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Magres posted:I mean, it is six years old, games usually die sooner than that. I don't like what they've done with the HUNDRED BILLION WEAPONS crap either and I do think it is at this point killing the game, but I think they refined the idea with DotA (it's all Hats now, every single one of the ~100 heroes has like seven or eight item slots that are all cosmetic) and would go that route if they released a TF3, because it makes for a better and more sustainable game. I originally thought that as well, but Counter Strike has been going strong, recently got a makeover, and is still prominent despite being a much more "realistic" and therefore limited game than the Looney Tunes that is Team Fortress 2. Team Fortress 1 had great longevity, and I do not feel that TF2 is living up to that legacy, and I think that we both know why.
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Jun 8, 2013 21:13
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Back when GTA4 was still relatively new, my friend and I would play online on the 360 now and again, but I couldn't stand it. Discussions about the pros and cons of GTA4 aside, I wasn't a big fan of it, and didn't really like online console multiplayer in general, at the time. But my friend wanted to play so we sort of compromised. I played only to amuse myself - not to win - and he could try to win despite me or join my madness. We quickly discovered fun ways to mess with everyone. Setting the game area to the Island of Happiness and then swimming to the mainland when nobody's looking became a mainstay of our gaming sessions. We'd grab whatever vehicles and bring them back to the action just to piss everyone off. Eventually, we discovered a giant steam engine type deal near... I want to say the prison. It's been awhile. This boat became my reason for playing GTA4 online. My friend be damned, I just wanted to boot up an IoH game and swim to that giant, rusty hunk of junk. Every time I got it, I would slowly chug my way over to the Island of Happiness and crash full-speed into the ramp on one of the docks. This ramp is there for some story mission or other, but what it is not there for is a giant, slow, awful, sad, rusty excuse for a ship. As soon as it pushed up onto the ramp, a large radius around it would slow down to an unplayable crawl. Players on the opposite side of the island would remain unaffected, but everyone else was my wretched plaything. Eventually, most of the players would quit out, leaving only one or two teams of two players each remaining. At least one of these players (usually all of them) would finally notice the boat and come over to beat my brains out in rage. But I had discovered something else that they didn't know. My boat would never make it onto the actual dock via the ramp. I had to hold the gas trigger just to keep it pressed onto that ramp. These players would run right up on the dock to shoot me. That's when I slammed into reverse, which, by whatever demonry this game employed, would blink me and my boat out of existence and make us reappear thirty feet in the air, directly overtop of the dock - dropping us on top of those who would dare oppose Dream Boat Willy and STYX, his trustworthy aquasteed. That's really the best part, but one game continued on awhile after that. Since everyone else had quit from the lagstorm, the game was down to my friend and I, and one other duo. The two of us swam to the mainland and I grabbed a helicopter while he grabbed a sports car. We then proceeded to not engage the others at all for the duration of the game. Which was about 25 more minutes of me flying in slow circles around the entire map. They found military-grade helicopters and tried shooting me down, but with all of my practically-drunken swerving, they only landed a few hits the entire game. I think they got my friend a few times, and ultimately won the match. But I had won a moral victory. That was a 30-minute span of their life that they would never get back. They gave that up to beat me, and I never even wanted to win.
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Jun 8, 2013 22:09
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That reminds me of the most fun I've ever had in GTA4: GTA race in times square. For reference, GTA4 had several online modes like regular racing, deathmatch, cops n robbers and so on. GTA race was a racing mode with the caveat that you could leave your car and screw around on foot. The times square track was essentially a small figure 8, which just so happened to have several city buses parked along the sides. The typical round would involve me totaling some guy in the first turn in our 1%er supercars (since nobody ever wanted to drive anything else), then picking up a bus and parking it across the street. You haven't lived until you see 5-6 hot rods come tearing down the road at 100mph only to madly swerve and crash to avoid slamming into this big dumbshit bus blocking the track. The best part was driving back and forth to catch the lucky few who caught on and would try to drive around.
