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MeramJert posted:What do students in China learn in their political classes? I've been told that they've read excerpts of Marx and Lenin but people don't generally seem to know anything about it. From what little that I remember from the early 2000s, very little. Mostly introductions of the rudimentary concepts in Economics, Marxism, Capitalism and Socialism, governmental stuctures, etcetera, not unlike what you'd find on a western textbook. There are also, of course, significant length devoted to explaining that China is only in the early stages of Socialism, wherein the main internal contradiction, having already eradicated class struggle , is the discrepancy between the growing needs of the people and the society's inability to meet them due to productivity deficiency, mostly caused by the colonial exploitation in the past that left China industrially undeveloped and materially impoverished. They are largely meaningless, however. Like Arglebargle III said, ask a Chinese youth about Marxism, and they would almost certainly draw blank, as for most Chinese high schoolers, politics course serves no purpose other than honing their skill to memorize and reproduce entire paragraphs of words that they neither understand nor care. Adrastus fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jun 9, 2013 |
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Jun 9, 2013 06:09
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Lawman 0 posted:What I really want to know is what a Ph.D in marxist ideology is like in china. His family name is Xi.
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Jun 9, 2013 07:04
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To really blow a Chinese student's mind, tell them that Canada and bunch of European countries also identify as Socialist countries.
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Jun 9, 2013 08:29
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Arglebargle III posted:To really blow a Chinese student's mind, tell them that Canada and bunch of European countries also identify as Socialist countries. I use a tick chart to highlight to students that China is more similar to America than it is to the Socialist countries of Europe - some actually struggle to process this. But then I also refer to English as "our" language when I am talking to my English majors (I am an acolyte of an ultra-orthodox branch of Crystiality) so I am pretty sure that half my students are fairly skeptical about what I tell them anyways. "Our Language" - what a loving lingua-fag I am.
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Jun 9, 2013 10:51
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Try taking your tick-chart to an American conservative internet forum if you want to have some fun.
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Jun 9, 2013 11:02
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Arglebargle III posted:To really blow a Chinese student's mind, tell them that Canada and bunch of European countries also identify as  VideoTapir posted:
Maybe they're just buddies. How's it hangin' Jinping?
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Jun 9, 2013 12:10
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We should start an internet meme of Obama calling Xi "Little Ping" and see how fast it gets harmonized.
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Jun 9, 2013 14:07
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[edit] Ignore me. You know, I think living in China has broken my already shaky grasp of what is and is not racially offensive. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jun 9, 2013 |
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Jun 9, 2013 14:15
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Arglebargle III posted:To really blow a Chinese student's mind, tell them that Canada and bunch of European countries also identify as Socialist countries. In what sense? Are you saying that they identify themselves as socialist? Or do you think they are socialist?
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Jun 9, 2013 16:35
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In my experience most Chinese nationals refer to what we know as 'Communist China' as 'The New China' or 'Modern China'. My guess is that most of their education focuses on that period as one to stop being picked on by other countries and an attempt to regain its stature on the world stage rather than one defined by purely ideological cues. For example I doubt most people don't care about the finer points of full blown communism vs. socialism as defined by Marx. What they would care about is that they stopped bein massacred by the Japanese.
