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Powercrazy posted:As has been said before, everyone who wants to try weed has tried it. It isn't some kind of unknown, exotic or even novel thing. However there is a lot of baggage associated with federal drug policy, and a few states legalizing weed is just skirting the issue, and I don't think many people in this thread appreciate that fact. This is pretty wrong. There's plenty of nerdy/spergy/generally socially maladjusted or otherwise just super "square" individuals that would love to try it but don't have the connections, social skills, or balls to go out and find some on the black market. They are pretty excited that they can now go into a store, explain their situation to a helpful employee, and leave with both the knowledge and means to get hella baked. They don't give a gently caress that it is against some monolithic federal law towering in the distance as long as they are not going to get arrested and are able to easily access the stuff in a normal consumer-oriented store environment. Don't believe me? I've personally spoken to numerous people that are in this boat, and there's a whole bunch more that are probably too nervous to even voice their opinions on the matter. It seems like you don't like the "hey man just smoke a joint and unite the world" types, and that's fine. But how does that matter at all in the economics of this thing, again? wilfredmerriweathr fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 19:04
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Those people who are morally forced to follow some laws, but ok breaking others, better not have a job where they get drug-tested. Because that random monolithic law that doesn't affect them, will suddenly have a lot more impact when they lose their job.
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Jun 14, 2013 19:13
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I know only one person who is under the threat of drug testing at work and thus forgoes getting stoned. I know numerous people who are under the threat of drug testing at work and get stoned anyway. People are going to get stoned anyway. Especially if they are on vacation. Unless you work in the defense industry or run a nuclear reactor or drive a bus or something it's just not a big deal.
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Jun 14, 2013 19:17
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Smoking weed is not a big deal, but it's a big enough deal that you'll only do it if it is quasi-legal, in a subset of states?
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Jun 14, 2013 19:19
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Powercrazy posted:Smoking weed is not a big deal, but it's a big enough deal that you'll only do it if it is quasi-legal, in a subset of states? There is a difference between buying marijuana at a state-regulated store where all I have to do is exchange cash for weed, and trying to find contacts to obtain an (somewhat)illegal substance. I wouldn't even know where to start looking. But now(well, shortly) I don't have to bother.
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Jun 14, 2013 19:22
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Powercrazy posted:Smoking weed is not a big deal, but it's a big enough deal that you'll only do it if it is quasi-legal, in a subset of states? Potentially yes? You and others in this thread have repeatedly made the case for the safety of a regulated market, and while by and large weed is pretty harmless/nigh impossible to get in a hosed up form, there are plenty of people who genuinely didn't smoke weed because it was completely illegal and thus came with too many headaches. You had to find someone willing to break the immediate law (state law) to sell it to you (which lowers convinience). You had to accept that the smell of weed or transporting it on your person could cause you to be hassled or arrested, and for many jobs any arrest is grounds for termination. You had to accept that it could show on a drug test and screw you. And of course you had to accept that it could jeopardize a variety of legal issues like custody of children or access to public services. By contrast now, you may still have some of those worries, but the biggest ones (will be pulled over and arrested after driving 10+ miles to meet my obnoxious as gently caress dealer at his mother's trailer home, will then lose my job and legal rights) are heavily mitigated or done away with. Powercrazy posted:Those people who are morally forced to follow some laws, but ok breaking others, better not have a job where they get drug-tested. Because that random monolithic law that doesn't affect them, will suddenly have a lot more impact when they lose their job. Not every company that does drug testing is still testing for marijuana. My company put out a memo when 502 passed saying that a positive for THC would now be treated like a positive for alcohol, only an issue if your drug test had to do with an accident or incident. The Seattle Police department did the same. I haven't smoked weed (just analogs) because its been illegal (and I stopped with the analogs when my state banned them), and not being able to smoke it has genuinely been no real skin off my back. It sounded like fun, but the risks really weren't worth the reward. Once I can buy it in a state regulated store, where I know what I'm getting and I can get it at consistent hours, and the risks are pretty much down to "are the DEA going to be AMAZINGLY spiteful," I probably will go try it because why not?
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Jun 14, 2013 19:37
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http://www.ktuu.com/news/treadwell-certifies-initiative-application-to-legalize-marijuana-061413,0,6977520.storyquote:ANCHORAGE, Alaska— This could possibly lead to industrial hemp growing up here too, which would be insanely profitable in the summetime.
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Jun 15, 2013 02:55
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Hell in Alaska you can still have up to 24 marijuana plants in your home, which was upheld as part of privacy. Glad to see them go done the legalization route.