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Jun 8, 2013 22:22
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JustJeff88 posted:I originally thought that as well, but Counter Strike has been going strong, recently got a makeover, and is still prominent despite being a much more "realistic" and therefore limited game than the Looney Tunes that is Team Fortress 2. Team Fortress 1 had great longevity, and I do not feel that TF2 is living up to that legacy, and I think that we both know why. I think we can grant that Team Fortress 2 really broke new ground, and benefited greatly from doing so. It was a new system of game, taking elements from other genres (MMOs mainly) and implementing them in a way that actually really worked. Their methods had flaws, and the way they did it might not have been ultimately sustainable, but I'm willing to give a lot of leeway given how they were trying things that have never been done before, clearly learned from it given Dota 2's systems, and it really opened TF2 up to a wider audience. TFC might have had great longetivity, but its playerbase couldn't hold a candle to what TF2 could manage with the support it got.
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Jun 9, 2013 04:57
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It's been an busy couple of days in Star Trek Online. Bit of background first, Star Trek Online, is, as you can imagine, a Star Trek MMO that went Free to Play last year. It's F2P system is actually incredibly fair, and it's quite easy for a free account with a bit of patience and understanding of the game's mechanics and currencies to get anything they want out of the ingame money store without actually spending real money. The majority of the prominent goons playing have taken this route to space riches, and the goon fleets of Shutup Wesley, Starfleet Dental, and Nerds of Prey are very well off by the standards of most fleets. Of course, being a free star trek thing, STO attracts a particular and incredible type of sperg, especially on the role-playing side of things. And they loving hate us. These guys are bad at this game. They are at a level of bad that continually flabbergasts us. Admittedly, STO is a little opaque at first, but there is a wealth of helpful information a few queries on the internet away, and these people are still incredibly bad. If you try to help most of them, they argue and call you dumb. If you demonstrate how your method/build/whatever works better, they call you a hacker or accuse you of exploiting. It's especially prevalent with the RP crowd, the majority of whom claim to be "The youngest graduate of Starfleet Academy/The next Dax host/Worf's lost half-human daughter/A Na'vi" or what have you. If you undermine these people in any way, they will absolutely lose their poo poo. Needless to say, we do it all the time. We run around popular RP zones with bulky environment suits and say we're role playing dentists who are role playing firemen. We go off about dental care and fire safety constantly and drown out the local chat. We point out when ERP'ers are being creepy and ride them about it constantly. As a result, an extremely vocal portion of the player base hates goons with a violent and fiery passion, and they rant and rave about us on the forums constantly. Of course, we don't violate the ToS in any way, are nothing but polite to pubbies both ingame and on the forum (with a few notable exceptions - I'm sure someone posted about Butts in here at some point before) and for the most part just play the game well and have fun. Now that the obligatory infodump is out of the way, a few weeks ago, STO released it's first 'expansion' which allows people to play as Romulans. They're pretty kickass, what with the cloaking and all, and most of thier ships are pretty awesome in terms of stats. Really the only downside is the fact that they have to join up with one of the other two factions (Federation or Klingons) at level 10, which isn't actually a downside at all mechanically and makes sense with the games narrative, if you care about that. Anyway, with Romulans came a whole slew of cash store ships for pubbies to blow real money on while intelligent folks spend their farmed space bucks. And, of course, one of those ships is the mighty D'Deridex, which most people who watched Trek will know of as that awesome looking Romulan ship from TNG. Well, the cash D'Deridex, like most of the cash ships, comes with a special gimmick item that lets you use a special gimmick ability, which in this case is a Projected Singularity Console. This item, amazingly enough, fires a singularity, which travels about eight kilometers in a straight horizontal line from your nose then explodes, doing moderate kinetic damage to anything caught in the blast radius. And it can be used in social zones, where most weapons are disabled. So we got a bunch of goons with D'Deridi together and decided that Deep Space Nine had been infiltrated by hordes of changelings and had to be cleansed. Another vid with a couple of decent angles. Sadly, the poster was not a goon and did not understand the important nature of our work  We'd actually been at this on a smaller scale while we were bored for a few days now, but today was the first time we did it with that many birds and during prime time. Actually getting blown up by the singularities takes a bit of work - they're easy as hell to dodge and don't do that much damage to end game ships, which are the majority of ships at DS9. In fact, we needed martyrs to take off their shields and get blown up on purpose to reliably do any damage to pubbie ships before. On top of that, even if you do get taken out, respawn times in social zones are never greater than three seconds, and STO, being casual as gently caress as far as MMOs go, has literally no penalty for death, whatsoever, unless you are in certain endgame instances - and even then these debuffs can be