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DaveKap posted:Also loved this little bit:
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Jun 17, 2013 00:23
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ViggyNash posted:Unfortunately, no. Im mad because this show had the potential to go in one of many fantastic directions and they chose the boring shounen path.
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Jun 17, 2013 00:58
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ViggyNash posted:Unfortunately, no. Im mad because this show had the potential to go in one of many fantastic directions and they chose the boring shounen path. 
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Jun 17, 2013 01:17
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Dammit man, I don't know if I can deal with that.
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Jun 17, 2013 01:21
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I think it's funny that anyone complains about the pacing of the show while I quite often find myself saying "whew, glad that's out of the way" over things that normally take 2 or more episodes to solve in other anime shows. In this episode, we had soldiers rebelling, the retelling of the story about humans uniting over an external threat (hey Watchmen howyadoin,) the soldiers being convinced to fight, the explanation of a strategy, the exposing of the truth that the 20% death march was a culling, the explanation of how worse things could get, Eren talking to glasses girl, Eren becoming a titan. In most shows, pick 1 or 2 of these things and it would be the entirety of a single episode's plot. (I could easily come up with examples for how any of these could have been extended to 10 minutes long but I'd rather not have a post made up primarily of spoilers.) You'd spend the whole episode thinking "yeah, I get it, can we get this out of the way yet?" and call it "worse than DBZ or Bleach." But in this show's case, we're getting it all out of the way rather quickly, hopefully so we don't need to bring it back up again. I think the only problem with the past 3 episodes is that we're getting a lot of "get it out of the way" information all at once. I don't know where this show is going but to me it feels like the first 8 episodes were season one and the last 3 episodes have just been setting up season 2 and I can't help but suspect the next few are going to be fantastic. I'm not holding my breath, but I am crossing my fingers.
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Jun 17, 2013 02:05
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I just shotgunned through the last three episodes, it was a little slow but it was pretty tolerable watching them one after another. Anyways, don't know if this has been brought up but it looks like we got an explanation for the colossal titan's teleportation in ep 9 right? When Eren transformed there was lightning and smoke/steam just like when the giant guy appeared. 
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Jun 17, 2013 04:31
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The problem with that theory is that the body still takes time to dissolve away even if the supposed human controlling it gets out, but the big dude seemed to disappear as suddenly as he appears.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:04
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ViggyNash posted:The problem with that theory is that the body still takes time to dissolve away even if the supposed human controlling it gets out, but the big dude seemed to disappear as suddenly as he appears. The Colossal Titan constantly lets out steam, which tells me that he's constantly taking damage. Partially from having exposed skin, but no doubt also because maintaining a body the size of the Colossal Titan must be incredibly expensive. That's why the Colossal Titan disappears so quickly after he shows up: his sheer size takes an astronomical amount of energy to keep going, and he can only absorb so much sun at a time. His lack of skin might also be a part of this: skin could be really "expensive" for a titan to reproduce (perhaps their skin, like leaves, have the ability to photosynthesize energy from sunlight, the process requiring certain chemicals and micro-organs which are more expensive than standard muscle tissue), so the Colossal Titan has no skin because making enough skin to cover the Colossal Titan would cost way too much. The Colossal Titan, taking constant damage from having exposed tissue and having to "pay" the upkeep just to live, along with having no "income" from sunlight-gathering skin, can only exist for a short time before disappearing.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:20
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ViggyNash posted:The problem with that theory is that the body still takes time to dissolve away even if the supposed human controlling it gets out, but the big dude seemed to disappear as suddenly as he appears. Well we've only seen Eren in his titan mode and he doesn't really know what he's doing. I was thinking if there is a dude who morphs into the big titan they would probably have pretty good control over the ability with a way to revert back as quickly as they transformed into it.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:53
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Segmentation Fault posted:3D Movement Gear Tech Sasha Blouze, "Tuberbop" 
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Jun 17, 2013 07:12
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ViggyNash posted:Unfortunately, no. Im mad because this show had the potential to go in one of many fantastic directions and they chose the boring shounen path. I kind of want to reassure you that you'd end up eating those words eventually but at the same time if three slow-but-not-terrible episodes are enough to make you hate an otherwise very enjoyable show you probably don't get much enjoyment out of anything.
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Jun 17, 2013 07:37
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Maybe I might have continued to enjoy this series if I was watching it in one stretch, so later on down the line I might do a marathon of the series to see if that ends up being less aggravating. I think in particular one of the things that frustrates me about this show is that there is a large cast of fantastic side characters that never do anything because the show has tunnel vision focused on Armin, Misaka, and Eren. It would have been amazing to see how the various personalities of the recruits would handle this battle against the titans. But even besides that, why spend those couple of episodes introducing us to those characters if they ended up being menial background characters? Like I said before, it is the discrepancy between the staggering amount of potential this show had and its chosen generic path that is pissing me off about this show.
