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BenRGamer posted:The Shin'Hare Warlock charge power looks really neat. How so? It seems the worst of the bunch to me, turning two creatures into one bigger creature with no abilities at sorcery speed doesn't sound that useful. I guess it could be okay in Limited, but I'd still much rather have the Necrotic Warrior if I I'm playing Blood.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:59
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Yeah, if it were instant speed it would be a cool combat trick, but as it is it seems like it has limited usefulness. I guess the idea is that you'll be playing that champion with a Shin'hare deck, generating bunnies, and combining them over and over again to make huge troops? This kind of depends on the abomination taking non-permanent attack/defense boosts into account (like what's provided by the Bucktooth Commander), or else it'll probably be too hard to use Battle Hoppers to make an Abomination that actually has attack power. If so, you could presumably also use it to make effects like Wild Growth (+4/+4 until EOT) permanent on the new creature. That would be cool.
Kairos fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 01:13
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The way it reads, it should take temporary stat modifiers into account. It says add the attack and defense values, not the base values. Also, nowhere does it say that they lose their card text. That's the kind of thing that's easy to do in a purely digital game, so I'd be surprised if creating the abomination blanks the cards.
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Jun 22, 2013 01:47
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Jonny Angel posted:I usually find that slow life-drainy decks in magic are poo poo (which is a shame cause I love the black/white color combo but Orzhov presses that needling stuff really hard), cause it always seems like there are better things to devote resources to than little incremental life drains, like removal and card advantage and poo poo that actually enhances your position. But I gotta say that the Necrotic lifedrain champions look pretty interesting. Having that as something that's passive, always available, and doesn't interfere with any of your other resources sounds great. If I don't have to dedicate a card in my deck/hand to a little 1/1 dude who I can tap to drain 1 life, having that in my deck actually seems like it might be worthwhile. Or hell, even making a dedicated life drain deck, since it'll always have some form of gas with these guys. While you don't have to dedicate a card to it, you're still giving up another potential champion to get that effect. Ignoring threshold requirements, compare using that ability to having the Draw a Card ability. If you assume that you don't go past, say 8 charges, what's better? Drawing 1 card, or draining your opponent for 4 life? That 20 in the corner of each champ is probably a starting life total, interesting to see what applications that can have there. Zurai posted:Also, nowhere does it say that they lose their card text. That's the kind of thing that's easy to do in a purely digital game, so I'd be surprised if creating the abomination blanks the cards. Doesn't say the opposite either, and it's possible that Abomination has its own card text, just like Vampire has flight.
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Jun 22, 2013 02:04
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The Abomination does have its own card text, that's why it's in white. Those cards have nice abilities, though. Curious as to what a Worker Bot is for such a low charge cost.
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Jun 22, 2013 02:55
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Worker Bots are just 1/1 artifact creatures that can't attack.
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Jun 22, 2013 02:57
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Yeah, they're meant to fuel artifacts that exhaust troops as a cost for their function, though in a pinch they can be chump blockers too.
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Jun 22, 2013 03:07
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The shin'hare warlock becomes significantly better if there's a card which gives you temporary control of an opposing troop.
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Jun 22, 2013 04:01
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Another use would be combining undercosted creatures with drawbacks into a beefy creature with no penalty.
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Jun 22, 2013 06:20
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I think one of the important questions is what will charge ramping look like, and which colors will be the best. Drawing a card for 6 is probably really good if you can also ramp charges or if there are artifacts that generate additional charges. Pinging one and draining one might be fairly solid in that it's pretty heap and we know that blood uses your life total. Bun'Jitsu seems like he might be OK if you can build around him. Using a battle hopper and an opponent's troop would be pretty solid in that it's a 2 part move to permanently steal a troop. That said, it seems like he would likely be too much work.
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Jun 22, 2013 09:20
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So far there are two cards that generate charge (besides resources): Shrine of Prosperity and Charge Bot. Shrine of Prosperity gives you an extra charge if the top card of your deck is a resource card, and Charge Bot gives you one charge when it comes into play. They're both artifacts, which of course meshes well with sapphire.
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Jun 22, 2013 09:26
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Have we seen that many undercosted troops with drawbacks to make Abominations enticing? Aside from attacking with a Blaze Elemental and then stapling it to one of your troops, I'm not sure I see any troops that naturally lend themselves to being Abominated. I don't think I've seen any "gain control of troop until end of turn" effects, although there'll surely be something down the road. That just leaves turning temporary ATK/DEF buffs into permanent ones for now, which certainly could be cool. There are so many cards that revolve around owning artifacts or exhausting troops/artifacts or sacrificing troops that I could see the Worker Bot champion fitting into a ton of different decks. Not so much -1/-0 rogue or the rogue who buries the top two cards of your opponent's deck, unless I'm missing something. I know there are a few cards that interact with your opponent's graveyard, but aren't most of those PvE anyway?
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Jun 22, 2013 18:56
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Something that just occurred to me, that I haven't heard the answer to: will booster packs have pvp cards (that presumably can be used in pve) only, or can boosters have pve cards too?
