Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

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Guy DeBorgore: Apr 6, 1994; Catnip is the opiate of the masses; Soiled Meat

Helsing posted:

So yeah, I want a more ideologically pure party - a sort of left wing bizaro version of the Reform party - that is more focused on shifting the political axis of the country and less concerned about ensuring all its candidates get elected. As long as policy is visibly shifting to the left, we should not give a drat which party formally holds the reigns of government.

It's a nice idea, but (as I think you realize) expecting the NDP leadership to behave this way is rather like expecting water to flow uphill. They got there because they're extremely committed to the party, not to any broader social movement. Their success is measured on the votes the party accumulates, not by ideological purity. They fear a return to the dark old days of getting 20% of the popular vote and 5% of the seats. It's easy to criticize them for this, but I'd rather focus on why they behave that way.

It would help if they had some chance of forming a coalition government. That would create an institutional incentive to go out and claim the leftwing base, and this potential leftwing party could then play a role in government. Proportional representation would also help a great deal.

I don't know much about the sordid story of the Reform party but I do know that they're not around anymore, and that the Conservatives had to sacrifice some of their more extreme values to get into office.

edit: none of this was meant to convince anyone to vote for the NDP, by the way.

# ? Jun 22, 2013 22:24

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 15:32

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

Is the left minded voter base more apathetic towards politics? It always seems that the right has much better luck getting voters out and in the polls.

Is it just defeatism(Whelp can't change it so might as well not vote) or 420(everyone else will vote, so I'm not needed) or what?

How would the NDP go about getting people to get out to the poles?

# ? Jun 22, 2013 22:47

Binary Logic: Dec 28, 2000; Fun Shoe

Helsing posted:

Oh yes, the Rosedale Club, Paikin's cute vanity project where suits and ties are mandatory and scotch and cigars are provided to all. They made headlines recently when they decided to host a get together featuring Ernie Eves and Jonathan Kay for "a conversation on aboriginal issues". Inexplicably some overly sensistive people thought it was unseemingly for a bunch of rich white boys play acting like they are young Don Drapers to host an elitist luncheon on native issues that had no native individuals either speaking or attending.

Paikin's response to the accusations that his get together was an offensive display of white privielge? I wish I was making this up:

quote:
�We thought it was a funny name,� Paikin explains. �It�s meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Number one, it doesn�t actually meet in Rosedale (which is what�s funny), and number two is that the three co-founders of the club are Jewish, and obviously the Rosedale Club sounds like something that, back in the 1930s or 40s or 50s, Jews in Toronto would not be allowed to attend. And to celebrate Canada�s diversity and the rights that every single group in Canada has now, we decided to call it that to basically say we�ve arrived. It�s meant to be funny.�

On the one hand, it�s fascinating and almost endearing to see a person enact an imagined ideal of an experience his grandparents were denied. On the other hand, well, one would hope that the oppressed would aspire to something greater than to one day mimic their oppressor. If there�s a line past which reclamation turns into a full-on embrace, the Rosedale Club would appear to have crossed it.

"Don't talk to me about white privilege bro, I'm genetically middle eastern!"

I seriously didn't think they'd find a candidate more odious than Smitherman, but Paikin would qualify.

Trivia note: there was a much better way to do an ironic name. An indie bookstore on Church Street that also hosted/promoted many underground poets and writers went by the name of

# ? Jun 23, 2013 01:14

Mrs. Wynand: Nov 23, 2002; DLT 4EVA

Helsing posted:

So yeah, I want a more ideologically pure party - a sort of left wing bizaro version of the Reform party - that is more focused on shifting the political axis of the country and less concerned about ensuring all its candidates get elected.

Some would argue (actual NDP full-timers first and foremost, for all the reasons you stated), that it is not the political party's job to do ideological shifting. Which is of course beside the point because the actual goals of the NDP are what they are, regardless of what they ought to be. It is unlikely party leadership would change their mind about this unless pushed by the general membership, and it's unlikely the general membership would bother without the support of party leadership...

Having said all that, I do think that there is a dire need for some sort of organization whose job is the shifting of the political axis without being especially concerned about elections. In fact, I think the left in general, on a global scale, desperately needs this organization to exist. Unfortunately, not only are such organizations in short supply, but as far as I can tell, there isn't much clamoring for them either within various lefty groups. So either the cold reality of it is that I am being far too optimistic about what such an organization could achieve (not at all unlikely), or this is simply a symptom of a post-Reagan bloodied and fragmented left.

