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Snix posted:Hey, at the very least, this Flynn or Jack Frost can show up in Smash Bros. Or Raidou Demi-Fiend is my main. 
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Jun 14, 2013 07:59
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Snix posted:SMT is the third biggest RPG series in Japan, just under Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy respectively. If Index goes under, Nintendo isn't going to let Atlus perish with them. Something something electric rodent something something.
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Jun 14, 2013 08:44
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Sir Unimaginative posted:Demi-Fiend is my main. Raidou's technically ok for Smash because he's appeared in the Soul Hackers port, but if Nintendo buys Atlus and doesn't use the Demi-Fiend at all before the next Smash Bros, would he be ok for inclusion?
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Jun 14, 2013 14:01
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I really hope if anything Sony buys them out because I'd hate to see the future of the series hamstrung by the 3DS and Wii U  I was already pretty disappointed at SMT4 being 3ds, especially after seeing how great Golden looks on the Vita.
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Jun 14, 2013 14:27
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I swear to god if Persona 5 ends up being a Wii-U exclusive Either way,
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Jun 14, 2013 14:27
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Either Nintendo or Sony would be fine by me. Just so long as it's not Microsoft. E: vvv Yeah that was kind of a dumb thing to say. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 14:35
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Nate RFB posted:Either Nintendo or Sony would be fine by me. Just so long as it's not Microsoft. Given the new XBox doesn't even run in Japan, I'm pretty sure Microsoft has no interest whatsoever in acquiring Japanese developers.
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Jun 14, 2013 14:38
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I really hope if anything Sony buys them out because I'd hate to see the future of the series hamstrung by the 3DS and Wii U Stop trying to crush my Trauma Center dreams.
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Jun 14, 2013 14:39
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We both know that Atlus had no intention of ever gracing us with Trauma Team 2 or Trauma Center 3.
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Jun 14, 2013 14:44
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I really hope if anything Sony buys them out because I'd hate to see the future of the series hamstrung by the 3DS and Wii U How would it be hamstrung though? Sony getting Atlus would be more likely to kill the series than Nintendo. If SMT doesn't do well in Japan, SMT is dead, since it's nothing but a tiny niche product outside of that market. Traditional consoles are dead in Japan, and the Vita is being crushed by the 3DS. And as popular as SMT is, it's not enough to inject serious life into the system by itself. At the moment the best way to keep the series alive is to keep it on the 3DS. Also SMT4 looks awesome on the 3DS. The 3D is done really, really well, better than almost any other game I've played on the system.
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Jun 14, 2013 15:17
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Just from pictures it looked pretty bad graphics wise, and the whole first person battle system (which I realize is a return to the older games in the series) seemed like system limitations. And I had been avoiding most videos and information for the most part, so I'm fully prepared to concede that it was just due to bad/early screen shots. But if it looks good in action then I'm fine with it, I just think it could benefit from a more powerful handheld. And I was under the impression that ever since the Japanese price cut, the Vita had been doing pretty well in Japan? I never saw hard numbers but polls and stuff seemed to make it seem very appealing to the Japanese crowd lately. Which is why I thought it'd have a good home with Sony. Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 15:24
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Plus it's not as if even console SMT games are particularly hardware intensive. I'm sure you could put any of the PS2 SMT games on the 3DS and they'd probably look better if anything. I'm sure that Nintendo wouldn't say no to a console game either, if only because they're not really in a position to say no to any third parties. It could end up as a Bayonetta 2 scenario, where your choices are playing the game on a console you might otherwise not have bought, or the game not existing at all.
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Jun 14, 2013 15:26
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Snix posted:SMT is the third biggest RPG series in Japan, just under Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy respectively. If Index goes under, Nintendo isn't going to let Atlus perish with them. This might have been true twenty years ago but not now. Kingdom Hearts at the very least is way more popular and I'm pretty sure Tales sells more as well. JRPGs in general just aren't as popular or prolific which makes me think the bigger publishers probably wouldn't be super interested in Atlus's IPs. Ibram Gaunt posted:And I was under the impression that ever since the Japanese price cut, the Vita had been doing pretty well in Japan? I never saw hard numbers but polls and stuff seemed to make it seem very appealing to the Japanese crowd lately. Which is why I thought it'd have a good home with Sony. Vita had some decent weeks right after its price cut but now it's right back to were it was selling before. It seems destined to be basically a portable 360 in Japan, good for super-niche otaku games and the occasional western thing like Assassins Creed.
