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Milwaukee: I'm going to throw a couple of far out ideas out there just to get others thinking on alternative meanings: "Cast in copper" Could copper refer to something else besides the metal? An actor or actress is said to be "cast" in a role, could "copper" be a play or a movie from the time? Copper is also used as a term for beer kettles. While normally I would dismiss this, Milwaukee was the beer capital of the United States in 1982, and debatably is still today. Are/were there any breweries in that general area?
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Jun 6, 2013 08:03
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Cask 9 CronoGamer posted:My feeling is that your connections to 15 and 21 are a little too tenuous for the treasure hunt. Reading those, I thought that they would be a little more specifically related to the location of the cask. But I agree with your interpretation of the jewels abounding and wondering whether the Mount Stephens Club might be central to the hunt here. The cask in Cleveland was hidden in a public park, yes, but in that park it was buried in a planter (not in the open ground). There are shrubs and dirt and grass in front of the Mount Stephens club... could the verse refer to aspects of that building? All the columns and the pomp and such of the building seem reminiscent of Greek Cultural Garden... It may just be the starting point of the search. I also found that another notable St. Stephen member was Pierre Trudeau, who is known for campaigning for civil rights, liberty and notwithstanding clause. In a nutshell, he was all about human rights of Canadians. Somewhere in the thread the books content was talked about, and it's about immigration. If that's true, then Pierre Trudeau would fall in with that. So, we have 2 noteable people hanging out at the same place, that have to do with the context of the book in some fashion, with the very obvious legeater. It would make sense that this may be where you start the search, imo.
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Jun 6, 2013 08:26
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acmpsu21 posted:Milwaukee: The Miller brewery is probably too far west to be possible, as it's in the Miller Valley around 35th & State St. However, the Pabst brewery is at 9th & Juneau and was still in operation back in 1982.
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Jun 6, 2013 08:31
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PunkNickel posted:Cask 9 The Canadian constitution/bill of rights came after the book.
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Jun 6, 2013 08:41
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Emacs Headroom posted:Puzzle solving needs branching (trying out new ideas) and pruning (tossing out ideas that won't work). There's no point in trying to knock people doing either process. We need both. Good call. Also plagiarism, which is where I come in. Sham I Am posted:The problem with it being the gardens, as i see it, is that the trail just goes dead. Everyone can get to the gardens, most get to the sunken gardens, and then...nothing I don't think people should get too hung up on the idea of linear trails through verses or places. Most likely some bits work like that, other bits don't. There's nothing linear about the Chicago solve; geographically it's all over the place. Likewise in the Cleveland verse, specific details about the location precede more general ones. BJG fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 08:51
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MassaShowtime posted:The Canadian constitution/bill of rights came after the book. I know it did, but Trudeau was working on these things prior to when they were enacted. It was one of those "through the course of his term(s) he chipped away at the bars to the human freedoms in Canada.
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Jun 6, 2013 08:59
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HoboZero posted:
First thing that comes up as a google search is John 8:32
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Jun 6, 2013 09:45
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I've been corresponding with someone who's worked on Boston for a very long time, and he laid out a very convincing case that there isn't one in Boston. If we take the author at his word that there's one in St. Louis, then the picture we're all calling Boston almost has to be St. Louis, since the other unmatched one appears to be Montreal. At the very least, one of the unmatched has to be Montreal, and there just isn't much directly pointing to Boston. Also, if you think it's in Copley, I'm not telling you what to do with your time, but it's gone. They've dug up Copley twice since the 80s and completely re-did it and repaved/added roads. My #1 Boston theory right now is Charlesgate. I'm trying not to work off of the poem - that isn't the correct way to solve it. I need to get on the ground (out of the US right now) and see what stuff looks like, because from various angles it might line up. I've matched some direct imagery (but you can do that anywhere if you try hard), but some is still missing. But I'm really beginning to think there isn't one in Boston, as much as I'd like there to be.