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Jun 15, 2013 03:13
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:This is pretty wrong. There's plenty of nerdy/spergy/generally socially maladjusted or otherwise just super "square" individuals that would love to try it but don't have the connections, social skills, or balls to go out and find some on the black market. They are pretty excited that they can now go into a store, explain their situation to a helpful employee, and leave with both the knowledge and means to get hella baked. They don't give a gently caress that it is against some monolithic federal law towering in the distance as long as they are not going to get arrested and are able to easily access the stuff in a normal consumer-oriented store environment. I agree with this and it doesn't even consider people like me, who have all day access to it now (know plenty of people who smoke/sell weed here), but don't smoke up b/c of my job. If it was legal (and the job rules were relaxed, big if's of course) I'd smoke up just to try it for sure, and I think I have about 40% of my co-workers in the same boat.
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Jun 15, 2013 13:16
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LP97S posted:Hell in Alaska you can still have up to 24 marijuana plants in your home, which was upheld as part of privacy. Glad to see them go done the legalization route. Yeah it really is a super low priority here considering all our problems with booze and meth.
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Jun 15, 2013 14:25
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Powercrazy posted:The reason it's a point of contention is that people seem to think marijuana is some kind of panacea for social ills. "Imagine if everyone just like smoked weed man, there wouldn't be any war Lets just say I agree that 'everyone who wants to try weed as of today has tried it', then still I'm going to argue that the pool of people who want to try weed is going to grow significantly when it is legal (in their location). You have no idea just how freaked out many people are about breaking the law. People get super paranoid and can't/won't even try. Or are so ingrained with fear that that fear has driven them to write off the substance altogether. It's not even something that was ever seriously considered. Once they hit the item in their mental checklist that says 'Is it legal?' they hit a full-stop and nothing else matters. A friend of mine honeymoons in the Bermudas with his wife. Sometime during the trip, a bartender solicits HIM, asking him if he wants to buy weed. He eventually picks it up - however when the time comes this is basically the situation that unfolds: They (wife and husband) have a joint rolled up in their private suite/hotel place. They are completely alone, very secluded. The wife gets the husband to throw the joint in the toilet, because she is assured that the second she lifts the lit joint to her mouth, DEA agents are going to bust in the room. They flush the joint before a single puff. Maybe goons don't give a crap about breaking the law because any of the following civil disobedience I know I won't get caught I might get caught but I think I can either deal with the consequences or don't care gently caress da police. This is not the norm. This is goons being goons. Basically you're massively underestimating how much changing weed's legal status is going to have on your average consumer's answer to the question 'Have you ever seriously considered smoking weed?' Now is a good time to build/remodel hotels in Colorado, maybe one that is particularly designed/modified to serve drug tourism.
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Jun 15, 2013 20:05
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Nearly half of Americans have tried marijuana and over 10% have used it within the past year. It's really not that rare. I agree that there's definitely going to be some drug tourism. Particularly amongst somewhat older people who have tried marijuana before, but quit when they got real jobs and no longer have any idea where to get it. http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/marijuana-use-increased-over-the-last-decade/
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Jun 15, 2013 20:15
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JollyGreen posted:
I just don't see how that can possibly be the norm. People break the law constantly either knowingly (speeding, whatever) or unknowingly (one of the thousands of out-dated local, state or federal laws) and I don't think anyone has a conniption about it. Are there really people that don't murder just because they are afraid of being caught? I guess in my opinion if you are using the Law as your moral code you are probably a failure of a person. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jun 15, 2013 |
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Jun 15, 2013 20:17
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BIG HORNY COW posted:Yeah it really is a super low priority here considering all our problems with booze and meth. You know, that got me wondering what effect legal weed would have there. You've got these puny isolated towns full of people drinking like Tony Stark because there's not much else to do (or self-medicating themselves for the psychological effects of having little to no sunlight for half the year). Switching to marijuana would probably be a significant improvement. Not as good as addressing the problems driving them to drink, but better than what could ever come from having the government simply order them to stay sober.
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Jun 15, 2013 23:15
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Powercrazy posted:I just don't see how that can possibly be the norm. People break the law constantly either knowingly (speeding, whatever) or unknowingly (one of the thousands of out-dated local, state or federal laws) and I don't think anyone has a conniption about it. Um just because someone doesn't smoke because it's illegal doesn't mean they think it's immoral. My dad, my neighbors, basically everyone I know that is older and have in the past smoked don't do so now because the hassle of buying it and the possibility (however remote it may be) of a criminal record is not something they want to deal with. These are the kind of people that don't do it now but would at least occasionally smoke it if it were legal.