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Jun 14, 2013 15:34
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Prism posted:Given the new XBox doesn't even run in Japan, I'm pretty sure Microsoft has no interest whatsoever in acquiring Japanese developers. Is this true? What's the source for this?
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Jun 14, 2013 15:44
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Are the SMT games fairly stand alone, or if I come into the main series at 4 am I going to be lost? Xbone Info
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Jun 14, 2013 15:49
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crazkylo posted:Are the SMT games fairly stand alone, or if I come into the main series at 4 am I going to be lost? You'll be fine just jumping into 4. SMT2 was a direct sequel, if memory serves, but that's the only one.
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Jun 14, 2013 15:52
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King of Solomon posted:You'll be fine just jumping into 4. SMT2 was a direct sequel, if memory serves, but that's the only one. Well, the ps2 devil summoner and the digital devil saga were direct sequels.
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Jun 14, 2013 16:02
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DrManiac posted:Well, the ps2 devil summoner and the digital devil saga were direct sequels. Those aren't the main series, though. EDIT: And Digital Devil Saga 2 was the second half of the story, not a sequel (like Raidou 2.)
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Jun 14, 2013 16:03
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King of Solomon posted:Those aren't the main series, though. Megami Tensei 2 is a sequel to Megami Tensei 1, and you could sort of call that the main series (given that Shin is the reboot) Also Soul Hackers is a sequel to Devil Summoner, but again that's not really the main series--though it is kind of an alternate-universe to SMT1, since there's mention of Thorman dying of a heart attack in Devil Summoner and the Americans narrowly stopping Japan from being nuked. 
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Jun 14, 2013 16:12
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Genpei Turtle posted:How would it be hamstrung though? Sony getting Atlus would be more likely to kill the series than Nintendo. If SMT doesn't do well in Japan, SMT is dead, since it's nothing but a tiny niche product outside of that market. Traditional consoles are dead in Japan, and the Vita is being crushed by the 3DS. And as popular as SMT is, it's not enough to inject serious life into the system by itself. At the moment the best way to keep the series alive is to keep it on the 3DS. Really it's going to be up to what Atlus wants to target. At this point Persona games are expected to be pretty with high-res ~anime~ so I would never expect it to appear on the 3DS. They could change targets here if they wanted, but Atlus hasn't really been a company that rocks boats lately with their flagships. I'd personally be shocked if Persona 5 didn't appear on the PS3 though. Ibram Gaunt posted:Just from pictures it looked pretty bad graphics wise, and the whole first person battle system (which I realize is a return to the older games in the series) seemed like system limitations. If you read the actual fiscal reports, Sony seems vaguely okay with this, but it seems to be causing wrinkles in getting developers to actually bite off on the system (such as Capcom having no desire to put monster hunter on the system, although that might be more due to the fact they don't want to compete against Phantasy Star Online?). Vita got little mention at the E3 press releases, but apparently it had a massive presence on the actual E3 floor (you'll hear the number 85 thrown around but I think that's the # of vita games in dev, not the count of what was on the floor) so I think a lot of it might just be a weird perspective/expectation mismatch on the public's part? Not sure, vita is a hard system to form an informed opinion on at this very moment. Vita games sure do look pretty as gently caress though :< Rascyc fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 16:43
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Genpei Turtle posted:Megami Tensei 2 is a sequel to Megami Tensei 1, and you could sort of call that the main series (given that Shin is the reboot) Wait, hold up. HOLD THE gently caress UP. Are you telling me that all this crazy fanon about the spin-offs (and some of the sequels) being Alternate Universes of the two main Super Famicom games I've read about isn't utter, one-hundred percent bullshit? I know there are hints here and there within the games but-- Holy crap. That's well over 20 years of a continuity of sorts. 
