|
Autumncomet posted:Kyrie and Kanon are all right. I wonder if it's only a matter of time before we discover some horribly character flaw of Kyrie's? 
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2013 19:59
|
|
I'm excited to see how Beatrice is going to get involved with the murdering.
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:53 |
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:I dunno, I think meeting Beatrice when she's running around ready to kill a bunch of people to resurrect her might lead to him dying. Keeping himself sealed away in a room protected from supernatural influence is a pretty good way to guarantee his safety. Not doing anything dumb like leaving or letting anybody in like last time is the best way to survive his gamble. He's waited decades for Beatrice to come back, he can lock himself away for two days in order to guarantee he'll see her again. Eh, from his dialogue so far in episode 1 + 2 we know that A: he apparently is willing to die if only he can see Beatrice again, and B: the whole thing is apparently a big gamble to him, and judging by the events of episode 1 his odds probably aren't that good. I doubt he'd turn down a chance to see her even if it came with risks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2013 20:23
|
|
|
Kanon's not a bad kid. It's just that years of working for the Ushiromiya's has reduced him to a hollow, hate filled shell of a man. Which is why he and Kinzo get along swimingly Artificer posted:I wonder if it's only a matter of time before we discover some horribly character flaw of Kyrie's? She did marry Rudolf. There has to be some error of judgement there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
Is that the one-winged eagle crest on Beatrice's leg? Nice to see she's rocking Shanon's special design feature. That outfit also makes her look a bit like a more refined bitch version of Jessica.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
Shiny777 posted:
God drat, Eva. All the siblings sniping at each other is great, I wonder if they'd give Rosa half as much poo poo if they realized just how badly she abuses Maria.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2013 23:29
|
|
: "My, my, isn't that wonderful. It's best for kids to have dreams. By the way, Rosa, how old will Maria be this year again...?"
|
Eva is pretty much the master of passive aggressive sniping. It's pretty funny how 3/4s of all the words out of her mouth is some very thinly veiled insult. Also, do you really think that they wouldn't just use Rosa being The Worst Mother ever as more material to tear her down. Good odds on them knowing about it already, she had no problems going crazy on her daughter in front of her niece and nephews after all. Dr Pepper fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
Huh. Nine years old, and already bringing out the 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 01:32
|
|
|
booksnake posted:Huh. Nine years old, and already bringing out the The crown is the witch version of a fedora.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 11:36
|
|
|
I have a crazy theory: Rosa is Beatrice. Proof #1: Maria calls Rosa's abusive side the "the bad witch". She never has called anyone else (other than Beatrice) a witch. There has to be a connection here. #2: Maria knows way too much about occult. Like, sure, a kid can be interested in occult and the kid might know some trivia, but not to the extent Maria knows. It seems like she has memorized everything there is to know about occult, which is a problem because her only parent really really hates it when she talks about occult. So, how did Maria learn all the occult things? Well, she couldn't lend the books from a library, because Rosa would have just said "no, don't read these books" (And I don't think that a regular library has that many books on occult anyway). The only way she could learn occult things is in the case that their house has a really huge occult library. "But didn't you just say that Rosa hates magic?" No. Rosa has never said that she hates magic, she just hates it when Maria speaks about magic. Why is that? Because their house has a really huge occult library and she might be embarrased if everyone would know that. She wants to silence Maria because there is a chance of her saying "But one of mommy's books said that if you sacrifice 15 goats you will get lucky." #3: So, what is the thing that Maria calls Beatrice? It's Rosa's split personality. Maria already calls her normal mom 'Mom' and her abusive mom 'Bad Witch'. Maybe she calls her really nice mom who shows her magic tricks 'Beatrice'? Also, kids like to mimic their parents. If Rosa had a split personality, that would explain why Maria's tone completely changes whenever she talks about magic ("My mom/Beatrice is always so serious when she talks about magic, so I'll be really serious when I talk about magic too!") The servants also know about Rosa's split personality. Shannon just plays along and has tea with Beatrice. Meanwhile Kanon is all "Shannon the *witch* is CRAZY, get away from her" and really doesn't want to deal with her. #4: Shiny777 said that Rosa should try putting a witch costume on, if that's not foreshadowing, I don't know what is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 15:01
|
|
|
That meshes well with the events of this particular update but it doesn't explain how Beatrice helped make Kinzo rich before Rosa was born.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
Sindai posted:That meshes well with the events of this particular update but it doesn't explain how Beatrice helped make Kinzo rich before Rosa was born. That is another Beatrice, the inspiration to Rosa's Beatrice. Basically, the timeline is: Beatrice (the original) helps Kinzo become rich -> Kinzo gets kids -> Rosa's personality splits at some point. That part believes in magic and names herself Beatrice (Because Kinzo told his kids many stories about the great witch Beatrice). Then, it's the current day and for some reason Rosa decides to kill everyone. Rosa-culprit could actually work in the first episode! She was one of the people who was found dead during the first epitaph and it's possible that she somehow faked her death. That way, she could easily just run around killing people. At the end of the episode, she left Maria alive to make the phone call to others. Part of the reason was just to lure the remaining people out from their hiding place, but maybe Beatrice didn't want to kill Maria because she was her daughter?
