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TotalHell posted:True. But the Sumter memorial is on the east side of the park (as is a white house on the corner). If we interpret "arms" cannons, then I believe the east side of the park is also where most of the cannons are paired off, instead of just sitting singly. (I could be completely misremembering though) The line that has always stumped me is "Below the bar that binds". In general, there are some lines in this puzzle that it's tempting to kind of write off by clutching at confirmation bias and suggesting some general, slightly twisted interpretation, but, when it comes down to it, are about as specific as the verse gets regarding a possible dig spot. What could this be though? Another thing is, the two solves were pinpointed by the verse, so people have said that all the casques must be pinpointed by the verse, but I think we should be open to possibility of something being pinpointed by a picture. (Just general rambling here.) If "on the eighth a scene" relates to a hanging, I wonder exactly where the hanging took place. It would be a pretty morbid locale, but it's not a very happy picture.
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Jun 17, 2013 19:30
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Urban Smurf posted:Cask 8 That is interesting. Nice find! rookhunter posted:Let me upgrade and Ill PM you. Alright then! I'll probably be out of contact for the next 3 hours or so because of driving, so just be patient and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
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Jun 17, 2013 19:38
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BJG posted:...and having given that due consideration, Turn that place over good. There's a casque! There's a casque! You might wanna reread the last part of this thing I said about illegal digging before you go turning any places over good: Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:If you do your digging at a public place, you could also be sued by the city/park owners/etc. for damage of public property, meaning that you might be forced to pay a fine or spend a night in the clink or something. Never ever EVER underestimate a city's ability or desire to sue people for money and/or fines over the dumbest of things, or for the dumbest of reasons. Because chances are that, no matter how stupid it may seem to you, there is somebody out there who is just crazy enough to do it. Even if only to "make an example" out of you.
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Jun 17, 2013 19:48
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Sten Freak posted:Loving this thread though I don't have much to contribute. This is absolutely the first thing I tried when I saw those, unfortunately there's nothing close to noteworthy produced by doing so.
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Jun 17, 2013 19:57
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rookhunter posted:I'm sorry I posted things assuming everyone had history on what I said. Would be nice if someone went and dug at that spot though; probably prove me wrong but either way would find something out. ETA: Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:You might wanna reread the last part of this thing I said about illegal digging before you go turning any places over good: Oswald Kesselpot fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 20:01
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Milwaukeecrashdome posted:I was the one pretty adamant that it wasn't the Grand Staircase. Although I did so simply because 200 doesn't fit at all. Not in address, not in number of steps, and not in any other measurement. There was, however, a Grand Avenue. The 200 could refer to block/address or some other measurement but, "climb" becomes difficult to prove. The term "climb" and "grand" are the only words that fit the staircase and I feel 200 is important for some reason we either haven't figured out OR because it's NOT the Grand Staircase and we are wasting our time casting it in stone as a definitive clue when it could easily just be other things Well, Grand Avenue Mall opened in 1982. It's located on the 200 block of Wisconsin Ave. (previously called Grand Avenue), and it has this quadruple staircase. I can't count the exact number of steps in the image (or in any image I've found), but if each of them has 23, then that will make your "92 steps." There are also various skywalks in the area that may be the "bridge you walk under." There's also Zeidler Union Square, a park across the street south of the mall.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:15
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Sham I Am posted:This one of the ways I figured it as well, all the way up until the bench. Don't get me wrong, i am not saying I am right or you are wrong, I just have 3 issues with that bit. First, I am not so sure that the railing and the trail path are in the illustration; they just seem like poor matches to me (though the bit you are using as the trail in the illustration has bugged me since we started this thread, and the crack that it is coming out of has a very rough resemblance to the marker stone as well). Second, you kind of have to close your eye and squint with the other to make the last standing bit fit with under the bench. And lastly I don't like the idea that you have to take 1 single line "Where White is in color With two maps" out of order when the rest of it seems to be linear in its direction giving. That, and land is worth money. And when people dig holes in land, said land is worth less money. So those holes have to be filled in, which costs that land's owner(s) more money. So the landowners would naturally want to make sure there are as few holes dug in their land as possible, which requires them to sue people and make a public example out of them any time a hole is dug illegaly.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:17
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Dr. Bit posted:Milwaukee It's worth an investigation. I wanted to head over there myself so if you can get there first, I say go for it! Edit: holy crap... I just googled Zeidler Square for images and found this: compass crashdome fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 20:26
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BJG posted:The line that has always stumped me is "Below the bar that binds". In general, there are some lines in this puzzle that it's tempting to kind of write off by clutching at confirmation bias and suggesting some general, slightly twisted interpretation, but, when it comes down to it, are about as specific as the verse gets regarding a possible dig spot. What could this be though? Completely agreed. Below the bar that binds seems super important to pinpointing the location, and we're all having real difficulty accounting for it. It's just so darn vague, and yet nothing quite matching it fits most of the spots we're looking at.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:31
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How did he bury it on Roanoake if it's a crime to dig there? Or is this a more recent law.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:37
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Sham I Am posted:Which image/verse is this in relation too? Probably the Onion domed building that's evident in the image that's believed to belong to NYC. These aren't common in US architecture, so it should be easy to find. Still, I've been unable to find a building anywhere in the US that matches that outline. Urban Smurf posted:Cask 8 There's been some speculation that this was a kind of Indiana Jones style hunt.  The biggest problem is that the Atropos statue has been moved from its original location in a significant way. Not only is it not where it was, but it is now on a berm that didn't exist in 1982. 
