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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:If we need to dig in Harvard I'll see what I can do. I'll actually be in Boston proper on Friday for a week with a fair amount of free time, this is fairly tempting.
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Jun 18, 2013 04:10
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Invicta, do you know someone at the University?
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Jun 18, 2013 04:25
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xie posted:Invicta, do you know someone at the University? Me?
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Jun 18, 2013 04:54
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Oh handy, I don't know anyone at FAS personally and was just going to rely on the old community spiel.
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Jun 18, 2013 05:00
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pretz posted:New York City I looked through the thread and haven't seen mention of it, but I keep wondering if the NYC one is somewhere on Randall's Island. "Or gaze north/Toward the isle of B." makes sense with Lemontiger's explanation of a site near the Verrazano with a view of Bledloe's Island (former name for Liberty Island), but it could also be the much-less-well-known North Brother Island, which is north of Randall's Island. The "whirring sound" line would then refer to LGA, which is right nearby and would probably have had a ton of propeller planes back in 1980.
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Jun 18, 2013 05:20
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Randall's Island has been completely reconstructed since 1992, like major major work. There's still some open greenspace but drat i can't think of a place that's more torn up in NYC than that.
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Jun 18, 2013 05:27
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MontrealMerlot Brougham posted:Cask 9 / MONTREAL Yeah, I did something with that a few pages back. I'm glad someone else sees it!   Aside from that, there's these, but they really aren't perfect. Super imposing the hands on Metcalfe/Cathedral streets intersecting with Rene-Levesque at the point that it takes that little jog. The upper finger also seems to match part of the paths in Dorchester Park:    Overlaying the golden square in the picture with the southern corners of the Golden Square Mile. The leg goes through Dorchester Square/Place du Canada when it breaks out of the square. The toe points at the Hilton. Perhaps an endorsement!  The weird thing on the square that is a little reminiscent of Habitat 67. Also a little reminiscent of the stairway in front of the Archdioses office on Cathedral right next to Marie Rienne du Monde. Drawn as generously to myself as I could after getting views from up and down the street in Google Earth, but still really rough:    Checkers look a lot like the ones in the Dominion Square Tavern by Metcalfe and Dominion. Big windows in the front so maybe they're viewable from the street? I don't have a pic, but there's a building at around Peel and Dominion that had checkers in 1962. It's just white squares now. The second picture actually seems to give us five columns of checkers, which is the number on the sleeves (edit: no it doesn't... I don't know why I thought that):   The collar? I thought maybe the coat on the Burns statue, but maybe the rightmost shield of the war memorial window at St. Georges would work. The only picture I can find is a tiny one on the Saint George's website, but this is it blown up. I'd love to see how the leading is actually lined out:  No pic, but for the lower collar with the "steps," I'm actually a little reminded of the steps on either side of Peel that you would seems to take leading from Place du Canada to Saint George's. Looking down the street, the Place du Canada ones look deeper and more rectangular than the ones on the St. George side, which kind of matches the picture. Not the right number of stairs, though. The center of the flower kind of looks like the barrels of the Mitrailleus that Wikipedia tells me is in Place du Canada. Xs run the length of the roof at St. Georges. This part itself actually looks like a map when you apply Verse 7: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet The lone door on the side of Marie Reinne du Monde facing Place du Canada. Sweet smell is incense. Not far away High posts are three MacDonald statue. He was Prime Minister, Premier and Attorney General. Additionally, MacDonald, Laurier and Peel were all Prime Ministers, right? So two statues and a street name right there. Education and Justice For all to see Originally I thought the MacDonald and Laurier statues, but now I like the cannons by the MacDonald statue. Maybe you can get there from "canon law" and "canonical education." Or since cannon were often named by their gun crews in the British navy maybe there's a plaque saying that their names were literally Education and Justice. But I guess I'd be a little surprised if he used a line that literally. Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Bell tower at Saint George's and memorial window including the air force there as well. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention This is tough because North in Montreal seems to be a little ambiguous. If you take Twain's attention as the river, then it runs true north through town. St Lawrence Blvd is the is main divider between east and west, though right? And because of this north and south in street terms end up being around 10:00 to true north. Twain wrote of the Boer War and Burns, to which are are statues dedicated at the park. Also, he gave his speech in Montreal at the Windsor Hotel, which is just a block Montreal-north of here up Peel. It seems that his "can't throw a rock in Montreal without hitting a church window" is the thing most closely associated with him and Montreal, though, so I'm thinking that the line is referring to the windows running across the side of the church, Montreal-northward. Giant pole Giant step Before you reach the end of the church, you have the flagpole in Place du Canada on your right and this weird ledge sticking out of the back of the church. Or maybe giant step is just saying to hop the fence   To the place The casque is kept. With lines drawn between them, you can generate this (flag pole and ledge circled):  Which looks a lot like this on the flower:  Finally I guess, the first letters of bordering streets are all obtainable from the picture except Rue de la Gauchetiere -- I think Rene-Levesque was Dorchester before 1987 (D, P, M, W, C). Guuse fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 05:55
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xie posted:Randall's Island has been completely reconstructed since 1992, like major major work. There's still some open greenspace but drat i can't think of a place that's more torn up in NYC than that. 1 and 2 World Trade Center might give it a run for its money
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Jun 18, 2013 05:58
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xie posted:Randall's Island has been completely reconstructed since 1992, like major major work. There's still some open greenspace but drat i can't think of a place that's more torn up in NYC than that. I checked at governor's ball; it's not there. And if anyone doubts that we tore up the entire layer of topsoil after the nice tropical storm turned it into disgusting mud, just check the photos.
