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ThePutty posted:A melting pot event for Norse and various cultures would be a cool fix. I personally think the viking kingdom of Azerbaijan is insanely badass, but I don't want to see Norsemen dominating the entire culture and never converting to another religion. Viking Azerbaijan happened in my game (Swedish prepared invasion) and they seem really precarious so I don't think a fix is really needed. Playing as Norse Novgorod I've had to save them from invasion/rebellion twice in ten years.
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Jun 17, 2013 22:04
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I think the King of Azerbaijan and the Jarl of Jylland decided to trade places and see if anyone would notice:
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Jun 17, 2013 22:08
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Trujillo posted:I think the King of Azerbaijan and the Jarl of Jylland decided to trade places and see if anyone would notice: This is hilarious. CK2 genetics! And what is up with Ostlandet? They have not yet formed Norway AND they hold this big part of Germany? Are the Karlings that incompetent in your game?
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Jun 17, 2013 22:43
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Vikings are raiding Treviso in 1292 in this Byzantine game. 
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Jun 17, 2013 22:46
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Ofaloaf posted:Vikings are raiding Treviso in 1292 in this Byzantine game. Did Christianity spread to Scandinavia?
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Jun 17, 2013 22:55
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Lawman 0 posted:Did Christianity spread to Scandinavia? Yeah, this is from a 1081 start. There's still four independent Norse counties in Scandinavia, somehow. Aland was the Norse county raiding Treviso, what the christ.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:15
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From a narrative point of view, I actually really like the fact that reformed pagans can't raid in CK2+ - Since some independent rulers don't convert (or subsequently fall to the Old [Norse/Slavic/Romuva] heresy), it gives a real feel of the "followers of the old ways" hanging on stubbornly to semi-anarchy, while those that have reformed are acting more like the southern foes.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:30
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Noreaus posted:From a narrative point of view, I actually really like the fact that reformed pagans can't raid in CK2+ - Since some independent rulers don't convert (or subsequently fall to the Old [Norse/Slavic/Romuva] heresy), it gives a real feel of the "followers of the old ways" hanging on stubbornly to semi-anarchy, while those that have reformed are acting more like the southern foes. That makes me wonder. If you reform, implement Primogeniture/Elective/whatever, and then surrender to Old X heretics, what happens to your crown laws? Does it dump you back into Gavelkind, or can you keep cruising with the better succession laws yet still get raiding/infinite levies?
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Jun 17, 2013 23:35
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SeaTard posted:That makes me wonder. If you reform, implement Primogeniture/Elective/whatever, and then surrender to Old X heretics, what happens to your crown laws? Does it dump you back into Gavelkind, or can you keep cruising with the better succession laws yet still get raiding/infinite levies?
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Jun 17, 2013 23:39
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SeaTard posted:That makes me wonder. If you reform, implement Primogeniture/Elective/whatever, and then surrender to Old X heretics, what happens to your crown laws? Does it dump you back into Gavelkind, or can you keep cruising with the better succession laws yet still get raiding/infinite levies? Haven't done with unreformed pagans but have experienced with Islam - religion change causes a change in succession laws.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:41
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Anyone know if you get tech points as a non-Doge patrician?
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Jun 17, 2013 23:44
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SeaTard posted:That makes me wonder. If you reform, implement Primogeniture/Elective/whatever, and then surrender to Old X heretics, what happens to your crown laws? Does it dump you back into Gavelkind, or can you keep cruising with the better succession laws yet still get raiding/infinite levies? Well, in CK2+ (though I'm not sure it is intended behaviour) - the Kingdom of Norway, even when unreformed, had primogeniture. Creating the crown title forced my crown laws to become primogeniture. I'm not sure this is intended behaviour, though.
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Jun 17, 2013 23:45
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 Tell me my borders look pretty. TELL ME THEY'RE STILL PRETTY! This is the result of me aggressively downsizing Scandinavia. I'm trying to keep hold of the Russian Empire area, Britannia and, of course, Scandinavia itself. Everything else must go, save for a few counties to keep the river routes into the inland seas clear and Venice for that sweet, sweet trade money. It'll be interesting to see how it looks in a hundred years or so. Practically everyone is part of the sprawling Dakthorr dynasty too, so there's claims and counterclaims and alliances all over the shop. I get called to war almost every minute.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:09
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Good God, are they all Norse? 