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Jun 9, 2013 16:48
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cloudchamber posted:In what sense? Are you saying that they identify themselves as socialist? Or do you think they are socialist? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model A citizen of Western or Northern Europe would have to be pretty politically confused not to identify their country as a socialist country. Vladimir Putin posted:In my experience most Chinese nationals refer to what we know as 'Communist China' as 'The New China' or 'Modern China'. My guess is that most of their education focuses on that period as one to stop being picked on by other countries and an attempt to regain its stature on the world stage rather than one defined by purely ideological cues. For example I doubt most people don't care about the finer points of full blown communism vs. socialism as defined by Marx. What they would care about is that they stopped bein massacred by the Japanese. What they care about is what they care about, and neither Marx nor the Japanese figures heavily in the minds of the average Chinese citizen. Educational focus shifted from communist propaganda to nationalist propaganda as the party-state's abandonment of communism became impossible to paper over in the 80s and 90s. The last Chinese who could remember the Japanese invasion are just as irrelevant demographically as our surviving WWII veterans. Modern Chinese care* about Japan because they've been told to care about Japan in a concerted campaign through public education and mass media. *a strange kind of caring that only manifests when the government news runs stories about those evil Japanese; 99% of the time they don't care because they've never been to Japan or even seen a Japanese person or even met someone who's seen a Japanese person.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:01
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Arglebargle III posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state As someone from a Western European country no one I know would identify our country as socialist; instead we see the US as basically the Wild West.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:07
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Yeah, we may joke about northern Europe being a socialist paradise but nobody seriously considers any country in Europe to be socialist. Maybe social democratic at best.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:15
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For Americans, anything to the left of Ayn Rand is socialism.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:16
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Oh, semantics. The word socialism doesn't mean the same to an european as to an american or chinese or russian. Communists and social democrats will refer to themselves as socialists, but the meaning is different.
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Jun 9, 2013 17:19
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InspectorBloor posted:Oh, semantics. The word socialism doesn't mean the same to an european as to an american or chinese or russian. Communists and social democrats will refer to themselves as socialists, but the meaning is different. No, it's not semantics it's just knowing what the hell the word means. If I started calling Deng's philosophy "Two Dogs" it wouldn't be right.
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Jun 9, 2013 20:24
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we're not talking about wrong analogies here. Same word, differing meaning, but basically connected on a level. It's not just "knowing what the word means", since that seems to differ quite a bit, depending on the speaker?
Power Khan fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jun 9, 2013 |
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Jun 9, 2013 20:47
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I just read an article about a horrible fire in Hung Hom on Ma Tau Wai Road. It happened two years ago and killed four people in a building that was subdivided all to hell. The crazy thing is, two years ago I was living not far from there and walked down Ma Tau Wai Road pretty often. I wonder why I didn't hear about it until now. Subdividing is an increasingly common practice in Hong Kong where a landlord buys an apartment, which in Hong Kong will inevitably already be pretty small, and then throw up some cheap walls to divide it up into unbearably tiny places to rent out for less money. These places are somewhat affordable to poor people who are either on the waiting list for or don't qualify for public housing. That means these places are full of migrants from the mainland, people who make just slightly too much money, or people simply stuck in bureaucratic hell because the waiting list for public housing is like 350,000 names long and the government's target (which it consistently fails to meet) is to house applicants within three years. Subdividing is also illegal. The government tolerates it because there's no other place for these people to go. But this also means there's no oversight whatsoever. So these people living in subdivided apartments in Hung Hom woke up in the middle of the night with their building on fire, rushed to the nearest exits, only to find those blocked off by subdividing walls. A pregnant woman, an 18-year-old, a six-year-old and a one-year-old died in the fire. Blood on the hands of the real estate market, basically. This city. Oh it could also be blood on the hands of the profiteering, subdividing landlords. They were arrested and charged with failing to comply with orders to remove illegal structures. Eight of the nine landlords pleaded guilty. The ninth died before his court date. Their sentences? Fines ranging from HK$1,200 (US$150) to HK$4,000 (US$500). Way, way less than even one month's rent in one of their subdivided apartments. That's the really sick thing. These subdivided rooms end up being drastically more expensive per square foot of space than luxury sky mansions. It's really straight-up slumlording, apparently including the part where poor people die in fires.
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Jun 11, 2013 09:21
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At what point is Hong Kong going to say, "That's it, nobody can live here anymore?" Or is that just not possible?Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:China's Xi Jinping appears more Maoist than reformer so far I showed my ex this video and she laughed through the entire thing. Xi would be a colossal idiot to try to turn the clock back even a little bit on this front. All that being said, it sucks to see the Chinese Communist party pulling the same "double down" routine that parties almost everywhere else are doing (along with American Republicans doubling down on far-right policy and European parties continuing to shove austerity down everyone's throats in the face of rampant unemployment and other awful problems). It doesn't bode well for anyone.