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Jun 6, 2013 10:51
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PunkNickel posted:Cask 9 Is the subject matter of the book of that much importance? The "author" of the book didn't even write it himself, right? He got two National Lampoon guys to write the majority of it as I understand. And as far as immigration being a theme, I don't think it was a cause near and dear to the author (I could be wrong here of course), I think it was just a vehicle to get the fairies/gnomes/etc. into the United States. I don't think it's strong enough that he would have thought about Pierre Trudeau, who was sorta-kinda associated with immigration. Just thinking that's kind of a stretch. I'd love to hear from BJG on why exactly he/she seems to have a hunch about the Percy Walters park. Is there anything drawing you there besides the 15 to the ground thing, as mentioned in that Montreal forum which was linked to earlier? I'll also point out that although it seems intriguing that there are 15 lines in the fences, "rows" usually imply horizontal lines, whereas vertical ones are "columns". So I don't know that I'd think of that as 15 rows to the ground. If I were looking for 15 rows to the ground, I might look at a building with 15 stories, or a structure with prominent horizontal features... one of the reasons why I was drawn to the original legeater picture:  because of this sort of feature on the Mount Stephens Club building: 
CronoGamer fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 11:26
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As there have been several calls for exact matches, I'd like to balance this with a call for inexact matches. Grant Park had several close ones, sure, but even the most obvious were distorted; like turning the Water Tower into a windmill. The disguise for the inverted Cleveland Terminal Tower went a step further...  BP and JJP were experts in making one thing look like another. In Byron's Imagine A Day, "children walk along a picket fence, which almost imperceptibly turns into a city skyline that features the Chrysler Building". Here's a morphing Chrysler possibility in Image 12:  ...or another mad suggestion someone once came up with...  So don't just look for simple, obvious things. Look for weird, messed-up, melting things. (Though I'd agree that simple, generic shapes would have to be pretty exact to merit attention.) Incidentally I don't think the Chrysler actually has any significance beyond being a general NY landmark. People bent over backwards trying to work the Chicago building into some kind of trail but I never saw anything convincing. You might find stuff which is hard to find, but still irrelevant to the final location. BJG fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 11:35
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CronoGamer posted:I'd love to hear from BJG on why exactly he/she seems to have a hunch about the Percy Walters park. Is there anything drawing you there besides the 15 to the ground thing, as mentioned in that Montreal forum which was linked to earlier? Nope, that one's pretty flimsy...main reason is simply that it's the nearest park to the only solid clue for Montreal. In general this is the most uncertain image in terms of verse and city. Bankok posted:Here's a link to scans we did today with an original copy of the book. Great work on the image scans...any chance of scanning in the introductory chapter for people to look at? There's such a blatant clue for the Fountain of Youth I can't help thinking there may be others. BJG fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 11:56
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PunkNickel posted:Cask 9 oh gently caress w= world t= tomorrow that was the name of the exhibit that famously burned down and you guys can see when you watch the f1 race this weekend (the ball that looks like epcot)  edit: just spoke to my dad and hes corrected me. world of tomorrow was also the theme of the new york expo and that was the working title of the usa pavillion stab fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 12:45
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Cask 6 could be on or near Merrit Island. The negative space made by rock the knight is on in the picture is the same shape as the bay and a lot of the verses in the text could allude to the space program. I only thought of this because I always though that the bay looked like a head as a kid and its a very distinct shape. If I had to guess what part of the picture held more info it's probably that little green cloud in the bottom right corner which looks exactly like a slice of the Florida coast if I ever saw one.
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Jun 6, 2013 12:46
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BJG posted:As there have been several calls for exact matches, I'd like to balance this with a call for inexact matches. Grant Park had several close ones, sure, but even the most obvious were distorted; like turning the Water Tower into a windmill. Can you point out your confirmed examples of warped, messed-up, or melty things? Disguising things and fundamentally changing them are vastly different forms of inexactness. The Cleveland Terminal Tower is still an exact match and not at all an example of shape distortion, so I am a bit confused as to which examples you feel actually distort (beyond through the simple act of painting and not taking a picture) the physical shape of hidden clues.