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Jun 14, 2013 16:49
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The_Frag_Man posted:Is this true? What's the source for this? As posted right below mine, or http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer for the official post so you know it's not just a rumour. Prism fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 16:51
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Wark Say posted:Wait, hold up. HOLD THE gently caress UP. Are you telling me that all this crazy fanon about the spin-offs (and some of the sequels) being Alternate Universes of the two main Super Famicom games I've read about isn't utter, one-hundred percent bullshit? I know there are hints here and there within the games but-- Holy crap. That's well over 20 years of a continuity of sorts. Basically. There's been enough hints in each game that you can piece together a decent approximation. IIRC, the major split happens after Thorman drops the hammer ( ) on Japan: one timeline leads to the main Megaten games, the other leads to the Persona series (starting with If...., due to the appearance of Tamaki in P2 onwards). Add to that the confirmation of alternate universes being present in other games, allowing for the existence of games like DDS and so on and yeah, you've got a pretty solid continuity, with the bonus of people not whining about it as with the Zelda timeline!
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Jun 14, 2013 16:57
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^^^ Er, no. There is definitely not a solid continuity between all SMT games and their spinoffs. Even the most overt of the connections are really subtle, like the aforementioned radio broadcast.Wark Say posted:Wait, hold up. HOLD THE gently caress UP. Are you telling me that all this crazy fanon about the spin-offs (and some of the sequels) being Alternate Universes of the two main Super Famicom games I've read about isn't utter, one-hundred percent bullshit? I know there are hints here and there within the games but-- Holy crap. That's well over 20 years of a continuity of sorts. I'd say it's only about 90% bullshit. Atlus loves making obscure references to previous games in the series. Most of it is just winks and nods to fans of the series, and nearly all the crazy bullshit fanon comes from people reading way too much into said references. Devil Summoner is pretty much the only example that's really explicit. Early in the game you go into a bar and there are a bunch of random news reports you can hear. One of which has the aforementioned story about Thorman having a heart attack and a mysterious missile launch being stopped. Actually, there's one in Persona 1 too--one of the minor sub-characters is a strong reference to the heroine of Shin Megami Tensei If... (if you pick the female character) she looks exactly the same and talks about her time fighting demons at her "old school." (presumably the school in If..., whose students also show up in Persona 2) That's pretty much it though. With a few other minor exceptions, everything else is pretty much bullshit fanon, and that hole goes really deep. ed: Also it's probably worth mentioning that SMT If... was basically a "What if SMT1 never happened" entry to start with. It--and the games that have connection with it--can be considered to be an "alternate timeline" of sorts, but connections to other series--Last Bible, Majin Tensei, Nocturne, Strange Journey, DDS, SMT4, Devil Survivor, etc. are purely in the realm of fanon with people reading too much into minor cameos and the like. Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 17:14
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Genpei Turtle posted:Megami Tensei 2 is a sequel to Megami Tensei 1, and you could sort of call that the main series (given that Shin is the reboot) What kind of loser god dies from a heart attack? Thor, you suck. I'd buy alcohol poisoning, though.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:30
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What I'm getting out of this is that the SMT timeline is a very complicated maze. If I had to make a simplified guess it'd go: SMT1->2 If and Devil Summoner (no missiles)->Persona timeline MarsDragon posted:What kind of loser god dies from a heart attack? Thor, you suck. Thor just had one too many bottles of wine.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:32
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Maybe Thorman was just a human in that one? One can hope Thor isn't that lame.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:32
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Booky posted:What I'm getting out of this is that the SMT timeline is a very complicated maze. I'd say that's a pretty good approximation of the extent of connections. quote:Thor just had one too many bottles of wine. Hey, someone has to watch the stock while the Einherjar are out fighting!
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Jun 14, 2013 17:33
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Genpei Turtle posted:I'd say that's a pretty good approximation of the extent of connections. I think Atlus released an 'official' (dunno if this is 100% true now, but still) timeline around Nocturne (in the documentary thing, I think), so I'll try and dig that up.  Here it is:  If you ignore Devil Children and NINE, it's basically what I guessed. And the Einherjar should lock their shelves next time they fight. 
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Jun 14, 2013 17:48
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Wait what? That's impossible. How can NINE be after SMT2? I thought Tokyo Millennium was being "built" in that game and it led directly into 2!