---

I'm also quite curious about just how receptive the general public is to a leftward shift. My own impression (like yours) is that there is probably a great deal of potential support, but boy would I love to be validated by some actual data on this. I can't help but feel quite far removed culturally from all sorts of groups outside my obvious cohorts. What's up with all the conservative support in the interior mining towns for example, shouldn't most of them be city dwellers having moved up for work?

I'm even more curious about the exact basis of neoliberal acceptance and conservative support across the board. How much of it is simply uninformed acceptance of the status-quo? How strongly held is that acceptance? How many people actually believe that tax-cuts -> better economy? How many do so because of a (real or perceived) understanding of mainstream economic theory? How many people are simply opposed to an idea because they are associated with some group they despise?

This would all be very useful information to have for the purpose of guessing how effective a non-partisan lefty PR organisation may or may not be.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 01:25

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 208 days!

I do know that the meme "I like the NDP, but they just aren't responsible with money" is something I've been hearing since I was born. Basically, the idea that deficits and government debt are the only potential problems with economic policy, applied to the Canadian context.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 06:41

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

quote:

Trivia note: there was a much better way to do an ironic name. An indie bookstore on Church Street that also hosted/promoted many underground poets and writers went by the name of

Church and *Wellesley*, across from the Second Cup immortalized by Kids In The Hall. (Well ok across from a snooty Euro grocery.)

Also they had an amazing baseball section.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 13:59

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

We replaced Andrew Coyne with a progressive. Let's see if anyone notices.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 16:05

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Pinterest Mom posted:

We replaced Andrew Coyne with a progressive. Let's see if anyone notices.

I get the impression from his twitter that he has hit the wall on right wing hyper partisanship and is recoiling incredibly far and hard.

I came to post that Dave Meslin, the guy who spearheaded the campaign to get non-citizens the vote in Toronto municipal elections has a new campaign launching to push for proportional representation nationally. https://www.facebook.com/UnlockDemocracyCanada

Check it out, lets see where it goes.

Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jun 23, 2013

# ? Jun 23, 2013 16:22

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Congratulations Coyne, you ride the line of political "indistinctiveness" once again. A conservative liberal libertarian socialist indeed.

Basically that entire convo (yeah, I was up for the whole thing) was a milquetoast progressive ragging on the Jay Leno of columnists. However, he's not wrong - they were accusing him of being far right of center, as if he's anywhere close to Mcdonald-Laurier output. The guy is far too careful for that, which is a somewhat forehead-slappingly obvious way to readership in Canadian journalism.

edit: also loving the snipe-fest between Sid Ryan and Coyne right now.

Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jun 23, 2013

# ? Jun 23, 2013 16:24

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

Coyne is just really weird. He's grossly pro-market in nearly all situations, but I get the feeling all it would take for him to vote NDP would be for the NDP to run on a platform of a massive transfer of wealth to the poor and a carbon tax.

Which, you know, is a lot farther towards achieving NDP goals than the NDP itself is prepared to go.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 16:37

Political Whores: Feb 13, 2012

Pinterest Mom posted:

Coyne is just really weird. He's grossly pro-market in nearly all situations, but I get the feeling all it would take for him to vote NDP would be for the NDP to run on a platform of a massive transfer of wealth to the poor and a carbon tax.

Which, you know, is a lot farther towards achieving NDP goals than the NDP itself is prepared to go.

Coyne seems to operate under the assumption that the government is largely incompetent and shouldn't do anything it doesn't have to.* But he doesn't have the bootstraps, poor-people-deserve-their-fate-oh-and-global-warming-isn't-real mentality that usually goes along with it.

*Which, sometimes I sort of get, given that many of my extended family works in the public service, and they tell me some horror stories about how shittily programs are run, especially when they cut budgets but don't bother just ending the program, despite making it completely ineffective. I really wish the topic of government inefficiency could be talked about without giving fuel to assholes who want to cut social programs, instead of actually looking for ways to improve service delivery and cost.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 16:47

Danny LaFever: Dec 29, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Hodgepodge posted:

I do know that the meme "I like the NDP, but they just aren't responsible with money" is something I've been hearing since I was born. Basically, the idea that deficits and government debt are the only potential problems with economic policy, applied to the Canadian context.

As have I. At the time I was born. Saskatchewan had an NDP government and the province was in the black. Then people voted in Grant Devine because it was time for change and he beggared the province. I doubt even the boom of today will ever make up for what was lost.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:04

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Cordyceps Headache posted:

Coyne seems to operate under the assumption that the government is largely incompetent and shouldn't do anything it doesn't have to.* But he doesn't have the bootstraps, poor-people-deserve-their-fate-oh-and-global-warming-isn't-real mentality that usually goes along with it.

