Game Jobs Megathread: Wear clean underwear to avoid the smellz.

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Sigma-X: Jun 17, 2005

treeboy posted:

oh lord programming talk.

I can set keyframes, that's kinda like programming right? I use a mouse and keyboard?

As a slight tangent to the above console talk, I'm very curious to see how quickly consoles of this new generation are adopted. Personally I'm somewhat of the opinion that (in terms of sales) WiiU is a bit of a harbinger of this cycle. Slower sales, lower adoption rates, and in 2-3 years we're still going to be publishing Wii/Ps3/360 games while the new consoles very slowly replace the old. People will call it a failure, but I think it's more to do with economies and perceived value than anything.

that would likely cause changes in business practices far faster than physical/digital fisticuffs

WiiU is hardly a harbinger of "next gen."

WiiU represents such a short step forward in hardware (a half-gig of RAM and not much else) and Nintendo has a proven track record at this point of being a goddamn graveyard for third party, such that no one is going to make a WiiU exclusive title. Which is why you aren't seeing anything except a handful of 360/PS3 ported games on it - there's no reason to risk it.

When you couple this with a lackluster launch of Nintendo IP, and a marketing push that has left the casual Wii-users confused as to why they would want/need/do not already own WiiU, you get the current WiiU.

In comparison, the next generation of consoles represents a hardware architecture that is both significantly more powerful than the previous generation, along with being very portable between the PC and both consoles, meaning that its much safer to make multiplatform next-gen games for the next gen consoles compared to the WiiU.

Having that third party support means a larger games library, which means more sales. While there is overlap, the PC vs Console market is relatively segmented and safe, and until someone makes a PC that emulates all of the feature set of a console while actually offering a better value/feature set (which isn't happening in the next couple of years, at least), the next gen consoles are going to do just fine.

You're still going to see "bridge" titles at launch that show up on both platforms, same as you did with the PS2->3 and Xbox->360 launches, but after the first year those aren't going to exist beyond a handful of sports or kids-themed franchises.

# ? Jun 21, 2013 17:17

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 07:46

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

Shalinor posted:

Ditto. Though I continue to look at them and go "eh - maybe I will care about using that in 5 years." So yes, much of C++11 isn't design patterns, but that's also the part of C++11 that my eyes kind of glaze over when I get to.

Stuff like CRTP, THAT is the neat "new" C++ I feel is important to know. I love CRTP so much.

Where do you guys actually find yourselves using this stuff? As an industry, even templates haven't seen as widespread adoption in games as might make sense. It has me wondering how I would ever learn the entirety C++11, when I see no real reason to use it, and reading about C++ without applying it usefully is a terrible approach to learning (for me at least).

Basically, it still looks like something I would come across in that one hard-core engineer's code, raise an eyebrow at, quickly google, go "oh," and then move on.

(Just a brief note: at work we're using C++03, but with boost to get us some C++11 features. I blame the Marmalade SDK which forces you to use llvm-g++ 4.2.1 instead of clang on OS X, which sucks because they provide GCC 4.4.3 as their ARM compiler, and at least that supports rvalue references)

I've been using SFINAE and ADL at work (along with boost type traits :swoon:

) to make sure that when the other people on the team use any generic function they get a nice and polite compile time error saying "YOU DIDN'T USE THIS RIGHT." They can then look at the function signature which I've taken great pains to make it look like:

C++ code:

typename enable_if<
  trait::has_operator_equals<ReturnType, LHS, RHS>,
  trait::has_function_named_whatever<ReturnType, boost::tuple<param_type1, param_type2> >
>::type

function_name(T const&) {
  // Do whatever here
}

(The above example is horrible, it looks a lot smaller than that trust me). If they do it wrong they get taken to the line where the function was instantiated, along with a single line error saying which trait they didn't do right. While some people were a bit upset at first because their small generic functions now had these huge type enforcements, it cut down on many of our junior engineers going "Oh I didn't use that function because I got a weird error in the standard library", and then them spending an unnecessary amount of time writing their own for this one type, when all they had to do was make sure a getter was const.

Also getting less complaints in general about what some of our code does, and what type signatures are expected.

