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I figure he just wants to cover all bases (even if its a million wrong theories) so that if by some miraculous chance he hits the lotto and its found he can say he thought of it first.
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Jun 19, 2013 05:58
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OperaMouse posted:I appreciate your contributions, but I think you focus too much on trying to match simple shapes like lines, squares and semi-circles. As mentioned in the guidelines, there are thousands, if not millions of those in any city. How can you think that after I've given a verse based reasoning, pointed out a number of objects that exist in a sparse environment giving relatively no other options to consider and yet there are very concrete and fact found visuals needing no effort to manipulate using mspaint. Did you're brain melt and then regenerate a NY accent? Yes, there's more to be figured out, but I'm clearly not going to engage in a discussion about NY. Great place to party though.
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Jun 19, 2013 06:42
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Cambridge This is an awful time to post this given the current discussion, but now that I've seen it I can't unsee it. I looked back in the thread a bit (I haven't really been following the Boston talk) and didn't see this posted. Apologies if someone already has. But with the excitement around Cambridge Common maybe this is actually something useful? Does anyone but me make an association between the ball-field, worn path and proper paved path with the top stone in the arch? Scale is obviously off and the paths are angling in towards each other too tightly but if the artists were just working from Polaroids that the writer gave them then I think that would probably be excusable...   1978 showing the bald earth in right field back then. Maybe this is a feature that gets worn into the park pretty consistently? Going back further it looks like this may have been a regular path at some point.  In Google Earth it looks like there's a lamp post in the vicinity of where the circle looks like it would be. If people are going to be poking around the park in the next couple of days then maybe it's worth looking at. Guuse posted:I'd hope that he'd have given some serious thought to selecting clues that would hopefully be static for a long time.  Or maybe the rubbed out bit in the stone represents the bare earth, the crack is the normal path and the circle is on the far side of the path near the southern end of the play ground. Perhaps a really out of scale reference to the John Bridge statue. Guuse fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 07:37
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Urban Smurf posted:Yes, there's more to be figured out, but I'm clearly not going to engage in a discussion about NY. Great place to party though. I support your alternative theories and fact-finding 100%. But, can you start with the more essential elements of the puzzle like the onion domes or the "color test"? In my mind, it's totally possible to stumble upon the one correct solution by doing what you are doing, but it will save you a lot of time if you start by finding an exceptionally good match for something important and then working from there.
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Jun 19, 2013 07:51
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Guuse posted:worn path, paved path There are so many lines in the image, it's impossible to figure it out. I guess, we should assume that only the area with the squiggly crack and the crater is important, but that doesn't really match the park all that well. Also, what the hell, Preiss, so many landmarks around that park and you really couldn't give better directions than "lit by lamplight and you can kind of see some letters"? What are the building numbers like there? We still have the 112 to match, remember. Nesetril fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 07:59
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Cask 2 Verse 6 Cape Romaine near Charleston, SC Line 1: Of all the romance retold First lines narrow things down, but only a little, but they make more sense when things start to gel with the other lines and the image. We know this is a good reference to the book Treasure Island. The purpose of the line is to guide our attention to an island; from the lat and long we know it will be in the vicinity of Charleston. I think there's more to the line and we shouldn't understimate and null any possibility it might offer. I return to the simple question, why these five words? Of...all the romance...retold... Taking things out on a limb, I consider that romance could be worked into a theme about bird mating. When a bird performs it's ritual mating call, a return call is made by the prospective mate. If we knew for sure that Preiss was an avid bird enthusiast, maybe we'd have a profile reason to consider this interpretation which is exactly and literarly a case of romance being retold. But I don't know Preiss' interests or background much at all so I need good reason to connect this tenuous idea to the verse/image foundation. Are there any bird references? Yes, line 6 of verse 6. The image has a winged woman, but those aren't birds wings and I'm not about to go into the mating rituals of insects or women. Stand and listen to the birds This is also a line about standing and listening. I wonder if standing implies that there is an option to sit or none at all. There are two other lines that make reference to auditory experience. Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words Water, could mean ocean or lake body or river, but it could also mean rain. Cool, could mean temperature, but it could also mean a jazz rhythm. Rain drops falling makes a percussive sound. I'm not going to go looking at connections to Creedence Clearwater Revival... I just think we should identify with the listening to rain idea and understand that it is a percussive quality like that of a drum. I discovered that birds have a variety of means to make their mating calls, one of which is referred to as drumming, which is typical of woodpeckers. I proposed earlier that the "bar that binds" could be a water cistern barrel. A bar is a place to go for a drink. The word bind and hold are similar in meaning. A barrel that holds water might make a clear sound when the rain falls on it, or it might be leaking or dripping from a spout, *plup*...*plup*...*plup*. The picture above is a nice photo of the two lighthouses on the island near Charleston. The older one on the right was built in 1827 and was replaced by the taller one in 1857, it's lamp structure relocated to the new tower. I had this epiphany today about the story of Odysseus where he tricks the giant cyclops Polyphemus by saying his name is "No Man" after blinding him with a tree branch. I thought this older lighthouse was like a cyclops, a giant thing with a single source for it's beaming gaze, but then when it's light structure was removed it became essentialy a blind tower. I like that the proportion of the circular shape of the bar top of the old lighthouse is nearly exact to the daisy center in the illustration if you were to view it from the taller lighthouse and as I imagine hold you're book up in front of you to compare. I feel sure that Preiss had taken a polaroid of that. Anyways, I'm not pulling the Polyphemus reference out of my rear end, the moth wings on the woman fit very closely the patterns on the Polyphemus Moth. The reasoning for why I like the lighthouse connection to begin with utilizes the lion, since both lions and lighthouses may have keepers. I elaborated previously about how there was a famous local story about the Keeper, Andrew Johnson (same name as Abraham Lincoln's successor!) of the Cape Romain lighthouses who murdered his wife. The interesting thing is he wasn't charged with murder. He got off on account of no witnesses and his claim that she commited suicide. He confessed his sins on his deathbed several years later. This small select tale really connects to the line Freedom at the birth of a century if you consider that the very first century, year 1, signifying the "Year of our Lord", his birth and then later in the century with his crucifixion upon which was the result of the first person to experience freedom: Barabbas, the murder who got off free. Andrew Johnson also got off free. Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him I'm still uncertain on what May 1913 could be. I'm leaning towards Edwin Booth and his fraternal twin children Edwin and Edwina as the best way to read the line. Twins are a good way to relate to the twin lighthouses and also a perfect choice in relating Booth's brother John to the incident which brought about Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jul 8, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 08:13
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Urban Smurf posted:if you consider that the very first century, year 1, signifying the "Year of our Lord" began with his crucifixion upon which was the result of the first person to experience freedom: Barabbas, the murder who got off free. Andrew Johnson also got off free. You are going to get crucified for this theory, dude. Wikipedia: "Scholars have provided estimates for the year of crucifixion in the range AD 30–36". But it's beautiful.
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Jun 19, 2013 08:24
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Nesetril posted:I support your alternative theories and fact-finding 100%. But, can you start with the more essential elements of the puzzle like the onion domes or the "color test"? In my mind, it's totally possible to stumble upon the one correct solution by doing what you are doing, but it will save you a lot of time if you start by finding an exceptionally good match for something important and then working from there. I suppose I've already had a lot of stumblings in this hunt. You just haven't been informed of them. I wish I could show you an exceptionally good match for something so you could be really excited and brain melty about. I'm rocking a different process than others, so if I remain misunderstood because of the presumption that this hunt is designed a specific way, that being to find the exceptional match (which I think is a myth given there's just too much artistic license outside of the Cleveland and Chicago solutions) and then work from there in a dumbed down scavenger hunt mode to find a luckyspot perspective match or whatever manner of location specific clues are at work in that particular case. It's a good approach, it is hopeful and empirical (using what was known to work in Chicago and Cleveland), but I think it becomes limited or obsolete as the next puzzles become more complex and cerebral. I'm doing my best to dish up some main courses. I don't really know how to resolve any of these without being at each given site to make adjustments to my theory, but I think I've worked out some thorough leads based on a backbone theory on how Preiss worked in some Ancient Greekness and carefully chose a first liner that has a further application once it narrows things down a bit. Evidence of this idea comes from my take on the Chicago verse, Line 1: Where M and B are set in stone The phrase "set in stone" is often associated with making an agreement. While the M and B were determined to be Mozart and Beethoven nearby, the casque was found in Grant Park. The word 'grant' may also exist in the context of making an agreement whereby it gives allowance or permission. Like I said before, it takes a lot of inspection and stumbling to get things to gel. BTW, if I do come up with a correct location and someone else gets it before me, well, good for them. I'm not concerned with pettiness. I'd rather make a loud satisfying fart in celebration. If anyone likes what I've serving, it's still going to be a lot of work getting to the dessert. Good luck goons.
