|
grover posted:I haven't seen the exact wording of the new code yet, so I can't say, but I'm pretty sure that will meet it. Not sure about a 2nd car. It still surprises me that garages have not had code specify that they must fall on their own circuit. My house built in 07 has a shared circuit (one outlet in unfinished basement and one in the front of the garage). GFCI was cheap as hell in the garage and storms would trip it, causing my freezer in the basement to turn off. I can also think of a friends house that had an outlet shared with a spare bedroom that depending on what fridge, freezer, or bedroom AC unit tripped at the same time would always blow the fuse for that part. New houses need to start running high amp lines to garage as standard just how they all make rooms with dryer connections or ovens. Make the electric car owners happy and all the car guys happy that now have a garage circuit to handle even dual stage compressors 
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 14:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 13:32 |
|
|
Edit: ^^ You need to also specify that we need 240V. Gotta have power for that welder.grover posted:I haven't seen the exact wording of the new code yet, so I can't say, but I'm pretty sure that will meet it. Not sure about a 2nd car. I hadn't thought of either point, that makes sense. I guess I keep forgetting that some people (in this thread, even!) already have more than one electric car. You should have seen the daisy-chained outlets in our old apartment. The entire place had only 6 outlets. Does anyone here notice if a Leaf puts off any heat while it's charging? Advent Horizon fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jun 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 14:23
|
|
|
I had my utility install separate 200 amp service to my garage. My 2012 leaf only draws 20 amps though. I am ready for a fleet of 4 EVs though. The leaf puts out a little, but a Volt will heat your garage up good as it cools the battery.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 15:19
|
|
|
I watched the Tesla vide, pretty neat. Certainly not a shock to the market, I wonder if they licensed the Better Place patents, or just waited until they imploded and bought them outright. Elon didn't explicitly mention price, but I noticed this: I wonder if that price was engineered or a coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 15:29
|
|
|
netwerk23 posted:I watched the Tesla vide, pretty neat. Certainly not a shock to the market, I wonder if they licensed the Better Place patents, or just waited until they imploded and bought them outright. Elon didn't explicitly mention price, but I noticed this: Even at $100 per swap, that puts the Tesla on the radar for people like me (but that make more money than I do) who do not fall in the 95% demographic where a Leaf type car is feasible due to commute distance. As pointed out on the last page, it removes the 'battery replacement' issue from the cost of ownership. One potential issue I see - there are multiple sizes of battery available for the Model S - presumably they've considered that, and the swap stations will detect and replace with the same size. Now, to get one of these stations in the Phoenix area, and get myself a gigantic pay raise so I can afford an S!
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 15:56
|
|
|
The Locator posted:Even at $100 per swap, that puts the Tesla on the radar for people like me (but that make more money than I do) who do not fall in the 95% demographic where a Leaf type car is feasible due to commute distance. As pointed out on the last page, it removes the 'battery replacement' issue from the cost of ownership. If you don't pick up your original battery from the first station you swapped at you are charged the difference if you end up keeping a newer pack. They will also transport your original pack to a location for you to re-swap for some fee. It certainly isn't going to be a free battery replacement service. You shouldn't need that anyways since if something is wrong with your battery they replace it 100% under warranty.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 16:33
|
|
|
My garage has a single 120v outlet. It shares the circuit with my living room, though it doesn't even share a wall with it. I'm still trying to figure out how that got wired. It's been a nightmare charging my Leaf. Thankfully I don't use my living room for entertainment and have all my energy-sucking devices in a side room, or I'd be pretty screwed. Tesla's demonstration is pretty amazing, and if it's comparable to the price of a tank of gas, it's a pretty sweet deal for cross country trips. Guess it's time to start saving up the 6 digits I need for one when my Leaf lease is up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 16:34
|
|
|
The Locator posted:Now, to get one of these stations in the Phoenix area, and get myself a gigantic pay raise so I can afford an S! This, or hopefully that baby-Tesla shows up sooner than later. Hell, I don't even care if it has battery swap capability if it can do an honest 100 miles instead of "80 if you cruise at 60mph with HVAC off". That said,  to Tesla. They're clearly devoted to providing an infrastructure answer to every fault people try to find with the idea of an electric car, and I think it will pay off for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:This, or hopefully that baby-Tesla shows up sooner than later. Hell, I don't even care if it has battery swap capability if it can do an honest 100 miles instead of "80 if you cruise at 60mph with HVAC off". My round-trip commute with lunch is 110-115 miles per day, in the Phoenix heat. I really need 180'ish mile range to be reasonably comfortable considering electric (so I can actually do something other than straight home after work if I want to also).
