Maybe CZ would help you out if 2 parties both contacted them and wanted to swap, but I imagine their hands are going to be pretty full with combining pledges.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:25
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