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fanpantstic posted:SO CLOSE! I don't think it's the path, I think it's the lake. Whoa! That is close! I wasn't even looking at the lake in the older picture. In the newer one I was thinking of trying to match its northern shore with the weird folds in the guy's hat in the picture, but I ditched that when I saw the the northern shore was smoother back then. The Places des Nations is just south of there on the other side of the road. Maybe it works with the "rows" bits early in Verse 2? No idea about the "jewels" bit, though. At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one  Also, I don't remember if it came up in rune-chat, but look at the symbol for 67 Expo:  You can pull out the "P," "7," "X," (minus the bars making it a roman numeral)and "|" separately (which could be the bars in the lapel that make it a roman numeral there).
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Jun 8, 2013 04:18
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fanpantstic posted:SO CLOSE! I don't think it's the path, I think it's the lake. Cask 9 So now I'm trying to match this up to a verse... Verse 6 Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold (used to be a POW camp?) Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds (Swan lake) Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 (There was a film about Montreal released in May 1913?) Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended (the two arms of the collar define a pretty small section of the island. or, there is a little island next to the lake that has 2 bridges) Below the bar that binds (i think this is referring to a bridge, though there are 3 in the area) Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. (Hard to get a look at what buildings are around...) I don't know about 1913 or Edwin/Edwina, or if this verse has been tied to another location more strongly. fanpantstic fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 04:21
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Montreal was associated with racing earlier via the checkered pattern, and there is a F1 racetrack on the other World's Fair island. It was built in 1978 and renamed in 1982 (the year the book was published) after Gilles Villeneuve, who died in a crash. "Fair" is capitalized in that poem.
Corek fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 04:26
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MilwaukeeeinTier posted:That's probably a generic clue. If you look at the solved puzzle images, you'll find there's a lot of clues to get you to the general area. For instance, on the Cleveland puzzle, Terminal Tower can be seen -- but that's 5.5 miles from where the treasure was actually found. I don't know, the typical view of City Hall is from the front showing the bell tower in all its glory. A view from the rear like that is odd and odd things usually have significance. I reviewed all of the verses and in the others nothing leaps out as a starting point for Milwaukee.
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Jun 8, 2013 04:27
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fanpantstic posted:Cask 9 I think people were using the bottom bit at least to refer to a statue of Abraham Lincoln. I can't remember what city they paired it up with. But anyways: Between two arms extended -- This could be the two bridges going east and west right by the lake. Below the bar that binds -- At the base of the short stretch of road joining the two bridges. Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand -- Buried in the shore on the south side of the lake? Waits the Fair remuneration -- Interesting the Fair is capitalized... isn't World's Fair also use for the Expo? Or are those separate events? Edit: Looks like Corek above also saw this!
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Jun 8, 2013 04:41
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Edit: The road next to that lake is Einstein Ave (All the World's Fair roads were named after eminent people. There's also a Macdonald Road right next to it, maybe named after the first prime minister of Canada, although that road doesn't appear to be there when Expo 67 took place. Einstein published his first paper in 1901 (birth of the century) and made a breakthrough on general relativity with Marcel Grossman in 1913. On Einstein Ave, under the bridge, near the lake?
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Jun 8, 2013 04:43
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Corek posted:Einstein published his first paper in 1901 (birth of the century) and made a breakthrough on general relativity with Marcel Grossman in 1913. Yes, that makes sense. I've been looking for century/1913 stuff and getting all convoluted, but that seems fairly straight forward. I feel like it needs to be more specific. It looks like the shoreline of the lake has changed a lot over the years.
