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Weinertron posted:This is me, most good BME programs have TONS of scientific programming that ends up being a marketable skill. an skeleton, do not get a BME BS, do not pass go. I can't tell if you are warning me that BME is bad or just that it sorely needs a masters. Either way I am going in for advising tomorrow and will try to take classes that are applicable to both EE/BME and spend the rest of the semester contemplating a change, I guess.
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Jun 10, 2013 16:36
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an skeleton posted:I can't tell if you are warning me that BME is bad or just that it sorely needs a masters. Either way I am going in for advising tomorrow and will try to take classes that are applicable to both EE/BME and spend the rest of the semester contemplating a change, I guess. I think BME is bad. If you really want to be in BME and think you'll love it, maybe get a BS in EE and then a BME Masters after? I mean that the only job options with a BME BS are tangentially related at best. I spent the last 2 years of BME wishing I had been an EE major but unable to switch without adding a year to college. My college's stupid BME program was so selective, recruited super hard, and boasted about having the highest SAT, GRE, MCAT, everything scores of any program at my school and it meant nothing. I'm bitter and probably excessively biased, but I can tell you that ME / EE guys have no trouble getting into BME masters programs. Given that the BME field needs a Masters anyway, you might as well do a less restricting undergrad. When you say you're 2 years in and haven't done any engineering classes yet, do you mean you're doing anatomy and physiology and that stuff? We did all of that sophomore year. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jun 10, 2013 |
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Jun 10, 2013 16:42
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Weinertron posted:I think BME is bad. If you really want to be in BME and think you'll love it, maybe get a BS in EE and then a BME Masters after? I mean that the only job options with a BME BS are tangentially related at best. I spent the last 2 years of BME wishing I had been an EE major but unable to switch without adding a year to college. My college's stupid BME program was so selective, recruited super hard, and boasted about having the highest SAT, GRE, MCAT, everything scores of any program at my school and it meant nothing. Yeah I've had a weird college career thus far and so I am probably going to still be taking some sophomore classes this next semester, hopefully not after that. Thankfully most of that was spent at a community college so I don't really have debt yet. But I will be racking up some debt this next year, so it needs to count-- so if I need to switch it's going to happen now. I was considering either Cognitive Science (which probably has just as laughable job prospects?) or a different engineering/computer science (I've taken programming fundamentals 1-3). I've always really loved biology so I have a strong gut feeling that would be best channeled into BME but the amount of resistance I've met here/elsewhere is pretty staggering. It makes sense though -- BME just isn't as specialized as the other engineering disciplines (yet?) so it doesn't have the same career prospects without further specialization, (Master's) which I'm not opposed to, but that seems to be pretty distant in the future. I am interested in genetic engineering and other cellular stuff but apparently that is more of a Molecular Biology thing, which makes me question what exactly Biomedical Engineering is responsible for. I've done a fair amount of research and it's been a combination of praise and warning, so I'm kind of split at the moment but posting in this thread has made me seriously reconsider. I guess I am lucky enough to be in a position to switch having not taken my specialized classes yet.
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Jun 10, 2013 16:57
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an skeleton posted:Yeah I've had a weird college career thus far and so I am probably going to still be taking some sophomore classes this next semester, hopefully not after that. Thankfully most of that was spent at a community college so I don't really have debt yet. But I will be racking up some debt this next year, so it needs to count-- so if I need to switch it's going to happen now. I was considering either Cognitive Science (which probably has just as laughable job prospects?) or a different engineering/computer science (I've taken programming fundamentals 1-3). I've always really loved biology so I have a strong gut feeling that would be best channeled into BME but the amount of resistance I've met here/elsewhere is pretty staggering. It makes sense though -- BME just isn't as specialized as the other engineering disciplines (yet?) so it doesn't have the same career prospects without further specialization, (Master's) which I'm not opposed to, but that seems to be pretty distant in the future. I am interested in genetic engineering and other cellular stuff but apparently that is more of a Molecular Biology thing, which makes me question what exactly Biomedical Engineering is responsible for. I've done a fair amount of research and it's been a combination of praise and warning, so I'm kind of split at the moment but posting in this thread has made me seriously reconsider. I think you'd have a good time in MechE and focus your electives/spare time on research with the BME department of your school, though it seems like you have an interest more in the life sciences/molecular biology end of things in which case you unfortunately have to decide very soon as that's a decision between science vs. engineering, instead of just two different kinds of engineering (where early classes are shared or count as electives). Fucknag posted:So after an aborted attempt at being a Mechanic, I've decided to switch tacks and become that which I have often cursed: an Engineer. Obviously I enjoy cars, but I've also got a passion for aerospace, specifically the space side of the spectrum. Talking with my counselor, we've decided that for the time being Mechanical is the way to go, as according to them if I decide I want to do aerospace it's easier to switch than starting as an Aerospace major and going the other way. Does this sound about right as far as education goes? Which one would give me better job prospects in that field? Obviously Mechanical is going to have broader appeal if I can't find work in that specific industry, just wanted the Goon opinion on which would be a better choice. Mechanical will be broader and "technically" has the better job market, but again it'll be your internships that determine what you want to do. Studying ME and trying to get internships @ Lockheed/Boeing/etc would be a good way to get into aerospace stuff, though don't be expecting to do AeroE specific stuff right from the get go.