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Jun 19, 2013 08:33
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Urban Smurf posted:I suppose I've already had a lot of stumblings in this hunt. You just haven't been informed of them. I wish I could show you an exceptionally good match for something so you could be really excited and brain melty about. I'm rocking a different process than others, so if I remain misunderstood because of the presumption that this hunt is designed a specific way, that being to find the exceptional match (which I think is a myth given there's just too much artistic license outside of the Cleveland and Chicago solutions) and then work from there in a dumbed down scavenger hunt mode to find a luckyspot perspective match or whatever manner of location specific clues are at work in that particular case. It's a good approach, it is hopeful and empirical (using what was known to work in Chicago and Cleveland), but I think it becomes limited or obsolete as the next puzzles become more complex and cerebral. I think you've been working on these puzzles too hard for too long dude. That tortuous connection between Grant park and "set in stone" is so far-fetched, you're just playing numerology games with these puzzles rather than giving careful thought to any one of them. Just because you *can* draw connections between absolutely anything in the world doesn't mean you should for solving these poems. If he used logic as twisted as that Grant one, or like your No man->Odysseus->Polyphemos->lighthouse->lion connection, none of these puzzles would ever have been solved ever.
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Jun 19, 2013 08:44
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Urban Smurf posted:if you consider that the very first century, year 1, signifying the "Year of our Lord" began with his crucifixion I had a silly dream about this treasure hunt again last night. I and some other people were 100% sure we had the location, which was a hidden compartment in a wall and we had to poke a hole in the wallpaper or whatever it was that covered the hole. The picture on the wall right where the compartment was what was made us sure we had the right place, but I don't remember what logic connected it to any verse or picture. ...but the cask wasn't there.
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Jun 19, 2013 09:30
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Neutrino posted:Milwaukee I have a few problems with the city hall explanation personally. First, the whole climb to the top of city hall thing seems odd because it dead ends right there. You follow the clues to the top, and then have to make the assumption to go back down? Second, the park you pointed out is east over pavement, not southeast over rock and soil. I stopped around the Holton Ave Bridge today because of a few prominent staircases I wanted to check out, and you can see city hall, but the perspective is opposite of the picture, but perhaps thats intentional, It's Hard to tell as a new condo building is in the way... but the stair counts didn't add up. Maybe they did 30 years ago though. I also did see an oldish looking sign through the trees just off of water street as well that says Penny Wise, so maybe its worth looking into again. To add another theory if someone wants to check it out, or I may go look myself, I was thinking what if the Forest Home Cemetery is the starting point? The Three Stories of Mitchell could refer to the Mitchell family plot where three generations of the Mitchells are buried, The Southeast corner of the Cemetery is called the Garden of Time, and there are plenty of adjacent parks to end up in. It is also between Lincoln and Cleveland aves (cast in copper / beating of the world?) I can't find any stairs around there on google maps though. Maybe the 92 steps are a metaphor or not actually stairs? Maybe all the obscure clues lead to graves or landmarks in or near the cemetery? Also, is there any concrete reason to think that the country is Germany and not Poland? That's the only way that theory could have merit.
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Jun 19, 2013 10:37
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rookhunter posted:I dont think anyone else knew anything about their location. Preiss said he would mail the polaroids to Palencar and then they were destroyed. It wasn't just polaroids BTW - in Egbert's newspaper article he said Byron would "Fedex me these dossiers with obscure photos and notes", so who knows what ideas and drawings he might have worked into the images. (But there's no point asking Palencar for info; he's not saying.) Re: Milwaukee, I'm still interested in this rhyolite wonderstone in Juneau Park. The introduction also includes the word..."You are about to learn of their wonderstones". Would like to see some pics of that. Incidentally BP also mentioned a particular Field Guide entry in connection with this one in this newspaper cutting, though there's probably nothing in it...he probably just had a bad meal out while he was staying in Milwaukee.  bonestructure posted:I've formally asked the City of Charleston Parks Department for permission to dig in the planting bed beside High Battery just below where the geodetic marker is embedded in the seawall. I'd also be interested in some more pics of this surrounding area...not sure where it is...? BJG fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 12:16
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It has been said before, but I think it bears repeating. If you can't see it while looking with shoes on the ground, or find it in a gradeschool geography book/state map from 1982, you are probably wrong. All these google map aerials just aren't how these images were put together. He took polaroids. POLAROIDS. With a camera. On the ground. Not from an aircraft. The one puzzle had an outline of Ohio that anywho who has ever seen a map of Ohio or the US could match it to, and that is the only clue from either solved puzzle that is not a boots on the ground match afaik. The few theories that have something obvious, like the shape of roanoake island are reasonable. Again, look at a map from 1982 that you could get at a state visitors bureau or in a textbook.