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Jun 11, 2013 09:58
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Y-Hat posted:At what point is Hong Kong going to say, "That's it, nobody can live here anymore?" Or is that just not possible? Well, that would put downward pressure on housing prices, so no, it isn't possible.
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Jun 11, 2013 10:00
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Hong Kong has a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing going on with housing. Somebody at some point in history taught a Chinese person somewhere in the world that the best way to invest your money is to buy a house. It doesn't matter if you already have a house to live in, buy another one because that's better than having a pile of money or a healthy bank account or equities or entrepreneurship or bonds or exotic derivatives or loans to neighbors or commodities. The only thing that comes even into the same parsec as real estate in the Chinese investor's mind is gold, but it's still a hugely distant number two. So this creates some problems. First, you want to be able to buy a house. So that means a house has to be affordable. The cheaper the better, actually. Let's get those prices down so more people can buy houses. But now that you've got yours, the idea suddenly changes. Real estate is very different from other investments in that it's a really, really bad investment its price goes down. Since odds are your property is mortgaged, and inflation is a thing that exists, you need the price of your new home/investment to go up by a pretty significant amount. Like at least 5% a year. But gently caress that you won't get rich that way. Let's not settle for less than 10%. But wait, there are other people in the world. Some of them are younger or have less money than you, and they don't have a house yet. The fact that house prices have tripled in the last two years means home ownership is in fact a hopeless pipe dream. What does this mean for you? It may be time for you to sell some of your property portfolio to speculators, of course! Should property prices be somehow induced to fall? Should the government take cooling measures? What should be done about those who cannot follow in your footsteps of wealth accumulation? gently caress 'em, of course! You are a Randian superman and a captain of industry, who dared to buy a thing and then do nothing while issues entirely out of your control made it more valuable. Enjoy the fruits of your labors! Yeah I'm mad about this stuff. Basically, for so many people, their wealth is tied inevitably to home prices and they won't tolerate a price drop. It could cause a panic. But at the same time, poor people also believe that their only hope of social advancement lies in exploiting the home ownership path to riches, and so won't tolerate prices being this high. It's a conundrum for sure. My opinion is of course to gently caress the property owners. Homes aren't an investment product and gently caress you if you think they are. They're for living in, you wretched cunts. I'm not anti-rich or anything. I'm not anti-luxury. Buy a couple houses if you want. A vacation home here and there. That's cool. But using a basic necessity of life, shelter, as a way to get rich is pretty scummy to me.
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Jun 11, 2013 10:31
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I am anti-rich and I agree with most of what you just said.
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Jun 11, 2013 10:55
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Bloodnose posted:Basically, for so many people, their wealth is tied inevitably to home prices and they won't tolerate a price drop. It could cause a panic. But at the same time, poor people also believe that their only hope of social advancement lies in exploiting the home ownership path to riches, and so won't tolerate prices being this high. It's a conundrum for sure. It's worse than that because it isn't just the people who want to get on the real estate gravy train but had the lack of foresight to be born in the wrong decade who are hosed; people who don't give a poo poo about that but need a place to store the family they can't have yet get hosed, too.
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Jun 11, 2013 12:02
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Yeah that goes without saying. Although it's definitely part of the Hong Kong/Chinese culture that real estate is a gravy train. When you hear people crying out for affordable housing, there's always that subtext. I'm just really mad at mainland speculators/money launderers for ruining the 2008 financial crisis for Hong Kong. That's what taught most of the world that you don't use homes for investment, but Hong Kong didn't get the message because now prices here are higher than ever. I hope Oi Wah steps up its subprime lending
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Jun 11, 2013 12:46
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Y-Hat posted:At what point is Hong Kong going to say, "That's it, nobody can live here anymore?" Or is that just not possible? I showed my girlfriend that video and she started singing along.
