|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:And yeah, really happy with Grand King and think it's the best long term value. Dungeon Crawler will be great initially but after a while interest in the PvE side of things is going to wane. It could be the equivalent of a single player card game that has built in trading and coop for many players. edit: I'm not saying to bet on that happening, but it's certainly a potential thing that could happen. Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jun 7, 2013 |
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 20:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 13:04 |
|
|
If PvE is anything like Shandalar was, I will spend months playing it exclusively.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
Khorne posted:If they properly roll out PvE content and tie it into the game I don't see this happening. People love pve significantly more than pvp, and cards offer a very appealing angle to that type of player. The collecting angle, the low demand on attention angle, the "I built that" angle that pve decks will most likely allow given just how many broken interactions there are, and the potential to get that one money drop or "geared up" for a specific deck to counter a specific dungeon or raid. The design space for pve is vast, and TCG players in general severely underestimate its appeal. Especially because magic lacks PvE and Hex is something of an MTG clone. Yeah, you might be completely right. I just think the PvE side is likely to get less attention for a few reasons: 1) The company and the game's history are mostly focused on PvP (even accounting for Cory's history as the inventor of "raid decks" and so forth). 2) The money for this game is going to come from people buying booster packs of PvP cards. PvE is free hit, PvP is the drug being sold. So it seems likely more developer time will go to the product itself rather than the gateway. 3) There aren't any artificial blocks to prolong raid content -- there aren't any raid timers, etc. So the hardcore players are going to BURN through the PvE content pretty quickly. Which is fine and by design -- the whole idea is they get bored with that and try the PvP game -- but it means the value of PvE is going to be limited. Don't get me wrong Dungeon Crawler is still a great value, a year of free drafts is great and Adar is right that there *will* be a valuable secondary market for the PvE gear. It all kinda turns on the degree of corporate focus Crypto has on PvE. I guess it's hard for me to evaluate that because even when I was playing MMO's I was more PvP oriented.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, you might be completely right. I just think the PvE side is likely to get less attention for a few reasons: I don't think they will neglect PvE at all. They have stressed time and time again that they are building a fun and flesed out PvE experience, I doubt they will neglect it after stressing this so much. Building a healthy large community should be far more important to cryptozoic than short term profits. If this game attains a healthy community, the vast majority of its players will not be hardcore players. A game where one moment you can be fighting someone across the globe with your cards, and then the next fighting with your friends against some tough goal is great gameplay contrast. Constant quality PvE content can lead to players feeling fond of their account/accomplishments, which can lead to paying real money for PvE stuff. I imagine that if PvE doesn't net cryptozoic large revenue, then at least it should subsidize the cost which is worthwhile for creating a large community.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
So, I was kind of shocked no Producers dropped at the last minute. They got really close to 2.5 million.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
Captain Capitalism posted:So, I was kind of shocked no Producers dropped at the last minute. They got really close to 2.5 million. They actually picked a producer up in the last hour or so. And the countdown stream said that slacker backers will count towards stretch goals, so they'll hit 2.5 eventually.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:03
|
|
|
Re: PvE, part of my calculus is that the PvE market dwarfs PvP in every single genre out there and this goes triple when spending real money. PvP will probably drive the game, but the majority of players will be PvE and so will the majority of the secondary market. Bobbin Threadbear posted:I don't think they will neglect PvE at all. AH sales are a major revenue stream in this model and if PvE gets -any- traction the AH is guaranteed to be majority PvE, so that's a large percentage right off the bat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:34
|
|
|
So I pledged DC tier as a Canadian. It let me sign in to Amazon Payments using my existing Amazon Account. Didn't realize my dirty Canadian credit card wouldn't work. Now what? I can't switch my pledge to Paypal, but that seems to be my only option. I just want to give you my money, people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:41
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbear posted:I don't think they will neglect PvE at all. Yeah, the core premise of Hex is that it's an MMO, not just a digital cardgame with matchmaking.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:50
|
|
|
Crosswell posted:So I pledged DC tier as a Canadian. It let me sign in to Amazon Payments using my existing Amazon Account. Didn't realize my dirty Canadian credit card wouldn't work. Now what? I can't switch my pledge to Paypal, but that seems to be my only option. I just want to give you my money, people. E-mail the Cryptozoic people they'll probably work with you, I'm sure they want your money.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:51
|
|
|
Oh, I did. Just nerves given I thought this was a done deal and I know cryptozoic staff isn't going to be the fastest resolving a billing conflict right now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 21:58
|
|
|
Weird, I had no problem using a dirty Canadian visa card to pay for my pledge through Amazon.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:05
|
|
|
Maybe contact your bank? Could be fraud protection acting up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
Yeah, I called my bank the first time it failed. They didn't see any attempted transactions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:21
|
|
|
Crosswell posted:Yeah, I called my bank the first time it failed. They didn't see any attempted transactions. Did you happen to grab up one of the spots in the last second? I've heard that if you take up a spot with negative availability (e.g. the something like the '51st' Dragon Lord I saw thrown around in the forums) in one of the limited tiers, Kickstarter won't take it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
No, I bit the bullet last week when there were 500+ slots left.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:35
|
|
|
Captain Capitalism posted:So, I was kind of shocked no Producers dropped at the last minute. They got really close to 2.5 million. Just because they didn't drop, doesn't mean they'll pay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:37
|
|
|
Crosswell posted:Yeah, I called my bank the first time it failed. They didn't see any attempted transactions. Try amazon then. Or try the bank again in an hour. You should have a few days to iron things out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 22:41
|
|
|
 I didn't think about the currency conversion thing ahead of time so it cost me a little more than I wanted to pay but overall I'm super-pumped to get playing - but as with all Kickstarter projects, instead it's now time to play the waiting game...
