terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

prefect posted:

is this a religious thing, or was there some guy named church who thought them up?

nah its encoding numbers in lambda calculus.

i made my list in order of importance btw

# ? Jun 9, 2013 17:57

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# ? May 13, 2024 15:31

nrook: Jun 25, 2009; Just let yourself become a worthless person!

wait, what's the difference between p-adic numbers and p-ary numbers except that you get cool algebraic properties from p being a prime

like, 13.5 in binary is

code:

1 * 2^3 + 1 * 2^2 + 0 * 2^1 + 1 * 2^0 + 1 * 2^-1

and 13.5 as a 2-adic number is...

code:

(1 * 2^4 + 1 * 2^3 + 0 * 2^2 + 1 * 2^1 + 1 * 2^0) * 2^-1

which... seems pretty similar

this poo poo is cool though

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:03

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

I feel like floating point should be higher on the list. Its probs more important than arbitrary precision, since for a lot of common applications arbitrary precision doesn't matter and floating point math is a thing computers do better. Like graphics and poo poo.

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:06

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

i knew a guy who at university tried to rewrite jquery for a coursework. instead of using jquery.

that's a decent way to learn what's going on in jquery

just never, ever use the rewrite you create

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:09

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

prefect posted:

just never, ever use the rewrite you create

well the thing was he wrote it to use in his project, which actually had nothing to do with rewriting jquery at all

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:25

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

prefect posted:

that's a decent way to learn what's going on in jquery

just never, ever use the rewrite you create

every-javascript-library.txt

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:28

uG: Apr 23, 2003; by Ralp

if javascript is so great why isnt anything important done with it?

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:31

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

prefect posted:

is this a religious thing, or was there some guy named church who thought them up?

it's because functional programmers believe in the separation of church and state

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:35

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

nrook posted:

wait, what's the difference between p-adic numbers and p-ary numbers except that you get cool algebraic properties from p being a prime

like, 13.5 in binary is
code:
1 * 2^3 + 1 * 2^2 + 0 * 2^1 + 1 * 2^0 + 1 * 2^-1
and 13.5 as a 2-adic number is...
code:
(1 * 2^4 + 1 * 2^3 + 0 * 2^2 + 1 * 2^1 + 1 * 2^0) * 2^-1
which... seems pretty similar

this poo poo is cool though

2's complement is just restricting 2-adic integers to a finite number of bits and considering the leftmost bit infinitely many repetitions of that bit.

edit: which sounds like a really douchey thing to say but really those are the rules, its how it works, blah blah blah

Ronald Raiden posted:

I feel like floating point should be higher on the list. Its probs more important than arbitrary precision, since for a lot of common applications arbitrary precision doesn't matter and floating point math is a thing computers do better. Like graphics and poo poo.

probably

FamDav fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 9, 2013

# ? Jun 9, 2013 18:46

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

tef posted:

it's because functional programmers believe in the separation of church and state

# ? Jun 9, 2013 19:03

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

tef posted:

it's because functional programmers believe in the separation of church and state

# ? Jun 9, 2013 19:27

nrook: Jun 25, 2009; Just let yourself become a worthless person!

FamDav posted:

2's complement is just restricting 2-adic integers to a finite number of bits and considering the leftmost bit infinitely many repetitions of that bit.

edit: which sounds like a really douchey thing to say but really those are the rules, its how it works, blah blah blah

probably

idgi

11111111 = -1

but as a 2-adic number

...11111111 = sum from 0 to infinity of 2^n = +inf

?

or, wait, never mind--- it's a limit over two variables, not one, isn't it? a "2-adic number" of arbitrary size can be defined as just the limit of a 2-adic number mod 2^k, where k -> infinity

and in all of those guys, the string of all 1s is going to be -1

I think I get it right now but I probably dont, is there a decent paper or something on arxiv I can read to understand this

# ? Jun 9, 2013 19:45

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

http://www.madore.org/~david/math/padics.pdf is a paper

# ? Jun 9, 2013 19:52

Socracheese: Oct 20, 2008

i already learned all that stuff and forgot it welp cya later

# ? Jun 9, 2013 20:02

a_pineapple: Dec 23, 2005

code:

#include <iostream>
int gasthreadbanOp;

for (int posts = 0; n < (1/0); n++) {
	if (posts > 0) {
		gasthreadbanOp = true;
	}
	else {
		cout << "lol\n";
	}
}

# ? Jun 9, 2013 20:26

cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

Socracheese posted:

i already learned all that stuff and forgot it welp cya later

# ? Jun 9, 2013 22:32

uG: Apr 23, 2003; by Ralp

vas0line posted:

code:


#include <iostream>
int gasthreadbanOp;

for (int posts = 0; n < (1/0); n++) {
	if (posts > 0) {
		gasthreadbanOp = true;
	}
	else {
		cout << "lol\n";
	}
}

you didn't declare n idiot

# ? Jun 9, 2013 22:44

Doc Block: Apr 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

prefect posted:

is this a religious thing, or was there some guy named church who thought them up?

I think he means Roman Numerals

# ? Jun 9, 2013 23:34

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

FamDav posted:

if you job a computer these are the representations of numbers you should know

1) binary
2) 2-adic
3) some kind of arbitrary-precision type
3) IEEE floats/doubles
4) church numerals

1 well duh
2 this is some sort of nerdy way to say 2s complement? okay i guess
3 lol we're gonna ignore the first 3
3 ieee754 duh yeah i mean dont need it memorized but you should know it exists and vaguely how it works
4 what the gently caress is this poo poo get out

# ? Jun 9, 2013 23:54

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

if you do any kind of scientific computing or graphics work, knowing how to write numerically stable code makes you less awful.

and church numerals are:

0 = \x.\f.x
1 = \x.\f.f x
2 = \x.\f.f (f x)

etc.