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Jun 17, 2013 20:38
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Cask 2TotalHell posted:Completely agreed. Below the bar that binds seems super important to pinpointing the location, and we're all having real difficulty accounting for it. It's just so darn vague, and yet nothing quite matching it fits most of the spots we're looking at. My take is the line describes a water cistern, one of two rusty metal drum barrels next to the 1827 Cape Romain lighthouse. Below the bar that binds Where do you go to have a drink? A bar. Bind and hold have similar definitions. The cistern is designed as a hold for water. Sure it seems like crazy logic, but then I didn't personally know Preiss...how crazy was he? Definitely borderline.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:39
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BJG posted:The line that has always stumped me is "Below the bar that binds". Stumped is right. I looked all over White Point Gardens for anything that I'd call a "bar" that might be thought of as binding something, then had to eliminate each one. The central supporting bar on the gun carriages: nothing can be buried under the guns, each sits on a brick or cement platform. All of the monuments: none have anything that looks like a bar. The round shapes in the fairy wings also resemble the earthquake bolts on many downtown houses (Charleston was hit by a devastating earthquake in 1886, many of the buildings still standing from that period have rods, aka bars, running through the walls with bolts at each end that can be tightened, to hold the buildings together): there are no earthquake bolts that I could find on any of the houses surrounding the Battery. The only idea I have for "Below the bar that binds" is that the Battery, the Charleston harbor seawall itself, is the bar. Much of the site of WPG is filled marshland and the Battery literally holds that soil in place and keeps out the water, so it binds the tip of the peninsula in the sense of holding it together. One theory I used when I was probing the ground is that Preiss was indicating to stand at the triangulation marker for the USGS which is embedded in the Battery, then dig in the planting bed below that spot. A lot of space in those planting beds is just bare sand, with a few large oleander and other hardy bushes. When I probed the sand below the marker it was very hard-packed, but I poured water on it (brought a large bottle for the dog to drink) to loosen it, and then I was able to probe quite deeply along the wall at that spot. It's also outside of WPG itself, so digging for it there wouldn't destroy the Gardens themselves (it's a major tourist attraction, Parks and Recreation would be very unhappy at people digging up the landscaping) and there are no expensive plantings etc to be disrupted. I'm going to spend a few more hours on that area soon, because it seems promising to me. quote:Another thing is, the two solves were pinpointed by the verse, so people have said that all the casques must be pinpointed by the verse, but I think we should be open to possibility of something being pinpointed by a picture. (Just general rambling here.) Agreed, and one of the things that bothers me about my WPG gardens theory is that it relies so heavily on the verse. Although I can find things that I think support the idea in the picture, there is just nothing definite, nothing one can point to and say "See this? It looks just like that!" And the theory doesn't account for some things in the picture that seem to be important, like the shape of the branches and the pattern on the lion's forehead. The best I have been able to come up with for the fir\pine branches is that most of the trees in WPG are live oaks, which are called that because unlike other oaks they never drop their leaves. Wikipedia says that live oaks are also called "evergreen oaks", but I have never heard anyone call them that before, so I'm a little cautious about putting too much stock in that. I don't have any idea to account for the lion's forehead. quote:If "on the eighth a scene" relates to a hanging, I wonder exactly where the hanging took place. It would be a pretty morbid locale, but it's not a very happy picture. I don't think anyone knows the exact location, but the pirates all were hanged at WPG (or Oyster Point as it was called at the time.) Before the mid-eighteenth century the solid land of the point ended at about where King Street is now, and all of the land that is now WPG was tidal marsh (this was before the first seawall was built that would become the Battery, in 1755.) After being displayed on gibbets at Oyster Point for a while their corpses were buried just beyond it in the marshland. So, they are buried somewhere under WPG. 