*Which, sometimes I sort of get, given that many of my extended family works in the public service, and they tell me some horror stories about how shittily programs are run, especially when they cut budgets but don't bother just ending the program, despite making it completely ineffective. I really wish the topic of government inefficiency could be talked about without giving fuel to assholes who want to cut social programs, instead of actually looking for ways to improve service delivery and cost.

It seems to me that Coyne firmly believes in the free market as the ultimate end, with the recognition that it is the most efficient and profitable means of production yet discovered by humanity, and therefore also the way to theoretically bring the most prosperity to everyone. But he also recognizes that when driven entirely by the profit motive there are certain things the free market does not do well, that leads to horribly exploitative practices or that ignores long-term concerns like global warming in favour of short-term concerns like quarterly profits. So he's in favour of maximum free market in every sector that he doesn't feel is one of those exploitative ones, and regulations where necessary to effect the long-term change. This would explain why he's in favour of universal healthcare (one look at the US health industry from the outside should be enough to scare anyone rational off that exploitative model), a guaranteed minimum income (leaving everyone free to engage in the free market as they see fit and thus become maximally productive without having to demean themselves to exploitative bosses simply in order to survive), and a carbon tax (distort the market slightly to encourage corporations to think long-term). It's a fairly rational market-focused viewpoint, that us social democrats may not disagree with but that does share a little common ground.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:18

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

vyelkin posted:

It seems to me that Coyne firmly believes in the free market as the ultimate end, with the recognition that it is the most efficient and profitable means of production yet discovered by humanity, and therefore also the way to theoretically bring the most prosperity to everyone. But he also recognizes that when driven entirely by the profit motive there are certain things the free market does not do well, that leads to horribly exploitative practices or that ignores long-term concerns like global warming in favour of short-term concerns like quarterly profits. So he's in favour of maximum free market in every sector that he doesn't feel is one of those exploitative ones, and regulations where necessary to effect the long-term change. This would explain why he's in favour of universal healthcare (one look at the US health industry from the outside should be enough to scare anyone rational off that exploitative model), a guaranteed minimum income (leaving everyone free to engage in the free market as they see fit and thus become maximally productive without having to demean themselves to exploitative bosses simply in order to survive), and a carbon tax (distort the market slightly to encourage corporations to think long-term). It's a fairly rational market-focused viewpoint, that us social democrats may not disagree with but that does share a little common ground.

I'm not particularly familiar with Coyne, but this seems to agree with everything I've ever seen him say. And really I can't fault much of the logic in this.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 19:05

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

PittTheElder posted:

I'm not particularly familiar with Coyne, but this seems to agree with everything I've ever seen him say. And really I can't fault much of the logic in this.

Motherfucker is a chameleon - look what he was saying in 2006 vs now.

edit: vv I know!

Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jun 24, 2013

# ? Jun 23, 2013 19:39

quaint bucket: Nov 29, 2007

Yeah, it's amazing when people's opinion change or evolve over a long period of time.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 00:53

tripwood: Jul 21, 2003; "Cuno can see you're trying to shit him, but Cuno's unshittable, so fuck does Cuno care?"

Hint: He doesn't care.

Bonne f�te nationale tout le monde!

# ? Jun 24, 2013 14:16

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

Here's some compare and contrast:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/05/25/quebec-flooding-defence-minister-visits.html (Quebec)

quote:

Defence Minister Peter MacKay visited Quebec's flood zone along the Richelieu River on Wednesday, as residents brace for a long cleanup, which they will have to do without any help from the military.

Wearing hip waders, MacKay spent some time in one of the hardest-hit towns � Saint-Blaise-sur-Richelieu � as residents in the flood region vented their frustration at the federal government's handling of the crisis.

Flood waters are receding after a tough weather weekend that included wind gusts and steady rain in the region southwest of Montreal.

MacKay expressed sadness at the sight of flooded streets and farmland, and he promised that some 500 soldiers on site would not be withdrawn for at least a few days.

He would not commit, however, to having the troops stick around to help with the cleanup. MacKay explained that the federal role is protecting people during the emergency phase of the disaster.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/federal-government-ready-to-foot-the-bill-for-alberta-flooding-damage/article12762885/ (Alberta)

quote:

Ottawa will �be there to help� Calgary and other southern Alberta communities recover from massive flooding in the region, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney said on Sunday.