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Jun 17, 2013 12:49
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I think we're having trouble seeing where you're coming from with the generic-ness?
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Jun 17, 2013 12:53
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The side characters are actually insanely one-note and boring and the cool part of the show is its subversion of Shonen themes and the overarching subtext of child abuse and western imperialism. It's cool to me that the show manages to express the superiority complex inherent to many eastern asian nations (the invaders are slackjawed retards who just crush stuff) with the crushing reality of military might oppressing the nation (the giants are crushing and eating everyone). I think the show is a good commentary on the post A-bomb disaster inspired works like Godzilla that tries to tie that apocalyptic event in with current cultural psychology. It is a bad and dumb show if you watch it to be about eating potatoes and spidermans fighting tall guys.
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Jun 17, 2013 13:32
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1) Suddenly, shounen superpowers. 2) Pixis intro was baller as hell, but then he gives the most generic "I am a charismatic leader, listen to me" speech. 3) Despite learning that he can transform into a giant rage titan, he does not seem to make a big deal out of it which makes him feel pretentiously like a strong-willed badass hero figure. It's as if they want to force the hero archetype on him 4) The side characters' random "cameos" (because they only appear for a few seconds each) seem forced in like the directer wanted to say "hey look, there's still side characters like any normal show" 5) Glasses girl's speech was a pretty generic "war is bad because people die" speech. 6) Eren/Misaka talk before starting attack was a pretty standard "go where it's safe because I don't want to lose you"/"I have to protect you" conversation. What happens after that is just plain weird and made no sense. I think what I meant to say was that the show was trying to be generic despite a very unique premise and setting.
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Jun 17, 2013 13:43
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The filler episodes were not very good
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Jun 17, 2013 13:46
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ViggyNash posted:1) Suddenly, shounen superpowers. 1) If you really think that's the direction this show is going then you should keep watching. 2) And? A show doesn't have to be perfect 100% of the time to be good. 3) See 1. Eren be crazy. 4) Some of those scenes are allot more important than you think. 5) That was animé original content. 6) I think this was too.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:06
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I've usually kept quiet while enjoying the anime thread's reactions to things, but this is a bit silly. The manga introduced a lot of these "generic" elements pretty early on and set some expectations, many of which were later pretty solidly shattered (to the point where it's more surprising when something is played relatively straight). Though from the looks of it, it seems ViggyNash is just overreacting over nits to pick. The manga thread is still poring over subtext and foreshadowing from real-life years ago in light of recent events. This is not a generic shounen action show, even with Eren's superpowers (which in the manga were introduced before the training arc flashback, just to trick readers into knowing what they're getting into). It's a story about ontological mystery, personal intrigues, and social critique, all while taking a cynical look at shounen tropes. If there's any problem with the recent episodes it's that they're adapting some of the earliest volumes of the manga (and, arguably, the most demographically typical) and stretching with filler for space and budget concerns.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:25
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The latest plot angle has been everyone trying to shoot Eren dead over his new Titan superpowers until a POWER OF FRIENDSHIP speech makes them all calm down and trust in his new abilities to save the day. They formulate a plan, Eren gets into position, he activates his powers, and...promptly starts trying to murder his allies because that is what rage-giants do you loving idiots. Mm, yes, this is as generic and predictable as they come, indeed.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:45
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We've seen two cases already of how Eren's mental state affects his Titan transformation (wishing to destroy all Titans and doing so, then wishing to protect from the cannonball then doing so). I don't see why we can't apply it to the third. In this case it means he was thinking about Mikasa, or frustrated with her over-protectiveness, more than the mission objective of getting the boulder. This episode was pretty poor quality though, and it is sad to see, but let it remind everyone how much a good budget and a fantastic editor can make or break a series. I hope the series gets EVA-esque remake movies.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:59
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To be fair, the anime has included some stuff that is definitely angling towards the generic aspect as original content. Stuff like the speech as they ran along the wall and the Mikasa/Eren argument in the last episode were not in the manga and honestly were pretty bad. Viggynash is still crazy overreactionary though.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:00
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Oxxidation posted:The latest plot angle has been everyone trying to shoot Eren dead over his new Titan superpowers until a POWER OF FRIENDSHIP speech makes them all calm down and trust in his new abilities to save the day. They formulate a plan, Eren gets into position, he activates his powers, and...promptly starts trying to murder his allies because that is what rage-giants do you loving idiots. That's not all that different from certain scenes in Naruto and Bleach, though. It's not like Eren is likely to actually kill Mikasa.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:06
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Well, when the series started I thought to myself "well, it's not like Eren is going to be eaten by a titan"
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Jun 17, 2013 15:20
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Man am I getting poo poo on in the thread. I won't deny that the presentation of facts in the manga (which I haven't read and won't pretend to be knowledgeable about, so I basically came in blind) may have been much better for leading up to future reveals, but as far as the anime I don't like how it's been directed so far. I'll stick with the show until the end of the first season to see where it goes, but I haven't changed my view. It seems to me that the plot reveals are more interesting to people who already know where things are going from having read the manga. What do people who have also watched this blind think of the show so far?
