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Zeitgueist posted:I don't believe this is even addressed at all in the mains series, but it looks like it is in the new trilogy starting with Forge of Darkness. Oh, dang, I didn't know that. I knew it took place way in the past, but a focus on elder gods? That is super rad. I'm working through Return of the Crimson Guard right now, and it's actually kind of impressive how much ICE's writing improved from Night of Knives to this one. Still not too sure where the plot is going, but I've liked what I've read so far.
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May 31, 2013 00:01
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Zeitgueist posted:I don't believe this is even addressed at all in the mains series, but it looks like it is in the new trilogy starting with Forge of Darkness. Which is pretty much the reason for my current reread. I didn't want to get into Gods 101 and not recognize anything.
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May 31, 2013 00:02
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apophenium posted:Oh, dang, I didn't know that. I knew it took place way in the past, but a focus on elder gods? That is super rad. I'm working through Return of the Crimson Guard right now, and it's actually kind of impressive how much ICE's writing improved from Night of Knives to this one. Still not too sure where the plot is going, but I've liked what I've read so far. It's not so much explicitly a trilogy about elder gods, that I can tell. However, at lots of point sin MBotF, stuff that happened huge amounts of time in the past is referenced. The Kharkhanas trilogy covers that past. Some of that is elder gods, some of that is Tiste, some of that is warrens.
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May 31, 2013 00:23
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apophenium posted:Oh, dang, I didn't know that. I knew it took place way in the past, but a focus on elder gods? That is super rad. I'm working through Return of the Crimson Guard right now, and it's actually kind of impressive how much ICE's writing improved from Night of Knives to this one. Still not too sure where the plot is going, but I've liked what I've read so far. Yeah I don't think it's really focused on the gods, just on what happened a long time ago with the Tiste, etc... But as a consequence, I understand you find out bits about elder gods.
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May 31, 2013 00:47
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Scott Bakula posted:Urko mentions after seeing them move he had been going about the rebuilding of the skeleton all wrong and would need to knock the wall down and start again from what I remember. Yeah, but that was just from the way they were standing and balancing their weight that he realized his big lizard would probably have a similar stance. I don't think - I could be wrong, though I don't think there's anything that makes it explicit - that they were KCCM. Just small lizard corpses they found that stand on two legs like birds do. Or some dinosaurs. Or KCCM. But I got the impression that they were just small lizard corpses.
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May 31, 2013 00:49
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So after a while away from the series I just picked up the Forge of Darkness and so far it's been really good. The first meeting between Rake and Brood was worth the price of admission for me.
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May 31, 2013 01:12
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Blurb is up for Assail, the next (and apparently final?) ICE novel:quote:About this Book Source
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Jun 2, 2013 08:14
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Just what we needed, another 'Traveller' type character.
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Jun 2, 2013 08:21
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Yeah, I really wish ICE would stop with all that mysterious stranger bullshit. Kallor in Blood, Bone and Jungle was just sooo lame. Still, the whole book was a real let down. Throne, Sceptre, Orb had the same problem with Malachai etc etc... It's really annoying and lazy.
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Jun 2, 2013 13:52
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dishwasherlove posted:Just what we needed, another 'Traveller' type character. My hunch is that the 'mighty champion' is Traveller, since he's been in most of the other ICE books and fits that (very vague) description.
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Jun 2, 2013 14:13
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dishwasherlove posted:Just what we needed, another 'Traveller' type character. That seems pretty obviously to actually be Traveller.
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Jun 2, 2013 14:44
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It's loving Kyle, dudes. Last we saw of him he was going home to Assail after fighting with the Malazans using a white-bladed sword. And 'Traveller' is currently occupied with (Orb Scepter Thorne ending spoilers) leading the Seguleh.
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Jun 2, 2013 19:19
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Kyle seems really boring so far in Return of the Crimson Guard. Make me care about him, ICE, drat you!