cleansed for free once you're out of the instance. Despite that, the forums loving flipped. People immediately made a bitching thread that was sadly nuked before I made this post, but one poster in particular, by the name of Sollvax, was so angry and hurt by our antics that he just had to have his posts archived. Sollvax posted:This should be grounds for DELETION Sollvax posted:At least in this case there is clear evidence of griefing Sollvax posted:This is open deliberate MURDER of people who are spawning Sollvax posted:Expell them Now, this was all being posted while we were hanging out at DS9, casually firing off a volley every three minutes and shooting the poo poo with pubbies who thought it was funny. Then a guy named Settak showed up. Now, Settak had a different account handle than Sollvax, but typed in exactly the same fashion and had exactly the same personality as Sollvax himself. If he wasn't an alt (and he was, despite his claims to the contrary) then he was an amazing mimicker. Well, he came in, ranted about murder and cypriots for a bit, then we blew him up. And, as soon as we did - Sollvax posted:I sent a friend to take a look From about this point on Sollvax completely lost his poo poo in the thread, posting all kinds barely-decipherable comments, insulting random posters, and ranting in game chat through his alt about how we were "murdering trolls" and generally making GBS threads up an already shat-up chat. It got to the point where the few people in zone who were also pissed were telling not!Sollvax that there was no way in hell he wasn't Sollvax and to shut up immediately. He had better luck on the forums, or at the very least no one demanded he be quiet, so as a result he went on quite the tirade. Here are a few choice quotes. Sollvax posted:as you refuse to dismiss the people doing this your FLEET must be held accountable On goon behavior, when told that goons tend to grief games when bored and that it wasn't that big a deal - Sollvax posted:I agree and racist griefing as well On SA - Sollvax posted:Its a low rent fan site He also has great ideas for improving gameplay! Sollvax posted:And this is EXACTLY why I called for fleet instances so they can be contained Sollvax posted:If enough of us make a point of condemning it I hope Cryptic will disable it everywhere except pve instances Sollvax posted:or a start disable it everywhere outside of pve OR enable everyone elses weapons And this went on for a few hours, until the thread was silently deleted and that was it. By this time, Sollvax had petered out for a bit, and likely gone to bed, but I'm sure we'll hear more from him tomorrow. There were a few other angry posters in the whining thread that weren't quite as spectacular as Sollvax, and sadly I didn't think to save their posts before the thread was nuked. We did have a single post from one dude, however, that was pretty much inevitable. sonoframon posted:Also... Thinking to myself - I'm sure I can take any of Starfleet Dental's members IRL, where projected singularities have no effect on me 
Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 9, 2013 07:43
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Really, the guy threatening goons in real life is less sad that the guy threatening to beat you up in game. Someone, somewhere, is presumably scared that crazy people from the internet will track them down and assault them. Is there anyone in any game that worries about getting ganked in a game beyond the level of mild annoyance?
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Jun 9, 2013 08:00
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Why does this guy hate me so much? 
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Jun 9, 2013 08:40
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I have to emphasize the fact that people at DS9 were in no way inconvenienced by our actions. You can dock by getting within 9km or so and pushing a button. We were shooting the undock point. Hell, you can even leave the map while dead. These pubbies were getting butthurt over literally nothing. After this idiot showed up, we even had several pubbies who were mad at us reconsider and willingly participate.
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Jun 9, 2013 08:58
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What's this Butts fellow?
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Jun 9, 2013 09:58
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Cleretic posted:I think we can grant that Team Fortress 2 really broke new ground, and benefited greatly from doing so. It was a new system of game, taking elements from other genres (MMOs mainly) and implementing them in a way that actually really worked. Their methods had flaws, and the way they did it might not have been ultimately sustainable, but I'm willing to give a lot of leeway given how they were trying things that have never been done before, clearly learned from it given Dota 2's systems, and it really opened TF2 up to a wider audience. TFC might have had great longetivity, but its playerbase couldn't hold a candle to what TF2 could manage with the support it got. Well said - no argument here. I also used CS as an example despite a middling personal affection for it... I have never really gotten that game and feel it is very limited and repetitive, but it does have legs, as they say. I am just said to see TF2 decay in a way that I feel can be inextricably linked to blatant money-spinning to the detriment of what is best for the game. The unavoidable downside of the decline of any multi-player game is that, even if I am still interested in it, if nobody else is I am hosed regardless. I still like to play the old Might & Magic games, which relatively few people do, but I can enjoy those, in full, by myself even if quite literally nobody else in the world is playing them. A game that is also a social experience is only as good as those who play it.