bonestructure fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 20:40
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xie posted:How did he bury it on Roanoake if it's a crime to dig there? Or is this a more recent law. I think it's because those were different times. In 1982 people didnt ask that many questions. Heck, the author even said he traveled around the ccountry with a shovel. Something that we could neve do in these post 9/11 times. Preiss also said he had disguises and pretended to be a gardener or some kind of outdoor worker. IF someone wanted to dig there, I imagine all they would have to do is take a small army shovel and wait until that remote part of the island was empty. The casques that have been found were never deeper than 2 feet down. Most of us could dig that in 15 min.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:44
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Dr. Bit posted:Milwaukee Found this picture.  It's tough to tell near the top, but there's definitely close to 23 steps. There's a few more than 20, but I can't tell if it's 23 or maybe 24 or 25. I could make a case for any of those, but I think it's 23.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:46
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Dr. Bit posted:Milwaukee The mall opened in August of 1982. The book was published in 1982 which most likely means he buried everything prior to the release, possibly in 1981. It is doubtful he buried anything in Milwaukee during the winter so I would think it was most likely buried in the summer of 1981, at the latest, the fall. Most likely he had no knowledge of the Grand Avenue Mall, although the Plankinton Arcade portion was (I think) open. Skywalks didn't exist until later except for a very few.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:47
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rookhunter posted:I think it's because those were different times. In 1982 people didnt ask that many questions. Heck, the author even said he traveled around the ccountry with a shovel. Something that we could neve do in these post 9/11 times. Preiss also said he had disguises and pretended to be a gardener or some kind of outdoor worker. I'm not sure that absolves you for digging on illegal Federal land. While he has said it was clandestine, he also said he didn't break laws or put them on private property, and that no sites or remains etc were harmed.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:47
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einTier posted:Probably the Onion domed building that's evident in the image that's believed to belong to NYC. These aren't common in US architecture, so it should be easy to find. Still, I've been unable to find a building anywhere in the US that matches that outline. I speculated that, the film came out in June '81. Given the time it generally takes to put something through publication it's cutting it close given the book hit the shelves after November '82. I believe it's very possible Preiss put some sort of playful current events logic into some of his location designs. I understand the hill was modified on the theater side slope to increase steepness. I know the statue was taken down to be restored but whether the base was removed and reinstalled on an altered surface I don't know. If the soil has been reworked where the cask is proposed to sit, then it might have survived if buried deep enough. It could be deeper if more soil was added. At the very least it will still be along the same line, we would just be needing to make an adjustment for distance accounting for any changes in reference heights. I say, probe the heck out of the area with a pole/cable drill bit (cleverly hidden in a picnic basket). Then we'll have something to go on when we ask for permission.