You pretty much have to know the difference between all of the different values as it means the difference between this being an error:

C++ code:

int integer = 0;
int main () {
  [integer] { return integer; }();
}

And this NOT being an error:

C++ code:

int main ()
  int integer = 0;
  [integer] { return integer; }();
}

As well as this being an error:

C++ code:

std::addressof(nullptr);

and this NOT being an error:

C++ code:

constexpr decltype(nullptr) oh_god = nullptr;
std::addressof(oh_god);

Variadic templates are useful for perfect forwarding and constructing objects in place within a container. Everyone knows the good old .insert, which copies the item passed in but now you can emplace with any number of parameters, and it will construct it in place, forgoing the unnecessary copy construction for those cases where you insert a newly constructed object.

You can also do some crazy cool things with VTs and CRTP.

There's also the whole standard library changes which I'm not going to go into, but one of the biggest changes are how all Allocators are now able to hold state. Which owns pretty hard. The streams portion of the library is still a bit garbage in my opinion, but that may be because its a whole other animal compared to the rest of the library.

Also the unrestricted union stuff just makes it so you can use a union with anything you want, as it should be.

Also also, if you have access to the nullptr constant and still insist on using NULL may The Ghost in the Compiler have mercy on your wretched pagan soul.

# ? Jun 21, 2013 17:18

GeeCee: Dec 16, 2004; "You're going to be...amazing."

treeboy posted:

oh lord programming talk.

yeah man, we never talk about art in here :C

I need to make more headway through that zbrush book you guys recommended, but at least in the meantime I'm becoming one almighty pixel art ninja :v:

# ? Jun 21, 2013 17:18

mastermind2004: Sep 14, 2007

xgalaxy posted:

If someone asked me what SFINAE was in a job interview I think I'd walk right out. No, I think I'd run.

I've actually used that within the last year in my games job. See one of my big posts earlier in the thread about a serialization system that relied on SFINAE for allowing different specializations based on if an object was derived from a specific type or not.

# ? Jun 21, 2013 17:24

MarsMattel: May 25, 2001; God, I've heard about those cults Ted. People dressing up in black and saying Our Lord's going to come back and save us all.

This is a pretty good run through of the C++11 features. The ones I want to use are all the "user friendly" ones, like auto, initialiser lists, lambdas etc. Was very disappointed when I realised VS2012 did not have the vast majority of the ones I wanted to use

# ? Jun 21, 2013 17:38

Paniolo: Oct 9, 2007; Heads will roll.

The reason I recommend learning idiomatic C++11 isn't because it's a prevalent style in games, it's because I think it's a much better introduction to C++ than the OOP-focused "C with classes" poo poo people usually get taught in school, since it's more focused on generic and functional styles than OOP. It's not really a C++11 thing (the STL has always been designed that way) it's just that C++11 makes that style a lot less verbose and easier to learn.

I also expect that once we stop targeting the PS3/360 generation many C++11 features will see pretty widespread adoption even in games.

wasabimilkshake posted:

Out of curiosity, would your answer be, "it depends on how you access the data 'cuz CPU cache lol?"

Pretty much, also depends on whether parts of the data need to be extracted out for SPU/GPU work and whether there's potential to use SIMD instructions.

# ? Jun 21, 2013 17:58

Shindragon: Jun 6, 2011; by Athanatos

Aliginge posted:

yeah man, we never talk about art in here :C

I need to make more headway through that zbrush book you guys recommended, but at least in the meantime I'm becoming one almighty pixel art ninja

That zbrush book is very helpful. While my models aren't nothing to really look at it, at least I"m getting the basics down. I did skip a couple of pages because I already know the keyboard shortcuts to the UI and all. My tree looks pretty bad though, haha.

And fellow pixel artist eh?

:hfive:

# ? Jun 21, 2013 18:48

treeboy: Nov 13, 2004; James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

Sigma-X posted:

WiiU is hardly a harbinger of "next gen."

WiiU represents such a short step forward in hardware (a half-gig of RAM and not much else) and Nintendo has a proven track record at this point of being a goddamn graveyard for third party, such that no one is going to make a WiiU exclusive title. Which is why you aren't seeing anything except a handful of 360/PS3 ported games on it - there's no reason to risk it.