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 17:20
|
|
|
Rosa seems......a little young though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
Oh yes, actual speculation. Wonderful.Jackster posted:Rosa-culprit could actually work in the first episode! She was one of the people who was found dead during the first epitaph and it's possible that she somehow faked her death. That way, she could easily just run around killing people. Okay, then what was Rosa's body in the shed?
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 18:50
|
|
|
Well we saw a body wearing Rosa's clothing, but the face was smashed up, so we can't tell if it's really Rosa. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 18:53
|
|
|
Potential explanation for first episode, with no magic involved, assuming Rosa is culprit: Rosa used her Beatrice persona to give the letter to Maria, who read the letter to everyone. At night, Rosa went to the 5 to-be-murdered people and said something like "Wow, I found the gold, follow me", took them to the gardening shed and killed them [she probably took them one at a time so she could kill them easier]. Before the family conference had started, she had killed some other girl. Rosa put her clothes on the girl's body and made a fake body that way. Second twilight, the closed room: An accomplice is needed here. The accomplice is either a) Genji, Kanon and Kumasawa. They were the only people who saw the chain on the door. It's possible that they were all lying and the door was never locked in the first place. Unlikely, because having 4 culprits seems iffy. b) One accomplice, which I will reveal later. In this case, The accomplice opened the door and let Rosa in. After Rosa killed Hideyoshi and Eva, she locked the door and hid in the closet/under the bed/some other place. They didn't actually search the place so it's possible that Rosa was hiding inside the room. After everyone left the room, Rosa left from her hidingspot and went to the boiler room. She killed Kanon and then fled outside. The mystery letter in Kinzo's room: Either Natsuhi, Kumasawa, Genji, Nanjo or Maria placed the letter on the desk. Nothing special here. Kumasawa, Genji, Nanjo and Maria went to the parlor room. Rosa went there and killed everyone but Maria. She also used her Beatrice persona to instruct Maria (Look at the wall, keep singing etc.). She left a letter which Natsuhi then eventually picked up and then Rosa shot everyone and the episode is over. So, who is the accomplice? It has to be one of the five who could place the letter in Kinzo's room. The accomplice can't be Maria, because Maria seems to genuinely believe in magic and she wouldn't assist Beatrice in a trick (Because if Beatrice can do real magic, why would she need help?). But the other four? It could be any one of them. They could just talk their way inside Eva's room ("Hey, did you notice? There was something strange on the bodies.."). The motive could be money. Some time before the family conference, Rosa could have contacted one of them and said something like "Hey, I'm gonna kill everyone. I might require your assistance in something, I won't actually make you kill anyone but if you could help me with some things that would be great. I'll give you a billion yen if you do!" Rosa is 35 years old so age shouldn't be a problem. Also, I think I'm reading way too much into this theory, seeing as the murders haven't even started for the second episode yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 20:33
|
|
|
Why would Maria call this theoretical Rosa-Beatrice a "bad witch" when she usually won't shut up about how awesome Beatrice is, though?
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 20:50
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Well we saw a body wearing Rosa's clothing, but the face was smashed up, so we can't tell if it's really Rosa. So, uh. If it isn't Rosa, then who was the dead body? I mean, there was definitely a dead body there, so...