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Jun 19, 2013 13:41
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KennyMan666 posted:It began with his birth, not crucifixion. Mannn, thanks for catching that dumb mistake. I won't call nitpicking, anyone should deserve a good kick to the stomach for that. drat, I downed a can of redbull blue about 30 minutes past my bedtime and didn't get to sleep till four hours later. If people want to get this hunt solved in 30 days, I recommend they experiment with that beverage. CronoGamer posted:I think you've been working on these puzzles too hard for too long dude. That tortuous connection between Grant park and "set in stone" is so far-fetched, you're just playing numerology games with these puzzles rather than giving careful thought to any one of them. Just because you *can* draw connections between absolutely anything in the world doesn't mean you should for solving these poems. If he used logic as twisted as that Grant one, or like your No man->Odysseus->Polyphemos->lighthouse->lion connection, none of these puzzles would ever have been solved ever. CronoGamer, I am giving careful thought to this. I admit my reports seem twisted, but in my defense the author Byron Preiss has his role in creating a twisted puzzle. Take the "set in stone" idea with a grain of salt. It was an afterthought to begin with and a casque was found in Chicago without a need for the idea. I just felt it was worthwhile to point it out as a tactic that may be repeated in the other verses. I have a theory that I will continue to test that each first line of each verse has a dual purpose. Cask 10 Neutrino, I'm really with you on the City Hall being a big clue. I've wondered if it mattered that the angle on the perspective from where the photo of City Hall might have been made from. Looks to me like it fits with standing at the intersection of E. State and Water street. I'm partial to the Mitchell Hall (also named after Alexander Mitchell) because it fits the compass arc distance of about 2.75 miles from City Hall which also passes through Kosciuszko, but that's also not far off of intersecting with those Domes at Mitchell Park. I keep thinking there's some ulterior significance in the "three stories" detail. I'm not inclined to pursue the numerology of three to any great extent, but it does put me to wonder more about what kinds of stories would be told by Alexander himself. He was Scottish, a banker, a congressman, a railroad magnate, an avid curler (says wikipedia). He certainly associates with several landmarks in Milwaukee. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 14:46
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Cask 2 - Charleston, SCBJG posted:I'd also be interested in some more pics of this surrounding area...not sure where it is...? This is what the geodetic triangulation marker looks like.  I put a blue star on the Battery map to show its location. You can also go to the location (though you land a couple of feet off) in Google street view: http://goo.gl/maps/yNFNw  Standing on the top of the seawall at the spot of the marker and looking toward the park, you see this. The Fort Sumter statue is just to the left out of the shot. The statue of General Moultrie you see in the picture is on the same spot where the USS Maine's capstan stood in the 1980s. The "white house" is off to the right.  High Battery is just that, it's about six feet high. It is also about six feet wide and is flagged with slate to make a promenade on top of the wall. The marker is on the water side of the wall at the edge of the promenade, embedded in the concrete surrounding the flagstones. The picture was taken while standing on top of High Battery on the promenade at the spot where the marker is embedded. The gentleman in the blue shirt is standing at street level in the planting bed. I plan to set a plumb line on top of the geodetic marker and run the string across the wall to drop down into the approximately 5-foot-wide planting bed that is between the wall of High Battery and the street. I'll then set markers for a foot on each side of the plumb line, which will give me an area approximately 2'x5' to dig in. The spot I'm going to dig looks like this. It's hard-packed sand but it loosens when water is poured on it (and there's plenty of water handy  I just have to bring a bucket.) The logic for choosing this spot: I am assuming that the verse is not a series of descriptors of one spot, but more a set of directions to get you to the casque's location. So the first part gives a general indicator for WPG, with the verse that paraphrases the opening of Treasure Island (a story about pirates) to point you to a location with a strong pirate association, then the bandstand (stand and listen), the Hunley marker with its fountains (cool clear sound of water), the Simms statue (harken to the words), the Jasper Revolutionary War monument (freedom at the birth of a century), the Maine capstan (May 1913, the date the Maine capstan was given to Charleston, that date appeared on a plaque on the capstan's pedestal), and the actual pirate monument (on the 8th a scene etc.) This gets you to the east end of the park. The location then narrows down with "Between two arms extended" (stand in the area between the pointing arms of the Jasper and Sumter statues, facing the Battery and the harbor), below the bar that binds (the "bar that binds" is the Battery itself, below it is the planting bed), beside the long palm's shadow (there is a tall palmetto there, and I think Preiss wrote the clue to specify the shadow, not the palm itself, because the casque is technically outside of the park proper), embedded in the sand (the sand-filled planting bed, because the only other major areas of sand in WPG are the walking paths and I tested them, they are hard-packed like cement and tremendously difficult to dig in.) Preiss is being very specific