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 23:22
|
|
|
Adar posted:Re: PvE, part of my calculus is that the PvE market dwarfs PvP in every single genre out there and this goes triple when spending real money. PvP will probably drive the game, but the majority of players will be PvE and so will the majority of the secondary market.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
InternetJunky posted:I think it's a bit different in this game. I wouldn't exactly call two people playing cards PvP in the traditional sense of the phrase. Personally, every reason I hate PvP in other games is invalid for Hex. Eh. I mentioned something about this on the official forums. Launch day, a brand new player decides to take his starter deck and go PvP with it so he clicks Quick Match.. and now he's facing some guy with Three Grand Kings. Now, if that's not a gank, I don't know what is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
BenRGamer posted:Eh. I mentioned something about this on the official forums. Except that triple grand king will have been in beta and they'll probably just let him carry his matchmaking rating over. So he'll never see the new player in matchmaking unless he's god awful, and then it's not really an issue and the newbie gets to wonder how the gently caress that guy with the fancy sleeves lost so bad.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 00:02
|
|
|
That's really an issue of most TCG's and not just Hex having awesome kickstarter rewards. I could buy a starter deck on MTGO and i'm not going to be competitive against people who spend hundreds of dollars on boosters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 00:15
|
|
|
This is why I'm really looking forward to booster drafts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 00:22
|
|
|
BenRGamer posted:Eh. I mentioned something about this on the official forums. Many of the reasons that turn people off from PvP in typical MMOs will be eliminated in Hex just by nature of the game, but the biggest factor will not be. What is that factor? People are dicks and enjoy being dicks to other people in a competitive environment. People will still be dicks in Hex. There'll be name-calling, harassment, general rudeness, utter lack of sportsmanship, etc. I'm sure Cryptozoic will do their best to keep the peace, but it's a losing proposition. If you do PvP, you're absolutely certain to run into some number of people who are utter and complete assholes and are quite happy to display that fact to you. Players who only do dungeons don't have to deal with that, and even if the dungeon encounters are assholes you know it's not personal because, good as Hex's AI may or may not end up, it's not going to be sentient. Edit: In other words, I do agree that PvE will almost certainly be at least as popular and probably more popular than PvP. It likely won't have the same ratio as in WoW or other mainstream MMOs, but I would be very, very surprised if there ends up being even 2 PvP-exclusive players per PvE-exclusive player. Zurai fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jun 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Zurai posted:People are dicks and enjoy being dicks to other people in a competitive environment. One time I saw Rinski get n bombed in a draft, and I think he got the guy banned that night? I've had more conversations with players going ouch, I drew so poorly. Yeah man, that sucks. Then he wishes me good luck or maybe talks about his deck. Anyway ganking is generally someone inflicting unbalanced pvp on a player doing pve. If you're rushing into pvp and you expect to win everything out of the gate it's a rude awakening, but I'd hardly call that a gank or an issue of game design. Feels like this game will coax people into pvp by luring them in with either pve, or a promise of a magic like draft experience for a saner amount of money. In either case I don't think anyone is getting "ganked".