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Jun 17, 2013 15:39
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ViggyNash posted:Man am I getting poo poo on in the thread. Commenting on the bolded part specifically. The manga has this thing where it sets up foreshadowing really, REALLY well, so much so that certain plot twists (not all of them, but some) are a genuine surprise when they're shown, but when you go back and re-read you go "hot drat, how did I miss all of that?!" But a lot of manga fans haven't re-read, so seeing the anime is like their second read of sorts.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:58
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So it sounds like the thrill of he manga is the the way foreshadowing creates a fantastic reveal later down the line. There's been none of that in the anime thus far. Its just been cliffhangers followed by endless monologues followed by more cliffhangers.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:12
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ViggyNash posted:Man am I getting poo poo on in the thread. I started on the manga but I can't definitely see how some of the issues you mentioned are exacerbated in an anime; especially with the slow pace they've taken the last few episodes. I think the "Eren can turn into a Titan" reveal felt sort of shounen-y too back when it happened but I don't think Eren's attitude is "I'm the main character/hero, gently caress yeah!" so much as he's a hate-fueled teenage with a singular drive. Eren is an incredibly broken character. I don't think he's really had an opportunity to really consider his situation outside of "holy poo poo I'm alive after being eaten" and connecting the dots that it might have something to do with his father. It's probably only been what, a few hours since the Recon Squad returned with him? The standoff with the other commander who wanted to blast them wasn't likely more than 10-20 minutes in real time but obviously got stretched a ton thanks to internal monologues and attempts at making it more suspenseful. So I wouldn't equate it to strong-willed badass hero as much as dude who's suddenly had some really crazy crap thrown on his plate who has no options besides this plan or a firing squad. He's desperate. I didn't really mind Pixis speech either, since it was a very good way to get the troops back in line. He wasn't trying to inspire them, he was simply reminding them that abandoning their post means everyone, including their loved ones, is titan food. It really didn't come off as charismatic so much as cold and calculated to force the soldiers to choose to fight over their flight instinct by appealing to what actually mattered to them individually. Definitely agree the glasses chicks speech was a yawn though and way too long. Low point of the episode for me. I didn't really mind the cuts to side characters, given how many people have died so far. It's a nice reminder of who's left and gives you some reactions that the audience is going to have a better chance of empathizing with than the completely random soldiers freaking out. We as an audience haven't formed an emotional connection to those random soldiers over the course of ten episodes, but everyone loves Sasha. Didn't really care for how the Mikasa bit was handled either; I think it would've been more effective if Eren had been interrupted halfway through his little rant instead of after it. I don't think Eren was coming from a "I'll protect you!" angle so much as he feels suffocated by the oppressive way Mikasa tries to protect him. He's striving for independence and the ability to stand on his own; his whole viewpoint towards the eradication of titans and wanting mankind to escape the confines of the wall is just an extension of that. The bit about them not actually being related seemed like it could've also been some self-loathing or anger towards his situation; the fact that he can turn into what he hates most. Granted, I think he more or less just sees himself as an even more effective tool to accomplish his goal, but yeah I can't imagine he's too thrilled about it overall. Just my opinion though, and like I said I have read the manga so I have some additional insight that's probably letting me give stuff a pass that might otherwise bother me as a fresh viewer. Chalupa Picada fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 16:14
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I'm also pretty frustrated. I've never read the manga, but the first three or four hours of this show seemed to have a straight premise of plucky, doomed heroes fighting impossible odds. Even though they died like gnats, often without meaning or purpose, their indomitable desperation would somehow lead them to survival and maybe even victory. Eren's death, while shocking, very much fit the tone of the show they'd established. When he popped back up as Titeren, I really, really enjoyed seeing some Titans get Titowned, but I was also deeply cautious of this change in tone. Suddenly instead of hordes of disposable soldiers, we have a Kamina figure who seems to be moving into a single saviour of mankind trope. It feels like a complete genre jump. Then immediately after, we have three back-to-back filler episodes without the breakneck packing of the first half season, and a few too many speedline-framed talking heads. If there wasn't so much positive goon froth on the boards about this series, I'd be considering dropping it. As it is, I'll give it another few episodes to see it if gets back on track. Titeren rage-punching Mikasa is an encouraging sign that things are about to start happening again.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:24
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See? I'm not the only one frustrated with this show so far. We both came in blind and share similar opinions on the show, so I think the manga must be explaining something that the show is completely glossing over. Yea, I know one person sharing my opinion doesn't validate my claim. I'm just relieved that I'm not a lone wolf.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:31