here: the box is in sand, not soil, and the curious word choice, "embedded", hints at the planting bed. Finally "white house close at hand", the large white mansion of 2 S Battery is in direct line of sight from the spot, about forty feet away. My logic for choosing the geodetic marker is a bit shakier; I am going by the coordinate numbers in the lion's mane (the geodetic marker is registered with the USGS using that latitude and longitude), because the marker is a triangulation marker and the Fort Sumter mask's string forms a triangle, and because the marker is directly in front of you when following the verse as I've laid out above. It's a hunch, essentially. I keep asking myself, well, if it is the marker, wouldn't Preiss have included some disguised version of the marker in the image? I don't think so, because that would be too big of a clue. A verse all about WPG, a visual that looks like the geodetic marker, bam, you dig there. It would be too easily solvable, he had to leave the marker out of the image. Or so I keep telling myself. You were right in your earlier post, confirmation bias is a real stumbling block here. But I think this has as good a chance as most theories, so I'm going with it.McInery, did you ever get a chance to look at that little war memorial on Sullivan's Island? (BJG's theory.) bonestructure fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 15:28
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Bonestructure, I emailed you and another contact in Charleston. Tjgrey at Q4T recently submitted his report on searching the WPG location. Maybe he'll be of some help with your dig. You have a very good looking theory, IMHO.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:39
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jassi007 posted:It has been said before, but I think it bears repeating. If you can't see it while looking with shoes on the ground, or find it in a gradeschool geography book/state map from 1982, you are probably wrong. All these google map aerials just aren't how these images were put together. He took polaroids. POLAROIDS. With a camera. On the ground. Not from an aircraft. The one puzzle had an outline of Ohio that anywho who has ever seen a map of Ohio or the US could match it to, and that is the only clue from either solved puzzle that is not a boots on the ground match afaik. The few theories that have something obvious, like the shape of roanoake island are reasonable. Again, look at a map from 1982 that you could get at a state visitors bureau or in a textbook.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:57
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Thanks for the info bonestructure. You've got some good ideas, a hunch, and a willingness to try digging. Attaboy. FWIW, as you probably know, people previously focussed on a similar geodetic marker in the grounds of Moultrie, and I went looking for some matches for that. quote:The diamond has a kind of blue circle with triangular shards which might suggest the disk.  I was also interested in similarities between some of the images; eg pictures 1 and 11 both contain a triangle with a dot which is reminiscent of the marker.  I have a theory that it's possible there may be "crossover clues" in the verses and images which will become more apparent if more puzzles are solved.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:07
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Sten Freak posted:Yeah. In the 80s the average person may have a travel atlas in their car which would show roads and a very few major landmarks, not footpaths, tree lines and other readily accessible landmark data like we have today, and not on the scale or detail that some of these \/ suggestions carry. I agree to some extent, which is why I own some vintage triple-A road map to maintain a perspective on this hunt. Preiss couldve easily traced any road contour and provided it to the artist. The use of aerials is in reality a good tool and not a big departure from the manual references of a pre-internet age. Sten Freak, you seem to disagree that the tail of the centaur was intended as a match to the curved roadway around the Italian and Grecian Gardens. Seriously? Im shocked you can't see that visual exactness.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:17
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Milwaukee Cast in Copper I'm thinking this might refer to tossing(cast) a penny(copper) in a fountain. As in the fountain in the center of the 92 step staircase in Plankington Arcade. Not that it really helps with the location, as I don't understand the value of going inside buildings to find a cask that has to be dug up. Maybe he thought people would have a difficult time figuring out the cask is in Milwaukee, and most of the riddle is made to establish that it IS in Milwaukee somewhere. Maybe only the second half of the riddle points to the exact location, and we have to figure out from the picture where the "culvert" is. TipsyMc fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 16:25
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Urban Smurf posted:The use of aerials is in reality a good tool and not a big departure from the manual references of a pre-internet age. that depends on what use. People are literally trying to match pathes and fountains and baseball fields from aerial photos to poo poo in the paintings. There is no way that is how this gets solved. If it isn't a road, river, or border (city county state) it is not going to be solved from aerial view. If you can trace a road that matches some shape on a painting, sure maybe. if you are like this fountain square looks like this square from google maps, no way. nope nope nope.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:29