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Jun 18, 2013 06:21
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Emacs Headroom posted:I checked at governor's ball; it's not there. And if anyone doubts that we tore up the entire layer of topsoil after the nice tropical storm turned it into disgusting mud, just check the photos. This was something I thought of in regards to the Lemontiger idea, that it's across the street from that Fort Hamilton High School or whatever. That area almost certainly got rocked by Sandy last year, and when i looked on Street View to check the area out for myself the area suspected as the cask's resting ground was behind barricades along with a whole stretch of land that looked like it was being either torn up or re-landscaped.
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Jun 18, 2013 06:31
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rookhunter posted:I understand. I should've mentioned urban smurf is from q4t and his theories are um well known there. But you're right its still not productive. I have a good feeling about this site, I honestly think someone will find one . It wouldn't surprise me. I know you guys are new here, but this is one of the more intelligent and prolific boards on the internet -- not that you'd know from the title. And the people here can be tenacious bastards about an idea once it gets started. We have many multi-year threads, and when the hive-mind latches onto something, crazy things start to happen. We've completely overrun more than a few online games, and our conquest of Eve Online is absolutely the stuff of legend. That got started the same way as this thread -- just a simple recruitment thread in the general forum. Today it's the longest-lasting and most successful alliance Eve has ever had. People here are known for doing the impossible. If this forum can't find it, I don't hold much hope for anyone else.
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Jun 18, 2013 06:57
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I live in Wisconsin, and lived/worked in Milwaukee for most of it. I first tried several solutions, and tomorrow I can go in length (it's late and I need to sleep) about each of the steps including photos for each step. For example, I too tried to figure it out based on various Mitchell starts--the 3 Mitchell Domes, the 3-story Alexander Mitchell mansion (now called the Wisconsin Club) on Wisconsin Ave. (once called Grand Ave., and he had a famous son and grandson (three who lived there), the 5-story Mitchell Building on Michigan and Wells and in the end it was exhausting and reaching too far with each step (and often historically not feasible for the time period Preiss buried the casque). However, I traced the steps using the lemontiger map and it all works--except for the birch trees which have changed greatly in 40 years. Starting from Mitchell Hall near UWM (three stories tall), remember that Byron Preiss was a devout Jew and across the street is the Helene Zelazo Center...once the Jewish temple and many Jewish venues nearby in the area including... The intersection of Kenwood and Lake Drive (where two Jewish study schools stand). At this point, the Oak Leaf Trail (step on nature) and Lincoln Memorial Drive (cast in copper) overlap as they begin. At the Grand Staircase, at the base of Lake Park Bistro, there have been recent improvements to the bottom and perhaps changed the inital number of steps. At current, starting from the new bottom, there are 95 steps--pretty drat close. Read that passage with a period: Ascend the 92 steps. After climbing the grand 200... These curved steps in Roman numerals--CC--would equal 200. The entire puzzle is very, very heavy into numbers. Even the early passage "At a distance in time" could refer to a distance from City Hall clock or 60 minutes. In any case, continuing to follow the lemontiger theory and painting (the juggler's robe very closely match the Milwaukee River and Lake Michigan shoreline), past the North Point Lighthouse (compass) and Lion Bridge (a ravine leads to the lakefront again, then go southeast and west past imaginary tree markers) and you end up at Juneau Park. Looking at the statue side...  Juneau-closeup by Blur Radial, on Flickr It looks remarkably like our figure in the painting. In that park, looking west on Wells Street, you can see City Hall and the Pabst Theatre. In the park, nobody has yet addressed the rhyolite rock...I mean "wonderstone" near the southern end. It has been there forever, once a focal point but now lost in a natural garden on the slope. There use to be a tree there:  wonder-tree by Blur Radial, on Flickr ...or alternately, there is a WWI flagpole with an inscription (a letter from the country?), transplanted from near Juneau's statue to the southern tip in 1979. By the way, in 1981, the Lincoln Memorial Bridge at the south point was being re-constructed. Preiss could easily have looked like another worker and a fresh mound wouldn't have looked out of place. Anyone got a ground-penetrating sonar, or connections to Discovery World nearby who have access to one??? Just a few thoughts, I have more (and some detailed photos) including some misnomers (example: that gem is a sapphire, not February's birthstone of amethyst). Some of the other theories are great--but if it was in Red Arrow Park then it is lost. That place went through many re-sculptings in the past decades, and is now mostly concrete for the winter skating rink.