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Squidster posted:I'm also pretty frustrated. I've never read the manga, but the first three or four hours of this show seemed to have a straight premise of plucky, doomed heroes fighting impossible odds. Even though they died like gnats, often without meaning or purpose, their indomitable desperation would somehow lead them to survival and maybe even victory. Eren's death, while shocking, very much fit the tone of the show they'd established. When he popped back up as Titeren, I really, really enjoyed seeing some Titans get Titowned, but I was also deeply cautious of this change in tone. How do you figure? Titan Eren didn't even fight that long and only took out like 30 or so other titans. Not to mention as revealed in the end of last episode he can't even seem to control it. The big bad seems to be the colossal titan so how do you figure Eren would even take him on as an uncontrollable rage punch machine that goes up to his ankles? Not to mention it seems the enemy Titan supply is nearly endless. Theres no feasible way for him to do it all on his own and its much more likely the the rest of the important cast gets to the basement to become Titan transformers as well. Also I'm confused as to how you can enjoy the first eight episodes greatly then consider dropping it as soon as it starts to slow down and expand on background stuff.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:46
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ViggyNash posted:It seems to me that the plot reveals are more interesting to people who already know where things are going from having read the manga. What do people who have also watched this blind think of the show so far? I'm watching blind as well. I really like the premise and the tone. Like most everyone else here, I think the last three or four episodes were really slow and probably could have been cut down to 2 episodes. I think there are other problems with the show though. For example, I was really annoyed that Mikasa was so good at killing Titans when everyone else was so bad at it, but that's been alleviated a bit by the introduction of the Recon Corps. Er, I also don't really get why everyone loves Pixis so much. I don't dislike him, but he seems like the standard commander archetype, but he also drinks. Maybe there's more of him later in the manga or something. I'm also pretty bored by the fat, decadent, out-of-touch king trope. All told though I think it's a pretty good show and I'm willing to hold out through the current lull to see how things turn out. The last few episodes have left me thinking "well at least the next episode will be good" but this time things literally have to be interesting unless they pull some kind of flashback crap.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:49
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Squidster posted:Suddenly instead of hordes of disposable soldiers, we have a Kamina figure who seems to be moving into a single saviour of mankind trope.  This man is your saviour, he fights for mankind. Plenty of time for things to get hosed up. And for side characters to get some spotlight.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:57
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I haven't read the manga. I complain a lot about the anime. But there's no way I'll stop watching unless they do something retarded like introducing not-Nazis and not-Jews and making the juvenile main characters doubtful members of the not-SS. I still disliked the the first two episodes more than the last ones because I hated the characters, but then the show genuinely surprised me. Maybe it manages that again and maybe there's even a point to the glacial pacing. It seems unlikely at this point, but still possible.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:58
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tiistai posted:
A psychopath with almost palpable bloodlust, who reacts to a girl who is legitimately concerned about him (in a slightly clingy but understandable way) by constantly making aggressive physical gestures to literally force her away while shouting her down. Humanity is saved! 
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Jun 17, 2013 16:59
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Mercrom posted:I haven't read the manga. I complain a lot about the anime. But there's no way I'll stop watching unless they do something retarded like introducing not-Nazis and not-Jews and making the juvenile main characters doubtful members of the not-SS. That sounds awfully specific. What anime did that?
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Jun 17, 2013 17:10
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AdjectiveNoun posted:That sounds awfully specific. What anime did that? Full Metal Alchemist Anime 2003
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Jun 17, 2013 17:11
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Kild posted:Full Metal Alchemist Anime 2003 Nope, Valvrave.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:20
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 Definitely the face of a man about to pierce some heavens. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ FMA was not-Britain and not-India, followed by brand-name Nazis in the movie.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:37
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I was thinking Guilty Crown.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:38
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:The filler episodes were not very good Just want to say that there has not been a single filler episode (following the definition as "things added to slow down the anime's catch-up rate"). It's been a near 1:1 ratio for episodes to chapters. The only major difference is showing the training segment as it happened, instead of having it be a long flashback like the manga.
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