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 20:56
|
|
|
Paracelsus posted:Why would Maria call this theoretical Rosa-Beatrice a "bad witch" when she usually won't shut up about how awesome Beatrice is, though? Psycho-Rosa is the "Bad witch" while Beatrice is the "good witch" duh. Crepuscule Adepte posted:So, uh. If it isn't Rosa, then who was the dead body? I mean, there was definitely a dead body there, so... Good question!
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
Paracelsus posted:Why would Maria call this theoretical Rosa-Beatrice a "bad witch" when she usually won't shut up about how awesome Beatrice is, though? Well, according to Jackster's theory, Beatrice!Rosa is the "good witch" who is super fun and exciting and plays around with all sorts of awesome magic, while Abusive!Rosa is the "bad witch" who slaps the poo poo out of her all the time. And then regular Rosa is just the "nice mama", I guess. As for the extra corpse, she could've just hidden a corpse in her suitcase and brought it over with her on the flight? ...seems unlikely. If she was accomplices with someone already living on the island though, they could've killed someone in secret and had the corpse prepared beforehand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2013 23:46
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Well we saw a body wearing Rosa's clothing, but the face was smashed up, so we can't tell if it's really Rosa. I didn't want to be too direct. xxlicious posted:If she was accomplices with someone already living on the island though, they could've killed someone in secret and had the corpse prepared beforehand. That would mean that Kinzo, all the servants, Krauss, Natsuhi and Jessica (and perhaps Nanjo) are on the possible accomplice list. If they killed "someone" on the island, there's really no other choice for the corpse than some unknown-to-us servant who wasn't on duty on the 4th, because nobody else comes there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 05:28
|
|
|
tiistai posted:That would mean that Kinzo, all the servants, Krauss, Natsuhi and Jessica (and perhaps Nanjo) are on the possible accomplice list. If they killed "someone" on the island, there's really no other choice for the corpse than some unknown-to-us servant who wasn't on duty on the 4th, because nobody else comes there. (Right??)I'd bet on Nanjo being the accomplice because he's alive for fairly long in the 1st round.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 18:25
|
|
|
blankd posted:Or Rosa could have just faked her death and Nanjo is the accomplice since he was the only one that really checked the shed bodies. Even then they'd need a body, given that Nanjo, while the one with the most expertise, and making the closest examination, was hardly the only person to see the corpses up close. You could probably get away with a not-too-similar corpse if he was an accomplice, but nothing less.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
blankd posted:Or Rosa could have just faked her death and Nanjo is the accomplice since he was the only one that really checked the shed bodies. That could work, but at least Hideyoshi was inside the shed too. Dunno about Eva and Natsuhi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 19:09
|
|
|
This is off topic, but I want to see more Kraus action. He is the smuggest looking dude, and I can appreciate that in a character. Besides that, he hasn't been shown to be a raging alcoholic, abusive parent, passive-aggressive insulter unlike the others, so he seems alright (the perpetual smug face is a plus). I think Jessica is tied with George for having the most functional family, but I also think George drags down his family by having the creepy relationship with Shannon.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 19:47
|
|
|
Eva's basically pushing all her personal ambitions onto George, literally raising him as part of a scheme to stick it to Krauss. It would not surprise me if half the reason George went for Shannon was rebelling against her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 19:54
|
|
|
Insurrectionist posted:Even then they'd need a body, given that Nanjo, while the one with the most expertise, and making the closest examination, was hardly the only person to see the corpses up close. You could probably get away with a not-too-similar corpse if he was an accomplice, but nothing less. Not necessarily. The shed was dark, and basically nobody was in their right mind. It would only need to pass as a real corpse to a casual glance, especially since every other corpse there attracted more attention, and if we assume Nanjo is the accomplice then the only person doing close scrutiny is in on the whole deal. It's not inconceivable for a fake body to work. I wouldn't want to hinge my entire murder plot on it, but Bernkastel herself said this "witch" does not make the best possible moves so perhaps a high-risk stratagem like this is in character.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 20:17
|
|
|
So nobody thought that Rosa's body in the shed might actually just be a realistic dummy? I'm disappointed in you guys...