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Jun 18, 2013 07:16
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Jesus, xie, I leave for a day and Boston blows up. Nice work, that could be really strong stuff! I'm on an iPad so quoting/looking back is a pain, but there was that PDF that was posted a page or three back which described step-by-step connections for both SF and one of the found casks. It seemed like the visual elements were roughly staggered with the words to 'frame' the site geographically. If the central(ish) point is the Epworth church there are a couple of things that could referentially match up in a relatively small area. In no particular order: -The flower could reference the Harvard housing area called 'Botanic Gardens' on Garden st., NE from the castle-lookin' church a few blocks. -The 'all the letters' line could refer to the Agassiz area in which the church/adjacent park are located. (This is the exact thing that was making me consider the Fens a ways back (Agassiz Road), and I had no idea that name was anywhere else. Cool.) -The bird could just be a bird because some dudes love to paint birds. Just throwing that out there. If you ever need another pair of eyes when digging becomes more feasible, just let me know and we can link up in the city somehow. No big deal.
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Jun 18, 2013 07:48
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blurradial posted:Great Milwaukee stuff That's actually the route I took almost exactly on my first day out. I had no idea that stone existed and may have even have taken a photo of it. I was literally looking for a letter/writing. I knew about the flagpole and I'll post my trip and pics to Flickr once I make an account. I'd like to compare some things and maybe head out there again this Friday. That rock, grand 200, and the steps are about all I couldn't place. I counted over 100 on my way up and I did it twice to be sure. Now it may be a CC in Preiss' mind also but if that's true it's a long long stretch and the shittiest clue ever. The steps are actually a full oval. All that is irelevant if that rock is an actual clue though. And seriously neutrino? your going to hold out on the one clue I spent days trying to work out? You sick sick bastard.
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Jun 18, 2013 09:02
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blurradial posted:
I agree that the stone isn't right for the color, but if you wiki it, you see that the sapphire that was used in the St. Augustine picture is one with the star on it. A faceted amethyst shows like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amethyst.JPG Could it just be that the artist messed up and colored it blue on accident. OR that it was painted blue as a clue, maybe. It's a stretch but looking at all the avenues here. I can't wait to see what else you got from your trip out.
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Jun 18, 2013 09:06
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were the cannons used to take down airplanes in a war? sounds from th le sky, ace is high makes me keep thinking of planes....curse you Iron Maiden (the song "aces high") deals with planes during war..... I got nothin'
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Jun 18, 2013 12:13
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Nnep posted:Relooking through the hi-res scans, theres so much i missed at first glance. That actually had been discussed, and was one of the original reasons for thinking White Point Gardens was a possibility, as the end of that line passes right through the tip of the Gardens if you overlay that on Charleston map.
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Jun 18, 2013 13:43
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Cask 10 The latest discovery that intrigues me for Milwaukee reported by Deuce at Q4T involves taking a mason's compass and literally placing it on a city map with the center fixed at City Hall (indicated by match in illustration) then set the pencil to Mitchell Hall and pass the arc to see it follow through several points of interest. I see it passes through St. Josaphat and Kosciuszko. St. Josaphats uses a significant amount of copper. Kosciuszko is a 1-star general. Given there are a max possible 5-stars in that rank, would that make him a proud tall fifth sitting on his horse? Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 14:03
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pretz posted:I've been reading this thread since the start and it's really exciting (and also driving me a little crazy!) einTier posted:It wouldn't surprise me. I know you guys are new here, but this is one of the more intelligent and prolific boards on the internet -- not that you'd know from the title.
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Jun 18, 2013 14:11
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Just a few blocks west of City Hall is a statue of a five-star general. Kinda feel like we're going in circles on the Milwaukee clue.