When you couple this with a lackluster launch of Nintendo IP, and a marketing push that has left the casual Wii-users confused as to why they would want/need/do not already own WiiU, you get the current WiiU.

In comparison, the next generation of consoles represents a hardware architecture that is both significantly more powerful than the previous generation, along with being very portable between the PC and both consoles, meaning that its much safer to make multiplatform next-gen games for the next gen consoles compared to the WiiU.

Having that third party support means a larger games library, which means more sales. While there is overlap, the PC vs Console market is relatively segmented and safe, and until someone makes a PC that emulates all of the feature set of a console while actually offering a better value/feature set (which isn't happening in the next couple of years, at least), the next gen consoles are going to do just fine.

You're still going to see "bridge" titles at launch that show up on both platforms, same as you did with the PS2->3 and Xbox->360 launches, but after the first year those aren't going to exist beyond a handful of sports or kids-themed franchises.

I would never argue that Nintendo hasn't dropped the ball in many regards with many aspects of the WiiU launch, from hardware to titles and marketing. However its initial launch is also roughly on par with launch sales for last generation, post-launch adoption rate being more greatly affected by the aforementioned issues.

Still this isn't really about the WiiU specifically. From a development standpoint the differences between this and last generation are extremely obvious, for average gamers I felt for awhile that the difference in perceived value is much much lower. WiiU is the extreme example, but I think that we'll see lower and slower adoption rates across all three consoles for the next several years. I'm sure one will be the "standout" (probably ps4 going by current public opinion) but it's hard to ignore install bases of 75+ million Ps3/360/Wii consoles.

It'll be more like the Ps2 release schedule except for everyone unless the console publishers stop allowing games on the old systems.

Of course we'll see bridge titles, however this e3 almost all the titles were bridge titles and nobody was willing to completely jump ship (except for a small collection of first party killer apps that won't be out in the next 12 months)

# ? Jun 21, 2013 19:15

Dinurth: Aug 6, 2004; ?

My apologies for not remembering, but who is the resident law expert around here? I have some fairly serious questions about contracts (or lack there of) and would love to get a solid answer.

Edit: nevermind I'm done and a small amount of searching answered my own question! Diplomaticus I'm going to PM you if that's ok.

Dinurth fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jun 21, 2013

# ? Jun 21, 2013 19:57

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Word.

# ? Jun 21, 2013 21:01

Zizi: Jan 7, 2010

Paniolo posted:

(For example: what circumstances to use an array of structs vs a struct of arrays?)

Apropos of nothing, I found this bit right here particularly amusing because this is actually a very important thing to know where I'm working right now (we make a small mobile game platform with an extremely tight hardware spec and a lot of quirks and so on, and our SDK's linker does some really insane, aggressive optimization stuff).

Personally, I'm happy to hear all this C++11 stuff discussed. I'm in the position of having a weird art/design/code hybrid skillset(and right now I'm kind of working Production-side, of all things) and I've been in C# for a longish while. I'm back in C++ now for this job, and while we don't use C++11 stuff, I've been wanting to try and puzzle some of it out (especially with XNA's end of life). It is really baffling having learned C/C++ back in the day and then landing in the middle of modern C++. I came back to it and there's all this namespace and shared_ptrs and unique_ptrs and who knows what else.

# ? Jun 21, 2013 22:51

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

Zizi posted:

Apropos of nothing, I found this bit right here particularly amusing because this is actually a very important thing to know where I'm working right now (we make a small mobile game platform with an extremely tight hardware spec and a lot of quirks and so on, and our SDK's linker does some really insane, aggressive optimization stuff).

Personally, I'm happy to hear all this C++11 stuff discussed. I'm in the position of having a weird art/design/code hybrid skillset(and right now I'm kind of working Production-side, of all things) and I've been in C# for a longish while. I'm back in C++ now for this job, and while we don't use C++11 stuff, I've been wanting to try and puzzle some of it out (especially with XNA's end of life). It is really baffling having learned C/C++ back in the day and then landing in the middle of modern C++. I came back to it and there's all this namespace and shared_ptrs and unique_ptrs and who knows what else.