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Jun 17, 2013 20:51
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xie posted:I'm not sure that absolves you for digging on illegal Federal land. While he has said it was clandestine, he also said he didn't break laws or put them on private property, and that no sites or remains etc were harmed. I dont remember him saying that. Is that from an interview? Remember the Fountain of Youth Park is private and although it has not been retrieved, the general consensus is that it's buried there. There is also an interview where Preiss said he had to jump a fence and throw his shovel over. If he wasn't doing anything "illegal" why did he need disguises and jump fences? EDIT: The book even says it could be buried in your backyard. This implies trespassing. lol rookhunter fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 20:55
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Neutrino posted:The mall opened in August of 1982. The book was published in 1982 which most likely means he buried everything prior to the release, possibly in 1981. It is doubtful he buried anything in Milwaukee during the winter so I would think it was most likely buried in the summer of 1981, at the latest, the fall. Most likely he had no knowledge of the Grand Avenue Mall, although the Plankinton Arcade portion was (I think) open. Skywalks didn't exist until later except for a very few. According to the Tribune article, he buried them in the Winter of '81-82 http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/sftrail.pdf
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Jun 17, 2013 21:01
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Neutrino posted:The mall opened in August of 1982. The book was published in 1982 which most likely means he buried everything prior to the release, possibly in 1981. It is doubtful he buried anything in Milwaukee during the winter so I would think it was most likely buried in the summer of 1981, at the latest, the fall. Most likely he had no knowledge of the Grand Avenue Mall, although the Plankinton Arcade portion was (I think) open. Skywalks didn't exist until later except for a very few. Those stairs existed long before the mall. I'm still trying to workout the bridge and SE paces by looking at the 1963 aerial map and the 1980 topo. Man, I wish there was a 1980 aerial view. edit: Here are a few paintings of the interior circa 1920 http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=1920s+Interior+Plankinton+Arcade+Milwaukee+Wisconsin+WI edit again: I'd like to reiterate to non-natives that even though it was the Plankinton Arcade pre-1982, the street of Wisconsin Avenue was informally the "Grand Avenue" for it's grand buildings/mansions. crashdome fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 21:01
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crashdome posted:It's worth an investigation. I wanted to head over there myself so if you can get there first, I say go for it! Workers monument was made 1995. But I learned a new word yay.
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Jun 17, 2013 21:20
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Fistgrrl posted:According to the Tribune article, he buried them in the Winter of '81-82 I'm still intrigued by Miro's "Personage With Birds" sculpture in Houston. It was installed in April of 1982 and probably was talked about before that. It could be the "three winged and slight" figure mentioned in the Houston verse. Those three things aren't really wings, they're supposed to represent birds, but given the name of the statue and the way it looks, it would be easy to misinterpret them as wings.  
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Jun 17, 2013 21:36
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Sham I Am posted:Which image/verse is this in relation too? justsomedude posted:The way the word "definitely" is being used in this thread is getting increasingly surreal, huh? GWBBQ fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 21:47
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MilwaukeeNeutrino posted:The mall opened in August of 1982. The book was published in 1982 which most likely means he buried everything prior to the release, possibly in 1981.... Yeah, Plankinton Arcade was built in 1916. But that portion may have been open while the addition was being built. And maybe the hype of it opening that year drew his attention to the building. Not sure how many skywalks were around at that time, but I think there were a couple. In any case, half of the city's skywalks are on that block. There aren't many places in the city where "below the bridge" matches up with places you can walk around. Pretty much Lake Park and downtown below a skywalk or footbridge. Grand Ave Mall is worth checking out, but I'm still leaning toward City Hall for the steps portion of the verse. Neutrino -- I think you or someone said there were 92 steps to one of the landings and 200 in all (yes?). The steps to the landing would give you a view of the "compass," and going back down ("after climbing the grand 200") and continuing south out of the building would take you out the "culvert," one of City Hall's distinctive features. Unfortunately, the "below the bridge" part after that becomes problematic. But I think we're narrowing down some of the places, and actually matching up some clues! And I don't think all of the clues were figured out in the casks that were discovered. If we can narrow it down to some specific starting places, that'll be something. Here's the "compass" in City Hall:
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Jun 17, 2013 21:47
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einTier posted:Found this picture. Yeah, it REALLY looks like it might be 23. It's at least close!
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Jun 17, 2013 21:54
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Dr. Bit posted:Yeah, it REALLY looks like it might be 23. It's at least close! I'm counting 24, but that includes the top "step". edit: actually, it does look like 23, nevermind.
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Jun 17, 2013 21:54
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crashdome posted:Those stairs existed long before the mall. I'm still trying to workout the bridge and SE paces by looking at the 1963 aerial map and the 1980 topo. Man, I wish there was a 1980 aerial view. What are you trying to find a 1980 aerial view of? West Wisconsin Avenue was know as Grand Avenue from the 1880s until the early 1930s. It still has kept the identity through time and it was revived with the construction of the mall. The Plankinton Mall portion was kept open during the construction of the Grand Avenue Mall but prior to the opening of the Mall it was kind of decrepit and vacant, almost like it is now again.