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Jun 10, 2013 17:13
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Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2013 18:44
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an skeleton posted:what exactly Biomedical Engineering is responsible for. Exactly!!! I think you should focus on what you want to do after college, and then research what degrees get those jobs. Electrical is a common recommendation because medical device manufacturers hire EEs, but if you want to do biology lab work you could look in to Biological and Environmental Engineering.
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Jun 10, 2013 19:17
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What's the least awkward or painful way to avoid wasting everybody's time without compromising one's negotiating position about salary? I just watched a fresh grad friend of mine waste a ton of time by interviewing with a company who wanted a EE to do FPGA design and CAD work, they recruited people with relevant senior design projects and internships during college. At the very end after they want him to start in a week they finally get down to talk salary, I thought this was a very strong negotiating position for him as they know he's a good fit and can do the technical work they are asking. Their first offer? $15/hr with no benefits.
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Jun 10, 2013 20:28
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Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Jun 10, 2013 20:35
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Did he say "you'd have to at least double that?"
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Jun 10, 2013 21:03
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Last year I had a company offer me 2/3rds my current rate (after I had already told them what I make), telling me it was worth it because they work on videogames. Thanks, but no thanks.
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Jun 10, 2013 21:13
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BeefofAges posted:Last year I had a company offer me 2/3rds my current rate (after I had already told them what I make), telling me it was worth it because they work on videogames. Thanks, but no thanks. To be fair, they can pull this strategy a lot of the time because people seem to be enthralled with working in the game industry even at risk of lovely working conditions and low pay.
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Jun 11, 2013 00:46
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Weinertron posted:What's the least awkward or painful way to avoid wasting everybody's time without compromising one's negotiating position about salary? I just watched a fresh grad friend of mine waste a ton of time by interviewing with a company who wanted a EE to do FPGA design and CAD work, they recruited people with relevant senior design projects and internships during college. Are you making GBS threads me? Even if they made a better offer later, you know these are shady who will take advantage when they can. I'm not saying everyone should work for a large corporation, it has its major drawbacks, but you know they will be above the board with compensation and benefits. You do have an opportunity for more responsibility in a smaller organization, but what these smaller company recruiters don't tell you is: 1) A lot of them are affectionately referred to as "engineering sweatshops" 2) They will fall apart financially if a stiff wind blows on their one "cutting edge contract". 3) The ownership and upper people are enriched beyond any middle manager at a large corporation, but the middling and lower engineers toil with pay far below what they would get at a corporation. 4) if you work at a place with a small amount of people, taking vacation when you want becomes a game Small and agile seems to work well with software, and all those Northern California innovative places, but when it comes to traditional engineering hardware and actually making physical poo poo, it just means that much less of a cushion when things go bad. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jun 11, 2013 |
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Jun 11, 2013 02:03
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Weinertron posted:At the very end after they want him to start in a week they finally get down to talk salary, I thought this was a very strong negotiating position for him as they know he's a good fit and can do the technical work they are asking. Their first offer? $15/hr with no benefits. Oh man, please share that company name, that's goddamn intern pay.
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Jun 11, 2013 02:05
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movax posted:Oh man, please share that company name, that's goddamn intern pay. I don't have a horse in this race, it's a close friend of mine so I don't want to shame the company. However, when he told me he was interviewing with guys who include a $500k Kickstarter among their funding I warned him to be cautious. They claim to have significant cash flow and the founders sure have fancy degrees. There's lots of engineering grads from my school and some who don't have jobs lined up so I'll bet they find a sucker, but the sucker they find isn't going to be him. I've seen those engineering sweatshops on Glassdoor and job postings, paying way under market with power-mad owners.
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Jun 11, 2013 02:32
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Thoguh posted:What kind of career are you wanting to get in to? There are some areas where going ME vs. Aero won't make much of a difference. But if you are wanting to get into something like controls or Astrodynamics type stuff then you'd definitely want to go Aerospace rather than Mechanical. I'd have to say the main thing that appeals to me is rocket engine design.