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jassi007 posted:that depends on what use. People are literally trying to match pathes and fountains and baseball fields from aerial photos to poo poo in the paintings. There is no way that is how this gets solved. If it isn't a road, river, or border (city county state) it is not going to be solved from aerial view. If you can trace a road that matches some shape on a painting, sure maybe. if you are like this fountain square looks like this square from google maps, no way. nope nope nope. He's just going to reply that you just don't understand him. That tail is just a tail and his use of the word "exactness" is comical at best since the tail has a loop at the end of it and the road doesn't. Soon he'll say one of the orbs is "exactly" like the head of Ulysses S Grant if you rotate it, mirror it, expand it, and discount the curvature of the nose and mouth.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:34
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bonestructure posted:Cask 2 - Charleston, SC Nice! If this works, I'm totally taking credit for pointing out that "arms" could have meant between two arms of two different statues at WPG.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:39
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Morally Inept posted:He's just going to reply that you just don't understand him. That tail is just a tail and his use of the word "exactness" is comical at best since the tail has a loop at the end of it and the road doesn't. Soon he'll say one of the orbs is "exactly" like the head of Ulysses S Grant if you rotate it, mirror it, expand it, and discount the curvature of the nose and mouth. Maybe a path on a park map would also be an exception. Like the kind they have in those little boxes at the park or whatever. I am also real skeptical of those "Indiana Jones" solves where when the sun strikes this thing on the 12 day of the 9th month at the 3rd hour" all will be revealed! I'm honestly not trying to call out or pick on urban elf. Someone on this page posted some field and then some aerial photo from the 80's. Seriously, without the internet where would the average person get an aerial photo of a field in Harvard? Its not like every public library stocks ALL the aerial photos of the whole country. Its just insanity to expect to solve these that way because they weren't built that way. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 16:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Nice! You get credit for that, and BJG for identifying the November 8th date for the hanging of most of the pirates and explaining that goddamned pear, and TotalHell for correcting me that the Maine capstan was in WPG in the 1980s and not Hampton Park like I thought. If anything is actually found at the spot, this has definitely been a group effort. I don't know, sometimes I feel totally convinced that this is it, and other times I think the whole explanation is kind of stupid. It's worth digging a few holes to settle it one way or the other. Edit: Wow, HA, you get credit for more than the statue suggestion. Either I didn't realize, or I didn't retain that you are the one who first suggested those planting beds below High Battery and to orient by a marker embedded in the Battery. About half of this theory is yours, I think. bonestructure fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 16:47
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Urban Smurf posted:I admit my reports seem twisted, but in my defense the author Byron Preiss has his role in creating a twisted puzzle.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:51
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rookhunter posted:There's nothing twisted about the hunt. Preiss didn't use dual meanings in Chicago or Cleveland. There is no evidence that he used aerial pics to line up locations in the paintings. It's very unlikely he used visual clues from one city to lead you to another. At some point you have to ask yourself, "maybe its me?" Maybe that's why the Cleveland and Chicago casks were found, and the others weren't. We don't know just how convoluted he got on some of these, because they haven't been solved. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Wild ideas will remain wild ideas that go nowhere. I've had plenty myself. The key is knowing when a wild idea is a dead end and letting it go. I'm all for everyone posting any crazy idea they have. It's all intellectual grist for us to grind on. Somebody may have an idea for how to interpret something that fails for him, but might work for someone else working on another city. If you think an idea is dumb, feel free to say so but then move on. Endless bitchfests about whose idea is dumber are not productive. Dumb ideas will die on their own.
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Jun 19, 2013 17:02
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MilwaukeeJimong5 posted:I have a few problems with the city hall explanation personally. First, the whole climb to the top of city hall thing seems odd because it dead ends right there. You follow the clues to the top, and then have to make the assumption to go back down? Second, the park you pointed out is east over pavement, not southeast over rock and soil. What makes sense about the "dead end" of the stairs is that you would climb up to see the "compass" that is on the floor of City Hall, presumably only clearly visible from above. Then go back down. Pass the compass on your way out the southern end of the building to the "culvert." I posted a picture of the compass a couple pages back, but you can find it quickly in an image search. And have we determined yet that the Plankinton Arcade definitively has 92 steps? Anybody visit there yet?
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Jun 19, 2013 17:05
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bonestructure posted:Cask 2 - Charleston, SC Depending on when you plan to dig, I'm down to help.
