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Cocoa Crispies posted:Airplanes don't fall out of the sky, they glide rather well, for miles and miles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider If you're using a 1960s/70s/80s vintage cockpit with steam gauges...but good luck with a glass cockpit. Didn't the 787 also do away with hydraulic/pneumatics in a lot of subsystems as well?
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Jun 8, 2013 04:34
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Personal opinion: Glass cockpits are dumb and are for pilots that cant be assed to pay attention at work. And they look like "the future" i suppose. (27 year old pilot: "Get off my lawn!")
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Jun 8, 2013 06:19
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Whoever guessed "battery swap," for the final Elon Musk announcement, you win. Tesla plans Model S battery swap as "fast refueling" option quote:Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk, in a Twitter post today, said the event would feature a “live pack swap” demonstration at 8 p.m. California time on June 20. “Seeing is believing.”
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Jun 18, 2013 20:16
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I'm cautiously excited. I was talking with a friend last week after I took him for a drive in my Leaf. He wants an EV, but it's the same old story - slow charging is great for most things, but you're never going to hit market until you can get it to people that don't need to change their lifestyles to accommodate. If Tesla can do the battery swap in a reasonable amount of time, and the service is offered with their new charging stations they're rolling out, it goes from a luxury toy to a serious contender right quick. A reasonable amount of time for a swap would hopefully be 15 minutes or under, or about 3x the normal fill up time of gasoline, I think. This has to come with a surcharge, right? It won't be free like the Supercharge stations I'd imagine.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:30
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Mortanis posted:He wants an EV, but it's the same old story - slow charging is great for most things, but you're never going to hit market until you can get it to people that don't need to change their lifestyles to accommodate. There's a large swath of people out there who's 99-95 percentile of driving is handled by the ranges of Nissan Leaf. The key is people don't have to change their lifestyles to use electric cars. I think electric car makers need to do a better job at educating people about that.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:50
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All electric cars need is a nice war in the Middle East to drive gas prices above $10 a gallon. More people asked me about the leaf in the last week when gas went above $4 then ever before. (Midwest refinery shutdown hell)
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Jun 18, 2013 21:09
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Coredump posted:There's a large swath of people out there who's 99-95 percentile of driving is handled by the ranges of Nissan Leaf. The key is people don't have to change their lifestyles to use electric cars. I think electric car makers need to do a better job at educating people about that. Oh yeah, I agree - I'm one of them. But that 1-5 percent gnaws at them until they convince themselves they NEED something that can handle 100% of all situations. I've already had that conversation too many times to count now, and it's frustrating. I decided that it wasn't worth the hassle of the price at the pump when I could get an EV for the same price as the Mazda I was looking at picking up, but I still have to account for the 1 day every two months I go immediately from work on up to another town north of me and have to pray the CHAdeMO isn't in use to do it or figure out how I'm going to do the 120 mile round trip to Seattle to pick up my family when they fly in for the holidays. Making your car purchase around your 1% use is pretty silly - which is what I'm trying to convince anyone of when they're talking EVs with me - but those edge-case scenarios will eventually crop up and have to be dealt with. If Tesla can remove the concern, there isn't even an argument any more with a lot of people. If there's a car that can "refuel" in about the same time as a ICE vehicle, get about the same distance as an ICE vehicle, with cheaper fuel costs and costs only slightly more, it's almost a non-argument at that point. Educating people that they can live perfectly fine with an EV now without a huge paradigm shift is great - I'm just excited to see a possible world where an EV is effectively analogous to an ICE in all ways so that any and all arguments become moot.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:25
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Mortanis posted:I'm cautiously excited. I was talking with a friend last week after I took him for a drive in my Leaf. He wants an EV, but it's the same old story - slow charging is great for most things, but you're never going to hit market until you can get it to people that don't need to change their lifestyles to accommodate. Musk has previously tweeted that "You can recharge a Model S faster than filling up a tank of gas" so I'm assuming the battery swap will be a few minutes or less.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:27
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My nissan dealer had a brilliant promotion that they just ended. Buy a leaf and get 10 rental car days/year. You show up, drop off your leaf, and pickup one of their used cars and take it for up to 10 days a year as a rental. It was almost enough to push me over the edge to get a leaf. I thought that was a great idea for getting people past that mental block with minimal additional cost. Ended up getting a Volt anyway. Even with less than half the EV range, in the last month I have only hit gas on road trips (of the 2 I have taken) and one especially busy weekend of errands (and even then only 10 miles on gas).