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 02:30
|
|
|
Tesla would have to be IDIOTS to market a swap at 100 bucks. That single technology alone would erase the main concern/gripe about EV charge time entirely, which, if I understand correctly, is the point that most people cite as their reason for not having any 'real' interest in an electric vehicle. Tesla, as a company, continues to blow me away with their innovations. Wicaeed fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jun 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 05:51
|
|
|
The Locator posted:My round-trip commute with lunch is 110-115 miles per day, in the Phoenix heat. I really need 180'ish mile range to be reasonably comfortable considering electric (so I can actually do something other than straight home after work if I want to also). I'm about 50 miles round trip, but factor in errands, heavy HVAC usage, and battery degradation - especially on the Leaf - and that 80-odd mile range starts looking really tight, especially once the car is two or three years old. Wicaeed posted:Tesla would have to be IDIOTS to market a swap at 100 bucks. Why? Do you mean too expensive, or too cheap? I think it's a pretty fair price point (maybe slightly high but not too much so), especially when you consider that it's being presented as a means for people to drastically expedite their charge process versus the supercharger station immediately adjacent. Even if you think it's too high, you spend 99% of your time driving at a cost per mile drastically below that of a gas car (ignoring the cost of the car, or assuming you cross-shop the Model S against a S-Class / 7er like Tesla wants you to) and then on those 1% of trips where you need to fill up on your way and you just can't spend 20 minutes doing it, your cost for the trip increases to approximately gasoline level.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
$100 for 200-300 miles is considerably above gasoline level. I drive one of the least aerodynamic vehicles in history (Wrangler) that gets worse mileage than most of whats out there, and it's about $60 for 350 miles. If your long trip is uncommon enough, it'll balance out in the big picture. But it's nowhere near "gasoline level" unless your other car is an '88 Countach.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
Godholio posted:$100 for 200-300 miles is considerably above gasoline level. I drive one of the least aerodynamic vehicles in history (Wrangler) that gets worse mileage than most of whats out there, and it's about $60 for 350 miles. If your long trip is uncommon enough, it'll balance out in the big picture. But it's nowhere near "gasoline level" unless your other car is an '88 Countach.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 16:14
|
|
|
Beside finding the fastest pump, apparently they also found the most expensive one (at least, I thought gas was a bit cheaper than that in the US) as well as a car with biggest tank, not to mention one that could have at least double, if not triple, the range on that tank. A free supercharge in 30 minutes after hours of driving also sounds like a better deal to me, but then I'm too poor for a Model S so that don't matter. Anyway, I certainly don't mean to poo poo on this, the swap was extremely impressive and I can think of many scenarios where it would be preferable to a slow charge. I'm also curious how things are going to develop when Tesla and other companies start to sell a whole bunch of different, and mostly incompatible models.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 16:15
|
|
|
grover posted:They put over 22 gallons of gas into an Audi for that demo. Why didn't they do that demonstration with a car more people are likely to be cross-shopping an EV against, like a prius? Or at a station that charged less than $4.50/gallon? Well, aside from the fact that it would have been done in less than half the time and a third the cost. They're not marketing the Model S at the Prius set, they're marketing it at the S-klasse and luxury crossover set; this is also why a Model S starts at $60k and not $24k. $4.50/gallon is because they're in California.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
Any suggestions on a Nissan dealer in the NW Washington area? I think we're going to go with the Leaf and do it at about the beginning of October. The ferry leaves from Bellingham, and there's a Nissan dealer just 5 miles from the terminal, but I can't find any reviews for them anywhere. Anyone ever bought a vehicle from a dealer a long way away? I don't want to get jerked around after I've spent the money to get there. I could theoretically go with any of the Seattle area dealers since there's a decent public charging network.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 22:11
|
|
|
I got my Leaf from the Nissan dealer in Bellingham (Wilson Nissan). They have two "Leaf Experts" on staff, but it's hit or miss if they're around to answer questions - the guy I got knew less than I did after a few hours of just Googling around, but no worse than any other car salesman that hasn't torn apart every vehicle on their lot themselves I'd say. He knew the important stuff, but that was about it. They also tried to jerk me around on the lease numbers, but again, no more than any other dealership. I've run into that before. Specifically, I told them I wasn't willing to pay more than 260 a month after a 2k downpayment on the SV Leaf with the package I wanted. They called me the next day and said "We got it within a couple of dollars, why don't you come in to sign". When I got in the next day, the number they quoted me was 350$ a month with 3k down. Once I laughed and started to walk, they told me their "finance girl" didn't know how to use the software and they could do better. I wound up with 263 with 3k down. The numbers dance is a common dealer trick though so I didn't knock them for it. Otherwise, I'm about 6 weeks out from Leasing from them without issues. They messed up setting up my Carwings because they typoed my email address, but fixed it in short order. They were pretty accommodating for me - I live about 30 minutes south, and they actually drove my old car back down to me after signing the lease without any problems, after business hours on a week day. If you have any specific questions, let me know. Edit: I should clarify, the guy I got wasn't one of the two "Leaf Experts". I got a new guy that had just started the month before. Mortanis fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jun 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