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Jun 15, 2013 23:27
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Powercrazy posted:I just don't see how that can possibly be the norm. People break the law constantly either knowingly (speeding, whatever) or unknowingly (one of the thousands of out-dated local, state or federal laws) and I don't think anyone has a conniption about it. This is such a terrible argument. The consequences of speeding are: a ticket. As far as conventional knowledge is concerned, the consequences of being caught with *DRUGS* are prison and your life is ruined. Recognizing that not all drugs are terribly harmful and that drug laws and their enforcement can usually be generously described as immoral is a slightly more enlightened attitude that is not typical in the real world. I personally know federal government employees who are intensely curious to try marijuana, but don't because it's illegal. I also have a hard time convincing my fiance to share a bowl with me in Colorado because of drug testing. Not everyone's decision process is as simple as "gently caress it it's just weed. " Edit: not to mention the fact that I'm such a hopeless square that it's been pure luck every time I've been able to forrest gump my way into a weed hook up, and am usually only able to steel myself just enough against the criminal-y feeling of the situation to stay in the room. Inspector Hound fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jun 15, 2013 |
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Jun 15, 2013 23:40
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I'm one of those people who would toke up daily if it was legal if it was legal, but I don't because I've got a grown-up job making grown-up money and there's no way that I'll risk that by getting my name in the police blotter, much less spend time talking to sketchy people now that I'm no longer in college. Colorado legalizing it absolutely makes me more likely to vacation there compared to neighboring states. The number of risk-averse people in the world is pretty large, and writing off their tax dollars would be a pretty stupid idea.
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Jun 16, 2013 01:42
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:My dad, my neighbors, basically everyone I know that is older and have in the past smoked don't do so now because the hassle of buying it and the possibility (however remote it may be) of a criminal record is not something they want to deal with. These are the kind of people that don't do it now but would at least occasionally smoke it if it were legal. The people who 'would at least occasionally smoke weed if it were legal' are unlikely to be selecting their next holdiay destination based on the lawful availability of it. Who are these people who haven't tried weed because it's 'all too hard/too much of a hassle' who would suddenly be prepared to invest effort into travelling thousands of miles to get it? Whilst it can never be known for sure, I would imagine the real reason most people who try weed don't become regular users or stop altogether is because it's a pretty drat ordinary high. Edit: I say this as someone who plans to visit CO and WA from Australia because they legalised it. I don't want to smoke it, I just want to shake a few hands for having courage to do it. I am, however, as Powercrazy suggests, an anomaly. KingEup fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jun 16, 2013 |
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Jun 16, 2013 01:51
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KingEup posted:The people who 'would at least occasionally smoke weed if it were legal' are unlikely to be selecting their next holdiay destination based on the lawful availability of it. Do you know how many Americans travelled to Cuba during prohibition so that they could drink legally? Despite the fact that illegal alcohol was readily available in America? Because the stuff in Cuba was higher quality and you didn't have to go to a dank basement to drink it in secret? This is really not all that perplexing.
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Jun 16, 2013 01:57
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KingEup posted:The people who 'would at least occasionally smoke weed if it were legal' are unlikely to be selecting their next holdiay destination based on the lawful availability of it. The idea isn't that a middle manager from Akron, Ohio who always kind of wanted to try weed or wants to relive his high school days will drop everything and head to Seattle or Denver because "oh my god weed is legal there, book me a next day flight and drat the expense!" Instead, when his old buddy who lives in Washington calls him up and says, "dude, come on out!" he'll be a bit more likely to say yes, and spend a few bucks more on sweet sweet legal weed when he's here. Legal weed isn't a reason for many people to book a vacation by itself, but it's likely to influence a few people to choose WA or CO over other competing destinations. The end result is still more tourism dollars sloshing into the local economy.
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Jun 16, 2013 02:00
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I'm moving out there in a few months. Legal Cannabis definitely helped sway my decision.
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Jun 16, 2013 02:47
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Is it obvious that weed is legal in the State? How much has change Washington and Colorado goons?