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Jun 12, 2013 05:49
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Bloodnose posted:Basically, for so many people, their wealth is tied inevitably to home prices and they won't tolerate a price drop. It could cause a panic. But at the same time, poor people also believe that their only hope of social advancement lies in exploiting the home ownership path to riches, and so won't tolerate prices being this high. It's a conundrum for sure. Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:I showed my girlfriend that video and she started singing along.
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Jun 12, 2013 07:29
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Edward Snowden is in Hong Kong. This should be interesting.
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Jun 12, 2013 09:24
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I hear he's there enjoying their respect for human rights and privacy.
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Jun 12, 2013 13:25
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Keep this on the down low guys, but I am getting him a Z Visa.
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Jun 12, 2013 13:45
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Y-Hat posted:This sounds exactly like the run-up to the housing crisis here in the U.S., and the same psychology of "home ownership will lead to prosperity" is being taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we all know how that turned out. God help us if the same thing unfolds in any part of China. I strongly believe that it will. Almost everything is happening in exactly the same way, except moreso because there's so much money from mainland corruption being laundered. Once that money dries up, for whatever reason, there will be a strong price correction. That's when I buy half a tower somewhere and build my walk-in humidor.
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Jun 12, 2013 14:58
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Bloodnose posted:I strongly believe that it will. Almost everything is happening in exactly the same way, except moreso because there's so much money from mainland corruption being laundered. Once that money dries up, for whatever reason, there will be a strong price correction. The GF wants to take me back to Shanghai with her, so maybe we'll get there just in time. Or is this a Hong Kong situation?
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Jun 12, 2013 15:27
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:The GF wants to take me back to Shanghai with her, so maybe we'll get there just in time. Its just as bad on the mainland. See: ghost cities.
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Jun 12, 2013 15:32
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Building apartment blocks no one wants or will ever live in has been supplying like 15% of China's economy. The ghost cities are crazy, whole gigantic cities for a million+ people with maybe ten thousand living there. It's completely unsustainable and unless the CCP has some sort of magic ability to dictate away the problem it's going to gently caress things up hard when it inevitably collapses.
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Jun 12, 2013 15:35
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Yeah they build these investment properties and then market them as either rental units or things just guaranteed to increase in value but they're usually really far out inconvenient or for any other reason something no one would ever want. As long as they keep speculating , the prices will keep going up but it's like a game of musical chairs very, similar to the 2008 crisis. That will be fun to watch again.
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Jun 12, 2013 18:29
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Bloodnose posted:Yeah they build these investment properties and then market them as either rental units or things just guaranteed to increase in value but they're usually really far out inconvenient or for any other reason something no one would ever want. As long as they keep speculating , the prices will keep going up but it's like a game of musical chairs very, similar to the 2008 crisis. That will be fun to watch again. Yes, but a good number of them are starting to fill up now.
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Jun 13, 2013 01:51
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I guess if by "a good number" you mean "nonzero." Otherwise, source it because that's important economic info for me. In other news, here's the front page of the SCMP today:  Full on Snowdenfest.
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Jun 13, 2013 02:16
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Is anyone really surprised that the NSA has been hacking China for years? I mean, I'd be surprised if they weren't.
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Jun 13, 2013 02:20
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Seriously. If the two biggest economic partners/rivals of the world weren't hacking/spying on each other constantly, that would be news. That's just how it works.
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Jun 13, 2013 02:23
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I've actually assumed basically all nations capable of this have been doing it for years, and I thought everyone thought/ knew this. But a headline's a headline, and useful for getting a guy capable of nationally embarassing the US extradited back to some place where he'll never be allowed near a journalist again.
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Jun 13, 2013 03:39
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My impression has always been that everyone spies on everyone, and it's just tacitly accepted as part of international diplomacy. Countries still flip at each other when they find out because they have to, but everyone knows it's part of the game. And every country specially targets ones that are relevant to their interests, like India targeting Pakistan or China targeting the US or the US targeting Russia or whatever.
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Jun 13, 2013 03:47
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