As Calgary�s Bow and Elbow Rivers began to recede over the weekend, officials faced growing questions about who will pay for the extensive damage to be repaired. Mr. Kenney, who represents the riding of Calgary Southeast, said Ottawa is already helping with ongoing rescue efforts and expects to provide additional support to help the province and affected municipalities rebuild.

[...]

Mr. MacKay said he spoke with Ms. Redford about concerns regarding washouts on bridges and roads in the area. In response to those concerns, engineers from the Canadian Forces are prepared to install lightweight, portable bridges if needed, he said. He said the naval reserve is also ready to step in with rigid inflatable boats.

A spokeswoman for Mr. MacKay declined to say on Sunday whether troops might remain in the area to help with the rebuilding efforts. �Their current priorities are evacuation and helping local authorities with relief efforts,� Paloma Aguilar wrote in an e-mail. �Further actions will be determined as the situation evolves.�

Am I misinterpreting what I am reading here? If not, then I cannot wait for the fall out from this. :allears:

# ? Jun 24, 2013 15:57

Excelsiortothemax: Sep 9, 2006

I wonder if this disaster will be the breaking point for the housing market? Or would something have to happen to Toronto or Vancouver to tip the scales are pop the bubble?

# ? Jun 24, 2013 16:18

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

quote:

Climate change altering insurers� risk assessment: Geneva think tank

The study also acknowledged that socio-economic factors, like a growing number of homes for the wealthy built in coastal areas and flood plains, drive up insurance costs

Climate change is creating more frequent and more unpredictable extreme weather events, forcing insurers to change their assessment criteria for the risk of natural disasters hitting a specific area, the Geneva Association think tank said on Monday.

�Traditional approaches, which are solely based on analysing historical data, increasingly fail to estimate today�s hazard probabilities,� the think tank for strategically important insurance and risk management issues, warned in a report, adding that the insurance industry needed to support scientific research to gain a better understanding of when and where weather-related disasters will hit.

According to a UN report last month, natural disasters have cost the world $2.5 trillion so far this century, which is far higher than previously estimated.

The Geneva Association�s chief, John Fitzpatrick, pointed out today that ocean warming and rising sea levels were especially a key driver of extreme weather events, causing ��a shift towards a �new normal� for a number of insurance-relevant hazards.��

In the 38-page report, titled �Warming of the Oceans and implications for the (re)insurance industry,� the Geneva Association stresses the need for insurers to not only look at historical data but to also understand �changes of ocean dynamics and the complex interaction between the ocean and the atmosphere.�

This, it said, was �key to understanding current changes in the distribution, frequency and intensity of global extreme events relevant to the insurance industry, such as tropical cyclones, flash floods or extra-tropical winter storms.�

The study, headed by Falk Niehorster of the Risk Prediction Initiative of the Bermuda Institute of Ocean Science, acknowledged that the main driver of rising insurance costs was linked to socio-economic factors, like a growing number of homes for the wealthy built in coastal areas and flood plains.

However, it said, the lack of historical data to predict future catastrophes, as well as competing theories among scientists on when and where they will strike was also making it difficult for insurers to accurately price the risks.

The best way to ensure that �ambiguous risks� remain insurable, the study said, was for the insurance industry to raise awareness of risk and climate change through ��risk education and disseminating high-quality risk information.�

and here's a story from May 29th:

quote:

Alberta urged to prepare for increasingly severe weather as insurance losses mount

Canada�s insurance lobby says Albertans are less likely to be worried about weather trends linked to climate change than others in the country, despite a recent six-fold increase in insured damages from severe storms, fires and flooding.

But as property and casualty carriers respond by hiking premiums up to 25 per cent this year, the Insurance Bureau of Canada says the province and its municipalities need to get serious about mitigating losses in Alberta that have mounted to an average of $670 million annually in the past four years compared to an average of $100 million annually in the previous 15 years.

�Alberta has become the place where bad weather pays a visit more often,� said Don Forgeron, IBC�s president and chief executive.

�We could simply raise premiums, walk away and be quiet, but we think there is another way.�

Polling done this month for IBC found 91 per cent of Canadians have noticed a change in weather patterns over the past decade, but only 80 per cent of Albertans had spotted a trend.

The numbers also showed residents of the province were less likely than others in the country to be concerned about the changes that have made Albertans the worst hit by natural catastrophes.

According to the poll, residents were also more likely than other Canadians to make the mistake of naming Ontario instead of their home province as the largest producer of greenhouse gas emissions that have been linked to climate change.