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Jun 16, 2013 06:59
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Tab8715 posted:Is it obvious that weed is legal in the State? How much has change Washington and Colorado goons? Nothing yet, except some "but one, get some weed" shennanigans. Real change will be coming in January. Edit: Colorado Inspector Hound fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jun 16, 2013 |
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Jun 16, 2013 07:14
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It's not just retail jobs. Many corporate positions drug test - I assume to get discounts on insurance, or because one arm of the business involves retail or safety sensitive positions and they want to apply the policy equally. Luckily these types of positions rarely so random testing. Radbot fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jun 16, 2013 |
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Jun 16, 2013 16:22
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Radbot posted:It's not just retail jobs. Many corporate positions drug test - I assume to get discounts on insurance, or because one arm of the business involves retail or safety sensitive positions and they want to apply the policy equally. Yep and there's why nobody cares when they think of trying weed in one of the now legal states. You only get drug tested when you get the job, not afterward. Drug testing costs money, and they can usually get the insurance break in an office setting if they just test upon hire. Not to mention that I've heard a few stories from friends about getting hired after a piss test even though they undoubtedly pissed hot for THC. I think in some cases they just sort of ignore weed use.
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Jun 16, 2013 16:39
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Yep and there's why nobody cares when they think of trying weed in one of the now legal states. You only get drug tested when you get the job, not afterward. Drug testing costs money, and they can usually get the insurance break in an office setting if they just test upon hire. Not to mention that I've heard a few stories from friends about getting hired after a piss test even though they undoubtedly pissed hot for THC. I think in some cases they just sort of ignore weed use. I got denied a job in 08 in VA and reapplied 6 months later like they said, and while I signed the same drug test paperwork I never had to actually give them a second drug test.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:46
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Tab8715 posted:Is it obvious that weed is legal in the State? How much has change Washington and Colorado goons? There are no retail stores yet, but there are medical dispensaries pretty much everywhere and now everyone is growing their own too.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:02
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I am not a book posted:I'm one of those people who would toke up daily if it was legal if it was legal, but I don't because I've got a grown-up job making grown-up money and there's no way that I'll risk that by getting my name in the police blotter, much less spend time talking to sketchy people now that I'm no longer in college. Colorado legalizing it absolutely makes me more likely to vacation there compared to neighboring states. I hope you don't get tested after taking a vacation to Colorado and lose your grown-up job making grown-up money because they know that you vacationed in a state where it is legal. That would surely make you a criminal.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:59
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Sure, the only way they can detect your use at all is by scientific examination of your bodily fluids, and not by behavior, job performance or anything else, but it is very important that your employers know what you do at home in your living room. Make sure to report yourself if you break any sodomy laws so they can fire you like the criminal you are.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:21
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The point is legality isn't and shouldn't be the barrier you care about if you are all grown-up.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:27
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I know people who have passed piss tests after smoking less than 24 hours beforehand. You basically have to drown yourself with water, but it's possible.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:36
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Just go to your local headshop and ask to buy some synthetic urine.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:48
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Powercrazy posted:The point is legality isn't and shouldn't be the barrier you care about if you are all grown-up. Uhh, you know what happens when you get caught with drugs in America right? In a lot of places weed will just get you fined, but it's also one of the main ways we feed the prison-industrial complex. Not smoking weed because you don't want your life ruined by the American penal system is a pretty grown-up choice.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:52
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Muck and Mire posted:Uhh, you know what happens when you get caught with drugs in America right? In a lot of places weed will just get you fined, but it's also one of the main ways we feed the prison-industrial complex. Not smoking weed because you don't want your life ruined by the American penal system is a pretty grown-up choice. On the other hand, Martin Luther King argued that we have a moral obligation to disobey unjust laws. Suppose someone who eventually goes to work at the DEA had a friend who smoked cannabis, and they had a bunch of misconceptions about it beforehand. Through that friendship, it softened their view of it, dispelled some of the propaganda, and they then did what they could to improve DEA policy.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:57
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Miltank posted:Just go to your local headshop and ask to buy some synthetic urine.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:23
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Doesn't work for the tests where they look at your dick. Drug tests for jobs are not supervised.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:36
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:Drug tests for jobs are not supervised.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:50
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I apologize if this question has already been asked, but with the portion of the law limiting store licenses for locations with 1000 feet of a school/etc., what happens if a license is approved and a store is opened, but a school is later built within that 1000 foot range? Would the store be forced to relocate, or would it be grand-fathered in?
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Jun 17, 2013 18:03
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Miltank posted:Just go to your local headshop and ask to buy some synthetic urine. Get some with uric acid though, labs are catching onto synthetic urine. They'll also require a re-test if your urine is too diluted with water, to address the post above yours.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:12
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:Drug tests for jobs are not supervised. In the army an NCO actually watches you urinate.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:13
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