That's the kind of junk I'd like to avoid. I don't have the time to go back and forth for a few days after showing up - I need to be able to get in and go. I don't need to test drive, I don't plan to lease - I just want to buy a goddamn car! Please, Tesla, get the drat dealership laws changed. Did you do any back and forth over email? Honestly, I'd prefer to have everything signed before I even arrive but I don't trust a dealer to give me the same thing I signed for remotely. What are the odds of needing to go to a Nissan dealership for any reason after taking delivery? I won't have any available to me so anything that needs doing must be done independently This is our first new car and our first electric so this whole process is scaring the crap out of both of us..
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 00:13
|
|
|
You can't sign the paperwork for the car without being in person unfortunately, and that takes a while. Once you take ownership of the car, the only reason you'll need to go to the dealership is for the routine maintenance to keep up your warranty. If you aren't driving a lot, you can use the lesser wear and tear version of the maintenance (there's two versions, one that's more aggressive that makes you do more like rotating tires and checking batteries and the like), but you still have to have things checked every 6 months or so to stay in warranty - and that's got to be done at a Nissan dealer (doesn't have to be the one you got the car at). But that's the same for any new car - Nissan isn't unique there, and your maintenance is less on the Leaf than a normal car as you aren't doing oil changes every 2000 miles or some absurdly low number to stay in warranty.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
How long it takes also depends on how much you want to haggle. I went to a take-it-or-leave-it dealership and spent the first day signing paperwork, then came back a few days later after it all cleared to take the car home.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
To get to a Nissan dealership the car would have to be on a boat for two and a half days each way. That ain't happening for routine anything. How long does it actually take to get in, sign the paperwork and get out if everything is agreed in advance? I'd love to fly in the morning of October 11 and get onto the 6pm ferry that night. Why can't I sign with a notary present and fax or FedEx the paperwork?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 00:40
|
|
|
It is absolutely possible to deal with dealers remotely - my dad bought his Corvette from a dealer he has never actually set foot in (many many states away), though in that case they just popped the order into the system and had it delivered to a dealer near home. I'm thinking he had to have stuff notarized but I can't recall for the life of me since I had nothing to do with that process. I'll hit him up and ask.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 00:54
|
|
|
Well, you might be able to sign like that honestly - you could always call Wilson and ask about your extenuating circumstances. I'm sure that's totally possible. If you ignore the time I spent actually having them crunch numbers after they highballed my Lease, the actual paperwork and handing over of the car took no more than 45 minutes. I signed a Lease so my papers might be a tad bit different, and the last time I actually bought a car was 2001 so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but there was some dozen documents I had to sign and initial, and I took the time to read them and ask questions and ensure the numbers totaled up correctly. Even counting the time I spent arguing with them, I spent no more than 4 hours total on lot with them, including the test drive. As far as maintenance, I don't know there. If you're not leasing the car, and you're financing to buy, I think you technically can skip all the maintenance stuff and lose the warranty - and just hope nothing goes wrong with the car. It's a nice security blanket if there's a problem, though. It's a newer technology, and you never know. It's not prone to issues - not any more than any other modern and computer controlled vehicle - but spending some time on mynissanleaf.com can show you what sort of thing can possibly go wrong that requires Nissan to come in and take over things. Problems are not more common than any other new car, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly wouldn't want the warranty to fall out from underneath me if I could help it at all. I don't know if you can defer basic maintenance (fluid checks, tire checks) to a local place, but one of the mandatory checks after at least 12 months is a Li-On battery pack check, which isn't something that's going to be possible at your random run of the mill place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 01:01