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Jun 18, 2013 14:15
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Just spent a morning in Cambrige. Quote on the gate is plain as day - overlooks Dawes Island Park. The turrets don't line up from all of the Common, though due to tree coverage I can't see it from the Italian American Historical Society marker. There is nothing currently in the park that could be a green tower of light, but the park has undergone substantial changes over the years. The playground on the North side is dedicated 1997. The island next to the Harvard Bus Tunnel may still be in play, but was only named after a local cop in 2011ish. The 4 is the 4. The turrets are the turrets. The specific shape of the turrets on Harvard Epsworth is the only way to get that perspective geometrically. All equal turrets will not look like that, i walked around all angles. Nothing really on Austin House that I saw, or anything else on Hastings. If anyone's in the area this week give the thread a heads up, I can show you around. I'm not calling this solved, but by golly I think this is the most progress in a lobg while on this image.
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Jun 18, 2013 14:35
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Cask 11 Nesetril posted:That could be valuable in so far as thinking about the problem creatively, or out of the (Pandora's? The verse is what invoked baseball for me. The line "feel at home" landed in my mind the image of standing at bat at home plate. The shapes on her sleeve cuff looked like a lower leg running past a plate. I eventually thought of a Greek-baseball relation in answer to why start the verse with Greek writers names Thucydides and Xenophon: Homer = home run. The locals at Fenway have an iconic phrase "see it go!" when a homer is hit. The phrase comes from the play on the letters of CITGO. I'm not ready to dismiss the baseball idea yet. It seems good to avoid plain baseball visual references, this is a challenging puzzle. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 15:21
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) box, but it introduces unnecessary complications. The image doesn't really invoke baseball, or any kind of sport. Why require warping the patterns in the image, when the patterns could just match directly to the cracks in the pavement, or whatever? It's not like that kind of clue gives away the answer. You still have to be right there to see it.
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blurradial posted:In the park, nobody has yet addressed the rhyolite rock...I mean "wonderstone" near the southern end. That's a good find. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits If you take a slightly twisted view of these lines, maybe "it" refers to the wonderstone. Would it be feasible to bury something south of it? Can we get some more photos?  Eg the key is interesting since that's what was buried. Is there an angle on the wonderstone that looks like the blob? BJG fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 15:55
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For those of you not yet in Q4T, let me know if you need any info inside. (like articles, images or theory comparisons) I know how frustrating it is not to see the work done over the last few years and compare notes. Once inside you will have quite a bit of reading. There are threads for each verse and image. Each of them about 40-80 pages long. At the least it is a good read. I really enjoyed reading the threads after the Cleveland casque was found and Egberts encounter with Preiss.
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Jun 18, 2013 15:55
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stab posted:were the cannons used to take down airplanes in a war? Heh, I had the same song in my head. The Trooper, too.  But no, they're 19th century naval cannons. I'm pretty sure that the "near ace is high" refers to the air force memorial window in the church. St. Patrick's would still fit the bill, too, with it's St. Patrick clover things resembling the Ace of Clubs. Do you want to take a look over the fence there and see if it's even diggable in the church yard? Maybe it's pavement or brick or something. Wouldn't be a good idea to actually hop the fence without asking permission... Where did the author say that none of the casks were on private property? In the book he seemed to indicate that they could be pretty much anywhere.
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Jun 18, 2013 16:08
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That may have been an assumption, though I'm almost positive he confirmed nothing was like, in graveyards or national monuments.
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Jun 18, 2013 16:16
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I read that wonderstone is pyrophyllite, Greek for fire and leaf.
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Jun 18, 2013 16:17
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xie posted:That may have been an assumption, though I'm almost positive he confirmed nothing was like, in graveyards or national monuments. He confirmed no graveyards, flower beds or anywhere dangerous. Its funny though that verse 5 says "Get permission to dig out" which says to me it's somewhere where someone may mind you digging for it.
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Jun 18, 2013 16:30
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Milwaukeecrashdome posted:It's worth an investigation. I wanted to head over there myself so if you can get there first, I say go for it! Whoa, didn't see that edit before. Good find!
