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Shoren posted:In other words, asauchis are similar to hollows, but are not made from hollows. Assuming there was some natural way for shinigami souls to collect and form an asauchi before Nimaiya began forging them, that would also explain why shinigami had zanpakuto before. This also begs the question "How truly different are the souls of shinigami and hollows?" Apparently forging enough shinigami souls will give you something hollow-like in nature.
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Jun 7, 2013 13:56
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Disharmony posted:A summation of this latest debacle by looking through some old information from a new perspective: Holy shiiit, that's awesome.
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Jun 7, 2013 14:05
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Going back and watching the episodes where Ichigo gets his shinigami powers back the first time (episode 19 and 20) made me all nostalgic. It's weird how much more menacing everything Zangetsu Bach says seems now.
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Jun 7, 2013 14:13
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Algid posted:They didn't have zanpakuto before, he was supposed to have invented them. Fair enough I couldn't remember. So there you have it, Aizen accidentally used Nimaiya's asauchi forging method to create White.
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Jun 7, 2013 14:27
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Shoren posted:In other words, asauchis are similar to hollows, but are not made from hollows. Assuming there was some natural way for shinigami souls to collect and form an asauchi before Nimaiya began forging them, that would also explain why shinigami had zanpakuto before. This also begs the question "How truly different are the souls of shinigami and hollows?" Apparently forging enough shinigami souls will give you something hollow-like in nature. Hollows are dead humans turned bad. Shinigami are dead humans turned ghost cop. So, ultimately, they're the same thing expressed in two different ways. We've known that since more or less the start of the series (I can't remember exactly when it was made clear that Shinigami are "promoted" ghosts, but it can't have been any later than Soul Society), and the... interchangeability of the two has been stressed with things like the Vizards and the Arrancar. I don't know that this latest revelation actually adds to that any. It might actually stress the differences between the two. Hollows level up by gobbling up other souls; Shinigami level up by reaching a deeper level of communion with one specific soul (okay, group of souls). Or... something. gently caress it, I'm less certain about any of this now than before I started writing this post. I think I need to go and reread the entire manga. 
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Jun 7, 2013 14:46
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Shoren posted:Fair enough I couldn't remember. So there you have it, Aizen accidentally used Nimaiya's asauchi forging method to create White. As much as Aizen is fond of everything actually being part of his master plan, it seems pretty reasonable that he purposefully used a variation of the forging method to create White.
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Jun 7, 2013 15:56
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Gyges posted:As much as Aizen is fond of everything actually being part of his master plan, it seems pretty reasonable that he purposefully used a variation of the forging method to create White. I'm kind of wondering how Aizen and Urahara are even supposed to know about things like that given that no-one seems to ever really come down from or go up to the Soul King's palace normally. Didn't they mention how rare it was upon first descending? I can kind of buy it in Urahara's case since he was a science guy, so maybe they shared some info with him specifically to help the division, but I'm imagining Aizen would have had to use his shikai to find out any of it if that's the case.
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Jun 7, 2013 16:03
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Disharmony posted:A summation of this latest debacle by looking through some old information from a new perspective: Yeah that's pretty cool. It doesn't deal with the part of the King/Horse analogy where White flat out says that they're all different sides of the same coin though. (took me a little to find it)  Otherwise seems spot on about how Ichigo is all mixed up inside with different power sources. edit: though he seems to be suggesting an "absorption" going on, when I think "blending" might be a better description. treeboy fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 18:06
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treeboy posted:Yeah that's pretty cool. It doesn't deal with the part of the King/Horse analogy where White flat out says that they're all different sides of the same coin though. (took me a little to find it) He says they're both Ichigo's Spirit power -> Quincy = Zangetsu/Ywach, Hollow/Shinigami = Whitey
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Jun 7, 2013 18:28
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Kild posted:He says they're both Ichigo's Spirit power -> Quincy = Zangetsu/Ywach, Hollow/Shinigami = Whitey ah i must've misunderstood the original image, i thought he was taking the stance that whitey = zangetsu, ywach = some other thing. edit: has anyone considered the fact that Ichigo's younger sisters are also hybrids? I suppose there's the potential that they don't have hollow aspects if White 'transferred' into Ichigo during pregnancy, but if it's more of an infection or copy then all three of Masaki/Isshin's kids could be potentially crazy powerful. treeboy fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 7, 2013 |
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Jun 7, 2013 18:50
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Ichigo didn't manifest much of anything without a lot of outside interference. Unless someone (probably Urahara) got involved, neither of them would likely ever amount to much until they died and became ghosts.