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Jun 8, 2013 04:47
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Macdonald road was present in '67, although it didn't go all the way around the island. John A. Macdonald was a defense lawyer ("where law defended") before his political career. This is a little out there, but he had a poofy hairstyle kind of like the man in the Cask 9 painting. Einstein also did, but it looks less like it. Edit: Century is probably more of a reference to the expo being the centennial celebration of Canada, after it was founded by Macdonald and others. Corek fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 04:59
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fanpantstic posted:Yes, that makes sense. I've been looking for century/1913 stuff and getting all convoluted, but that seems fairly straight forward. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Plan_souvenir_officiel_Expo_67_%28recompos%C3%A9%29.jpg Here is a map of the Ile Ste Helene from the Expo with the exhibits. I thought I'd look at the ones that were around the lake. Check out 310... the Netherlands! That was the country connection for this cask, right? More digging...  e: http://expo67.ncf.ca/expo_netherlands_p6.html The white house? I think I'm stretching too far here. fanpantstic fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 05:05
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The Netherlands pavilion had a metal lattice pattern, although it kind of looks like checkers on that map. Exhibits included a wave pool and a film called Bird's Eye View. The sound of water and birds are both in the poem, although the exhibit was closed by that point. There were also plenty of white-colored pavilions around that could be the white house. http://expo67.ncf.ca/floor_plan_netherlands_expo67.html I think we have a lot of evidence for that area of that island at this point. Apparently there isn't much traffic there since a lot of stuff was torn down.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:14
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Corek posted:Edit: The road next to that lake is Einstein Ave (All the World's Fair roads were named after eminent people. There's also a Macdonald Road right next to it, maybe named after the first prime minister of Canada, although that road doesn't appear to be there when Expo 67 took place. Einstein published his first paper in 1901 (birth of the century) and made a breakthrough on general relativity with Marcel Grossman in 1913. I don't think that it matters so much that the road was there when the fair took place, just that it was there when the book was written. That having been said, I bet someone who has been working on the verse in relation to a different city is going to pipe in soon. I don't remember where I saw it when I read through the thread, but it seemed that the second half of the verse was pretty bang on for relating to Abraham Lincoln. Just now, Googling "Edwin and Edwina named after him" brings up Edwin Booth, whose brother shot Abraham Lincoln. It's so tempting to try to apply these lines, though, since it seems they fit here! fanpantstic posted:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Plan_souvenir_officiel_Expo_67_%28recompos%C3%A9%29.jpg Holy gently caress look at 313! Is that the the building on the picture that we've previously been attributing to Habitat 67? It's mirror image, but drat!
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Jun 8, 2013 05:15
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Guuse posted:I don't think that it matters so much that the road was there when the fair took place, just that it was there when the book was written. That having been said, I bet someone who has been working on the verse in relation to a different city is going to pipe in soon. I don't remember where I saw it when I read through the thread, but it seemed that the second half of the verse was pretty bang on for relating to Abraham Lincoln. Just now, Googling "Edwin and Edwina named after him" brings up Edwin Booth, whose brother shot Abraham Lincoln. That's the Austria pavilion. Here's a simpler modern map that might take less time to load but luckily has all the suspect landmarks on it: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Montr%C3%A9al_Expo_67_Site_Map.png
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Jun 8, 2013 05:22
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Guuse posted:I don't think that it matters so much that the road was there when the fair took place, just that it was there when the book was written. That having been said, I bet someone who has been working on the verse in relation to a different city is going to pipe in soon. I don't remember where I saw it when I read through the thread, but it seemed that the second half of the verse was pretty bang on for relating to Abraham Lincoln. Just now, Googling "Edwin and Edwina named after him" brings up Edwin Booth, whose brother shot Abraham Lincoln. Looking up Edwin Booth (who named his daughter Edwina), it appears that he was named after Edwin Forrest, who was an actor with no connection to Montreal that I can find. The name Forrest could be a for forest, I guess. Seems like a stretch.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:24