Just wait until next year when C++14 will be everywhere but visual studio. :getin:

# ? Jun 22, 2013 01:12

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

SAHChandler posted:

Just wait until next year when C++14 will be everywhere but visual studio.

Is there some reason why C++11 hasn't seen (EDIT: full, that is) adoption by Visual Studio?

I mean, I think I'd still be looking at it as unnecessary, but the idea that most of it can't even be used without me dropping to gcc seems downright weird. 11 means like, 2011, right? So over 2 years ago now? (EDIT: August 2011, ok, so not quite 2 years, but still, come on)

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jun 22, 2013

# ? Jun 22, 2013 01:15

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

Shalinor posted:

Is there some reason why C++11 hasn't seen adoption by Visual Studio?

I mean, I think I'd still be looking at it as unnecessary, but the idea that most of it can't even be used without me dropping to gcc seems downright weird. 11 means like, 2011, right? So over 2 years ago now? (EDIT: August 2011, ok, so not quite 2 years, but still, come on)

rjmccall has discussed it in CoC's C++ thread (which is a good thread that anyone who has questions about C++ should visit), but to sum it up from memory, it comes down to Microsoft's backwards compat approach resulting in 'undefined' behavior being defined by the compiler, the frontend is apparently so awful and messed up that no one wants to touch it without risking breaking how the AST is passed on to the backend, and a bunch of awful hacks that affect the actual language feature. Lambdas aren't actually lambdas (this behavior actually changes between VS2010 and VS2012), variadic templates in the November 2012 CTP are a hack, uniform initialization in the CTP break in some cases with type narrowing, raw literal strings break in some cases, decltype breaks in many cases, templates aren't evaluated properly.

For an example of that last one try compiling this in g++ and msvc (you don't even need C++11)

C++ code:

template <typename T>
struct whatever {
  template <typename T>
  typename T::type shadowed_template () { }
};

And you'll see that g++ errors (as it should), and msvc just builds no problem. You wouldn't mind but Herb Sutter is the head of the C++ team at Microsoft and he's also the committee chair of the C++ ISO committee. It's embarrassing. The one (ONE) engineer they have dedicated to their standard library implementation does a ton of work with GCC, going so far as to provide an install-able version for windows on his website. (It's x86 but whatever)

Meanwhile on the PS4 you get clang with C++11 support (ok, so with the version you get it's not all 100% there, but the stuff that is there is the stuff that matters. Oh yeah and it integrates with Visual Studio. And WORKS.). On XBone you get VS201X (since they are moving to a yearly release now. How wonderful). I feel bad for anyone stuck targeting both platforms, because MSVC is going to be the one field goal kick you missed that made you lose the championship game in high school and you can't do anything but live with it.

I predict GCC and Clang will have implemented C++14 before MSVC fully implements C++11.

# ? Jun 22, 2013 01:36

Chainclaw: Feb 14, 2009

Anyone know any studios looking for tech artists? I have a really talented friend looking for work. Especially related to animation and Maya related tech artist work, as well as pipeline improvements within Maya. He's also really good at rigging, which some studios consider under the tech artist umbrella.

# ? Jun 22, 2013 04:26

Sigma-X: Jun 17, 2005

Chainclaw posted:

Anyone know any studios looking for tech artists? I have a really talented friend looking for work. Especially related to animation and Maya related tech artist work, as well as pipeline improvements within Maya. He's also really good at rigging, which some studios consider under the tech artist umbrella.

http://www.readyatdawn.com/

# ? Jun 22, 2013 04:54

Chainclaw: Feb 14, 2009

Sigma-X posted:

http://www.readyatdawn.com/

Cool, sent this his way, you guys do awesome games.

# ? Jun 22, 2013 18:35

baby puzzle: Jun 3, 2011; I'll Sequence your Storm.

I wonder how much (if any) support there is for C++11 stuff in the compilers we use. I honestly have no idea but when our code needs to support the lowest common denominator for all console tools (Nintendo!!!), I doubt that we will be using any of it very soon.