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 00:49
|
|
|
My favorite Magic term is "Luckstack" when I run weenie/rush decks like drawing up a shitload of common goblins is some magical star-aligning moment that only occurs when lady luck finds it favorable. And I get it a lot in magic communities. A hell of a lot. Magic is one of the better communities, but boy howdy there are some childish motherfuckers in it. I think the innate patience required to play well weeds out a lot of the more hotheaded people but they're by no means rare.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 00:53
|
|
|
One thing MTGO has that I don't know if Hex is planning on is a large number of dedicate solid customer service reps. This is one of those things companies overlook.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 01:27
|
|
|
Foma posted:One thing MTGO has that I don't know if Hex is planning on is a large number of dedicate solid customer service reps. This is one of those things companies overlook. Yeah, that's a good point. There are going to be MMO growing pains -- there will be bugs in the first launch, there will be CS issues, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 01:55
|
|
|
Foma posted:One thing MTGO has that I don't know if Hex is planning on is a large number of dedicate solid customer service reps. This is one of those things companies overlook. They will probably outsource that to a 'call center' type setup and give 'em a wiki type resource. I cant imagine them doing nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 01:59
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, you might be completely right. I just think the PvE side is likely to get less attention for a few reasons: One of the things you're overlooking is that every new PvP card also functions as a new toy for playing PvE with. But yes, in terms of MMOs, I would imagine that Hex will skew more PvP-heavy than anything that's not explicitly an open PvP gankfest like Eve or Darkfall, in part because "PvP" will just be playing a TCG against other people, which has after all been the default method of playing these games since Magic came out back in the early 90s. But that's not the same as PvP being the main game or the most popular mode, which I very much doubt will be the case for most players. Certainly it won't be for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 02:28
|
|
|
I'm curious to see how they handle people disconnecting during a match, especially tourney's or booster drafts. Personally, I dislike letting people back into matches after they get d/c'd, as it encourages people to pull their connection once the match starts going south (I'm looking at you With Authority!). It sucks if you legitimately get d/c'd during something big, but how often does that actually happen? More than one way to handle it, and the "reconnect in 30 seconds and we'll continue the match" method is probably the best. I take it we'll be waiting 2-3 weeks for them to get their funding in hand at least before we get alpha access. Eager to give it a whirl, and The Waiting Game doesn't come with any kickstarter bonuses. Any deck types that have really peaked peoples interest? Dwarves seem like they'll have good long term potential to grow with. Drawing more cards, making artifacts cheaper, and artifact creation cards are likely easy things to get use out of in further expansions. Inspiration seems like a long term boon too, but I'd like to see a mono-element inspiration deck in action that might be a bit faster than the multi ones we've seen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 02:31
|
|
|
thiswayliesmadness posted:It sucks if you legitimately get d/c'd during something big, but how often does that actually happen? More than one way to handle it, and the "reconnect in 30 seconds and we'll continue the match" method is probably the best. Judging from my time spent playing League of Legends, at least once a night, and it needs a reboot of the modem to fix it. That takes 2-3 minutes. Have I mentioned that I hate Comcast and hate government-enforced cable company monopolies?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 02:38
|
|
|
thiswayliesmadness posted:I'm curious to see how they handle people disconnecting during a match, especially tourney's or booster drafts. Personally, I dislike letting people back into matches after they get d/c'd, as it encourages people to pull their connection once the match starts going south (I'm looking at you With Authority!). It sucks if you legitimately get d/c'd during something big, but how often does that actually happen? More than one way to handle it, and the "reconnect in 30 seconds and we'll continue the match" method is probably the best. I don't think a 30 second reconnect timer is ever going to fly, its not like a normal match in a game where if you get booted then no harm done. People are paying real money to participate in these tournaments and if you disqualify them for being disconnected there are going to be some majorly pissed people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 02:44
|
|
|
The people who are pulling their plug to spite the opponent in a game they're losing aren't going to come back to the game anyway (or if they do, they'll be at a disadvantage on the timer or whatever, assuming it does the smart thing and follows MTGO's generally good timer system) so how is prohibiting reconnects going to prevent ragequits?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 03:08
|
|
|
I remember they specifically talked about having a robust reconnection system in some interview or other - I think the figure thrown around was three minutes, but that could be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 03:18
|
|
|
thiswayliesmadness posted:I'm curious to see how they handle people disconnecting during a match, especially tourney's or booster drafts. Personally, I dislike letting people back into matches after they get d/c'd, as it encourages people to pull their connection once the match starts going south (I'm looking at you With Authority!). It sucks if you legitimately get d/c'd during something big, but how often does that actually happen? More than one way to handle it, and the "reconnect in 30 seconds and we'll continue the match" method is probably the best. * Modem crashes * Computer crashes * Program crashes * WiFi a 30 second timer does nothing for all except program crashes. I hope it's a 5 minute window.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 03:20
|
|
|
30 seconds was what they had in Chron X way back n' what I was used to, so just what I quoted. Admit it's not really a good amount of time to reconnect, especially if you have to go all out and reboot your modem each time. It was an issue in Tourney's during With Authority! because someone would get into a match, get stomped early and pull the plug. Log back in with enough time to restart the match and possibly screw over your opponent. They really didn't do much to counter it besides add a 'disconnect %' underneath their w/l/d record so you'd have a good idea who was doing it regularly. But those same people could just create a new account and trade all their cards to it so... Just something I've been dicked over on other online TCG's and hoping to not have to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 03:26
|
|
|
thiswayliesmadness posted:I'm curious to see how they handle people disconnecting during a match, especially tourney's or booster drafts. Personally, I dislike letting people back into matches after they get d/c'd, as it encourages people to pull their connection once the match starts going south (I'm looking at you With Authority!). It sucks if you legitimately get d/c'd during something big, but how often does that actually happen? More than one way to handle it, and the "reconnect in 30 seconds and we'll continue the match" method is probably the best. I would be really surprised if we get access before September.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 03:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 13:04 |
|
|
Yeah I have absolutely hated every game that won't let me reconnect to a multiplayer match when my Internet shits itself. Everyone I know has also had problems with being disconnected on a regular basis at some point or another.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2013 03:29
|
|