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
The problem with Rosa being the culprit is that she would not be able to mess with people on the island outside of family meeting, which Beatrice has done multiple times this season (talking to the servants and giving her mirror to Shannon, for instance). However, it does explain why Marie was unfazed by Rosa's death, so this is definitely an interesting possibility.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2013 03:27
|
|
|
There's no reason Rosa couldn't be collaborating with another person. Jessica is pretty suspicious as she looks very similar to Beatrice, and the changing third- to first-person POV has me wondering what is really reliable and what isn't as far as we see.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2013 04:31
|
|
|
Autumncomet posted:There's no reason Rosa couldn't be collaborating with another person. Jessica is pretty suspicious as she looks very similar to Beatrice, and the changing third- to first-person POV has me wondering what is really reliable and what isn't as far as we see. (Also I remembered something from the 1st round, but I haven't gone to check yet, when Kanon got wounded, who did he say killed him? Did he say Beatrice?)
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2013 07:20
|
|
|
blankd posted:(Also I remembered something from the 1st round, but I haven't gone to check yet, when Kanon got wounded, who did he say killed him? Did he say Beatrice?) Kanon went unconscious after being wounded in update 20 and died that way. (The link on OP for update 20 is wrong, by the way; correct link is here.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2013 07:48
|
|
|
Jeek posted:Kanon went unconscious after being wounded in update 20 and died that way. (The link on OP for update 20 is wrong, by the way; correct link is here.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2013 08:36
|
|
|
Jeek posted:Kanon went unconscious after being wounded in update 20 and died that way. (The link on OP for update 20 is wrong, by the way; correct link is here.) Huh. I went to check, and both links go to the right update for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2013 08:37
|
|
|
xxlicious posted:Well, according to Jackster's theory, Beatrice!Rosa is the "good witch" who is super fun and exciting and plays around with all sorts of awesome magic, while Abusive!Rosa is the "bad witch" who slaps the poo poo out of her all the time. And then regular Rosa is just the "nice mama", I guess. I don't know, it seems a little excessive for Rosa to need a whole three personalities to make her work as Beatrice, even if one of them is carefully crafted rather than natural (I use the word natural loosely), and on top of that to require an accomplice to work well in Ep1. What reason would Nanjo have to help Rosa kill everyone anyway? He's retired, so he's unlikely to want the gold. If anything, Nanjo is one of the people on the island I'd trust the most, between his age and the fact that he's not an Ushiromiya. Another thing: If Rosa really is Beatrice, why would she read Beatrice's letter herself at dinner? Wouldn't it make more sense to give it to Maria like Beatrice did in the first part? Reading it herself and saying "Beatrice gave it to me" is just going to make her look suspicious.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
Meirlkor posted:I don't know, it seems a little excessive for Rosa to need a whole three personalities to make her work as Beatrice, even if one of them is carefully crafted rather than natural (I use the word natural loosely), and on top of that to require an accomplice to work well in Ep1. What reason would Nanjo have to help Rosa kill everyone anyway? He's retired, so he's unlikely to want the gold. If anything, Nanjo is one of the people on the island I'd trust the most, between his age and the fact that he's not an Ushiromiya. Regardless, whoever the killer was in the first round, Nanjo could have been coerced into being an accomplice with the simple promise of not being killed. It might seem unlikely but considering how many people get killed... Or maybe there is more info about Nanjo we have to learn about, maybe money isn't a factor. QEdit: She hasn't read the letter yet, so maybe the other siblings will have those accusations.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 23:45
|
|
|
Can we please leave all this Rosatrice nonsense behind for now? There are just way too many reasons to do so but it would be difficult to state them here without spoiling anything. Suffice it to say, it would just be completely disrespectful to the entire series if we continue to indulge in this train of thought.
redsoxism fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jun 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2013 04:31
|
|
|
Man let people have their fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2013 04:32
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Man let people have their fun. Let's not cut down on the theorizing, yeah. It's fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2013 05:21
|
|
|
redsoxism posted:Can we please leave all this Rosatrice nonsense behind for now? There are just way too many reasons to do so but it would be difficult to state them here without spoiling anything. Suffice it to say, it would just be completely disrespectful to the entire series if we continue to indulge in this train of thought. Crazy theorising is what the entire series is about. If you're concerned about 'respecting' the series then let people do what it's asking them to do and go on whatever trains of thought they want to try and explain what's going on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2013 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:53 |
|
|
You're the one raining on the party. Let them enjoy gathering their own evidence and making their own theories. Besides, I'm enjoying those theories (and I'm saying this as someone who's read the entire series).
Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jun 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2013 07:28
|
|