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Jun 18, 2013 21:33
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Gas eventually breaks down doesn't it? I wonder if that will be a problem for the plugin hybrids with a long range for some people. Go half a year without touching your gas reserves and will the fuel be reduced in quality? I know it's a problem for lawnmowers and such that sit idle during the winter and people recommend adding stabilizers to keep it from breaking down into 'varnish'.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:44
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Squibbles posted:Gas eventually breaks down doesn't it? I wonder if that will be a problem for the plugin hybrids with a long range for some people. Go half a year without touching your gas reserves and will the fuel be reduced in quality? I know it's a problem for lawnmowers and such that sit idle during the winter and people recommend adding stabilizers to keep it from breaking down into 'varnish'. The Volt recommends premium fuel for this reason. The Fusion Energi will cycle the engine at predetermined intervals to avoid this problem as well as to insure the engine is getting lubricated.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:47
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Suqit posted:The Volt recommends premium fuel for this reason. The Fusion Energi will cycle the engine at predetermined intervals to avoid this problem as well as to insure the engine is getting lubricated. Ahh cool, good to know!
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Jun 18, 2013 21:50
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Suqit posted:The Volt recommends premium fuel for this reason. The Fusion Energi will cycle the engine at predetermined intervals to avoid this problem as well as to insure the engine is getting lubricated. Premium doesn't actually last any longer than regular; it needs premium due to the design of the engine requiring greater knock-resistance in the fuel. Chevy mitigates it to an extent with a very tightly sealed fuel system, but even then I think if it goes near a year without refueling, it will start running the engine to empty the tank.
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Jun 18, 2013 21:58
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So was the battery swap capability built in to all Model S cars, or is that a new addition? I seems like the ability to quickly exchange batteries is something that needs to be designed for (think Apple vs other phones). Having them in one layer in the floor would certainly help, but I'd assume there is more to it than that.
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Jun 18, 2013 22:06
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mobby_6kl posted:So was the battery swap capability built in to all Model S cars, or is that a new addition? I seems like the ability to quickly exchange batteries is something that needs to be designed for (think Apple vs other phones). Having them in one layer in the floor would certainly help, but I'd assume there is more to it than that. Elon Musk posted:Battery pack swap works with all Tesla Model S cars, past and present. It was always there. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/347082201596321794
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Jun 18, 2013 22:15
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Oddly enough, I saw a Model S the other day - in Flagstaff, AZ. Either they had it trucked up there, or the long-range performance is especially impressive, even when making a ~5000 foot climb from Phoenix to Flagstaff on I17. Could probably go a pretty long way back down with a full battery thanks to regen, though!
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Jun 18, 2013 22:45
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mobby_6kl posted:So was the battery swap capability built in to all Model S cars, or is that a new addition? I seems like the ability to quickly exchange batteries is something that needs to be designed for (think Apple vs other phones). Having them in one layer in the floor would certainly help, but I'd assume there is more to it than that. The battery is the last major component added during manufacture, specifically so it can be easily removed.
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Jun 19, 2013 02:42
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Mortanis posted:If Tesla can do the battery swap in a reasonable amount of time, and the service is offered with their new charging stations they're rolling out, it goes from a luxury toy to a serious contender right quick. A reasonable amount of time for a swap would hopefully be 15 minutes or under, or about 3x the normal fill up time of gasoline, I think.
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Jun 19, 2013 03:29
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IOwnCalculus posted:Chevy mitigates it to an extent with a very tightly sealed fuel system, but even then I think if it goes near a year without refueling, it will start running the engine to empty the tank. From a friend of mine: quote:Finally made it. Went two months without using any gasoline. 
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Jun 19, 2013 06:32
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Volt, all the inconvenience of an electric and gas automobile. Would be an awesome all electric or Prius type hybrid but instead it is a weird electric with a built in generator. GM you got it wrong change it!
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Jun 19, 2013 15:35
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What really makes me sad is the fact that Better Place got the whole ev refill problem solved, it just didn't catch on. Now the company is going under. I wonder if Model S supercharger stations will someday have automated battery swap stations as well.