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:It is absolutely possible to deal with dealers remotely - my dad bought his Corvette from a dealer he has never actually set foot in (many many states away), though in that case they just popped the order into the system and had it delivered to a dealer near home. I'm thinking he had to have stuff notarized but I can't recall for the life of me since I had nothing to do with that process. I'll hit him up and ask. It doesn't even have to be a situation like that. The last three cars I've purchased have been extremely pain free. I do the research on the car I want, search until I find one that's available, and discuss over the phone with the dealership until we make a deal (it helps to deal with either salesman, or a dealership that is recommended by a real person who has dealt with them in the past) that I can live with. In one case I simply told them "I'll pay this price. If you can beat my financing at X% I'll go through you, otherwise I'll hand you a check.". In all three cases, once the deal was made, they had a lot-guy come to my house and pick me up, or drive my other car home for me (one dealer about 30 mile trip, the other about 8 miles), I did a walk-around and quick test drive to make sure the car was solid, signed all the paperwork, which was all prepared in advance, and was gone in 30-45 minutes. You must be extremely clear that if ANYTHING isn't exactly what you have agreed to, you'll walk. They want your money, so they'll do what they need to in order for you to give it to them. Note, that this will simply be impossible at some dealerships. Don't do business with those dealerships.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 03:20
|
|
|
Advent Horizon posted:Why can't I sign with a notary present and fax or FedEx the paperwork? Confirmed with my old man - in his case the dealer overnighted the paperwork to him, he signed it (doesn't remember if a notary was required), and overnighted it back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 17:06
|
|
|
At my dealership if you walked off the street with no contact with us prior and we have the car want in stock you could be walking out with a new car in about 2 hours. That is of course if you are up front about pricing and would prefer speed over getting the absoultely lowest price possible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 17:34
|
|
|
kill me now posted:At my dealership if you walked off the street with no contact with us prior and we have the car want in stock you could be walking out with a new car in about 2 hours. That is of course if you are up front about pricing and would prefer speed over getting the absoultely lowest price possible. Because I hear no dealership ever would resort to underhanded tactics like that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:Confirmed with my old man - in his case the dealer overnighted the paperwork to him, he signed it (doesn't remember if a notary was required), and overnighted it back. Hm. Wonder how well that would work for a sale 3 months out? Time to start calling. Wilson Motors has thus far not responded to two attempts at contact.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 20:25
|
|
|
grover posted:They put over 22 gallons of gas into an Audi for that demo. Why didn't they do that demonstration with a car more people are likely to be cross-shopping an EV against, like a prius? Or at a station that charged less than $4.50/gallon? Well, aside from the fact that it would have been done in less than half the time and a third the cost. It's already been posted, but they're not marketing their $60 - $120,000 sedan against the same shopper going for a $23k Prius. It's a luxury (or really near-luxury) vehicle. Do you think they'll market the Model X against Rav4 buyers? I think the "we found the fastest pump we could" was a silly joke, I doubt they went around with a stopwatch. It's probably the station closest to them. The video didn't feel very professional.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 20:46
|
|
|
roomforthetuna posted:How long would it take if the customer did want to negotiate price? Do you deliberately leave the buyer in an office while you go to "check with a manager" about a price negotiation for a ridiculously long time in order to weaken their resolve and increase their sunk costs of time, to make them more likely to just give up and pay whatever price you come back with? It entirely depends on the customer. Some people come in with extremely unrealistic pricing expectations and then will be fine sitting there for hours going back and forth with me trying to get every nickle and dime out of us. I wasn't saying you couldnt get a good price after a brief negotiaton process and be in and out quickly, but its going to be a reasonable price for both parties not the absolute lowest possible price. I don't personally leave people sitting for no reason (because I usually have better things to do like see other customers) Some dealerships salesmen are really just runners for the sales managers, at my dealership I know what we can do and if you come in saying you would like to be at a price that is realistic I'll make it happen and make it happen quickly. If you come in expecting $6k off a kia rio then you aren't going to leave happy when you find out that the best we can do is like $600 + a $500 rebate. I know people think that all car dealers are the devil (some are) but we are here to make money and sell a product (like any business). If you want to have a good experiance then go on a website like https://www.dealerrater.com and look up who you're buying from before you go down there. The ones that are assholes who try to gently caress you over will have lovely ratings and the ones who will make things easy for you and will have a 4.9 or 5.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2013 21:13
|
|
|
A motorcycle is kind of an EV, right? Slim Pickens posted:An electric motorcycle beat every other motorcycle up Pikes peak.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2013 22:38
|
|
|
Well I've decided we are officially living in the future now. I was on my way back from lunch and passed by a Nissan dealer. As I was thinking to myself "I should stop in and look at the Leaf sometime" I noticed an interesting looking car coming out of a parking lot across the street, as I passed by it I noticed it was a Tesla. A few seconds later I looked ahead and noticed I was following a Chevy Volt. All this within the course of about 20 seconds. Yeesh!
