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KernelSlanders posted:Yes, the same way pickup-truck and wheelbarrow mean the same thing, a wheeled container for transporting things. But a pick up truck and a wheelbarrow are very different? I don't think you have thought this comparison through. Anyway here are some maps- Europe in 1100ad.  Europe in 1200ad. 
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Jun 18, 2013 21:08
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marktheando posted:...OK so it is an American definition. In the UK the House of Commons (parliament) is the lower chamber and the House of Lords can send bills back. For much of history the monarch could refuse to sign a bill into law. There is also the Scottish parliament which has its power limited to certain areas. The word parliament implies nothing about being the highest form of power. In theory the UK parliaments gets all its power from the monarch anyway. It's like the difference between Parliament and the EU legislature.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:13
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computer parts posted:It's like the difference between Parliament and the EU legislature. Read a dictionary and find out that there's more than one definition for words already, jeez.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:18
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Replace the word "Parliament" with "Legislature". There you go, loving semantics.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:19
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computer parts posted:It's like the difference between Parliament and the EU legislature. The EU legislature is called the European Parliament.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:19
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marktheando posted:But a pick up truck and a wheelbarrow are very different? I don't think you have thought this comparison through. What are the blank areas supposed to be, 'uninhabited' or something?
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Jun 18, 2013 21:26
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It means there isn't a single polity they could draw there. Various tribal confederations, nomadic pastoralists, or just areas we might not know enough about, etc.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:29
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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It might come from a lack of clear historical records too, same as why the borders of the Russian principalities are fuzzy compared to those of, say, France.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:36
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They've left the borders in Normandy and the Welsh Marches fuzzy in the 1100 one as well, almost certainly to show the instability in the borders. Don't know why that's cleared up by 1200, those two areas in particular were still just as chaotic as they'd been in 1100. Really, a lot more of those borders should be fuzzed.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:51
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A lot of the white areas in the east also are areas where Christianity had yet to take over the local culture, and a lot of our knowledge of medieval Europe comes from church writings. Especially in the case of documenting political and legal claims, which borders would fall under.
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Jun 18, 2013 22:14
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marktheando posted:But a pick up truck and a wheelbarrow are very different? I don't think you have thought this comparison through. Bohemia was pretty well integrated into the Holy Roman Empire in both 1100 and 1200. Any idea why it wouldn't be on this map? Also, those are some pretty great maps.
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Jun 18, 2013 22:27
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NewtGoongrich posted:Bohemia was pretty well integrated into the Holy Roman Empire in both 1100 and 1200. Any idea why it wouldn't be on this map? Also, those are some pretty great maps. Bohemia is outlined in the Holy Roman Empire's colour, and in those maps it means that it is a vassal or satellite state of the country in question. So the map does kind of recognize Bohemia as part of the empire, just as an autonomous part.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:22
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marktheando posted:How is it not? You mean the country with the preponderance of native speakers of a language creates definitions of words based on it's particular usage? That's shocking. Downright shocking. But what's this? A member of the Anglophone world hating on the US, apropos of nothing? Real loving shocking. Use determines meaning, and we are the ones doing the using. Here's a map: 
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Jun 18, 2013 23:32
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menino posted:You mean the country with the preponderance of native speakers of a language creates definitions of words based on it's particular usage? That's shocking. Downright shocking. It's always nice when someone throws out a bonafide Mercator projection just to make a map terrible for no reason. Also a whole lot of people (edit: 125 million) speak English in India. English speakers by density: 
Bip Roberts fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 23:34
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Dusseldorf posted:It's always nice when someone throws out a bonafide Mercator projection just to make a map terrible for no reason. Also a whole lot of people (edit: 125 million) speak English in India. And China too. But they are not native speakers, they are English "users", which is a completely different category, mostly that they can handle the passive skills but falter with active ones. Mercators suck, but the numbers are the numbers.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:40
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Dusseldorf posted:It's always nice when someone throws out a bonafide Mercator projection just to make a map terrible for no reason. Also a whole lot of people (edit: 125 million) speak English in India. Willing to bet they didn't care much for the projection and also that it's talking about native speakers. I'm sure there aren't 70 million people in the USA that literally cannot speak English, and I'm pretty sure that Spain, Italy, France and Germany have more than a couple million speakers of English. What's really missing is African representation, unless local languages get primacy there; I'm not sure on what the status of the former British colonies is language-wise other than that for many/most of them English is an official language that people generally learn.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:50
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menino posted:You mean the country with the preponderance of native speakers of a language creates definitions of words based on it's particular usage? That's shocking. Downright shocking. gently caress's sake man I was jokingly complaining about how I was confused by a difference in word usage, I hardly class that as 'hating on the US'.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:57
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edit: okay once again I need to not post.