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Jun 18, 2013 00:17
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Yes they are. Just about the only place in the western world that isn't is Mali, because gently caress threading your troops through Timbuktu and Audaghost to get that place. They can chill out and do their own thing as far as I'm concerned. They managed to get conquered by the Moors, remain West African and get free again, so I figure they've earned it.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:21
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So how do Jihads work? Are they only activated by a certain time? Because I'm a Caliph with 4 personally owned holy sites, 100 religious authority, 1000 piety and 2000 prestige in 953.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:35
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I think you have to wait until 1100 or so for any kind of large scale holy war.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:37
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Daktar posted:
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Jun 18, 2013 00:38
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Daktar posted:Yes they are. Just about the only place in the western world that isn't is Mali, because gently caress threading your troops through Timbuktu and Audaghost to get that place. They can chill out and do their own thing as far as I'm concerned. They managed to get conquered by the Moors, remain West African and get free again, so I figure they've earned it. Mod your game files to let reformed Pagans preach to infidel lords, and then start throwing court priests into some Malian jails.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:38
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Sankis posted:I think you have to wait until 1100 or so for any kind of large scale holy war. Ah well. Guess I'll start unifying the Arabs before I start expanding Dar Al-Islam 
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Jun 18, 2013 00:48
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Odd little bug, my city vassal income skyrocketed suddenly. After about 3 months it went back to normal, but something clearly went wrong. Sadly no save because I didn't think about it when I was taking the screenshots, but my retinue upkeep also went through the roof at the same time.  I had this happen once before about 6 or 8 weeks ago, and it was pretty much the same type of thing (Merchant Republic, City Vassal income got huge). Maybe next time I'll remember to get a save game.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:07
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Okay, that is loving it. The Aztecs cheat and it's not amusing and it's not fun. They have 200,000 attrition-proof soldiers. The Pope declares a Crusade on them. I went at them 80k to 100k and lost 50k of my men. They lost 5,000. They won without even having their numbers reduced. They declare invasion on England and bam, there's two doomstacks in England and I'm somehow losing 6 sieges per week. And my Siege Technology level is loving 5, but it doesn't matter for the magic Aztecs, castles crumble as soon as they look at them. I haven't even had time to form up my troops, not that it's gonna loving matter because they don't take losses in battle. It's cheating. It's blatant cheating and I'm not going to play if the computer's going to break its own rules. They have more men than I could muster if I controlled all of Europe, they don't need to split them up so I don't even have the opportunity to pick a fight, even if I did they'd brush me aside because they can't lose, they can't be subverted by any underhanded means, there's no game anymore. I just lose what it took me centuries to gain because haha, gently caress you. I'm turning off Sunset Invasion from now on, I'm not in this for the computer to masturbate and make me watch.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:46
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Daktar posted:
Welp, no sleep for me tonight, or I'll have nightmares about this.
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Jun 18, 2013 03:56
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CapnAndy posted:Okay, that is loving it. The Aztecs cheat and it's not amusing and it's not fun. They have 200,000 attrition-proof soldiers. The Pope declares a Crusade on them. I went at them 80k to 100k and lost 50k of my men. They lost 5,000. They won without even having their numbers reduced. They declare invasion on England and bam, there's two doomstacks in England and I'm somehow losing 6 sieges per week. And my Siege Technology level is loving 5, but it doesn't matter for the magic Aztecs, castles crumble as soon as they look at them. I haven't even had time to form up my troops, not that it's gonna loving matter because they don't take losses in battle. I don't play with Sunset Invasion but this sounds like what starting next to the Mongols is like. The only defense against them is to blob like all hell before they arrive, cheese the game by saving up money for them and then win by amassing hellishly large armies to fight them with and conquering through outnumbering the bajeezus out of them. And stabbing their leaders. Never stop stabbing their leaders. An imbecile child will inherit eventually.