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Jun 11, 2013 03:12
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Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2013 03:21
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I've always loved the places that ask for an 'Intermediate' Engineer, also ask for a decade of experience, include responsibilities that put you in charge of a bunch of engineers, and then list the salary as something like $60,000. There are a surprising number of them. I also saw a listing today that listed 0-3 years experience but required extensive knowledge of shoring, scaffolding and engineering of construction facilities. What it tells you is that the company listing the work doesn't know enough about the work to even list a job properly *or* they treat everyone like crap. In either case, you likely don't want to work there.
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Jun 11, 2013 03:25
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Fucknag posted:I'd have to say the main thing that appeals to me is rocket engine design. You'll probably want to go mechanical, if only because you'll get more exposure to the thermodynamics and heat transfer material which you'll need for engine design. Depending on your school, you may be able to get as much classroom exposure with propulsion as the Aero people; my aero propulsion class was crosslisted as a mechanical elective. If you get the grades, you'll have as much a chance for an internship at GE, Pratt & Whitney, ATK, etc. as any Aero.
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Jun 11, 2013 03:26
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I don't think I can read this thread anymore since I just got my BME. Should just go get an MBA and forget I wasted my time.
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Jun 11, 2013 14:33
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SubCrid TC posted:I've always loved the places that ask for an 'Intermediate' Engineer, also ask for a decade of experience, include responsibilities that put you in charge of a bunch of engineers, and then list the salary as something like $60,000. What do you think the salaries for that position should be out of curiosity? I don't know if I'm off-base expecting considerably more for that for that given job/responsibilities.
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Jun 11, 2013 15:19
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movax posted:What do you think the salaries for that position should be out of curiosity? I don't know if I'm off-base expecting considerably more for that for that given job/responsibilities. with supervisory duties? around 90. Booties posted:I don't think I can read this thread anymore since I just got my BME. Should just go get an MBA and forget I wasted my time. I think we were a bit overly harsh, I think the summary is "other than a few particular large employers, BME is more under the demesne of the medical research industry, which tends to have graduate-degree inflation". Also, unless you are in a top tier program, an MBA without work experience is a an inefficient allocation of your personal resources. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 11, 2013 |
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Jun 11, 2013 16:13
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CatchrNdRy posted:with supervisory duties? around 90. Ok good. Well either way I just hope my interview on Friday goes well.
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Jun 11, 2013 16:18
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Plus an MBA generally precludes you from getting entry level positions.
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Jun 11, 2013 17:30
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Well, thanks to this thread and the fact that a BME at my school would take an additional 4 years I am now a Computer Science major, which with my schools "Fast Track" program I can probably have a bachelor's + masters in 3.
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Jun 12, 2013 17:58
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an skeleton posted:Well, thanks to this thread and the fact that a BME at my school would take an additional 4 years I am now a Computer Science major, which with my schools "Fast Track" program I can probably have a bachelor's + masters in 3. Awesome!
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Jun 12, 2013 18:24
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an skeleton posted:Well, thanks to this thread and the fact that a BME at my school would take an additional 4 years I am now a Computer Science major, which with my schools "Fast Track" program I can probably have a bachelor's + masters in 3.
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Jun 12, 2013 20:11
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Cicero posted:Just a heads up, a master's in CS may not be worth it. Reaction in industry is quite varied; some consider it worth a few years' work experience, some don't care, some (often in the startup world) actually prefer a bachelor's over a master's. My brother did a fast track master's and later said he regretted it because it wasn't really worth the hassle. It's just an option that's available, I may not do it, but thanks.
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Jun 12, 2013 20:16
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Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2013 20:33
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an skeleton posted:It's just an option that's available, I may not do it, but thanks. a) I like learning in new areas in the kind of structured way that college gives you, b) I'll get an ego boost from having a graduate degree, c) there'll be a networking advantage from going to a top-tier school (I would probably only get a master's if I got into such a school, which is apparently easier than it sounds since the really tough competition is for getting into PhD programs, not terminal master's programs, which tend to be cash cows), d) there are some areas where having a graduate degree does help, like government jobs, certain companies, immigration (I'd like to live overseas someday), and general resume-boosting to the clueless (I want to do CS tutoring as a part-time job eventually). But yeah it's definitely not a no-brainer decision, possibly even moreso than other engineering fields.
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Jun 12, 2013 20:52
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an skeleton posted:It's just an option that's available, I may not do it, but thanks. I think the CS idea is better for employment opportunities than BME, but it puts you out of pure engineering realm too. Sure you can apply for engineer positions that are software based, but without an "engineering" degree you are restricting yourself from going for slightly off-range jobs. for example: a computer engineer could apply for a hardware testing, a materials engineer could work into some mechanical stuff, a chemical engineer is seen as generally versatile. In many places CS is seen as a pure software specialist. The word "engineer" in the degree offers flexibility (physics degrees are also highly respected in engineering, but not chem and especially not bio)
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Jun 12, 2013 20:56
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CatchrNdRy posted:I think the CS idea is better for employment opportunities than BME, but it puts you out of pure engineering realm too. It's cool, I actually wanted to go into Bioinformatics or something more Biology oriented with BME, my idea was that the engineering part made me also able to branch into engineering, but I guess while that may kind of be true Computer Science will also let me do Bioinformatics or branch into a lot of other cool, granted non-engineering, poo poo.