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Jun 6, 2013 12:57
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stab posted:oh gently caress I did not know that, but then again, I don't know alot about any cities specific history. This thread has been one long history and geography lesson for me. I love it so. But, yeah, if the 67 is there, tied to the expo, which is an obvious one. The the W,T, could more than likely be World of Tomorrow from that expo. I hope this ends up being right, because I fear this may be the only "real" contribution from me for this whole crazy adventure. 
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Jun 6, 2013 12:58
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stab posted:oh gently caress oh shittttt guys read the wikipedia page for expo 67 right now. look at the picture of the habitat 67 building  across from the port of montreal on ile ste heleneand there's the botanical events of the 1980's on that island...can we research what type of flower he's wearing? stab fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 12:58
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BJG posted:As there have been several calls for exact matches, I'd like to balance this with a call for inexact matches. Grant Park had several close ones, sure, but even the most obvious were distorted; like turning the Water Tower into a windmill. That windmill looks to have runes on it along with numbers. I'll check it out and see what I come up with, since I've been digging around runes all night. e: the only one that is prominent is the z, and it is for the letter E. Was the cask found east of anything? The coordinates are very obviously on that windmill, I just wanted to see if anything else there was of worth, or if it's a red herring, since we found runes in the Montreal one. PunkNickel fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 13:01
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Bankok posted:Here's a link to scans we did today with an original copy of the book. For some reason I couldn't get them to upload to imgur.com (think because they were over 10mb each) so had to use flickr. Thank you Bankok, these are great!!!!
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Jun 6, 2013 13:05
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Nice high-quality scans there. Could you perhaps make high-res scans of the two pictures that were already solved, too, so one could have the full set in that quality?
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Jun 6, 2013 13:37
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Infidel Castro posted:The Miller brewery is probably too far west to be possible, as it's in the Miller Valley around 35th & State St. However, the Pabst brewery is at 9th & Juneau and was still in operation back in 1982. Schlitz was also still in operation until 1982. Blatz Brewery was still physically there but had been closed for quite a few years previously.
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Jun 6, 2013 14:15
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A couple of things I've noticed while staring at the Charleston picture: The Northwest and Northeastern wings of the Faerie look a lot like flounder, you can tell because of the scales, the spot near the tail and the two eyes facing up in the same direction:   The Se and Sw wings resemble a different kind of fish that I haven't really been able to recognize. Definitely a different fish because of the single eye. There's supposed to be a really nice aquarium in Charleston.  The nose of the lion with the mouth looks like a glass, upside down it resembles a tree. On the top right corner of the picture I see 80 or 88 along with 36 hidden in the Lion's hair. The address for the Angel Oak tree slightly west of Charleston is 3688 Angel Oak Rd. quote:Lane Two twenty two The only standing member of a forest could represent the giant oak tree. I believe there is a plaque/stone/marker underneath the tree.  Just a thought. I still don't get why a Pear is attached to a pine tree, that's really bugging me for some reason.
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Jun 6, 2013 14:16
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The Charleston Aquarium wasn't completed till well after the date of the book. The Angel Oak might be worth looking at in more detail but the real problem is there's nothing there except Oak Tree, no other markers or statues or anything to serve as landmarks or reference points for the other dates in the verse. Not buying the flounder image personally but it's as good a guess as anything I've come up with (cobblestones?) I think the pear must be a rebus of some kind. Pair of . . . ?
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Jun 6, 2013 14:19
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Ah Ok I wasn't aware of the aquarium's construction date.