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Jun 9, 2013 16:58
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Thumbtacks posted:What's this Butts fellow? He died for your autism. Also his head is literally shaped like a butt.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:39
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Here's some old ones of mine loving with pubbies from Wow and Rift (long since forgot the acct passwords). Menial poo poo, but still pretty funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8One2PAAMQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RhduLMt71E
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Jun 9, 2013 23:02
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The best way to grief roleplayers is metagaming: go with a buddy or two to a crowded RP hotspot and start carrying out a casual, out-of-character, fourth-wall-breaking conversation in local chat about the characters around you and their top-secret biographies. It's low effort, extremely high reward, and from a terms of service perspective it's bulletproof. Goons had pretty good success with this in Champions Online following the whole "RPist" debacle. Conversely, the best way to avoid being griefed as a roleplayer is to take whatever dumb crap gets at you and play it straight or at least play it off, which is incidentally one of the first things improv actors are taught (which is basically what roleplaying is in the first place). It just happens pubbies would rather give you death threats instead 
tomanton fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 00:02
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tomanton posted:The best way to grief roleplayers is metagaming: go with a buddy or two to a crowded RP hotspot and start carrying out a casual, out-of-character, fourth-wall-breaking conversation in local chat about the characters around you and their top-secret biographies. It's low effort, extremely high reward, and from a terms of service perspective it's bulletproof. Goons had pretty good success with this in Champions Online following the whole "RPist" debacle. This describes about a third of the time I spent logged on in City of Heroes. I would crash costume contests and look up people's bios and talk in zone chat about how this person or that person was an unimaginative loser.
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Jun 10, 2013 00:21
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Half my time before City of Heroes shut down was running about Pocket D as gimmick characters like "A Sex Deviant" and "Super Spergin' Three". You would be amazed at how mad people would get from this guy flying around doing pushups and assuming the position:  I also spent the last few minutes of the server as "Dongrod Mcphaullus", going so far as to publically speak to a GM with that character.
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Jun 10, 2013 04:12
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TheSpiritFox posted:This describes about a third of the time I spent logged on in City of Heroes. I would crash costume contests and look up people's bios and talk in zone chat about how this person or that person was an unimaginative loser. Breaking the fourth wall when badmouthing characters is a poor man's grief. Bad CoH RPers (and probably CO RPers too, the bad RPers went there after the shutdown) give you enough rope to hang them with anyway. My personal two favorites was playing a drunken lout yelling at a character doing the whole Nice Guy shtick, and like three guys rolling up agents from child services in response to an eight-year-old unattended in Pocket D. Those three weren't even goons, either.
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Jun 10, 2013 04:28
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Really the best way to grief RP servers is to create a character that infuriates the usual role players and stick to it. See how long it takes for them to break character to explode in rage at you.
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Jun 10, 2013 04:30
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Cleretic posted:Breaking the fourth wall when badmouthing characters is a poor man's grief. Bad CoH RPers (and probably CO RPers too, the bad RPers went there after the shutdown) give you enough rope to hang them with anyway. The entire point was my absolute refusal to acknowledge them as anything other than idiots playing a game. The only RP griefs that were ever worth my time were EVE scams roleplaying a recruitment officer.
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Jun 10, 2013 06:21
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TheSpiritFox posted:The entire point was my absolute refusal to acknowledge them as anything other than idiots playing a game. Which is a poor man's grief. Use your ~imagination~ a bit more.