Baloogan fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 02:40
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menino posted:You mean the country with the preponderance of native speakers of a language creates definitions of words based on it's particular usage? That's shocking. Downright shocking. Speaking as an American, shut the gently caress up bitch! ::gb2gbs  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 19, 2013 03:31
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^ Watch out with using memes outside of the meme thread.menino posted:You mean the country with the preponderance of native speakers of a language creates definitions of words based on it's particular usage? That's shocking. Downright shocking. Yes, the fact that we insist that the US Congress falls under the generic category of 'parliament', regardless of its specific name, is due to our undying hatred of America.
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Jun 19, 2013 04:38
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^Since this is apparently the pedantry thread, I'd like to point out that it's an image macro, not a meme.
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Jun 19, 2013 07:51
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quote:Europe in 1100ad.
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Jun 19, 2013 08:37
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Lawman 0 posted:What are the blank areas supposed to be, 'uninhabited' or something? 'gently caress if we know what was there back then' probably, just like borders get uncertain outside of western Europe
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Jun 19, 2013 09:01
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To add to the pedantry: the very concept of 'borders' is rather yougn as well; aboaut until the French Revolution, two neighbouring villages on each side of a border wouldn't necessarily see themselves as French or German or Russian and Polish or whatever; they were just part of two different feudal systems, at the top of which two different monarchs stood. It could well be that twenty kilometres further into say, Germany, there would again be villages and areas 'belonging' to the French monarchy. One example: The county of Charolais was an area in middle to eastern France that belonged to the Spanish monarchy from 1559 to 1684. That didn't mean that it wasn't "French", though: the people there continued to speak French, the area stayed within the feudal hierarchy of France with the French king at the top and you wouldn't have noticed at all when crossing the border that you had entered "Spain". The Spanish Hapsburgs sold it to a French nobleman whose dynasty continued to keep it as a "sovereign" county until 1761. It wasn't nominally a part of France until then, yet it... was. It's kind of complicated.  Charolais is the yellow blob to the right of the red guy.
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Jun 19, 2013 09:47
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metric system by adoptiopn year
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Jun 19, 2013 12:15
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Trench_Rat posted:metric system by adoptiopn year  . They just didn't do anything with it.
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Jun 19, 2013 12:24
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Guavanaut posted:The US adopted the metric system in 1875 More specifically it has been a legal form of measurements since 1866 and the US was one of the 17 original signers and ratifiers of the Metre Convention. The US just then never got rid of the USCS. The USCS in fact is now measured officially in terms of the SI but it's not illegal so it's still around unlike other countries which actively outlawed non-metric systems.
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Jun 19, 2013 12:56
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rzeszowianin 44 posted:The second map seems straight out of bizarro-world showing Great Poland, Little Poland, Mazovia (all administrative regions of Poland) as neighbors. First time I have ever seen that. One of the Polish Kings had like 6 sons in the 1200s, and rather than let the eldest inherit it all, he allowed them all to have essentially independent duchies. Then the Holy Roman Empire stepped in up and awarded the King of Poland crown to the Duke of Bohemia.
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Jun 19, 2013 13:20
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memy posted:^Since this is apparently the pedantry thread, I'd like to point out that it's an image macro, not a meme. If we're going down that road, it is both, as Unhelpful High School Teacher is a definite meme.
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Jun 19, 2013 13:54
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Trench_Rat posted:metric system by adoptiopn year The USA, Burma, and Liberia are the last bastions of defiance against French influence. 
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Jun 19, 2013 14:16
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Mister Adequate posted:The USA, Burma, and Liberia are the last bastions of defiance against French influence. Liberia was started by the US; what's Burma's excuse?