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Jun 6, 2013 14:21
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BJG posted:I don't think people should get too hung up on the idea of linear trails through verses or places. Most likely some bits work like that, other bits don't. There's nothing linear about the Chicago solve; geographically it's all over the place. Likewise in the Cleveland verse, specific details about the location precede more general ones. Earlier you posted the two places where people think the cask is hidden, under the gate or near the bench, but as far as I can tell there is no real reason to believe that either of those areas are correct other than those are the two things at the end of the trails. No clues in the image that this is right, no real reason in the poem to suggest the gardens themselves. Don't get me wrong, their could be very compelling evidence for either or both of those two areas, I have only known about this for a few days so I may very well have just missed the explanation of why we should dig there.
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Jun 6, 2013 14:26
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Luminous posted:Can you point out your confirmed examples of warped, messed-up, or melty things? No, not really. TBH I'm partly reacting off arguments with folk at Q4T who insisted that only methods used in solving the two known casques were valid for attempting any of the others. Two out of twelve is a pretty small sample, and Chicago seems atypical. I could point out that the Image 6 knight is indubitably Ponce de Leon at the Fountain of Youth, though there's no representation of him on horseback there. I also like this "non-exact" comparison to a detail from a painting by the Boston artist JS Copley. (The character is called "Faith".)   I don't want to argue about it though; it's subjective opinion. Just saying it's worth keeping an open mind.
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Jun 6, 2013 14:27
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Montreal I am trying hard to convince myself that 9 is in fact Montreal, but I can't. The numbers in the painting are so ambiguous you could generate dozens of lat/longs. The legeater is the only really solid clue, but unless we can get information on what the legeater actually is, we don't know that the lamp decorations are the only instance of that sculpture. There doesn't seem to be anything online. Do we have anyone in Montreal that can try to find out more about the lamps?
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Jun 6, 2013 14:45
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Charleston The aquarium was later than the book sure, but flounder are common in the shallow areas around Charleston (and the whole coast of SC), so it might be a real thing. Also flounder is tasty.
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Jun 6, 2013 15:03
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Typh posted:Montreal I asked around a bit to friends studying history and museology and they have no clue. It's super recognizable though so that would be my guess on why it's on there. I am not sure the origin would give out anything more, probably horse races since it was a rich English people club. Here is an interesting picture that shows poppies everywhere on the building itself. 
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Jun 6, 2013 15:07
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Sham I Am posted:Earlier you posted the two places where people think the cask is hidden, under the gate or near the bench, but as far as I can tell there is no real reason to believe that either of those areas are correct OK, well, in no particular order... Pass two friends of octave In December Wright brothers, friends of Octave, Wright Brothers Day is in December. To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable Determination Modified quote from the Wright Brothers monument, in the shape of a wing. Ride the man of oz Baum ferry to Roanoke To the land near the window Map of Roanoke in Image 3 There's a road that leads to Dark forest Mangled quote from a sign in the general area. We know Byron likes quoting from signs. Cleveland was solved from a Googled quote on a sign. In July and August Quote from sign After circle and square ? Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing Railing, once a tree...? Whatever. A path beckons To mica and driftwood Where white is in color With two maps Look north at the wing And dig Sign with two maps by White where you can look north at the wing, and I think there's a path to the beach. This isn't my theory; just the best idea I've heard so far. BJG fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 15:13
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BJG posted:OK, well, in no particular order... Having said that, I hope I'm wrong and the Goon that is planning on going down to look for the cask manages to dig it up right under the gate or bench (I think that is where he is planning on looking anyway).
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Jun 6, 2013 15:32
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This brings me to the second thing in the picture. How does anybody see a locust tree here? I see the smudge as the spiked hair on top of a head looking downwards. The darker spot on the right side is a shoulder of the body. The face is faint but looks like Skeletor. Double Edit: Or it looks like Robert M. La Follette, deep in thought!!  [/quote] I guess I just assumed people were right about it looking like a locust(which it kinda does), but yeah I see what you are talking about.