Forgeron, who is scheduled to speak to Calgary�s Chamber of Commerce on Wednesday, said he isn�t coming to the city to preach to oil executives about limiting the cause of this looming problem.

But he does believe governments, business and consumers need to adapt or risk seeing their losses from severe weather continue to rise.

�An Alberta farmer who just had his barn damaged by yet another hailstorm probably doesn�t care if the climate graph is shaped like a hockey stick or not.� Forgeron said.

�Neither are we, but we are interested in the impact on our customers and members.�

A recent study prepared for IBC by the Institute for Catastrophic Loss and Reduction predicts Alberta will see a 10 per cent increase in severe weather events by 2050 as average annual temperatures in the province rise up to four degrees Celsius as a result of global warming.

The report says the result will be drought conditions and shortages of potable water in fast-growing cities like Calgary.

Combined with a 20 per cent increase in lightning frequency, the dry conditions will increase the likelihood of wildfires similar to the Slave Lake disaster two years ago.

Rainstorms, when they come, will be more intense and could cause flash-flooding in low-lying areas and overwhelm existing storm sewer systems.

John Pomeroy, the Canada research chair in Water Resources and Climate Change at the University of Saskatchewan, has studied rainfall records on the Prairies for the past century and found a marked increase in the number of multi-day rain events during the summer that can overwhelm streams and rivers.

�Those big frontal systems are increasing in their intensity and frequency,� said Pomeroy, �and we�re fast learning that our roads, our bridges and even some of our towns aren�t any match for the rainfall and the overflow that results.�

While Alberta�s infrastructure is better able to withstand the threat of increased flooding than that in other Western provinces, he said there are areas like the Cougar Creek subdivision in Canmore that are especially vulnerable.

�Cities need to be much more rigorous about where they�re letting people build,� Forgeron said.

�That home along the river is beautiful until the water starts running through your living room.�

Residential development in older neighbourhoods along the Elbow River and Bow River in Calgary occurred long before the risk was known and the city has had to build embankments or develop plans for the placement of temporary barriers to prevent flooding.

But Frank Frigo, a senior planning engineer with Calgary�s water resources department, said newer subdivisions such as Quarry Park and Chaparral Valley have been subject to scrutiny prior to approval.

�We end up being very cautious and very concerned about the impact of any development in the river valleys,� Frigo said.

While the vast majority of new homes in Alberta are equipped with sewer backup valves, Forgeron said cities and towns need to consider following Edmonton�s lead in providing grants to homeowners to retrofit their properties and prevent basement flooding.

Forgeron said IBC is also developing a risk assessment tool that will allow cities and towns to identify where they need to improve sewer and stormwater systems to handle the deluges expected in the coming decades.

The province started flood hazard mapping during the 1970s to identify areas with a risk greater than one per cent of being flooded in any given year, but a spokesman with Alberta Environment and Sustainable Resource Development said the assessments are based on historical data and have not been updated to include the effects of climate change.

�Flood mapping is woefully inadequate in the country,� Forgeron said.

�Governments have not invested in up-to-date flood maps, so it�s difficult to predict exactly where these rivers are most at risk of flooding.�

# ? Jun 24, 2013 16:31

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Excelsiortothemax posted:

I wonder if this disaster will be the breaking point for the housing market? Or would something have to happen to Toronto or Vancouver to tip the scales are pop the bubble?

All real estate is local, so I wouldn't expect this to have any actual effect on the housing market nation wide.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 17:07

Bleu: Jul 19, 2006

ocrumsprug posted:

All real estate is local, so I wouldn't expect this to have any actual effect on the housing market nation wide.

Additionally, I don't see why a flood is going to finally polish off the housing bubble - it's not like these condo developers don't spring for the disaster insurance.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 17:25

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

Also half of Calgary is underwater and it hasn't really affected the economy at all.

The same would not be true if Toronto flooded.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 18:06

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I don't know why you'd expect it to effect the economy. Downtown has been closed for 2 workdays. Does the economy tank every long weekend?

# ? Jun 24, 2013 18:54

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

MA-Horus posted:

Also half of Calgary is underwater and it hasn't really affected the economy at all.

The same would not be true if Toronto flooded.

That's because Alberta's sleek, futuristic petroeconomy is impervious to old-world concerns like "global commodity price fluctuations" and "natural disasters".

# ? Jun 24, 2013 18:56

Vermain: Sep 5, 2006

MA-Horus posted:

Also half of Calgary is underwater and it hasn't really affected the economy at all.