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Jun 18, 2013 16:39
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Abugadu posted:Just a few blocks west of City Hall is a statue of a five-star general. LOL. If you would like to start digging in MacArthur Square in front of the Milwaukee Police Department windows, be our guest! As far as going in circles, the hardest part of following clues alternate to the lemontiger map/interpretation is following compass directions. Anyone who ascends stairs in Plankinton Mall, for example, would have to start in the basement. Also, there is a 200 East Wisconsin (Grand) Ave. as well as west, and heading southeast will take you nowhere. To the wonderstone question, 'pyrophyllite' I understood was a type of rhyolite. In any case, when you google 'wonderstone rock' you get nonsense about the Steve Carrell movie and then links to rhyolite definitions. I think 'Wonder Stone' has been copyrighted in modern times by a few companies to showcase very specific types, but it is a very old term referring to this type of rock. *Now to blow everyone's minds--here is a monument in Juneau Park that the internet does not have Binged or Googled. I only found out what it was by finding an old newspaper scan from the 1930s. It was placed there in 1926 by a service organization (like the Shriners) called the Knights of the Round Table. It looks like this:  And here is what you see when you look straight west while standing near it:  It could be there, or at the southern foot of this flagpole base:  (Note the big rock) Could some elements of the flagpole be in the juggler's robes? Here is the eagle atop it--a fifth figure if you will:  one more photo, because you asked, here is the Grand Staircase at Lake Park, starting at the new base it is 95 steps (so close!): 
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Jun 18, 2013 17:28
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I'm motivated by Greek related factors in general, rhyolite is greek for "stream of lava but I don't see that its similar to pyrophyllite "of fire and leaf" as far as a physical comparison. Dont want to get too technical. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophyllite mentions the connection to "wonderstone". I don't know how reliable that is but I'm willing to make a stop at the geology department to learn more when I visit the University. I'll get back with that info.
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Jun 18, 2013 18:04
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I do want to point out that the "in truth be free' may have double meanings inside the Cambridge Common, as there are statues/monuments to Abe Lincoln & George Washington, both of whom are known for being honest, and both of whom are known for achieving freedom. edit: There is no GW statue, but the Washington Elm is there as are the memorials. The elm has another monument next to it that is a quote by Longfellow (not much stock in this, there are better connections nearby) about washington assuming command. xie fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 18:07
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xie posted:That may have been an assumption, though I'm almost positive he confirmed nothing was like, in graveyards or national monuments. I think someone mentioned earlier that he said nowhere that would be dangerous to dig, like right next to a road or something. No graveyards or national monuments would make sense I guess, even back in the much more relaxed time of 1982.
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Jun 18, 2013 18:12
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xie posted:I do want to point out that the "in truth be free' may have double meanings inside the Cambridge Common, as there are statues/monuments to Abe Lincoln & George Washington, both of whom are known for being honest, and both of whom are known for achieving freedom. There's also the whole Richard Dawes thing; Preiss could've been hinting at the 'liberation' (of a thing from the ground) being somewhere near the 'true' midnight rider guy. The Phillips Gate directly facing Dawes Park could've been just too much irony for him to pass up.
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Jun 18, 2013 18:53
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Guuse posted:I think someone mentioned earlier that he said nowhere that would be dangerous to dig, like right next to a road or something. No graveyards or national monuments would make sense I guess, even back in the much more relaxed time of 1982.
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Jun 18, 2013 19:10
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HoboZero posted:There's also the whole Richard Dawes thing; Preiss could've been hinting at the 'liberation' (of a thing from the ground) being somewhere near the 'true' midnight rider guy. The Phillips Gate directly facing Dawes Park could've been just too much irony for him to pass up. Dawes Island Park has only 3 things on it - 2 white benches, and a large non-green pole with a non-matching bird (gold) at the top. It's wide open and pretty impossible to dig. Cambridge Common borders both Dawes Island Park, Dawes Island (much closer), and is even part of Dawes' path.
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Jun 18, 2013 19:53
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Edit: Nevermind, reading back into the thread this was already covered. BeardMilk fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 19:58
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I walked around Medford today and didn't see much that fits. The ramparts of the Unitarian Church and the railings on the Medford Pipe Bridge echo aspects of the drawing but I cannot see much else (other than what I detailed before) to recommend it. The hitching post for Paul Revere at the Gaffey Funeral Home has a plaque from 2012 and I don't know what they had before. The Unitarian Church does have a lamp on its signage out front. I'm much more interested in Harvard/Cambridge at this point. Showed the picture to a long-time Cambridge resident last night but nothing stood out to him.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:28
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Do they have any photos? I'm dying to find photos of the Common from 1975-1981. If I had to guess, the #1 thing that has improved in the Harvard Sq area during that time is street lighting.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:31
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xie posted:Do they have any photos? I'm dying to find photos of the Common from 1975-1981. If I had to guess, the #1 thing that has improved in the Harvard Sq area during that time is street lighting. He said that Cambridge Commons have undergone a ton of renovations. I can ask what he might have when I see him on Thursday.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:34
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