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Jun 22, 2013 19:00
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Pyrolocutus posted:Something that just occurred to me, that I haven't heard the answer to: will booster packs have pvp cards (that presumably can be used in pve) only, or can boosters have pve cards too? Boosters will be PvP only, unless they put PvE stuff in the chests or something. Including PvE cards would screw up booster drafts pretty badly.
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Jun 22, 2013 19:05
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For Champions, remember that these are Set 1 Champions. For reference, here are the Year 1 WoWTCG heroes: http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/#!/type=Hero&set=1 Here's the Year 5 WoWTCG heroes: http://wow.tcgbrowser.com/#!/type=Hero&set=5 Sorry I haven't been around. Vegas (WoWTCG North American Continental Champs) plus E3 in the last 10 days. I hope I can spend some time tomorrow answering questions.
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Jun 23, 2013 02:06
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opaopa13 posted:Boosters will be PvP only, unless they put PvE stuff in the chests or something. Including PvE cards would screw up booster drafts pretty badly. Should have remembered that pve cards would screw up booster drafts. Doh! Pve cards in the chests might be interesting, maybe just the same as "current" pve content as a gateway to get pvpers to pve.
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Jun 23, 2013 02:10
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PvE cards in boosters wouldn't screw up drafts. Draft and sealed deck tournaments don't have banned lists. There's no reason they couldn't allow PvE cards in draft tournaments. That isn't to say that boosters will have PvE cards in them, just that there's no reason to prevent it just for draft considerations.
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Jun 23, 2013 03:54
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Blinkman987 posted:For Champions, remember that these are Set 1 Champions. I'll be curious to see card pool, which I think will help us evaluate the non-obviously powerful abilities (card draw). Is the plan to release PvP champs annually or with each set? And following that up, are all the champs available to everyone in PvP or do you collect them like you would any other cards?
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Jun 23, 2013 03:57
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Zurai posted:PvE cards in boosters wouldn't screw up drafts. Draft and sealed deck tournaments don't have banned lists. There's no reason they couldn't allow PvE cards in draft tournaments. Well, the reason is that the PvE cards are PvE-only is because they're unbalanced.
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Jun 23, 2013 04:09
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Kairos posted:Well, the reason is that the PvE cards are PvE-only is because they're unbalanced. And the reason cards are banned in constructed formats is because they're unbalanced, too. Guess what? They're still not banned in limited formats. The "PvE card" tag is basically just a built-in ban list for standard format tournaments.
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Jun 23, 2013 04:31
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Zurai posted:And the reason cards are banned in constructed formats is because they're unbalanced, too. Guess what? They're still not banned in limited formats. The "PvE card" tag is basically just a built-in ban list for standard format tournaments. Regardless of balance people buying boosters for PvP wouldn't want to be jipped out of any usable cards Though I could see a possibility for PvE boosters
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Jun 23, 2013 04:39
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BenRGamer posted:Regardless of balance people buying boosters for PvP wouldn't want to be jipped out of any usable cards There's absolutely no way there won't be PVE boosters. Maybe not immediately, but eventually.
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Jun 23, 2013 05:10
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I think they've already said that PvE cards will come from PvE only.http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23180 posted:There are basically 2 sets of cards - PvE cards, which can only be earned through the single player game (and drop from raids), and PvP cards which can only be gotten through purchased booster packs. The number of cards in each set is roughly the same.
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Jun 23, 2013 05:41
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The more they keep talking up the PvE content, the more I can't wait to see just how difficult they've made this. Can't wait to bash my table over knife-edge losses to the AI. 
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Jun 23, 2013 07:05
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Will there really be that many true 'PvE cards'? I got the impression that while they'll exist, progression will be more about leveling champions and getting complementary equipment to make your PvP cards bonkers.
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Jun 23, 2013 07:13
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OBi posted:Will there really be that many true 'PvE cards'? I got the impression that while they'll exist, progression will be more about leveling champions and getting complementary equipment to make your PvP cards bonkers. There are 300+ of both PVE and PVP cards and equipment is only for PVE playing. There will be an "anything goes" format where you can PVP with everything, but it is not balanced around that. Bob James fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 07:27
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Blinkman987 posted:For Champions, remember that these are Set 1 Champions. As far as I can tell as a layman, the only difference between the Year 1 and Year 5 heroes is that the Year 1 heroes flip as part of the cost of their ability and the Year 5 heroes flip as part of the effect. I think your example is meaningless to anyone other than a WOWTCG player.
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Jun 23, 2013 09:27
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It's 350 cards in each 'set' of set 1. So 700 cards total plus all the equipments that can be found. The AI also has it's own pool of cards used during PvE content that players can not use. CZE has also said that future sets probably won't be this big. They just want the first set to really draw in a large crowd. Leveling champions and getting dropped equipments will be a part of PvE as well, yeah. Don't forget you can use all PvP and PvE cards, equipments, and champion abilities to make your PvE decks.
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Jun 23, 2013 09:34
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BenRGamer posted:jipped
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Jun 23, 2013 14:30
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http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/draftsim.php Data miner now has a draft function. Found it handy since I've never done draft, and I'll have to get used to that feeling that someone down the line is building an awesome deck with cards you pass up.