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Jun 14, 2013 17:51
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Tallgeese posted:Wait what? That's impossible. How can NINE be after SMT2? I thought Tokyo Millennium was being "built" in that game and it led directly into 2! I dunno, man!  I think I'll just stick to my guess earlier, it makes more sense than trying to puzzle this out. 
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Jun 14, 2013 17:55
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Booky posted:I dunno, man! Yeah, that makes zero sense. NINE was supposed to take place in between the beginning and the end of SMT1, but I think they're conveniently forgetting that it ever existed for obvious reasons. I think that's less a timeline but a measurement of the franchises' development has branched off. You can see how all of the titles are in chronological order with the oldest at the top and the newest at the bottom too.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:57
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I'm more confused as to how the timeline reunited after P2 IS/EP. There's no future in the IS world! And Thor just has to hook up his drinking horn to the ocean, the Einherjar locking the wine cabinet might not help.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:59
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Genpei Turtle posted:Yeah, that makes zero sense. NINE was supposed to take place in between the beginning and the end of SMT1, but I think they're conveniently forgetting that it ever existed for obvious reasons. Ohhh, yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks! Persona 2 was released with only a year apart between IS and EP, which explains why they're next to each other in the weird chart, for instance. MarsDragon posted:I'm more confused as to how the timeline reunited after P2 IS/EP. There's no future in the IS world! I think it's more a chart of when the games were made/released than an actual timeline, it makes more sense. Thor, you have a problem with alcohol.
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Jun 14, 2013 18:03
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Booky posted:Ohhh, yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks! Also the branching off between If... and DS/Persona kind of suggests it too. As crappy a game as If... was, both spinoffs pretty much derived from it--Persona taking the Guardian system and Devil Summoner taking Party Alignment and Front/Back ranks.
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Jun 14, 2013 18:05
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Well, dang. The rabbit hole does go really deep. Naoya's totally a better programmer than Akemi and STEVEN, though. (Demon Summoning Program-wise)
Wark Say fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 19:53
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Doesn't Imagine take place specifically long after the nuking as well? Was there anything in Strange Journey that prevents it from being say, in the same setting as Persona 3 and 4? It was just a "weird poo poo happening in modern day, high tech task force sent to check it out" kind of thing yeah? Maybe Persona 5 could mention the mission on the news or something. Edit: The idea of Devil Children linking to anything is hilarious. Oh yeah, I'm a badass murder demon, but in the past I have manifested as a cutesy pet and hung out with schoolchildren. Light Gun Man fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 21:54
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Pureauthor posted:Something something electric rodent something something. Joshlemagne posted:This might have been true twenty years ago but not now. Kingdom Hearts at the very least is way more popular and I'm pretty sure Tales sells more as well. JRPGs in general just aren't as popular or prolific which makes me think the bigger publishers probably wouldn't be super interested in Atlus's IPs. Okay, maybe fourth or fifth, if Kingdom Hearts counts, but SMTIV sold 80% of it's first shipment. It has a huge dedicated fanbase in Japan, and a niche, but decently-sized and dedicated fanbase in the US and UK. Nintendo currently has a good relationship with Atlus, and I don't think they're going to let the fall of Index take Atlus with them. Hell, P4G single single handedly boosted the sale of Vitas, so Sony might try to get a piece of the pie themselves. Granted, a lot of this is wishful thinking, but I really don't think Atlus is going to have trouble finding a publisher when something inevitably happens to Index.
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Jun 15, 2013 00:24
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Snix posted:Okay, maybe fourth or fifth, if Kingdom Hearts counts, but SMTIV sold 80% of it's first shipment. It has a huge dedicated fanbase in Japan, and a niche, but decently-sized and dedicated fanbase in the US and UK. Nintendo currently has a good relationship with Atlus, and I don't think they're going to let the fall of Index take Atlus with them. Hell, P4G single single handedly boosted the sale of Vitas, so Sony might try to get a piece of the pie themselves. If they had shipped fewer, they could have sold 100% of the shipment! Never underestimate the mental gymnastics of a lesser JRPG fanatic.
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Jun 15, 2013 00:32
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I hope that means that SMTIV will have a lot of printings down the line; I don't intend to buy it quite near the release date after all.
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