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Jun 19, 2013 17:18
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jassi007 posted:It has been said before, but I think it bears repeating. If you can't see it while looking with shoes on the ground, or find it in a gradeschool geography book/state map from 1982, you are probably wrong. All these google map aerials just aren't how these images were put together. He took polaroids. POLAROIDS. With a camera. On the ground. Not from an aircraft. The one puzzle had an outline of Ohio that anywho who has ever seen a map of Ohio or the US could match it to, and that is the only clue from either solved puzzle that is not a boots on the ground match afaik. The few theories that have something obvious, like the shape of roanoake island are reasonable. Again, look at a map from 1982 that you could get at a state visitors bureau or in a textbook. Agreed. If you're talking about tracing a road from a map AND you have several other items that match your location then I could see the correlation here, but there's no way the dude obtained helicopter photos of park footpaths and put them in someone's hair follicles. Google Maps in general is just an awful thing to use to solve these, because you should be trying to solve it with things people had available in 1980.
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Jun 19, 2013 17:27
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jassi007 posted:Maybe a path on a park map would also be an exception. Like the kind they have in those little boxes at the park or whatever. I am also real skeptical of those "Indiana Jones" solves where when the sun strikes this thing on the 12 day of the 9th month at the 3rd hour" all will be revealed! Comparing the aerial photos is just a tool to describe the park features that I'm talking about. Specifically baseball diamond -> path past right field -> something where the circle is? We're talking about a really discrete area of the park and it seems to me that if you were to make a hand drawn map from the ground of those features (they're right next to each other) I don't know how it wouldn't look something like what appears in the drawing. It would also go towards explaining the scale problems that show up when you try to compare them to the actual objects from above -- as you say people wouldn't have had access to that information easily so it looks as you'd see it from the ground. It's literally child's play. As in I literally remember running around doing stupid poo poo like that as a child with friends in the late 70s and early 80s. The fact that it's generic and that there are plenty of other things that might look like it is a very valid criticism. Heck, given the apparent lack of other matches to the park and the difficulty that people seem to be having putting it together with the verse maybe means that this is entirely the wrong location. It's just something I saw when looking at it last night before going to bed and thought I'd post it to see if it made sense to anyone else. Nesetril posted:There are so many lines in the image, it's impossible to figure it out. I guess, we should assume that only the area with the squiggly crack and the crater is important, but that doesn't really match the park all that well. Also, what the hell, Preiss, so many landmarks around that park and you really couldn't give better directions than "lit by lamplight and you can kind of see some letters"? The square thing is what got me trying to associate the area with the baseball (or whatever) diamond. So if that connection doesn't make sense on the ground then yeah you're right about the rest not being worthwhile either. Also, it's probably been pointed out but in regards to landmarks in the park: Who pass the coliseum With metal walls Could be referring to the baseball field. Metal walls are the backstop and side fencing. "Coliseum" is an intentional word choice that relates to the Italian Cultural Society (or whatever) marker that someone (you?) found in the park, perhaps. Roughly where is the marker in relation?
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Jun 19, 2013 17:55
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Urban Smurf posted:CronoGamer, I am giving careful thought to this. I admit my reports seem twisted, but in my defense the author Byron Preiss has his role in creating a twisted puzzle. Take the "set in stone" idea with a grain of salt. It was an afterthought to begin with and a casque was found in Chicago without a need for the idea. I just felt it was worthwhile to point it out as a tactic that may be repeated in the other verses. It's true that nobody can know how tortured the logic of the remaining unsolved puzzles is. The problem is that if the puzzle logic is as tortured as you believe it to be, then the puzzle is for all intents and purposes unsolvable and you shouldn't waste your time looking for a solution. If the clues can all have "six degrees of separation" connections to the locations they are supposed to indicate, then the clues become useless. Seriously, play a game with yourself and choose a random clue from a random verse, and then a random park in America, and apply your method to try to connect them. You will succeed every single time if you allow yourself to say, "Edwin and Edwina named after him > Edwin Booth > John Wilkes Booth > Abraham Lincoln > Lincoln-Douglas debates > Stephen Douglas > Douglas MacArthur > MacArthur Park." Urban Smurf posted:I have a theory that I will continue to test that each first line of each verse has a dual purpose. If you continue to try to validate this theory as more puzzles are solved, you will inevitably prove it to be correct because your theory is unfalsifiable. You could develop a theory that says every line of each verse has a triple meaning, and if you worked hard enough you'd find some validation for it. Deteriorata posted:Dumb ideas will die on their own. No, they won't. Honestly, I think a thread in a message board is probably just a really terrible way to organize an effort like this. I'm fine with throwing every idea we've got at these puzzles, but it can be a drag to have to wade through page after page of A Beautiful Mind-style delusion to try to find posts by the people working with methods that sound more plausible. I don't think these meta-discussions of puzzle-solving techniques are counter-productive. I think brainstorming is fine, but I also think even brainstorming will be more productive if more people have spent time thinking about what methods are likely to lead to a solution to one of these puzzles.