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Corek posted:That's the Austria pavilion. Here's a simpler modern map that might take less time to load but luckily has all the suspect landmarks on it: Yeah. I'm failing badly at trying to crop it out to put a picture up of it, but here's what I was comparing it to:  I still think that building refers to Habitat 67 since that's apparently a famous Montreal landmark (and despite the difficulty in cashing in on the caskets he was supposedly pretty unsubtle about his clues). But it also looks a hell of a lot like the Austria pavilion in the brochure mirrored, so maybe it refers to both? If it's Austria then maybe it reinforces the Germanic rune angle that came up before. Edit: Here's the link again to the full brochure since I'm bad at Gimp. Look at 313 right by the lake... from above it's eerily similar to the blocky building in the puzzle-picture. Also, there seems to be a "giant pole" sticking out of it, which might point to Verse 7: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Plan_souvenir_officiel_Expo_67_%28recompos%C3%A9%29.jpg Guuse fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 05:39
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My wife and I seem to think that the New Orleans image is related to the area around the Sara Lavinia Hyam Wading Pool, which was built when "New Orleans philanthropist, Sara Lavinia Hyams, died in 1914, bequeathing her  jewelry collection, valued at $30,000, to be sold and the profits used to construct a fountain in both Audubon Park and City Park, for the children of the city."http://imgur.com/MdQfMpU <= Note: The figure on the right hand side of the statue is cradling a dog. http://imgur.com/XzEACX4 Also, the flowers look like they may be Daffodils, Latin name Narcissus who drowned chasing his reflection in a pool of water. The moon and dogs head may also refer to the Statue of Artemis and the dog nearby. That area is the only part of the park with dog imagery that we can think of. http://imgur.com/6mrAW5I http://imgur.com/LTXwcQW The clock could represent the Odenheimer Aquarium viewed from above, and we both swear the word "preservation" is written on the overhang by the front door, we'll go by tomorrow and check it out. http://imgur.com/V4iUlUn The jockey would refer to the stables, which are probably less than 100ft from the pool. The giant pole may refer to a flagpole in a field just north of Magazine st. near ace is high may also refer to a tennis court that used to be (what looks like) between the golf course and the zoo. http://imgur.com/EC184y5 The New Orleans Historic collection has a number of old photos of Audubon park that we were looking at, they predate the book by 30-40 years but there's still old landmarks you can look at. Just please don't hammer their server. http://cdm16313.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/CLF/searchterm/audubon%20/field/all/mode/any
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Jun 8, 2013 05:41
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General I haven't tried this yet, but this app may be helpful for analyzing these images. http://plumamazing.com/mac/pixelstick It allows you to easily measure angles and such in images. Worth a shot for comparisons.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:43
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Corek posted:That's the Austria pavilion. Here's a simpler modern map that might take less time to load but luckily has all the suspect landmarks on it:  From the other link above. There's several shots of the Austrian pavilion here.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:58
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Guuse posted:Yeah. I'm failing badly at trying to crop it out to put a picture up of it, but here's what I was comparing it to: Has anyone found any pictures of this from the expo so we could better see the pole? It really does resemble the bldg in the legeater block. e: why yes, it's in the post above....I still wonder about the two "open window" spots on the upper right of the blocky building on the picture.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:59
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If you guys are trying to narrow down what a specific place looked like back in the day there is a possibility you might want to try. When I was looking at that park in Houston from the overhead perspective and noticed the train was gone I remembered how old aviation and military maps were made. You used to get a plane and take detailed aerial shots of the whole country over and over and then these were used to update the topographic maps with new structures and the such. These would absolutely still be archived and available somewhere, not sure who to try in the us. Maybe try the USGS and they might be able to tell you where to buy/access them. Should get you a good quality black and white aerial of the places somewhere in a 2 odd year window either side of 1980.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:59
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Guuse posted:Yeah. I'm failing badly at trying to crop it out to put a picture up of it, but here's what I was comparing it to: I don't think that's Habitat 67. It kinda looks like that, but not really. It's much more complex and "messy", and there's no hole like that in the bottom and there are no domed structures. However.... 