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Jun 2, 2013 19:48
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By all accounts Kyle has a great set of mustachios
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Jun 2, 2013 20:07
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Well, I wasn't expecting Dust of Dreams to end how it did. I'm rather glad there is no wait to read The Crippled God.
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Jun 2, 2013 22:36
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apophenium posted:Kyle seems really boring so far in Return of the Crimson Guard. Make me care about him, ICE, drat you! I'm near the end of the book and it reads like a transcribed campaign, complete with characters dropping in and out because their player couldn't make it this week. Also, Kyle turns up in my head like a young, gay biker John Travolta who is allergic to asking questions or something, I dunno.
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Jun 2, 2013 22:46
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rejutka posted:I'm near the end of the book and it reads like a transcribed campaign, complete with characters dropping in and out because their player couldn't make it this week. Also, Kyle turns up in my head like a young, gay biker John Travolta who is allergic to asking questions or something, I dunno. Oh there, was a bit of a throwaway scene earlier in the book. Chapter 3 I think. About a Primogenatrix and someone saying something about Jaghut. It seemed really out of place... Does that get fleshed out a bit later on? I gotta admit I had no idea what was going on in that scene, nor did I get its relevance.
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Jun 2, 2013 22:50
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That seems like set-up for a later book. The Primogenatrix was the bit where some Crimson Guard busted the gently caress out of magic underground prison jail with stone shields and other badass poo poo, no?
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Jun 2, 2013 22:54
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rejutka posted:That seems like set-up for a later book. The Primogenatrix was the bit where some Crimson Guard busted the gently caress out of magic underground prison jail with stone shields and other badass poo poo, no? Yeah it was totally rad, but I just couldn't put it into context much with the rest of the stuff, other than Crimson Guard.
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Jun 2, 2013 23:21
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apophenium posted:Yeah it was totally rad, but I just couldn't put it into context much with the rest of the stuff, other than Crimson Guard. The call went out amongst the Brethren and the old crew is getting back together (or trying to). I presume it'll be touched on in later ICE books. Still not enough Iron Bars, mind.
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Jun 3, 2013 00:05
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I'm going to be starting my first reread tomorrow, and I intend to try my hand at blogging the experience. Is there a good wiki or reference available on the Internet for me to get things straight as I read? I've already read through once, so I'm not terribly concerned about spoilers, but it would be handy to have something to keep me from getting lost in all the words.
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Jun 5, 2013 00:18
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uh zip zoom posted:I'm going to be starting my first reread tomorrow, and I intend to try my hand at blogging the experience. Is there a good wiki or reference available on the Internet for me to get things straight as I read? I've already read through once, so I'm not terribly concerned about spoilers, but it would be handy to have something to keep me from getting lost in all the words. Follow Tor's reread?
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Jun 5, 2013 08:11
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Reading Return of the Crimson Guard will have been worth it just for the scene of Surly kicking rear end. Still can't say I'm 100% with Esslemont's writing. He seems to depend a lot on regular old swears (poo poo, gently caress) a lot more than Erickson. It kind of takes me out of it a bit.
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Jun 7, 2013 03:01
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I'm about half-way through Stonewielder at the moment and it is a pretty marked improvement over Crimson Guard. Still the occasional brain fart but they tend to be a half paragraph, tops. Plus a guaranteed hilarious character.
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Jun 7, 2013 03:11
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Leospeare posted:Blurb is up for Assail, the next (and apparently final?) ICE novel: Finally. Both for finding out about Assail, and for the final novel by ICE . One can hope at least I've been literally waiting 10 years to find out what happened to Silverfox and the T'lan Imass. They just disappear at the end of aMoI and are not seen for the rest of the series.