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 21:30
|
|
|
After I got my Volt I've started noticing a lot more electric cars on the roads. Most of them had new plates so I think whatever the car manufacturers are doing with discounts have made people buy more.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 21:41
|
|
|
I'm seriously considering a Chevy Spark EV when (if) GM makes it available in not-California. 400+ ft-lbs of torque. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2013 13:37
|
|
|
Argh. Yesterday was the ribbon cutting ceremony on the Tesla Supercharging station in my area. It is a tick over a mile from my house - and RIGHT on the drive to and from work for me. I love my Leaf, but it's maddening. Especially on the heels of the CHAdeMO 3 miles from my house breaking for the second time in 4 months. Generally I just use it when I'm in the area shopping, or when I need to jet somewhere right after work. It was fixed the day of when I needed a good 140 miles of driving use, so I lucked out there (no way I had the time to sit for 2+ hours on the 240v charger next to it), but after the long day of driving, I got home pretty late and the trickle charger didn't get me enough juice to get to work and back the next day. So I puttered over to the CHAdeMO again the next morning, making the choice to be late to work... And it was already broken. Less than 24 hours later. Thankfully yelling at it and resetting it got it back up and running without needing to call AeroVironment, but the breakdowns and slow repair times are all too common on the AV network as I look through Plugshare planning my drives. And now Tesla opens the charging station literally around the corner from my house, right on my daily commute path... and here I am with 34 months of my 36 month lease left.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 17:06
|
|
|
Sounds like it's time to develop a Supercharger->CHAdeMO adapter 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
Okay, planning my buying trip: I plan to buy a Leaf October 1 somewhere in the Seattle area. Not 100% on the dealer, but there are plenty to choose from. Younkers Nissan quoted me $7 under invoice and they're close to SeaTac, anybody here have experience with them? The online reviews are not exactly 100%... Anyways, I need to plan my drive to Bellingham. I'm going to take the Boeing tour and I plan to charge while doing so. From there to Bellingham is just under 70 miles on I-5. How feasible is that on one charge?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 20:27
|
|
|
If you specifically request your car be charged to 100% (not the normal 80%) for when you pick it up, yeah, that'd probably work, but I'd be mentally prepared to stop off somewhere, just in case. I can vouch that the charger in Burlington, 20 miles south of Bellingham, is functioning again as of Wednesday, so at the very least, you can make it there and DC Quick Charge for the last leg. Freeway driving REALLY saps your charge, though, and I haven't really pushed mine south at all to know how far I can go. Earlier this week I did Burlington > Anacortes > Burlington > Bellingham > Burlington with some driving around at each location (check Google Maps if you're interested, since it's in the area you're going through, total about 105 miles) and I needed to start with a 100% charged battery, drained down to 65%, charged to 90% after I got back to Burlington, and still got home on the "Low Battery Warning" with 2 bars remaining. That was with no AC and in Eco mode and some side roads to keep my speed down. I average 4.5 miles per kwh, which is about middle of the road to "decent", so I'm not a lead foot or anything draining things. I've gotten used to slow starts to get the most bang for my buck. There's also Magic Nissan in Everett. They have a DC Quick Charger there. Edit: You'll want to quickly get a feel for how to drive efficiently to make the trip in a single go, though. It's easy to suck the juice. Slow slow slow starts, trying not to stop for lights, Eco mode (helps only if you're not hyper-efficient), no AC/heat, keeping it right at the speed limit... Not doing the above will eat at your top mileage, which might not be an issue for day to day driving (I rarely worry about any of it for my work commute) but could shave 15% off your total miles, which would really hurt for a long trip like that. Mortanis fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 21:31
|
|
|
I'll be picking it up on the 1st and only making that Everett-Bellingham leg on the 4th to catch the 6pm ferry. I was hoping to do the first Boeing tour at 9am and use the charger there so I should be able to have 100% in Everett. But just looking at it, I'm not sure if I can skip Burlington or if I'll need to stop in. At least Aerovironment sent me a fob after I bitched about the process.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 13:32 |
|
|
70 miles is not a problem. Don't use cruise control and don't drive 70 mph. Nissan will tow you if you run out anyway. Make sure you know how to get it to charge to 100%.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2013 22:37
|
|