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Jun 23, 2013 14:44
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pumpinglemma posted:Just so you know, this is an ethnic slur. Ah, sorry, typing this all up on a vita at the moment so I try to type fewer words. Didn't know that was the case. On topic, official forums say Spirit Dance is gonna be a really powerful deck thinner, thoughts?
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Jun 23, 2013 14:57
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thiswayliesmadness posted:http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/draftsim.php Well ain't this fancy. Drafted a pretty solid Blue/Red Artifact deck that I think would have done well, fairly confident that the other imaginary people playing this were all fighting over the myriad of great Blood cards though.
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Jun 23, 2013 15:00
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I just gave it a whirl and it's pretty cool!  It seemed that it was cycling between random packs each time, instead of the same three packs. Either that or I have terrible short term memory.
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Jun 23, 2013 15:05
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Jedit posted:As far as I can tell as a layman, the only difference between the Year 1 and Year 5 heroes is that the Year 1 heroes flip as part of the cost of their ability and the Year 5 heroes flip as part of the effect. I think your example is meaningless to anyone other than a WOWTCG player. I think the point being made is that first year cards filled a lot of broad, "standard" TCG functions if you will, where as the more recent sets feature much more narrow and unique effects, and are more build-around powers; he's implying the HEX Champions charge powers will get a lot more interesting in future releases, I believe.
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Jun 23, 2013 15:22
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Blazing Zero posted:I just gave it a whirl and it's pretty cool! It simulates 8 players in the draft pool, so you only see each pack twice. It's not much more than a fun distraction right now since there's such a limited pool of cards known. For example, I was able to draft 3 Murders and saw at least 4 more that I could have taken, and drafted 5 Briar Legions with at least a couple more that I could have drafted. It is fun, though. I ended up with a wild/blood deck with lots of removal, some stacking creature shenanigans, some fliers, some life gain, and nothing costing more than 2 threshold or 4 resources. Zurai fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 18:51
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BenRGamer posted:Ah, sorry, typing this all up on a vita at the moment so I try to type fewer words. Didn't know that was the case. A decent comparison is the magic card Mirari's Wake, which was a central but not overbearing card in its format. Spirit Dance seems a lot weaker, though. For one thing, you kill off all your small utility dudes, which does make it more likely to draw big guys, but also reduces the overall creature density of your deck--your chance of drawing a resource or action, which do not benefit from Spirit Dance at all, both also go up. Compared to Mirari's Wake, the cost benefit is significantly lower--reducing by two instead of cutting in half--and it only effects troops. +2/-2 vs +1/+1 is mostly a wash. Overall, while I wouldn't be surprised if Spirit Dance saw play, I don't think it'll be a linchpin in any format-defining decks, and if it is played, deck thinning won't be the reason. e: It also doesn't affect the troops in your hand, which is unfortunate.
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Jun 23, 2013 21:07
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cheetah7071 posted:A decent comparison is the magic card Mirari's Wake, which was a central but not overbearing card in its format. Spirit Dance seems a lot weaker, though. For one thing, you kill off all your small utility dudes, which does make it more likely to draw big guys, but also reduces the overall creature density of your deck--your chance of drawing a resource or action, which do not benefit from Spirit Dance at all, both also go up. Compared to Mirari's Wake, the cost benefit is significantly lower--reducing by two instead of cutting in half--and it only effects troops. +2/-2 vs +1/+1 is mostly a wash. On the other hand, a deck made entirely out of resources, creatures with 2 toughness and spells with Escalation could be pretty useful if creatures reduced to 0 toughness in the deck go straight to the discard without needing to be drawn. When all you're drawing is Escalation and resources, and you have some chump blockers out before the spirit dance comes into play, you'd significantly increase your chances of getting the same Ragefires back and burning your opponent really hard. Granted, I'm an idiot at CCGs so I have no idea if it'd be workable, but it sounds reasonable in theory.
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Jun 23, 2013 21:41
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Doc Aquatic posted:On the other hand, a deck made entirely out of resources, creatures with 2 toughness and spells with Escalation could be pretty useful if creatures reduced to 0 toughness in the deck go straight to the discard without needing to be drawn. If your plan is to draw escalation spells over and over, wouldn't it be better to just play draw/filtering actions in the first place, and just out the middleman of Spirit Dance and 2-defense creatures?
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Jun 23, 2013 22:02
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cheetah7071 posted:If your plan is to draw escalation spells over and over, wouldn't it be better to just play draw/filtering actions in the first place, and just out the middleman of Spirit Dance and 2-defense creatures? Probably, yeah. It probably wouldn't be the most efficient way to get Escalation cards to recur, but it sounds goofyenough that I'll probably be making a gimmick deck just to give it a shot.
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Jun 23, 2013 22:35
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Doc Aquatic posted:if creatures reduced to 0 toughness in the deck go straight to the discard without needing to be drawn. I think that's a very poor and unsafe assumption. There are numerous ways to increase the toughness of creatures as or even before they come into play.
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Jun 23, 2013 23:18
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