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Jun 18, 2013 04:01
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CapnAndy posted:They have more men than I could muster if I controlled all of Europe Not to rain on your rant, but my Roman Empire game which has far less than all of Europe (mainly just all of southern Europe and all but 4 provinces bordering the Mediterranean and Black Seas) can muster 325k troops. That's not counting my 9k personal troops, 37k retinue, 3k Varangian Guard, or any mercenaries that are available. They'd all need to be combined together, of course, and they aren't immune to attrition (unless on boats, which I can muster nearly 6000 of), but it is entirely possible to build a bigger doomstack than the hordes get if your empire is big enough.
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Jun 18, 2013 04:06
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 Rashka, why must you hurt me so? 
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Jun 18, 2013 04:11
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Rejected Fate posted:I don't play with Sunset Invasion but this sounds like what starting next to the Mongols is like. The get more free spawned troops with each leader so chain stabbing can be counterproductive. I just throw piles of soldiers at them every chance I get (offer to join wars to sacrifice your levies every time). They will gently caress you up time after time, but eventually their doomstacks will become small enough to beat. Or just blob and kill them the second they appear.
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Jun 18, 2013 04:39
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The Byzantine emperor became a Karling at some point in my current game, leading Europe to become half purple (and constant rebellions but not the point). However I thought that the empire stopped existing if the emperor became Catholic and that it would switch to the Latin Empire. Is that that a thing that happens or am I just not remembering it correctly?
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Jun 18, 2013 05:12
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I know the Byzantine Empire auto-dissolves if you cease to be a Christian, but I think Catholics can hold the title. I've never tested it with them, though.
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Jun 18, 2013 05:22
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Lesson learned, never arrange a marriage for your son and give him land before the marriage is accepted. Apparently the unmarried heir of Scotland is cool, but god help you if he has a duchy.
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Jun 18, 2013 05:29
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Is anyone using CK2+ and Better Armies running into some weirdness with the Seljuk invasion around 1000? The event fires, but the Seljuks don't declare war for some reason and the doomstacks just sit there. I'm playing Zoroastrian Persia so I'm semi-thankful for the reprieve but I don't think this is supposed to happen. (also the event spawns two more of the Seljuk stacks and gives them to Cumania, which makes a certain bizarre sense but which I also don't believe is intended.)
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Jun 18, 2013 06:04
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The Arabian Empire's colour in CK2+ is kinda... ugly. I don't know, I think some type of dark green would be more appropriate. How do I change the colour and what is a good colour to change it to?
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Jun 18, 2013 06:17
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Dallan Invictus posted:Is anyone using CK2+ and Better Armies running into some weirdness with the Seljuk invasion around 1000? The event fires, but the Seljuks don't declare war for some reason and the doomstacks just sit there. I know there was a vanilla bug that made this happen in the 1.10 patch with certain hordes (happened to me with the Aztecs). I couldn't figure out how to fix it, and I assumed Paradox took care of it. I dunno man.
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Jun 18, 2013 06:19
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Flippycunt posted:I know there was a vanilla bug that made this happen in the 1.10 patch with certain hordes (happened to me with the Aztecs). I couldn't figure out how to fix it, and I assumed Paradox took care of it. I dunno man. Yeah, I looked at the event code for all three versions of mongol_events (vanilla/CK2+/BA), and they're all effectively the same barring the tweaks to their numbers, so I dunno either. Ah, well, maybe I'll fiddle with it tomorrow and see what I can try.