# ? Jun 22, 2013 18:51

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

baby puzzle posted:

I wonder how much (if any) support there is for C++11 stuff in the compilers we use. I honestly have no idea but when our code needs to support the lowest common denominator for all console tools (Nintendo!!!), I doubt that we will be using any of it very soon.

If you're using the GHS C++ compiler (WiiU) it does have some C++11 support but they are a black box for publicly available information, so I've no idea. The easiest way to find out is to read the documentation for your compiler (or run the compiler with --help on the command line :v:

). If you're stuck on Wii, then I have nothing but sympathy.

# ? Jun 22, 2013 21:22

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Being one step away from devnet access, don't quite know this yet - would the XBONE and WiiU toolsets at least be built to adapt, as C++11 becomes a thing over the next half decade years? Or is it actually likely that they'll be frozen, features-wise, meaning Microsoft has effectively locked C++11 usage down for another decade or so?

(PS4, I assume, is good - though the same question would apply for C++13 I suppose)

# ? Jun 22, 2013 21:33

emoticon: May 8, 2007

xgalaxy posted:

If someone asked me what SFINAE was in a job interview I think I'd walk right out. No, I think I'd run.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. They might ask you about acronyms and obscure quirks in the C++ standard if they're feeling saucy ("here's an esoteric thing that didn't compile right and caused us a bunch of headaches until we looked it up, now you tell me why this might be without looking it up"), but they're more likely to ask you questions like Paniolo's "what circumstances to use an array of structs vs a struct of arrays?" (because the latter is more of a "thinker" whereas the former is a you know it or not syntax question)

At least this was true as of a few years ago. Maybe things have changed, I don't know (in which case you can probably just get a $60 book on C++11 design patterns and catch up pretty easily).

emoticon fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 22, 2013

# ? Jun 22, 2013 22:38

Paniolo: Oct 9, 2007; Heads will roll.

The only circumstance I can imagine asking that kind of question is if somebody claimed to be an expert in C++ on a resume. That's a mighty tall claim to make.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 00:57

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

Shalinor posted:

Being one step away from devnet access, don't quite know this yet - would the XBONE and WiiU toolsets at least be built to adapt, as C++11 becomes a thing over the next half decade years? Or is it actually likely that they'll be frozen, features-wise, meaning Microsoft has effectively locked C++11 usage down for another decade or so?

(PS4, I assume, is good - though the same question would apply for C++13 I suppose)

I can't say for sure whether MS has locked down C++11. It'd be foolish of them to not provide compiler upgrades for the devkit with such a long expected lifetime of the XBONE, especially when Windows Some Number Here will keep chugging away with a release every 2 or 3 years and a VS release every year. Time will tell.

Paniolo posted:

The only circumstance I can imagine asking that kind of question is if somebody claimed to be an expert in C++ on a resume. That's a mighty tall claim to make.

It's one I see people make all the time.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 03:24

Hazed_blue: May 14, 2002

Chainclaw posted:

Anyone know any studios looking for tech artists? I have a really talented friend looking for work.

We're still looking for a senior tech artist here in Edmonton. Have your friend send an email to "natel at bioware dot com" and I'll forward it along.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 04:43

Gearman: Dec 6, 2011

Chainclaw posted:

Anyone know any studios looking for tech artists? I have a really talented friend looking for work. Especially related to animation and Maya related tech artist work, as well as pipeline improvements within Maya. He's also really good at rigging, which some studios consider under the tech artist umbrella.

I can't think of a single studio that isn't on the lookout for a good tech artist. Tell your friend to submit resumes to their favorite studios and I guarantee they'll hear back from 90% of them within a week. This is doubly true if they have any kind of experience with Motionbuilder.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 05:09

wasabimilkshake: Aug 21, 2007; North Carolina votes yes.

Gearman posted:

This is doubly true if they have any kind of experience with Motionbuilder.

What, really? I don't have a very good read on the popularity of MotionBuilder, because there doesn't seem to be any sort of community attached to it. I've never fully worked out whether a.) nobody talks about MotionBuilder because it's a niche thing that's not used in a way amenable to posting about on polycount, or b.) nobody talks about MotionBuilder because nobody uses MotionBuilder.