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Jun 8, 2013 06:04
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Houston Still thinking on Houston. I don't think it could have been buried in the zoo, no matter how much people want to think it was in the Children's Zoo. It would have been too hard and too risky to dig there -- the zoo has always been busy and you can't get in late at night without serious breaking and entering and trespass. Doesn't fit with the MO of the others that have been found. Second, I don't think he could have buried it in raw earth. Anyone with any familiarity with Houston knows that the water table is inches below the surface. Digging a three foot hole is going to end up with you having a nice hole full of water. I have to imagine he buried it in a planter or some such thing, much like he did in the Cleveland Greek Gardens. BJG posted:I still like the fountain, and its neighbouring golf course... So, wait. You're BJG, the same BJG here, who put together all the summaries over at lemontiger? I must say, your work has been a huge help in figuring things out. I'm not completely convinced you're in the right spot for the Houston treasure, but I'm intrigued by some of your insight. einTier fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 06:23
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Verse 6 We think the verse is divided into 5 sections as shown below. The word "OR" acts as a delimiter. Treasure Island Intro Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Begin Instructions to find the treasure Harken to the words: We thought maybe this referred to the intersection of two roads originally we thought it was San Francisco and thus considered the 101 Freeway and Lincoln Freedom at the birth of a century Edwin and Edwina helped found Actors Equity guild in May 1913 in New York City. Hence, we think this poem is for New York City Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him As discussed, this guy is not very deep, so this is probably a literal description of the location of the treasure. This portion basically tells you where to dig Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand.
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Jun 8, 2013 06:24
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Flewdefur posted:Verse 6 Treasure Island, eh?  I love it. I feel like that is some of the strongest evidence for the treasure being on the island (assuming this verse goes with this picture and all that jazz). So there was a Canadian artist named Edwin (Holgate) and he was the "eight" of the Group of Seven (a group of artists). Don't know if that's relevant or not. He has one painting up in the Chalet du Mont-Royal, but that is clearly off the island.
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Jun 8, 2013 06:53
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einTier posted:I don't think that's Habitat 67. It kinda looks like that, but not really. It's much more complex and "messy", and there's no hole like that in the bottom and there are no domed structures. It is reminiscent of the style of Habitat 67 though. From what I read earlier in the thread, the author of this book thought he was being pretty unsubtle and it seems like Habitat 67 rather than a pavilion that was torn down (maybe -- we don't know yet what the island looked like in the 80s) years before the book was written would be the attention grabber when looking at this picture. Heck, a couple people in this thread seemed to immediately grab on to it. I'd reckon that a native Montrealer would probably put those two things together before anything else in the picture. The lamp post at the George Stephens Club thing is pretty much a given at this point I guess. That seems to be a really unique piece of art and nobody has brought forth a similar example so I'd think that really must be what the picture is referring to. A couple pages back I posted: Guuse posted:Well, let's take a stab at it with a different verse, then! Rather than going north at De La Commune St W, if we go all the way east to Habitat 67 before turning north, we end up at pretty much the exact place we're talking about on Ile Sainte-Helene. If we stick by Verse 7 then we still have the following lines to spare: In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. I'd actually like to see the square that contains the "legeater" superimposed on the actual "Golden Square Mile" just to see where the hoof points. Just by eyeballing it I'm guessing due east, but it would be neat if it pointed toward where we're looking on the south end of Ile Sainte-Helene.
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Jun 8, 2013 06:54
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T.Worth posted:If you guys are trying to narrow down what a specific place looked like back in the day there is a possibility you might want to try. I was linked this site by the head of the Houston zoo's pr department, it's a library that the parks use to store archival material. You can look up and request box numbers and they'll pull them once you arrive. http://www.houstonlibrary.org/julia-ideson-building
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Jun 8, 2013 06:57
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GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:I was linked this site by the head of the Houston zoo's pr department, it's a library that the parks use to store archival material. You can look up and request box numbers and they'll pull them once you arrive. http://www.houstonlibrary.org/julia-ideson-building I'm also considering a drive down to Houston just to talk to the Hermann Park Conservancy. They seem to know an awful lot about the park and its history. I can't get access to the Q4T forum (at least, not yet), and I'm wondering why everyone thought it was in the Children's Zoo for so long. I really don't see the connection.