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Jun 19, 2013 15:42
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Coredump posted:What really makes me sad is the fact that Better Place got the whole ev refill problem solved, it just didn't catch on. Now the company is going under. I wonder if Model S supercharger stations will someday have automated battery swap stations as well. They didn't appear to have a business model, just a blog post or two worth of ideas and lots of people who thought it was a good idea. Electric Vehicles are kind of at the stage where idiots and assholes just say it a lot and look for investment. Elephanthead posted:Volt, all the inconvenience of an electric and gas automobile. Would be an awesome all electric or Prius type hybrid but instead it is a weird electric with a built in generator. GM you got it wrong change it! Ahaha, link the Jalopnik comment you copied this from.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:44
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Cocoa Crispies posted:From a friend of mine: Okay, so it starts in on it sooner than I thought - but that's a really smart way of doing it IMO. The fact that they let you delay it up to 24 hours should ideally give you enough notice to not bother plugging the car in for a bit... after all, if you have to run the engine, why not get some benefit from it?
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Jun 19, 2013 17:26
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roomforthetuna posted:If that didn't have a surcharge (or only a small one) I would really be tempted by a Tesla, because my biggest objection to, well, all the EVs, is that the batteries are insanely expensive and batteries generally don't survive well in a hot climate. If I could just be swapping them out for new ones every few thousand miles, bam, no more objection. I'm curious what my batteries are going to be like in a couple years given that I'm in south Texas and a month of 100+ days is normal. One year on it seems fine, but I do hope I hit 75% before the warranty is up so I can get a free swap.
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Jun 19, 2013 17:30
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Imagine you're driving from Boston to Miami in your Model S. You file your trip with Tesla and they recommend a few SuperChargers to get you there. Alas, there's no charger available right where you need one, maybe in the middle of Virginia or someplace. No problem, Tesla will monitor your vehicle remotely and dispatch a Tesla Rapid Response truck to your anticipated highway location, or a convenient rest stop. You pull in, the TRR crew swaps your battery in 5 minutes, you drive away. All for only $29 per assist.
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Jun 19, 2013 18:03
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Test drove a Leaf today. I really wasn't expectiong it to be that drat quiet! I think it's now at the top of our list for a new car. Only problem is, we don't have a local dealer. Dammit. I really hope it wouldn't need much warranty work...
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Jun 20, 2013 05:18
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netwerk23 posted:Imagine you're driving from Boston to Miami in your Model S. You file your trip with Tesla and they recommend a few SuperChargers to get you there. Alas, there's no charger available right where you need one, maybe in the middle of Virginia or someplace. No problem, Tesla will monitor your vehicle remotely and dispatch a Tesla Rapid Response truck to your anticipated highway location, or a convenient rest stop. You pull in, the TRR crew swaps your battery in 5 minutes, you drive away. All for only $29 per assist.  This is drat cool. I hope Tesla manages to stay in business while providing all of this support.
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Jun 20, 2013 07:52
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The Locator posted:
It would be cool, but I just made it up. It's an idea that wouldn't be that hard for them though, everything they would need is already available to them.
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Jun 20, 2013 14:56
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The Locator posted:
I think Tesla will do just fine. They're providing "free fuel" and a more thorough support network but due to the fundamentally different nature of the product they're selling they're avoiding a lot of costs that other manufacturers incur in supporting their products: 1) Their drive train is ridiculously simpler. Battery + motor. No fueling system, no expensive to warranty direct injection, no valve train, no mechanical combustion engine, no exhaust system, no emissions system, no transmission, no active water cooling, no active oil circulation, etc. A simpler drive train means fewer points of failure, and less expensive warrantied repairs when something does fail. 2) They've taken advantage of the move toward digital instrumentation and actuation lightyears beyond other auto mfgrs. The Model S can phone home wirelessly and can receive firmware updates wirelessly. This reduces the diagnostic costs across the board, and in many cases reduces the repair costs when it is a software problem. Instead of having to maintain a redundant network of diagnostic and repair facilities, they have one centralized diagnostic facility and can repair many problems out of one centralized repair facility. 3) If producing a 40kwh Model S was profitable, they're doing well on Model S sales as people are taking up the upgrade options to 60 and 85kwh in droves. These upgrades have significantly higher prices but I think it's highly unlikely that the increase in cost of materials and labor is commensurate with the increased prices, which means more margin for Tesla on each unit sold. Maybe they hosed up big time paying off the Fed loan in its entirety early, but more likely they've got a lot of money to spend right now, and the intelligent move is to spend it on increasing consumer adoption.
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Jun 20, 2013 15:07
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Maybe they hosed up big time paying off the Fed loan in its entirety early, but more likely they've got a lot of money to spend right now, and the intelligent move is to spend it on increasing consumer adoption.
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Jun 20, 2013 15:39
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Maybe they hosed up big time paying off the Fed loan in its entirety early, but more likely they've got a lot of money to spend right now, and the intelligent move is to spend it on increasing consumer adoption. To be fair, they transferred the debt to another firm (Goldman or someone) who paid off the government in turn, so they still owe someone money if I recall correctly, just not the government. Good PR though.