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Jun 17, 2013 21:59
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I have a visual image match to the painting in Boston. Uploading now. It's small, but is an almost perfect recreation. The building also has checkered tiles on it (like the Trinity Church) and triangular wall tiles on it as well. It is next to a Church topped with 4 small turrets. Very, very tenuous, but this is the best single lead I've seen. This is 100% unshakably the #4 on her sleeve, which is completely out of place with the rest of the picture. It is photo-realistic, in that the dimensions, slight curvature of the / line on the 4, and the tail all match. Click for HUGE: http://i.imgur.com/bUGcnYa.jpg?1 xie fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 22:13
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xie posted:I have a visual image match to the painting in Boston. Uploading now. It's small, but is an almost perfect recreation. The building also has checkered tiles on it (like the Trinity Church) and triangular wall tiles on it as well. It is next to a Church topped with 4 small turrets. Very, very tenuous, but this is the best single lead I've seen. That's a very good find. Where is this?
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Jun 17, 2013 22:18
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rookhunter posted:That's a very good find. Where is this? An unnamed building in Harvard Square. Not unnamed out of secrecy, but unnamed because it started raining and I was on my lunch break.  I started wandering from Harvard looking at Dawes (hell no, nothing there), Cambridge Common, etc. and in the distance I spotted two turrets and kept plodding down Mass Ave.
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Jun 17, 2013 22:19
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xie posted:This is 100% unshakably the #4 on her sleeve, which is completely out of place with the rest of the picture. It is photo-realistic, in that the dimensions, slight curvature of the / line on the 4, and the tail all match. I dunno man. I hate to be the rear end in a top hat, but that's not nearly as similar as you think it is. Bottom "leg" is shorter than the right "arm" on the sleeve, whereas it is the opposite in the photo. Also, the sleeve 4 doesn't have the same concavity to it. And it's a pretty standard-looking 4 anyways...
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Jun 17, 2013 22:21
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Neutrino posted:What are you trying to find a 1980 aerial view of? Parks, trees, bridges, etc. Things that may be SE of things. I realize being on the ground is better but, I want to see how much has changed in a given area before I show up. I just also noticed that compass was placed in 1995. Crap.
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Jun 17, 2013 22:24
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LargeHadron posted:I dunno man. I hate to be the rear end in a top hat, but that's not nearly as similar as you think it is. Bottom "leg" is shorter than the right "arm" on the sleeve, whereas it is the opposite in the photo. Also, the sleeve 4 doesn't have the same concavity to it. And it's a pretty standard-looking 4 anyways... The bottom leg runs off the image on her sleeve, it's not closed off. I don't consider that important. I agree the concavity is a bit off, and I consider that far more important.
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Jun 17, 2013 22:25
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xie posted:This is 100% unshakably the #4 on her sleeve xie posted:The bottom leg runs off the image on her sleeve, it's not closed off. I don't consider that important. So maybe 90% in terms of unshakability then?
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Jun 17, 2013 22:29
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Milwaukee Food for thought. The symbol of the Epicopalian church is called a compass. I know there are several old Episcopalian churches downtown, and I'm sure this symbol is on them. 
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Jun 17, 2013 22:30
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LargeHadron posted:So maybe 90% in terms of unshakability then? After looking at it more, possibly. I still think it's the 4. I've been one of the biggest beaters of "its going to be photorealistic" and this comes pretty darn close. It's on par with other imagery we've seen. It matching the 4 on her sleeve also doesn't mean it was the one the author took a polaroid of - there could easily be more than one of these. Skepticism first is the name of the game with this, but I also saw some other stuff worth looking at there.
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Jun 17, 2013 22:33
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xie posted:After looking at it more, possibly. I still think it's the 4. I've been one of the biggest beaters of "its going to be photorealistic" and this comes pretty darn close. It's on par with other imagery we've seen. Are you in Boston Xie? I was under the impression that 4 was near the proposed Boston site.
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Jun 17, 2013 22:44
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rookhunter posted:Are you in Boston Xie? That 4 is in harvard square near the HLS campus. It's on Hastings Hall. edit: It's next to the church and this building: Austin Hall (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Austin_Hall%2C_Harvard_University.JPG) which is a venerable "what's what" of various possible matches. It was designed by the same man who did Trinity Church. xie fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 22:47
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xie posted:The bottom leg runs off the image on her sleeve, it's not closed off. I don't consider that important. Please bear in mind that the columns in one of the solved pictures look nothing like the real ones!  Maybe some parts are being over thought? That said, I'm loving this thread, and can't wait to see more from you all, I just wanted to throw my two pennorth in.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:05
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