# ? Jun 10, 2013 00:20

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

FamDav posted:

if you do any kind of scientific computing or graphics work, knowing how to write numerically stable code makes you less awful.

and church numerals are:

0 = \x.\f.x
1 = \x.\f.f x
2 = \x.\f.f (f x)

etc.

what the gently caress is this

do you really consider that a valid explanation

lmao

# ? Jun 10, 2013 00:52

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Bloody posted:

what the gently caress is this

do you really consider that a valid explanation

lmao

how about they are an embedding of the integers into the lambda calculus using the properties of function application

lets describe the number N as the result of N applications of a function f to a value x. so

0 = λf.λx.x
1 = λf.λx.f x
2 = λf.λx.f (f x)

i even looked up the lambda symbol so it looks nice

lets write another function λa.λb.λf.λx.a f (b f x), which is plus. this works because if a is f applied A times and b is f applied B times, then this applies f A+B times. wow, whoa

we can write multiply by λa.λb.λf.λx.a (b f) x because this is the application of b (which is the application of f B times) A times

i leave exponentiation and subtraction as an exercise to the reader

# ? Jun 10, 2013 01:15

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

FamDav posted:

how about they are an embedding of the integers into the lambda calculus using the properties of function application

# ? Jun 10, 2013 01:29

weird: Jun 4, 2012; by zen death robot

lol if you've never seen Church numerals before

# ? Jun 10, 2013 02:09

uG: Apr 23, 2003; by Ralp

i wonder how many people have seen both church numerals and the genitalia of the opposite sex??

# ? Jun 10, 2013 02:20

Posting Principle: Dec 10, 2011; by Ralp

uG posted:

i wonder how many people have seen both church numerals and the genitalia of the opposite sex??

Lots, usually on the same monitor

# ? Jun 10, 2013 02:22

Plastic Snake: Mar 2, 2005; For Halloween or scaring people.

Jerry SanDisky posted:

Lots, usually on the same monitor

Nice!

# ? Jun 10, 2013 02:38

Doc Block: Apr 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Jerry SanDisky posted:

Lots, usually on the same monitor

# ? Jun 10, 2013 07:13

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

Jerry SanDisky posted:

Lots, usually on the same monitor

# ? Jun 10, 2013 07:20

Moist von Lipwig: Oct 28, 2006; by FactsAreUseless; Tortured By Flan

Jerry SanDisky posted:

Lots, usually on the same monitor

# ? Jun 10, 2013 07:31

Zaxxon: Feb 14, 2004; Wir Tanzen Mekanik

Jerry SanDisky posted:

Lots, usually on the same monitor

NICE

# ? Jun 10, 2013 09:26

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

FamDav posted:

how about they are an embedding of the integers into the lambda calculus using the properties of function application

lets describe the number N as the result of N applications of a function f to a value x. so

0 = λf.λx.x
1 = λf.λx.f x
2 = λf.λx.f (f x)

i even looked up the lambda symbol so it looks nice

lets write another function λa.λb.λf.λx.a f (b f x), which is plus. this works because if a is f applied A times and b is f applied B times, then this applies f A+B times. wow, whoa

we can write multiply by λa.λb.λf.λx.a (b f) x because this is the application of b (which is the application of f B times) A times

i leave exponentiation and subtraction as an exercise to the reader

and this is useful because

# ? Jun 10, 2013 10:51

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

Bloody posted:

what the gently caress is this

do you really consider that a valid explanation

lmao

lmao if you can't figure this out on intuition alone

oh wait im in the wrong thre\d

# ? Jun 10, 2013 10:55

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Church encoding (Unary basically) is sort of useful in theorem proving systems since they're naturally inductive and so are linked lists

They're are really useful for type level naturals to allow safe indexing and the like.

p-adic numbers are exotic to most mathematicians so lol if you think joe programmer needs to know them

the correct list is

1. Binary numbers in 2's complement
2. IEEE 754-2008 and its algebraic properties
3. Church numerals if u really need them

# ? Jun 10, 2013 13:18

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

qntm posted:

and this is useful because

It's been a while since I've read on that so I might be wrong, but Church numerals are basically equivalent to Peano arithmetics, which are proven to be complete and undecidable and also mean that you can express pretty much any logical system you want with it. It basically yells you lambda calc can be equivalent to any other similar logical system (ZF set theory and whatnot).

It's fairly important to guys like Douglas Hofstadter who love that poo poo, and mathematicians that used it in whatever proof system they wanted to make stuff progress, I guess.

# ? Jun 10, 2013 16:04

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

The correct answer is to make a blog post about it and throw it up on Hn.

# ? Jun 10, 2013 16:57

MeruFM: Jul 27, 2010

Before knowing all that, programmers should first learn to shower at least once every other day.

But that's not gonna happen so onwards with the masturbatory number conversions. I think hex is pretty cool and also make pretty colors.

# ? Jun 10, 2013 17:02

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

MeruFM posted:

Before knowing all that, programmers should first learn to shower at least once every other day.

But that's not gonna happen so onwards with the masturbatory number conversions. I think hex is pretty cool and also make pretty colors.

at least once a day or get out

# ? Jun 10, 2013 19:46

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

look its obviously
1. reasonable suggestion
2. extended learning
3. lol wacky poo poo from my discipline that im too blind to look above

also count hex on your fingers and make logical operations e-z

# ? Jun 10, 2013 21:31

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# ? May 13, 2024 15:31

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

if this is the case I recommend that being able to implement peano numbers or the equivalent of church-numerals from pi-calc is a good basic requirement in order to be good at concurrent/distributed/actor stuff.

# ? Jun 10, 2013 22:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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