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Jun 8, 2013 07:28
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ohnorobot posted:My wife and I seem to think that the New Orleans image is related to the area around the Sara Lavinia Hyam Wading Pool, which was built when "New Orleans philanthropist, Sara Lavinia Hyams, died in 1914, bequeathing her Looks like the perfect location for buried treasure. Note that pres servation is french for 'near conservation' so that could be ruled out. The moon and the dog is reference to the werewolf that resides in the zoo. and the mask fits nicely in the center of the park with the trail around it. quote:My wife and I seem to think that the New Orleans image is related to the area around the Sara Lavinia Hyam Wading Pool, which was built when "New Orleans philanthropist, Sara Lavinia Hyams, died in 1914, bequeathing her Fountain...children...take a look at this. The clock shape with the arc on the top in the picture seems to match the north part of the park http://goo.gl/maps/SDbJ7 Also note the mask face, does it fit the child statues? The jockey looks like it might fit the statue. The ball things in the clock hand are they reference to a pattern here? EDIT: Lucy bakewell Audubon could be the face on the mask (perhaps the eyes and nose but not the mouth?)  I've never set foot on US soil, but thanks to google maps this past week I have spent massive amount of time in New orleans, and have come to truly appreciate the history and culture of the place (and shrubbery) Bloke fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 07:48
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Bloke posted:
but it doesn't say pres servation. you're adding a space and (more importantly) adding an S in the middle there. It doesn't say pres servation, it says preservation.
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Jun 8, 2013 08:24
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CronoGamer posted:but it doesn't say pres servation. you're adding a space and (more importantly) adding an S in the middle there. That's true - but this is a puzzle there may be something else which adds the S. Also Audubon is a conservation park, too close to be missed out because of a slight alteration. Bloke fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 08:28
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Cask 9 - Montreal / Verse 2 Variant Guuse posted:Whoa! That is close! I wasn't even looking at the lake in the older picture. In the newer one I was thinking of trying to match its northern shore with the weird folds in the guy's hat in the picture, but I ditched that when I saw the the northern shore was smoother back then. I'd suggest that At the place where jewels abound = "The place where you'll find the casque...". After all, the original reward was a jewel. Looking at the seats/benches(?) in the bottom picture, not the steps on the side, it looks like 15 rows to the ground, counting the mezzanine. Keeping in mind the 67 expo logo is an ancient symbol for man, linked together(namesakes meeting?) representing friendship around the world, the verse says: Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site.  There's information about the movement and current whereabouts of the logo rune sculptures here: http://www.worldsfaircommunity.org/topic/12676-anyone-know-if-this-sculpture-is-still-on-site/ Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours To complement the verse, how about Alexander Calder's Man, originally titled Three Disks:  I only did a quick search. There may be pictures out there that provide a better angle and match, but it is right next to the lake/neckline on Ile Sainte-Helene. Incidentally, the area between the lake and the Calder sculpture was the location of The Netherlands' expo pavilion, tying into the theme nation of the image.  Calder's initials on the sculpture:  Merlot Brougham fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 11:21
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San Francisco / Verse 2 In Golden Gate Park, there's a statue of Robert Burns who wrote the poem "A Red, Red Rose" that opens with O my Luve's like a red, red rose/ That's newly sprung in June. This ties in with the image containing references to June, Golden Gate Park, and the rose. A wikipedia entry on bogle (a gnome-ish creature mentioned with fairies in a Burns' poem) mentions the word "bocan" as a cognate of "bogle" and "puck" (a fairy). There's a Bocana St. in SF that is between Bernal Heights Park and Holly Park - joining both. Gnomes admire/ Fays delight/ The namesakes meeting/ Near this site. Edit: Also, just noticed the barred window/door in the image looks more like something from Folsom than Alcatraz (there's a video called "the other side of folsom prison" on vimeo that shows them decently - http://vimeo.com/4560681) - this fits into Bernal Heights Park being bordered by Folsom St. The yin yang symbol in the image may refer to a mountain or hill as wiki mentions each side of the yin yang are sometimes explained as the sunny and shady side of a mountain. The A on her tunic might stand for Alabama St that touches the park a small bit. The stretched out SF image on page 26 of this thread even kind of resembles http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/6808885070/ For more hints in the verse - friends hang out in parks during the daytime, fairies are said to live in mounds (Bernal Heights Park looks like a giant mound), and gnomes under the earth. Maybe the place where jewels abound is Esmeralda Ave that borders the park or Esmeralda Corridor on the other side. Boxcar fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 12:43