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Jun 20, 2013 22:42
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Head's up- the new NEC is going to require dedicated circuits and outlets for EV car chargers. Apparently it's causing too many overloaded circuits and NFPA is worried about the fire hazard.
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Jun 21, 2013 00:12
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netwerk23 posted:Imagine you're driving from Boston to Miami in your Model S. You file your trip with Tesla and they recommend a few SuperChargers to get you there. Alas, there's no charger available right where you need one, maybe in the middle of Virginia or someplace. No problem, Tesla will monitor your vehicle remotely and dispatch a Tesla Rapid Response truck to your anticipated highway location, or a convenient rest stop. You pull in, the TRR crew swaps your battery in 5 minutes, you drive away. All for only $29 per assist. How long has it been since the last time you called AAA?  AAA's entire business revolves around recovering stranded cars by either providing a little gas, jump starting a battery (both easy) or towing and I know trying to convince AAA to tow a vehicle can take hours. I would be very impressed if Tesla could provide a decent nationwide rapid response team. As for interchangeable batteries, I think that is an awesome idea, the only lovely part is it will be proprietary to Tesla. I think swapping batteries is kinda the way to go in the future, it would also help get consumers over battery life fears, and I would imagine that older batteries could be recycled or reconditioned a lot better than just letting them rot in the cars/landfills. Besides slow adoption, would there soon be a black market for batteries? Crackheads will steal anything, and lithium kinda sounds like a valuable metal. grover posted:Head's up- the new NEC is going to require dedicated circuits and outlets for EV car chargers. Apparently it's causing too many overloaded circuits and NFPA is worried about the fire hazard. I wonder how much of that is caused by turn of the century houses where the only insulation left on the wires is the rat droppings. . . EDIT - will this require you to refit your house or is it just for new construction? Not Wolverine fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 00:14
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grover posted:Head's up- the new NEC is going to require dedicated circuits and outlets for EV car chargers. Apparently it's causing too many overloaded circuits and NFPA is worried about the fire hazard. Is this just for 240V charging or are people managing to gently caress it up even on 120V circuits?
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Jun 21, 2013 00:29
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Another new and interesting development, which will possibly help out on the price of a used Leaf: Nissan will sell you a replacement / upgraded battery for $100/mo. Given that at least locally I can buy a used 2011 Leaf at a dealer advertising it at $17k, it sure makes it a bit more tempting when you won't have to eat a $8k lump sum to replace the battery, and you get a warranty with the new one too.
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Jun 21, 2013 01:04
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IOwnCalculus posted:Is this just for 240V charging or are people managing to gently caress it up even on 120V circuits? May end up being like an over-the-range microwave with that respect: Set it on the counter and you can just plug it in, but mount it over your stove and it's required to have a dedicated circuit. Colonel Sanders posted:I wonder how much of that is caused by turn of the century houses where the only insulation left on the wires is the rat droppings. . . grover fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 01:11
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Do people really have more than their car on a circuit? If I have a 50A circuit with a single outlet feeding a charger, would that not meet the new NEC?
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Jun 21, 2013 03:41
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Advent Horizon posted:Do people really have more than their car on a circuit? If I have a 50A circuit with a single outlet feeding a charger, would that not meet the new NEC? Not too many have an existing 50A circuit in their garage to tap off. I think the issue is more of people plugging a "slow" (1800W) charger into a 15A 120V circuit that already has half the house on it.
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Jun 21, 2013 10:47
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Tesla had their battery swap demonstration last night. Automated, takes about 90 seconds. https://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap
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Jun 21, 2013 12:01
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Tyro posted:Tesla had their battery swap demonstration last night. Automated, takes about 90 seconds. I was real impressed by this, because it solves a couple problems: 1) The Model S legitimately competes with a gasoline car for long trips, provided you can hit supercharger stations along the way. 20 minutes to refuel isn't terrible, but 90 seconds is great. Right on par with gas. You could argue that you can still ding Tesla for availability of supercharger stations, but that's infrastructure and gas has 100 years head start. 2) This changes the long term cost of ownership equation markedly. If you know anyone with a hybrid/electric, one of the major costs of long term ownership is replacing the battery packs, and a significant portion of the cost of doing that is the labor involved. There's no labor cost here, just materials and transport. Also, it's not like you need to make an appointment with a service center to get your packs swapped. You just drive up and swap.
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Jun 21, 2013 13:27
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