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Jun 19, 2013 14:18
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System Metternich posted:To add to the pedantry: the very concept of 'borders' is rather yougn as well; aboaut until the French Revolution, two neighbouring villages on each side of a border wouldn't necessarily see themselves as French or German or Russian and Polish or whatever; they were just part of two different feudal systems, at the top of which two different monarchs stood. It could well be that twenty kilometres further into say, Germany, there would again be villages and areas 'belonging' to the French monarchy. It's worth noting that the results of this kind of thing can still be seen today, in a few places. The Dutch/Belgian town of Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog, for example:  Wikipedia posted:Baarle-Hertog is noted for its complicated borders with Baarle-Nassau in the Netherlands. In total it consists of 24 separate parcels of land. Apart from the main division (called Zondereigen from the main hamlet) located north of the Belgian town of Merksplas, there are twenty Belgian exclaves in the Netherlands and three other sections on the Dutch-Belgian border. There are also seven Dutch exclaves within the Belgian exclaves. Six of them are located in the largest one and a seventh in the second-largest one.
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Jun 19, 2013 14:26
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arhra posted:It's worth noting that the results of this kind of thing can still be seen today, in a few places. How difficult would it be if they wanted to make their borders less insane? If it's the way it is because of the treaty of Maastricht, can it be changed by "normal" legislation?
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Jun 19, 2013 14:37
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There's an even more extreme instance between India and Bangladesh.Wikipedia posted:There are 102 Indian exclaves (96 of which are first-order enclaves) inside Bangladesh and 71 Bangladeshi exclaves (68 of which are first-order enclaves) inside India. Inside these exclaves are an additional 24 counter-enclaves (21 Bangladeshi, 3 Indian) and one Indian counter-counter-enclave, called Dahala Khagrabari #51. They have an estimated combined population between 50,000 and 100,000.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:01
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prefect posted:How difficult would it be if they wanted to make their borders less insane? If it's the way it is because of the treaty of Maastricht, can it be changed by "normal" legislation? Well, you'd have to have both countries involved, so it'd still require a new treaty, but with how settled the area is you'd have to deal with the thorny issue of what to do with all the people who live there if they're on the "wrong" side of the new borders. I suspect it's just more trouble than it's worth, especially since Belgium and the Netherlands (along with Luxembourg) had arrangements for a customs union and free movement of workers/capital/etc, even before the EU came into being.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:21
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We're too busy squabbling over internal borders here in Belgium. Also, negotiating with the Netherlands about anything is annoying as hell - see the Westerschelde.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:29
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LP97S posted:More specifically it has been a legal form of measurements since 1866 and the US was one of the 17 original signers and ratifiers of the Metre Convention. The US just then never got rid of the USCS. The USCS in fact is now measured officially in terms of the SI but it's not illegal so it's still around unlike other countries which actively outlawed non-metric systems. We have a split system. The FDA does some things in metric. Liquor is sold in metric volumes (although we of course use different metric sizes than everyone else). The UK is also on a split system. For example their speed limits are in miles per hour.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:37
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KernelSlanders posted:We have a split system. The FDA does some things in metric. Liquor is sold in metric volumes (although we of course use different metric sizes than everyone else). The UK is also on a split system. For example their speed limits are in miles per hour. Canada does a bit of this too, though interestingly in kind of opposite ways to the UK. The UK has road signage in miles but you generally purchase food in grams/kilograms at, say, a deli counter, whereas in Canada it's the other way round (you drive x kilometres to the butcher and pick up a pound and a half of beef). In Australia the only thing imperial still gets used for is drinks at bars and estimating distances if you're talking to older folk ("Whadaya say, Greg?" "Shift 'er a couple inches to the left cobber")
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Jun 19, 2013 15:58
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Yeah, in Canada height and weight are the only things where the metric system is still more common than imperial.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:47
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KernelSlanders posted:Liquor is sold in metric volumes (although we of course use different metric sizes than everyone else). Wait, what? How do we use a "different metric system" than everyone else? I know that several parts of the Imperial system are different (US Pint is 16 oz, I think in the UK it's 20?) but how to things like milliliters differ? Or do you just mean the [i]amount[i/] we use it different? Like...we routinely sell them in 750 ml and 1.5 L sizes, where in other countries it's typically .5L and 1K?
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Jun 19, 2013 16:49
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