p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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titaniumone: Jun 10, 2001

prefect posted:

maven?

and is scons particularly bad or something? i've never used it

someone last page said it was nightmareish and someone else linked that it scales horribly and this is a really large project so they're definitely gonna get owned by the scaling

i want other laffs as well though but yeah i know nothing about it

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:56

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:15

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

you're not declaring things, you're executing imperative statements to declare things one at a time (or in a loop or in an if statement or whatever)

this smells like dung

build systems in general smell like dung tho so w/e if it works for you use it

# ? Jun 6, 2013 17:58

Posting Principle: Dec 10, 2011; by Ralp

the nightmare i was talking about was caring about build systems, not specifically scons

right now one of our components at works has a build process that goes like this:

1. build tool from source
2. fetch variable number of files from network location to parse
2. use tool to parse files from step 2 and output variable number of headers
3. use headers from step 3 to build component

scons makes it easy for us to mix the imperative (get some stuff, parse some stuff) and the declarative (make a list of dependency nodes from the parse results, add them as a requirement for component foo)

scons makes doing that really really easy so if we can manage/tolerate the slowness then its a net gain for us but who knows how it will work out

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:24

Posting Principle: Dec 10, 2011; by Ralp

note that right now we do this with autotools and shell scripts :negative:

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:25

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Jerry SanDisky posted:

note that right now we do this with autotools and shell scripts

build system documentation
build scripts
test docs
test code
comments
code

the thing at the bottom is terrible. the thing at the top is just painful.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:30

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

builds are supposed to be horrible; otherwise it would be harder for me to find work

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:32

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

prefect posted:

and is scons particularly bad or something? i've never used it

it is pronounced "scones" :mad:

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:33

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

qntm posted:

it is pronounced "scones"

that's one point against it

(scones are terrible)

# ? Jun 6, 2013 18:56

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

prefect posted:

(scones are terrible)

mlyp

# ? Jun 6, 2013 19:04

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

I have a graph theory type question

I have an object that looks like this:

code:

data = { 
  nodes: [
    {name: 'whatevs1', attribute: 'yaws' },
    {name: 'whatevs2', attribute: 'paws' },
    ....
  ],
  edges: [
    {source: 'whatevs1', target: 'whatevs2'},
    ...
  ]
}

Unfortunately, I need to represent this graph in HTML. I need a javascript library that can lay out each of the nodes as <div>'s using top/bottom/left/right positioning so I can draw the edges between them.

I tried writing my own javascript graph library, and boy was that a bad idea. I'm not a good web dev.

So yospos: how do I position <div>s according to a graph? tia

# ? Jun 6, 2013 19:37

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

comedy option: have graphviz render it as an image

# ? Jun 6, 2013 19:39

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

so can you use SCons.Scanner to get a dependency tree structure or what, the docs are terrible

# ? Jun 6, 2013 19:47

kmqat: Aug 18, 2008

Otto Skorzeny posted:

comedy option: have graphviz render it as an image

just compile graphviz to javascript, nbd

# ? Jun 6, 2013 19:54

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

salted hash browns posted:

I have a graph theory type question

I have an object that looks like this:
code:
data = { 
  nodes: [
    {name: 'whatevs1', attribute: 'yaws' },
    {name: 'whatevs2', attribute: 'paws' },
    ....
  ],
  edges: [
    {source: 'whatevs1', target: 'whatevs2'},
    ...
  ]
}
Unfortunately, I need to represent this graph in HTML. I need a javascript library that can lay out each of the nodes as <div>'s using top/bottom/left/right positioning so I can draw the edges between them.

or you can find something that will draw the edges

quote:

I tried writing my own javascript graph library, and boy was that a bad idea. I'm not a good web dev.

So yospos: how do I position <div>s according to a graph? tia

have you looked at d3.js.

it's neat http://bl.ocks.org/rkirsling/5001347

# ? Jun 6, 2013 19:55

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

Otto Skorzeny posted:

comedy option: have graphviz render it as an image

Unfortunately, I thought about this :sigh:

but then it looks like poo poo. We need a way to just place the <div>s so they can be styled with CSS and look half decent.

Carthag posted:

so can you use SCons.Scanner to get a dependency tree structure or what, the docs are terrible

you're right the docs look terrible and I don't even know where to begin.

tef posted:

or you can find something that will draw the edges

have you looked at d3.js.

Drawing edges from node1->node2 is easy. I mean if we can find something that will do both great.

D3 looked promsing, but the force layout (the one that you linked) is way overkill for what we're doing. Maybe we can strip out all the physics stuff and just have it render the nodes/edges? I dunno I'm not good with this stuff.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:00

titaniumone: Jun 10, 2001

salted hash browns posted:

Unfortunately, I thought about this but then it looks like poo poo. We need a way to just place the <div>s so they can be styled with CSS and look half decent.

you're right the docs look terrible and I don't even know where to begin.

Drawing edges from node1->node2 is easy. I mean if we can find something that will do both great.

D3 looked promsing, but the force layout (the one that you linked) is way overkill for what we're doing. Maybe we can strip out all the physics stuff and just have it render the nodes/edges? I dunno I'm not good with this stuff.

yes you can use d3 just to do the layout and svg rendering

d3 is great and probably what you want, use it

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:07

Squinty Applebottom: Jan 1, 2013

another vote for d3 is amazing

you don't need to do all that force poo poo. it makes poo poo like what you want to do super easy

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:28

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

salted hash browns posted:

Unfortunately, I thought about this but then it looks like poo poo. We need a way to just place the <div>s so they can be styled with CSS and look half decent.

you're right the docs look terrible and I don't even know where to begin.