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ANother possible location in Audubon park http://goo.gl/maps/IZyoQ Might be nothing, but with a bit of imagination you can spell POLE with the layout of this statue area (I think there used to be an E there look at the top end), and I'm wondering of the clock hand is related If it is, then one giant step could mean crossing "st charles crescent" (which is a tramline - center of clock?) to the university Bloke fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 12:43
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I'm really starting to think that the Edwin/Edwina thing is going to just be a dumb reference to a physical booth at a location.
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Jun 8, 2013 12:55
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Another possibility is that the New Orleans image is related to Jackson square Stone wall's door. Not far away High posts are three May be referring to the 3 steeples of the St. Louis cathedral The moon in the image could be a reference to the park on the Mississippi called the "Moon walk" after mayor Maurice "Moon" Landreau built in 1976, and could match "A giant step" as a moon landing reference. Also Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention may all refer to the fact that in front of the French quarter, the Mississippi flows east and then north before heading south. It seem he would want you to go south towards the river, which is "running north".
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Jun 8, 2013 13:46
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ohnorobot posted:Another possibility is that the New Orleans image is related to Jackson square Stone wall's door. Yeah, most of that was mentioned in previous theories. Nothing is discounted yet though.
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Jun 8, 2013 14:42
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Re: Montreal, I quite like the Saint Helen's Island theory. I once tried to imagine the Biosphere as the opal in the hat, though it wasn't very convincing. This image is for the "Lowland Gnomes". The biosphere is a notable geodesic dome, and The Secret paperback features a character called the "Geodesic Gnome". (I've got a note for P158 in the book, which I no longer have.) In general anagrams aren't very helpful since you can make anything you like out of them, though "Gnomes admire" seems so strange I did wonder if it might be an anagram. I just noticed: "G dome remains". I get the impression that in 1982 the remains were all you'd see after it got burned out, though it's since been renovated. Re: The Dutch exhibit for Expo 67, the roofline of the house on the left reminds me of his raised collar.  BJG fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 14:42
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NYC I've been staring at picture 12 for a while, and spotted something else. The backwards "41" that people claim does not actually seem to be that. There's an extra shape to the left of it, and when combined, it all makes more of a stylized "S", like a corporate logo of some kind:  (Again, this is with the picture rotated with the top to the left) As usual, I don't know if I'm just seeing things, so others working on the picture please take a look and offer your own opinions.
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Jun 8, 2013 16:43
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Here's what I get (just playing slightly with levels to bring out the contrast): 
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Jun 8, 2013 17:02
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Deteriorata posted:NYC The backwards 41 seems like a pretty big stretch to me. I see an S like you do, or some sort of swan-like figure.
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Jun 8, 2013 17:04
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I'd agree it was a stretch if it wasn't next to the 74, or if there weren't other things in the picture pointing to nyc (whose lat / long can be rounded to 41, -74)
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Jun 8, 2013 17:06
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