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Jun 7, 2013 14:01
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Illuyankas posted:It's loving Kyle, dudes. Last we saw of him he was going home to Assail after fighting with the Malazans using a white-bladed sword. And 'Traveller' is currently occupied with (Orb Scepter Thorne ending spoilers) leading the Seguleh. Yeah, it's Kyle. He has Osserc's sword though I never felt like he was a 'mighty champion.' Kyle is probably the most interesting character in Stonewielder after being horribly boring in RotCG, though, likely because he was described from other characters' points of view. Stonewielder is probably the most disappointing Malazan book. The Crimson Guard has never stopped being boring. I find it really hard to care about them. Also, ICE usually has at least one plot in every book that goes nowhere, has no real connection to the rest of the book, and could be completely cut without losing anything (the army in the jungle, the half Thel Akai in Stonewielder, OST is the best ICE book and doesn't reall suffer from this as much)
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Jun 7, 2013 17:24
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OST suffers instead from the fact that nothing makes sense and barely anything about the main plot is explained. ICE would rather play coy about who various characters are and what they are doing. Seriously what the gently caress is the Tyrant?
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Jun 8, 2013 01:10
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bigmcgaffney posted:OST suffers instead from the fact that nothing makes sense and barely anything about the main plot is explained. ICE would rather play coy about who various characters are and what they are doing. The Jaghut Tyrant like from GotM?
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Jun 8, 2013 01:59
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apophenium posted:The Jaghut Tyrant like from GotM? Nah, the BAFTA Tyrant almost certainly isn't a Jaghut.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:25
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Isn't the Tyrant from GOTM the cool Jaghut in that house thing from now on? Reese, Reose, Rose.. something or other
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Jun 8, 2013 02:37
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Raestes. I love Jaghuts and their sense of humour.
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Jun 8, 2013 02:58
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I've yet to meet a Jaghut I didn't like.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:02
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drat this thread. I was looking for something new to read and picked up the first book on a chance, and have just finished the second. Both started slow (though the second less), with me pushing myself the first half of each and then being unable to stop reading for the last three or four hundred pages. I've been staying up at all hours of the night poring over each branching plotline, getting a few hours of sleep each night because of it. By the end of Deadhouse Gates I was as goddamn emotionally invested in Coltaine's march as the historian was, and those scenes interspersed with Kalam's pirate ship adventures and assassin wars through the streets of Malaz City was baller as hell. The ending to the second book seemed really abrupt, though. Each group spends the better part of the book in pursuit of their destination, both Fiddler and Kalam to Malaz City, Duiker to Aren, and Felisin to who cares. And then, upon reaching these places things that seem incredibly important seem to start happening very quickly without any of the drawn-out, lingering moments that the rest of the book thrives on. The Empress essentially info-dumps Kalam in the span of a couple of pages, and then Fiddler's group arrives and then they literally all get teleported by a deus ex machina who essentially says "Oh hey guys have your various happy endings I guess!" I mean, maybe there's more to it in later books, but Gardens of the Moon (though obviously rougher in terms of basic writing) wraps up most of it's plotlines very nicely while spending a few scenes setting up all the sequel-bait. Deadhouse Gates does this a little, particularly with the Felisin v. Tavore setup that I have a hard time feeling strongly about but mostly it just seems like the author hit page 700 and went "Oh drat this book is getting long as fuuuck, better start wrapping this poo poo up." I would love to be told I'm wrong without any overt spoilers, though it's forgivable enough; I'm willing to give a lot of leeway to a series with lore that seemingly runs so deep and multi-layered that it makes the usual fantasy players look like babytown frolics. I already have Memories of Ice ready to go; I was a little disheartened by reading the cast list at the beginning to see Kruppe remains conspicuously absent, however 
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Jun 12, 2013 09:42
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Kruppe is in Memories of Ice with some really memorable scenes, and while I really liked all of Deadhouse Gates any disappointments will be forgotten once you get to Memories of Ice because it is amazing and probably most people's favorite novel of the series.
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Jun 12, 2013 14:59
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Wolfsheim posted:I would love to be told I'm wrong without any overt spoilers, though it's forgivable enough; I'm willing to give a lot of leeway to a series with lore that seemingly runs so deep and multi-layered that it makes the usual fantasy players look like babytown frolics. Basically, most of the book shave 1 or 2 story lines that are central to the book, and a host of others that may or may not be resolved anytime soon. The Chain of Dogs is really the primary storyline of that novel, and that does have appropriate climax and tragic ending. The Felisin storyline continues on, and Fiddler is a main protagonist who's story continues through the entire series. quote:I already have Memories of Ice ready to go; I was a little disheartened by reading the cast list at the beginning to see Kruppe remains conspicuously absent, however You'll have to learn to deal with characters you like disappearing for entire books. It's just how the author rolls.