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Jun 18, 2013 06:26
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Well. I let my abandoned due to constant revolt save on observe for a few hours. The end world is not at all pretty. Man, the Golden Horde really rips through when there are no major blobs to stop it due to the 867 start. Edit:  Here is where I started the observation from and is the best picture I have of the extent of my Empire. Denmark, Bulgaria, Poland were all mine but I let them revolt because gently caress them. I know it's no big deal and I actually didn't set out to make a big blob. My vassals just kinda made it happen. The biggest thing I did, aside from unifying Scandanavia, was Great Holy War on Anatolia after the AI already took a big chunk out of it. I'd wanted to usurp the Byzantine empire and grant it independence as a Norse state. Then things started getting crazy revolt-wise so here we are.  Religion map from the same period.  The Ilkhanate and Golden Horde appear shortly after beginning my observation. With no large buffer states to hold them, the Golden horde quickly tears through Russia and into Eastern Europe.  After a century and a half of dominance, they finally begin to feel revolts. This isn't permanent but significant chunks do break off from time to time. Note how my glorious Yngling Empire has been nibbled at for the past century. Not pictured are the Yngling African holdings that soon become independent under Finland. At this point, Norway and Scandanavia are both Yngling. There's also a Yngling Monarchy in France for 3 generations somehow.  The world as of 1453. Amazingly the Byzantine Empire still exists and is probably at their most powerful. Scotland looks to be in the middle of a rebellion but has otherwise remained fairly stable throughout these 700 years.  Norway, Pomerania, and Finland are the three remaining Yngling states barely clinging on. Somehow the Finnish guy is Bedouin and also a Sultan. Scandanavia and the Fylkirate passed onto a new dynasty after being held by the my dynasty since 1000.  The religious map of 1453. Catholicism and Orthodoxy are dead. Long live the Lollards. Norse still exists among the former Yngling states and in the former Raider Kingdoms of the Mediterranean. Weirdly enough my family still had a lot of their legacy titles, though. Do Muslims just not usurp? I had a King of Anatolia running around for some time after it was completely taken. Sankis fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 07:00
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Dallan Invictus posted:Yeah, I looked at the event code for all three versions of mongol_events (vanilla/CK2+/BA), and they're all effectively the same barring the tweaks to their numbers, so I dunno either. Ah, well, maybe I'll fiddle with it tomorrow and see what I can try. IIRC, it's cb_types that needs to be changed, for the special Horde invasion.
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Jun 18, 2013 07:18
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CapnAndy posted:Okay, that is loving it. The Aztecs cheat and it's not amusing and it's not fun. They have 200,000 attrition-proof soldiers. The Pope declares a Crusade on them. I went at them 80k to 100k and lost 50k of my men. They lost 5,000. They won without even having their numbers reduced. They declare invasion on England and bam, there's two doomstacks in England and I'm somehow losing 6 sieges per week. And my Siege Technology level is loving 5, but it doesn't matter for the magic Aztecs, castles crumble as soon as they look at them. I haven't even had time to form up my troops, not that it's gonna loving matter because they don't take losses in battle. I know mongols used to do this thing where they stacked all their forces dead centre (or flanks?) and that little quirk made them incredibly hard to beat/put casualties on even in a 1 on 1 fight; going top heavy like that trivialize some the early rounds of combat leading to a quick and easy win even if you account for their horse archers. Perhaps the Aztecs do something similar.
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Jun 18, 2013 08:26
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Pagans in CK2+ seem really bad at making kingdoms. There's been Norse duchies sitting on kingdoms for ages and they won't do it, and I'm sure Greater Poland can just be regular Poland by now. I don't know, perhaps I'm unlucky.
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Jun 18, 2013 08:28
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My northern Neighbor formed Scotland shortly before I formed England, and can somehow field twice as many troops as I can. He's also my Brother-in-law and keeps calling me into Wars to conquer Ireland and just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I'm really waiting for this to backfire, but I'm not looking forward to it.
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Jun 18, 2013 08:38
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Rejected Fate posted:Pagans in CK2+ seem really bad at making kingdoms. There's been Norse duchies sitting on kingdoms for ages and they won't do it, and I'm sure Greater Poland can just be regular Poland by now. Did an experiment with a Ostland-something that had enough provinces to make Norway by gifting them around 800 gold for titles. They spent it on a new castle holding instead so now I'm guessing it's not the reduced loot but Gavelkind messing with their AI. Also, for some reason the first kingdom you form as a Pagan defaults to primogeniture despite the patch notes claiming otherwise.
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Jun 18, 2013 10:55
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