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Jun 10, 2013 11:21
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So, I play The Old Republic, it's a pretty average MMO nowadays. Now, unlike most goons, I rolled on the RP server, Begeren Colony. Normally there are no issues, besides 'sex' on the bar that you report and then walk away from. Well, today I was PVPing, and there is a 'warzone' (battleground) called Huttball. The goal is to carry a ball across a medium sized map and score. Well, I got stuck in a match with a premade of RPers - 7 people who kept stopping to type in character chat stuff to each other, and constantly were getting each other killed. Now, Vanguards get a skill called Harpoon, which is a pull against an enemy target. I decided that since my entire team managed to get killed at one time, the WZ was a lost cause. Normally I'd just quit it there, and requeue, but I was bored of playing PVP anyways. Instead, I started using Harpoon on enemy ball carriers until the enemy team had scored enough points to win the WZ. Not much of a grief on its own, but then I started getting angry messages from the RPers for ruining the game, saying they reported me. So my response was to apologize profusely, and say I was paid a million credits to spend the day ruining any pvp matches against a PVP guild that's imp side. Not only did all of them believe me, but about an hour and a half later, I got a PM from someone who claimed to be from the guild I fingered, saying I was on their KOS list for that.
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Jun 10, 2013 11:32
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Thumbtacks posted:What's this Butts fellow?  He's the guy on the far left. Also, Psycho Landlord left out our super-awesome victory parade on Bajor the night after we purged the Changeling threat from DS9. Kinger fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 13:09
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Dr Pepper posted:Really the best way to grief RP servers is to create a character that infuriates the usual role players and stick to it. See how long it takes for them to break character to explode in rage at you. This is exactly what I did in World of Warcraft. I created a dwarf named Klunk and my common stomping grounds would be finding people doing eRP under the bridges in Eversong woods. For some reason the pubbies didn't like a large bearded dwarf attempting to create a three backed beast instead of the standard two backed beast. The out of character rage was fantastic, to the point that I got blacklisted from the more popular RP guilds.
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Jun 10, 2013 18:47
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Fuzzyjello posted:This is exactly what I did in World of Warcraft. I created a dwarf named Klunk and my common stomping grounds would be finding people doing eRP under the bridges in Eversong woods. For some reason the pubbies didn't like a large bearded dwarf attempting to create a three backed beast instead of the standard two backed beast. The out of character rage was fantastic, to the point that I got blacklisted from the more popular RP guilds.
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Jun 10, 2013 19:21
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I played on a rppvp server for years and hardly ever saw rp. It actually pissed people off more than anything when you did it.
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Jun 10, 2013 19:44
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Yeah. There's only a small handful of WoW RP servers that actually have an active roleplaying community. Nearly everyone who's on RP-PVP servers is only there for the PVP.  And I'll confess that I've had the temptation/desire to come across some uber-dramatic scene where at least one person is lying on the ground, dead or dying, with a huge crowd gathered around them... And tossing in a Party G.R.E.N.A.D.E. (causes everyone in the targeted area to start dancing), Toy Train Set (causes everyone near where it's set down to start making some of the most annoying noises known to man), etc. And I'm a fairly active RP'er, myself.
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Jun 10, 2013 20:41
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I played on an RP server for a brief while and the only RP I saw was a character advertising in Trade channel to cybersex with someone for gold. They were specific about where to meet them, and I think the Hunter pictured below said "alright" in Trade as well, so I went over to try and spoil it for them in third-wheel tradition. Little did I know it was actually an RP sting, leading to this screenshot which capped off a minutes-long yelling session between the two. On his way out the Hunter noticed me and offered to duel me as well, but his e-honour was never restored. I did have the wonderful occasion of destroying an RP wedding twice in one day, but that was on an actual PvP server rather than RP-PvP.
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Jun 10, 2013 21:34
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FactsAreUseless posted:It's even more fun to do the opposite in WoW. Head onto a non-RP server and start RPing loudly and publicly. The nicer and more helpful your character is, the angrier people will get. There was a mage like that on my old server (Stormwind US, Alliance). He used to walk around the big cities hugging people, throwing buffs out at low-level characters, and occasionally posting Bible passages in general chat about how we should be kind to each other and love one another. People HATED him.
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Jun 11, 2013 00:30
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Ghostlight posted:
Oh video games, how you make my life better.
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Jun 11, 2013 00:37
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Ghostlight posted:I played on an RP server for a brief while and the only RP I saw was a character advertising in Trade channel to cybersex with someone for gold. They were specific about where to meet them, and I think the Hunter pictured below said "alright" in Trade as well, so I went over to try and spoil it for them in third-wheel tradition. Little did I know it was actually an RP sting, leading to this screenshot which capped off a minutes-long yelling session between the two. I don't really follow what's going on here.