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Jun 12, 2013 17:57
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I've started reading Return of the Crimson Guard in an attempt to get through the ICE novels. I read Night of Knives a few years ago and didn't really get the criticism directed at ICE. Granted, it was mediocre compared to any of Erikson's work, but it didn't strike me as actively bad the way it apparently did a lot of people. RotCG on the other hand is just downright brutal in spots, and most of the rest is quite dull. Really the only parts that are interesting so far are the scenes that involve Malazans (especially those wacky, irreverent marines.) If I weren't already invested in the series due to Erikson's books this might be only be the second fantasy series that I would stop reading after one book due to disinterest (the first being Wheel of Time.)
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Jun 14, 2013 01:20
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Try and stick with it if you can. It's got a pretty good ending at the very least and some consequential stuff happens that doesn't get revealed in Erikson's series. I also wasn't as enthusiastic about RotCG as some other people are here when I read it, but I found Stonewielder to be another step up for ICE in terms of writing and I'd rate Orb, Scepter, Throne as one of the better books in the entire Malazan series.
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Jun 14, 2013 01:34
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I took a short break between reading Dust of Dreams and starting The Crippled God. I can't remember the specifics in the final battle for some reason though. Can anyone sum it up for me? I remember The K'chain Nahruk attacking and Ruthan Gudd doing something. Quick Ben trying to attack knowing he'd fail and something involving Icarium but my mind is really blank on it.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:04
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:The Crimson Guard has never stopped being boring. I find it really hard to care about them. Also, ICE usually has at least one plot in every book that goes nowhere, has no real connection to the rest of the book, and could be completely cut without losing anything (the army in the jungle, the half Thel Akai in Stonewielder, OST is the best ICE book and doesn't reall suffer from this as much) Yeah the Crimson Guard were really squandered on ICE, they seemed so interesting on the surface reading about them in Erikson's books, Bars was great for example and then became utter poo poo in the ICE stuff.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:28
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Holy poo poo, just finished Memories of Ice. I gotta be honest, the first 2 books were pretty good but they weren't "the greatest thing I've ever read" or anything. Memories of Ice though, wow, what an amazing book. I really feel like there was just a point, sometime after the battle of Capustan where Steven Erikson's writing just noticeably picked up, and everything became magical and incredible. Seriously, the ending was absolutely amazing. I almost cried for the enormous sacrifice of Itkovian and how all the people reacted, and losing Whiskeyjack was awful. However, knowing the Malazan series (especially in the epilogue where they brought back Duiker) and the ominous web of sorcery in the Bridgeburners' funeral pit, I'm feeling that their whole story isn't quite over. So let me just make sure I have all of this right, before I continue on forward: Togg and Fanderay are the two wolves who were lovers and have finally been reunited. Togg was trapped in Toc's chest (I don't know how I am JUST realizing how similar their names are as I type this) and when he fell on the pole while Mok and Tool fought, he freed the wolf. The two wolves are in their own reality inside of the Mhybe's dreams. Is this reality a "warren" of sorts? Do all gods live in the dreams of sleeping women? Since K'rul was present for a lot of the Mhybe's life (Kruppe's dream, and the final entombment), does that mean that her dreams are part of his blood, if it is truly a warren? Also, Burn confuses me a little. I understand that she's asleep, but I usually see years like 1163 Burn's Sleep or something, and some of the cultures and creatures in the series are hundreds of thousands of years old. What happened in 0 Burn's Sleep, or the time before that? Is she asleep in another reality, similar to the Mhybe? Or should I not worry about all of this since it'll eventually get answered? Thanks!
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Jun 20, 2013 04:58
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