The same would not be true if Toronto flooded.

It's probably going to make at least a small dent to the local economy, depending on how quickly they can get the Stampede grounds up and running. The Stampede is one of those events that people plan extensively for, and pushing it back even a week'll hit travel agents, hotels, etc. right in the pocketbook. To put it in perspective: this is about the time of the year where they're supposed to be getting the midway set up.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 19:16

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Sky Marshal Harper surveys the damage:

# ? Jun 24, 2013 20:37

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

vyelkin posted:

It seems to me that Coyne firmly believes in the free market as the ultimate end, with the recognition that it is the most efficient and profitable means of production yet discovered by humanity, and therefore also the way to theoretically bring the most prosperity to everyone. But he also recognizes that when driven entirely by the profit motive there are certain things the free market does not do well, that leads to horribly exploitative practices or that ignores long-term concerns like global warming in favour of short-term concerns like quarterly profits. So he's in favour of maximum free market in every sector that he doesn't feel is one of those exploitative ones, and regulations where necessary to effect the long-term change. This would explain why he's in favour of universal healthcare (one look at the US health industry from the outside should be enough to scare anyone rational off that exploitative model), a guaranteed minimum income (leaving everyone free to engage in the free market as they see fit and thus become maximally productive without having to demean themselves to exploitative bosses simply in order to survive), and a carbon tax (distort the market slightly to encourage corporations to think long-term). It's a fairly rational market-focused viewpoint, that us social democrats may not disagree with but that does share a little common ground.

It's shocking to see one in the wild, but could it be one of the last of the famous Canadian Red Tories?

# ? Jun 24, 2013 20:38

Mrs. Wynand: Nov 23, 2002; DLT 4EVA

Helsing posted:

Sky Marshal Harper surveys the damage:

Is that just weird lighting? Why does it look like a photoshop? Or maybe a still from the (direct-to-video) Starship Troopers 2 or 3.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 20:45

Paper Jam Dipper: Jul 14, 2007; by XyloJW

Mr. Wynand posted:

Is that just weird lighting? Why does it look like a photoshop? Or maybe a still from the (direct-to-video) Starship Troopers 2 or 3.

The greens look exactly like the Greens in the Christmas Carol re-colouring.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 20:48

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I was just about to say it looks exactly like a sketch from Air Farce. Definitely looks like it's from a TV studio.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 20:51

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Calgary has a disaster: feds send the army.

Aboriginals have a disaster: feds send an auditor, and some body bags.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:07

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

I miss Air Farce and Double Exposure. I doubt even they'd manage to make Harper funny though.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:15

Saalkin: Jun 29, 2008

Entropic posted:

I miss Air Farce and Double Exposure. I doubt even they'd manage to make Harper funny though.

Well Air Farce sure as poo poo wasn't funny during it's last couple of years.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:16

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

THC posted:

Calgary has a disaster: feds send the army.

Aboriginals have a disaster: feds send an auditor, and some body bags.

One voted for the party in power and the Prime Minister's seat and one did not.

Saalkin posted:

Well Air Farce sure as poo poo wasn't funny during it's last couple of years.

Jessica Holmes was the death rattle.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:17

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Saalkin posted:

Well Air Farce sure as poo poo wasn't funny during it's last couple of years.

I just have vague fond memories of weekend comedy shows on CBC radio 1 that weren't awful.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:18

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Also, do you really think deploying the Army to a reserve would play well with... anybody? I mean, come on.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:18

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Entropic posted:

I just have vague fond memories of weekend comedy shows on CBC radio 1 that weren't awful.

They kinda died when Double Exposure went off the air.

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:20

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

The Debaters isn't terrible, but if I never hear This Is That again it will be too soon.

The Irrelevant Show is amateur hour too. CBC, you used to be good at this? What happened?

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:24

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 15:32

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

It would be funny if instead of a visit from the Prime Minister Himself and 500 of Her Majesty's Finest Fighting Men they had got an army of private sector beancounters to make sure Nenshi and Redford haven't been embezzling the disaster relief funds. Then they'd be like "yeah there's a few irregularities here" and then the editorial board of every newspaper could tut-tut at the calgarians for being so irresponsible and castigate them for whining about old grievances. Meanwhile anyone who doesn't have an amphibious vehicle to escape in gets to sit all cold and clammy and waiting for relief that will never come

# ? Jun 24, 2013 21:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canadian Politics Megathread: That is simply not Trudeau

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