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Jun 12, 2013 21:07
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As CS heads up, start building your code portfolio or hitting up cert books, depending on branch.
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Jun 12, 2013 21:29
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Thoguh posted:I think as a general statement in Engineering and related fields you should only go directly to graduate work if you plan on sticking around in research. Otherwise go get a job and let your company pay for it while you go part time. This also means by the time you have your Masters you also have several years of real world experience under your belt, so you aren't going to overqualify yourself like you might with an advanced degree and no experience. This is a solid strategy, but if you have a specialty you want and work it out with great faculty you can get your degree paid for, live the college life for a little while longer, defend your thesis, and not worry about school again. Summer internships or interesting problems can still give you fantastic experience. If you go to a work coop just don't forget to finish that thesis!
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Jun 13, 2013 04:58
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Thoguh posted:I think as a general statement in Engineering and related fields you should only go directly to graduate work if you plan on sticking around in research. Otherwise go get a job and let your company pay for it while you go part time. This also means by the time you have your Masters you also have several years of real world experience under your belt, so you aren't going to overqualify yourself like you might with an advanced degree and no experience. I don't doubt that this is a good idea from a money/career standpoint but dear god going to school and working can make your life suck hard. I didn't think it would be as bad as it is but if you want to finish in a reasonable span you are going to be either spending most evenings doing school work or doing a 7 day work week to finish homework. And I genuinely enjoy my coursework, just don't underestimate the workload.
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Jun 13, 2013 05:26
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movax posted:What do you think the salaries for that position should be out of curiosity? I don't know if I'm off-base expecting considerably more for that for that given job/responsibilities. Yeah, that was an example of a laughable job listing. It'd depend on where you are and what industry you're in: a) Intermediate engineer is generally the 4-8 year experience range in my experience. It's the first few years after you get your PE/P.Eng/Whatever normally. Sometimes it'll be up to the 10 year range, but it's stretching it. b) According to our local association, that kind of experience level and responsibility puts you around a mean of $100,000 to $110,000 in total compensation. High quartile's around $130,000, low quartile's around $85,000. That's across all disciplines. You see a reasonable number of job ads where they give a title, them list qualifications that are above what that title would normally do and then a salary that's way below what even the understated title would earn.
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Jun 13, 2013 05:30
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an skeleton posted:It's cool, I actually wanted to go into Bioinformatics or something more Biology oriented with BME, my idea was that the engineering part made me also able to branch into engineering, but I guess while that may kind of be true Computer Science will also let me do Bioinformatics or branch into a lot of other cool, granted non-engineering, poo poo. Take CS. Find Bio professors at your school and do computer stuff for them. Bio Ph.Ds are lovely computer programmers, and there is a shitton of programming needed for biology/bioinformatics. As you get into junior/senior year, take whatever distributed computing / database / big data type classes your school offers. GPU and GPGPU classes too. Employers kill for people with those skills, both in the medical industry and out.
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Jun 13, 2013 06:52
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evensevenone posted:Take CS. Find Bio professors at your school and do computer stuff for them. Bio Ph.Ds are lovely computer programmers, and there is a shitton of programming needed for biology/bioinformatics. As you get into junior/senior year, take whatever distributed computing / database / big data type classes your school offers. GPU and GPGPU classes too. Alright awesome. Thank you.
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Jun 13, 2013 07:19
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OctaviusBeaver posted:I don't doubt that this is a good idea from a money/career standpoint but dear god going to school and working can make your life suck hard. I didn't think it would be as bad as it is but if you want to finish in a reasonable span you are going to be either spending most evenings doing school work or doing a 7 day work week to finish homework. And I genuinely enjoy my coursework, just don't underestimate the workload.
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Jun 13, 2013 10:57
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evensevenone posted:Take CS. Find Bio professors at your school and do computer stuff for them. Bio Ph.Ds are lovely computer programmers, and there is a shitton of programming needed for biology/bioinformatics. As you get into junior/senior year, take whatever distributed computing / database / big data type classes your school offers. GPU and GPGPU classes too. In addition, learn some proper software engineering skills. Learn how to use version control. Most scientists I know are okay programmers but are terrible terrible software engineers, so they churn out terrible code.
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Jun 13, 2013 16:09
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Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Jun 13, 2013 17:31
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