Drawing edges from node1->node2 is easy. I mean if we can find something that will do both great.

D3 looked promsing, but the force layout (the one that you linked) is way overkill for what we're doing. Maybe we can strip out all the physics stuff and just have it render the nodes/edges? I dunno I'm not good with this stuff.

GraphviZ and dot

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:28

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

prefect posted:

builds are supposed to be horrible; otherwise it would be harder for me to find work

if your build is horrible ur doing something wrong like not using maven properly.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:32

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

I wrote a java wrapper around graphviz to generate svg graphs.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:33

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

polpotpi posted:

another vote for d3 is amazing

you don't need to do all that force poo poo. it makes poo poo like what you want to do super easy

yeah d3 seems to be the way to go here. Trying to find some decent examples of static graphs in D3.

I've found this [static force graph in D3][http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/1667139] that is kind of where I need to go, but not totally there yet.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:42

MeruFM: Jul 27, 2010

chrome crashed trying to load that image

i think something went bad

# ? Jun 6, 2013 20:58

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

upgrade your browser to IE10 and try again

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:05

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

MeruFM posted:

chrome crashed trying to load that image

i think something went bad

works for me

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:09

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

can you pass d3 a .dot or some other common graph file cause while it might be nice to have a graphing tool that isn't an external process, its not worth it if I'd have to deal with a bunch of javascript.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:12

Squinty Applebottom: Jan 1, 2013

Shaggar posted:

can you pass d3 a .dot or some other common graph file cause while it might be nice to have a graphing tool that isn't an external process, its not worth it if I'd have to deal with a bunch of javascript.

no

also javascript is the best. its a scripting version of java, youre favorite lang

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:17

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Jerry SanDisky posted:

the nightmare i was talking about was caring about build systems, not specifically scons

right now one of our components at works has a build process that goes like this:

1. build tool from source
2. fetch variable number of files from network location to parse
2. use tool to parse files from step 2 and output variable number of headers
3. use headers from step 3 to build component

scons makes it easy for us to mix the imperative (get some stuff, parse some stuff) and the declarative (make a list of dependency nodes from the parse results, add them as a requirement for component foo)

scons makes doing that really really easy so if we can manage/tolerate the slowness then its a net gain for us but who knows how it will work out

it doesn't matter what tool you use to build a palace of poo poo. you're still the poop king

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:28

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

polpotpi posted:

no

also javascript is the best. its a scripting version of java, youre favorite lang

my favorite thing about javascript is how it has nothing to do with java.

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:30

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

polpotpi posted:

no

also javascript is the best. its a scripting version of java, youre favorite lang

javascript is terrible and if you cant just give it a preexisting graph and have it build it itself then its worthless.

Shaggar fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:32

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Shaggar posted:

if your build is horrible ur doing something wrong like not using maven properly.

i figured out recently that using maven to tar up static poop and put it in artifactory is really ez. now we have a unified build/deployment process for html/css/js/php/java. it fuckin kicks rear end

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:32

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

D3 TRIP REPORT :siren:

So I'm a poo poo terrible javascript programmer and in ~1hr got this having never used D3 before:

so this looks like the way to go. back slaps all the way around. special shoutout to tef, titaniumone and polpotpi who said to use this in the first place.

next: learning what all these things mean. Where can I learn more about charge, linkstrength, friction, etc and other graph terms?

edit: god damnit i can't get these things to stop stepping on each other :arghfist:

javascript

salted hash browns fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 6, 2013

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:49

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

idk but those are generally only terms used for graph layout engines, not graph theory

# ? Jun 6, 2013 21:53

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

gucci void main posted:

@ID_AA_Carmack: The lack of strong typing in lisp is freaking me out, even in tiny programs. Writing an industrial program like this seems... unsound.

common lisp has (optional) strong typing and (optional) static type checking for that strong typing

what horrible lovely lisp is carmack using

# ? Jun 7, 2013 00:09

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

prefect posted:

maven?

and is scons particularly bad or something? i've never used it

scons is basically "we heard you like building code, so we put code in your build scripts so you can build code while you build code." it is a nightmare to troubleshoot.

as an added bonus, it is written in python, so it's hilariously, mindblowingly slow. like, build scripts that can take as long as the compiler itself. oh, and have fun even getting it to run on your target platform.

# ? Jun 7, 2013 00:11

titaniumone: Jun 10, 2001

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

scons is basically "we heard you like building code, so we put code in your build scripts so you can build code while you build code." it is a nightmare to troubleshoot.

as an added bonus, it is written in python, so it's hilariously, mindblowingly slow. like, build scripts that can take as long as the compiler itself. oh, and have fun even getting it to run on your target platform.

here are the laffs i was looking for

ty

# ? Jun 7, 2013 00:36

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

basically maven and autotools are acceptable build systems. everything else is horrible trash

# ? Jun 7, 2013 01:06

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

is autotools the same as autoconf

# ? Jun 7, 2013 01:09

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

autotools includes automake and libtool in addition to autoconf, both of which are also horrible. especially libtool.

# ? Jun 7, 2013 01:10

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

I don't really have much experience with build systems. I mean i've used them to build stuff other people made, but for my stuff ive either just used Makefiles, or no build system (for python and stuff)

# ? Jun 7, 2013 01:16

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:15

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

Shaggar posted:

javascript is terrible

# ? Jun 7, 2013 05:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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