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Jun 7, 2013 19:52
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Perhaps Bach fusing with Ichigo to fight Aizen justifies the "throwing away reiatsu" thing.
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Jun 7, 2013 20:00
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Serious Frolicking posted:Ichigo didn't manifest much of anything without a lot of outside interference. Unless someone (probably Urahara) got involved, neither of them would likely ever amount to much until they died and became ghosts. Urahara has been directly involved. Karin asked him to train her, which he accepted. We haven't really had a chance to see the full results of this training, yet.
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Jun 7, 2013 21:13
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I figured it all out. This was all just a thousand year plan to steal the old man's bankai. Now it will never rain again for old man zangetsu. Can't have rain when the air is all dry.
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Jun 8, 2013 05:07
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I don't really care what Ichigo or Zangetsu are as long as it means Ichigo gets to shoot his sword out of a bow. That's what all this has been leading up to for me, and frankly I will be disappointed if Bleach doesn't end in the silliest goddamn way possible.
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Jun 9, 2013 01:01
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I think that when it comes to Bleach, we can all agree: It was always Wankershim. 
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Jun 9, 2013 01:47
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So, I was thinking about this earlier, but what exactly happened to Chad, Orihime, Grimmjaw, and Urahara if Ishida is now working for the big baddie? Maybe they were captured and Ishida is being forced to fight for Ywach for the safety or he did some Orihime-esque voluntarily walking away to spare them the trouble?
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Jun 9, 2013 02:01
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Probably. 1st arc -> Rukia is apart of the Shinigami Organization and Ichigo fights them 2nd arc -> Orihime joins Aizen/Arrancars and Ichigo fights them 3rd arc -> Chad is part of Xcution and Ichigo fights them 4th arc -> Ishida is part of Vandereich and Ichigo fights them
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Jun 9, 2013 02:04
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tsob posted:I'm kind of wondering how Aizen and Urahara are even supposed to know about things like that given that no-one seems to ever really come down from or go up to the Soul King's palace normally. Didn't they mention how rare it was upon first descending? I can kind of buy it in Urahara's case since he was a science guy, so maybe they shared some info with him specifically to help the division, but I'm imagining Aizen would have had to use his shikai to find out any of it if that's the case.
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Jun 9, 2013 06:57
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Rainbow Pony Deluxe posted:So, I was thinking about this earlier, but what exactly happened to Chad, Orihime, Grimmjaw, and Urahara if Ishida is now working for the big baddie? Maybe they were captured and Ishida is being forced to fight for Ywach for the safety or he did some Orihime-esque voluntarily walking away to spare them the trouble? Nothing happened to them, necessarily, since Ishida made a point to not go with them when they went to Heuco Mundo to do whatever the hell they did.
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Jun 9, 2013 20:34
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Robviously posted:Nothing happened to them, necessarily, since Ishida made a point to not go with them when they went to Heuco Mundo to do whatever the hell they did. Oh yeah, good point. I thought he was with them for some reason. That reminds me, though, I want to know what this was all about : http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/490/8.
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Jun 9, 2013 20:38
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It implies that at that point, Ishida had already met with the Vandenreich (and YWACH had already given him the title Prinz von Licht), or, they already knew about his powers.
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Jun 9, 2013 20:53
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Well, we definitely know they knew about him and his powers, Kirge Opie spoke of him like he was a Quincy celebrity, even going as far as to suggest he should be much more powerful than Ichigo knows him as.
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Jun 9, 2013 22:18
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Advice posted:Well, we definitely know they knew about him and his powers, Kirge Opie spoke of him like he was a Quincy celebrity, even going as far as to suggest he should be much more powerful than Ichigo knows him as.
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Jun 10, 2013 01:24
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Zogundar posted:One wonders why he was B (C?) tier until this arc. As recently as one arc ago he was taken out like a chump by someone who Ichigo in turn ended up pulverizing at his current-ish level of strength. drat you Kubo, too lazy to even give Ginjo's Shikai or Bankai name.. (Unless his Fullbring was supposed to be a Shikai? Or was it maybe a "Buy the Databook suckers" thing?) I feel like from those pages in that chapter that was just linked it implied that Ryuuken was training Uryuu in a way that was gimping his full potential from the vandenreich's point of view.