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Jun 11, 2013 00:41
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I tanked in WoW, and was pretty close to the other tanks. Occasionally, we would grief our own raids by using the /sit emote while we were tanking. Hits against sitting players were guaranteed crits, and would also make the character stand up. With proper timing on incoming attacks, you could get crit before the sit animation even began, leaving the raid none the wiser. Never got called on it, nobody could ever be assed to check the combat logs for crits (which are impossible against a properly geared tank). It was especially fun to do on trivial farm content. WHY IS THE HEALING SO HARD GUYS DID THEY PATCH THIS BOSS OMG
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Jun 11, 2013 00:58
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Chocobo posted:I tanked in WoW, and was pretty close to the other tanks. Occasionally, we would grief our own raids by using the /sit emote while we were tanking. Hits against sitting players were guaranteed crits, and would also make the character stand up. With proper timing on incoming attacks, you could get crit before the sit animation even began, leaving the raid none the wiser. This is now a legitimate strategy and you are encouraged to do this to improve your tank DPS. You weren't griefing, you were just ahead of your time!
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Jun 11, 2013 01:04
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Tsurupettan posted:This is now a legitimate strategy and you are encouraged to do this to improve your tank DPS. You weren't griefing, you were just ahead of your time! It is a sad state of affairs when tanks have to worry about DPS.
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Jun 11, 2013 01:08
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I used to RP grief on WoW like a loving fiend. I posted a couple of these earlier in this thread, but it's been over a year since they were last linked, so here you guys go: A friend and I completely ruin a cabal of lovely, insular roleplayers on Silver Hand. A few stories from our 'RP guild' that really just existed to ruin RP. Wicked Immorality was huge fun back when we were screwing around on Silver Hand. Our approach to grief RPing was to just roleplay the people that you'd rather forget exist. An easy way to make a quick gold back in the day was just to RP walk through a notorious cyber location like Goldshire, and wait for the inevitable proposition, because horny teenagers think the only way you can be immoral is to have kinky sex, I guess. We'd tell people that we were getting bombarded with tells already, so we had to know they were serious about having a good time and ask for money to prove that they were serious. Then we'd collect our hooker money, use the /laugh emote on them, and walk away with their cash. When they sent the hateful tells, we'd simply reply "didn't you see my guild name?" We never had to deal with GMs over this behavior. Either our suckers were too embarrassed to admit they were paying e-gold for e-sex or the GMs thought it was too funny to confront us about it. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jun 11, 2013 |
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Jun 11, 2013 01:09
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Cojawfee posted:I don't really follow what's going on here. If I read it right, he was sneaking hoping to get a peek at some awkward e-sex. Only instead of a lady turning up, it was her enraged e-husband.
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Jun 11, 2013 01:14
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Coolguye posted:
Or, alternatively, it was an unsupported transaction.  (To briefly explain WoW's scam policy: If it doesn't involve an in game item at some point, a lot of the time they tend to declare any trading of money to be unsupported, and won't refund you.)
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Jun 11, 2013 01:58
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SynthOrange posted:If I read it right, he was sneaking hoping to get a peek at some awkward e-sex. Only instead of a lady turning up, it was her enraged e-husband. I was there hoping to grief some RP, but it turned out the RP itself was to grief cyber-johns and funnier than anything I could've come up with to ruin the moment.
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Jun 11, 2013 03:05
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JustJeff88 posted:I originally thought that as well, but Counter Strike has been going strong, recently got a makeover, and is still prominent despite being a much more "realistic" and therefore limited game than the Looney Tunes that is Team Fortress 2. Team Fortress 1 had great longevity, and I do not feel that TF2 is living up to that legacy, and I think that we both know why. Er what, TF2 by now has had twice the lifetime TFC ever got.
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Jun 11, 2013 05:58
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Everyone always forgets about Quakeworld Teamfortress.
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Jun 11, 2013 06:43
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ponzicar posted:Everyone always forgets about Quakeworld Teamfortress. And Fortress Forever for good reason
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Jun 11, 2013 06:54
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Pacra posted:Er what, TF2 by now has had twice the lifetime TFC ever got. They're actually about even right now in terms of total lifespan. From a competitive perspective, TFC peaked about four years after its release, and as far as public servers went, there were tons of active servers and communities well into 2006. Moving forward though, yeah, TF2 will have TFC well-beaten by the time it dies off.
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Jun 11, 2013 07:48
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