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Jun 6, 2013 15:50
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Sham I Am posted:there does not appear to be any clues from the illustration confirming the location like they had in Cleveland Lost Colony Theatre?  Walter Raleigh?  Crossbow? One of the park's founders was Fletcher.  Chemical elements?   A ship's mast?   A wire fence?  A cobbler's "last" (last touched)...?  This is old brainstorming from Q4T. Don't lynch me for it. Just saying there are different approaches to image analysis than Chicago.
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Jun 6, 2013 16:01
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MilwaukeeTipsyMc posted:This brings me to the second thing in the picture. How does anybody see a locust tree here? I see the smudge as the spiked hair on top of a head looking downwards. The darker spot on the right side is a shoulder of the body. The face is faint but looks like Skeletor. Nobody's suggesting it's a locust tree; it's pretty clearly a cicada, which is often called a 17-year locust (that's what everyone was calling them when I was growing up in the 80's, and that's what's been suggested in some of the resources we've been looking at). That could refer either to Locust St or potentially to a locust tree. Probably doesn't refer to a bug carcass, unless someone made a bronze sculpture of one somewhere. Edit: so if the cask is downtown (which is not close to Locust St), then I suggest people keep an eye out for locust trees. If it's in Lake Park, then it's very likely Locust St has to factor into the directions somehow. Dr. Bit fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 16:24
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Montreal Checkered pattern is prominent. 1) The hyatt hotel exterior is completely checker patterned. 2) The hotel is close by to the Leg Eater statue. 3) The hyatt hotel was built in 1976, before the puzzle was created. (Source for this is the hotel manager. I e-mailed them) 1)  Star on top rightis the hotel. Star on bottom left is the leg eater. 2)  Is this the hotel where he stay? Rick Deckard fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 6, 2013 |
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Jun 6, 2013 17:15
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Ugh I really want to drive to Charleston (from Charlotte) this weekend and just poke around the different parks/sites. I would only be able to stay a day though.
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Jun 6, 2013 17:24
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Dr. Bit posted:Milwaukee Please draw it because I can't see it for the life of me
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Jun 6, 2013 17:25
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Montreal The legeater statue is so distinct, but so tiny it doesn't seem like a place to start walking from, but looks more like a place one would walk to. You'd have no idea to start there if you were doing a broad, narrowing search of Montreal, but after following X or Y clues in the verses or from the image, I can see looking around, spotting that, and then knowing it has to be buried nearby. I wonder if that is why the leg "breaks" through the picture frame around it-signifying that one of those legs is breaking/pointing through the ground, and the cask is directly underneath. I can't tell for sure, but in the pictures it looks like some shrubbery is next the building, with three legs pointing down either side of the street, one away from the building and one right back at it, straight at the dirt. It might be helpful to backtrack from it, trying to get there from other parts of the verse/image, rather than using it as a point to branch out from.
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Jun 6, 2013 17:43
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Typh posted:Montreal BJG has the most information up that corresponds with it being Montreal. There is a great post on pg 29 that lists multiple things that correspond. The thing that seals it for me is that it was confirmed via email from Preiss in 2003 that "yes a cask is in canada". Occams razor, if all the other casks are lining up with locations in the united states, and the only one that isn't is cask 9, that means cask 9 is in Montreal.
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Jun 6, 2013 17:52
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Imazul posted:I asked around a bit to friends studying history and museology and they have no clue. It's super recognizable though so that would be my guess on why it's on there. I am not sure the origin would give out anything more, probably horse races since it was a rich English people club. Here is an interesting picture that shows poppies everywhere on the building itself. St. Stephens club is a gentlemen's club. Not sure if horse racing has anything to do with what the members did there.
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Jun 6, 2013 17:56
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crashdome posted:Please draw it because I can't see it for the life of me gently caress, all I have is Preview right now, so I can circle a couple of the features. I'm sure someone can do a million times better of a job on this. Circle on the left: stinger at the end of the abdomen middle circle: legs right circle: head top circle: ridges along the back. It's probably best if you go back to the original picture now and see it without the circles. I also posted a picture of an actual cicada above.
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Jun 6, 2013 17:56
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