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Jun 19, 2013 17:56
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edit: I'm stupid. But I still want to suggest that we come up with a set of rules for posting in this thread.
LargeHadron fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 18:02
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bonestructure posted:Cask 2 - Charleston, SC This is super-exciting and I really like this theory now. Almost every major element in both the verse and the picture is accounted for in at least some way. I can't wait to see the results, even if it's wrong, because this shows some drat fine teamwork. Edit: Also, that geodetic marker could easily be the circles in the fairy's wings. And I don't know if it would have been this way when the treasure was buried, if it was from oxidation, or exactly what, but the bluish color around it is a pretty drat good match to the aura around the fairy. TotalHell fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 18:06
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LargeHadron posted:edit: I'm stupid. But I still want to suggest that we come up with a set of rules for posting in this thread. Okay here's the rule: Smurph gets ONE (1) crazy theory to post per day. I don't want to have to scroll past too many walls of text.
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Jun 19, 2013 18:08
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LargeHadron posted:edit: I'm stupid. But I still want to suggest that we come up with a set of rules for posting in this thread. You mean other than the ones at the beginning of the first post?
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Jun 19, 2013 18:09
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Urban Smurf posted:There is a huge rock (technically a glacial erratic) with a plaque on it in the middle of a field near the top of a grassland prairie. It's remote and leaves few options else to consider. It's called Robert's Rock, in honor of the man who established a guide to parliamentary procedure, Robert's Rules of Order. The plaque is dedicated by the Daughters of the American Revolution. After doing some digging, I discovered the fact that Washington State is the origin of the first chapter of the DotAR. Sure, it isn't some simple words at the entrance to FOY, but it is a fact found alternative. http://goo.gl/maps/ch4yq KennyMan666 posted:I had a silly dream about this treasure hunt again last night. BJG posted:(But there's no point asking Palencar for info; he's not saying.) jassi007 posted:Maybe a path on a park map would also be an exception. Like the kind they have in those little boxes at the park or whatever. I am also real skeptical of those "Indiana Jones" solves where when the sun strikes this thing on the 12 day of the 9th month at the 3rd hour" all will be revealed! CronoGamer posted:you're just playing numerology games with these puzzles I imported a 3d model of the Statue of Liberty's head in its correct orientation, elevation, and geolocation into Trimble Sketchup, and the shadow of her nose matches the woman from the Cask 12 painting exactly when you roll the clock back to [drumroll] 11:11AM on Nobember 11, 1981. As other photos have shown, that's far from the only time it matches, but I thought it was a neat coincidence. I guess we can assume that if Preiss took reference pictures on the same visits to each city as when he buried the casks, and he buried them in the winter, he was running around New York City taking tourist-y photos of landmarks late morning or mid-afternoon.
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Jun 19, 2013 18:16
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Ive read the posting rules and voiced my respect for them and been as supportive in my thoughts as possible with relatively few pictures and not six degrees of separation, but I understand the point being made. Im also refraining the best I can from defending attacks to my posts that have nothing of substance other than an opinion. I dont want to clog up the forums or judge peoples ideas in an unwarranted fashion. Im not here to complain. Im here to find answers. There will be alternative solutions. Theres no point in taking some presumptioms too seriously. Many things are unfalsifiable. Many negative opinions are flying. Its the mods job to sort out the ideas and the rules have been well put already. Stick with the bold caption of what cask youre talking about and let things fall into place. Enough trolling already. Please read thoughtfully, respond thoughtfully. Fistgrrl posted:Okay here's the rule: Smurph gets ONE (1) crazy theory to post per day. I don't want to have to scroll past too many walls of text. I will respect that. Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 18:19
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Toe the line bud, or your avatar will get transformed like you wouldn't believe. They do that here. 
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Jun 19, 2013 18:38
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BJG posted:Toe the line bud, or your avatar will get transformed like you wouldn't believe. They do that here. I'm sure someone is already contemplating it.
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Jun 19, 2013 18:43
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