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Jun 10, 2013 01:41
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Zogundar posted:One wonders why he was B (C?) tier until this arc. As recently as one arc ago he was taken out like a chump by someone who Ichigo in turn ended up pulverizing at his current-ish level of strength. drat you Kubo, too lazy to even give Ginjo's Shikai or Bankai name.. (Unless his Fullbring was supposed to be a Shikai? Or was it maybe a "Buy the Databook suckers" thing?) The way Opie talked about it implied to me that Ishida was deliberately holding back during the conflict with the Fullbringers.
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Jun 10, 2013 02:03
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Maybe he just wasn't comfortable attacking living humans.
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Jun 10, 2013 22:11
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Silver2195 posted:The way Opie talked about it implied to me that Ishida was deliberately holding back during the conflict with the Fullbringers. Im thinking that Opie meant that he is more pure-blooded. Having a stronger connection to YWACH, therefore stronger. That being said Im thinking that YWACH actively supplies all quincy powers, or at least provides the base ability to and can modify them as he pleases. Opie's line about reminding YWACH to adjust their blut is kind of telling.
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Jun 10, 2013 23:11
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For the first time in quite a while, I am actively searching for spoilers, and annoyed that I have been unable to find any.  I too am trying to wrap my head around what exactly is going on here. If anyone scares up some spoilers, I'm all eyes!
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Jun 11, 2013 19:25
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AlistairCookie posted:For the first time in quite a while, I am actively searching for spoilers, and annoyed that I have been unable to find any. Only One Piece spoilers so far.
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Jun 11, 2013 19:51
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Hey Wanna read Bleach? http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/541/20 Hope you've got an extra minute and a half to read it all  Spoilers: It's a Kubo chapter in which it takes 14 pages in what should take one.
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Jun 12, 2013 10:16
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Aw, that's kinda sad, actually.
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Jun 12, 2013 10:18
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That was a bit touching. I liked it.
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Jun 12, 2013 10:23
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I didn't want this. I didn't want this at all.
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Jun 12, 2013 10:23
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Admit it, Kubo, you just like playing dress-up with your characters. This is how many new costumes and powers for Ichigo in how many arcs? I've lost count.
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Jun 12, 2013 10:30
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KittenofDoom posted:Admit it, Kubo, you just like playing dress-up with your characters. This is how many new costumes and powers for Ichigo in how many arcs? I've lost count. Dude did want to be a fashion designer I hear. Anyway, I liked this chapter. Yeah, could have used more, but I think using up a bit too much page time for this particular instance is justified. Also, I liked the nice touches with Ichigo's inner world massively changing when his inner Quincy admitted he wasn't Zangetsu. First the buildings started to break apart, eventually the entire world flooded again. It also makes Ichigo finding his shinigami powers in the Shattered Shaft a bit more interesting. He didn't find the Spirit Formerly Known as Zangetsu, he found a sword that he pulled out. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Jun 12, 2013 |
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Jun 12, 2013 10:35
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 that this new Zangetsu has the same shape and the same techniques as the first one.
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Jun 12, 2013 10:37
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loving Kubo you should've just shown the sword at the end At least it explains why Ichigo's power was always loving random. e: What chapter was 'The Blade and Me 1'? Kild fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jun 12, 2013 |
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Jun 12, 2013 10:50
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So... What exactly was the point of YWACH pretending to be Ichigo's Zanpakatu the whole time?
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Jun 12, 2013 10:52
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Mulderman posted:So... What exactly was the point of YWACH pretending to be Ichigo's Zanpakatu the whole time? So he wouldn't actually tap into his Shinigami powers because he hates them Page 13 e: It looks like another Fire sword like Engetsu Also it looks like http://i.imgur.com/bTaRH9O.png Could it be that 'Ywachgetsu' and Zangetsu/Hichigo swapped positions with Ywach becoming the 'asauchi' and Hichigo becoming his power source or someshit Kild fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Jun 12, 2013 |
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Jun 12, 2013 10:53
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