A huge part of my work over the past two years has been programming for MotionBuilder, and I feel like I'm part of a cadre of enlightened souls who actually understand its obtuse SDK. At the same time, it feels like an underwhelming skill that not many companies have a need for.

But while we're on the topic of experience with MotionBuilder, here is a plug for a thing that I did: http://awforsythe.com/tutorials

# ? Jun 23, 2013 07:13

Canned Bovines: Jan 15, 2008

Wasabimilkshake, you are my new best friend. My boss has me learning MotionBuilder from scratch and, like you said, there's not a lot of information out there.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 08:12

Horrible Smutbeast: Sep 2, 2011

Gearman posted:

I can't think of a single studio that isn't on the lookout for a good tech artist. Tell your friend to submit resumes to their favorite studios and I guarantee they'll hear back from 90% of them within a week. This is doubly true if they have any kind of experience with Motionbuilder.

For curiosity's sake, what kind of art jobs are always in demand? I'm trying to get into a studio doing the cutesy iOs game graphics and animation without much luck. I might just switch to straight up ol' conceptart or trading card illustrations like I used to do at this rate. I've gotten more emails from random people trawling tumblr for cheap commissions for their lovely "indie game projects" than replies from the dozens of studios I've emailed.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 10:37

GetWellGamers: Apr 11, 2006; The Get-Well Gamers Foundation: Touching Kids Everywhere!

Being able to interview and hire an acquaintance of mine for his first real industry job is probably the best feeling I've had all year. I'm sure eventually he'll get all bitter and disillusioned, but he (and the two other guys I got in) is just so happy right now, to finally get a foot in the door even if it is just QA. :unsmith:

# ? Jun 23, 2013 11:39

GeeCee: Dec 16, 2004; "You're going to be...amazing."

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

For curiosity's sake, what kind of art jobs are always in demand? I'm trying to get into a studio doing the cutesy iOs game graphics and animation without much luck. I might just switch to straight up ol' conceptart or trading card illustrations like I used to do at this rate. I've gotten more emails from random people trawling tumblr for cheap commissions for their lovely "indie game projects" than replies from the dozens of studios I've emailed.

Tiny studios need artists with a wide range of skills. One day you're gonna be doing UI art making buttons, the next you may be doing sprite animation, then some achievement icons or 3d work. Every base you can cover is one the bosses don't have to contract out or settle for substandard work.

Bigger studios more than likely have a role they can put you into.

As for art jobs that seem to be popular, 3D animators and UI artists seem to be very much in demand these days.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 12:16

Gearman: Dec 6, 2011

wasabimilkshake posted:

What, really? I don't have a very good read on the popularity of MotionBuilder, because there doesn't seem to be any sort of community attached to it. I've never fully worked out whether a.) nobody talks about MotionBuilder because it's a niche thing that's not used in a way amenable to posting about on polycount, or b.) nobody talks about MotionBuilder because nobody uses MotionBuilder.

A huge part of my work over the past two years has been programming for MotionBuilder, and I feel like I'm part of a cadre of enlightened souls who actually understand its obtuse SDK. At the same time, it feels like an underwhelming skill that not many companies have a need for.

But while we're on the topic of experience with MotionBuilder, here is a plug for a thing that I did: http://awforsythe.com/tutorials

I should clarify that this is mostly for the AAA-ish level. You're much closer to point A than point B there. It is very niche, because it falls under the umbrella of tech art. I don't really expect that to change much because the number of people that are A) Good artists, B) Good programmers and C) Good at communicating with both groups is miniscule. And then they have to enjoy working in games. However, mocap is becoming a regular part of the bigger budget games, and Motionbuilder is a software package that's being used in both the film and gaming industry. Off the top of my head I know Ubisoft, Rockstar, EA, and Sony all use Motionbuilder in their pipeline and I only expect it to get more popular. I can name maybe three people out of the several hundred developers that I've met and worked with that are comfortable with programming for MotionBuilder. So there is a need, it's just not a "sexy" job, so no one really talks about it that much. To be honest, I didn't know there was a need for it until I had to listen to a coworker next to me talk about how we have very little programming support for it just this past week.

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

For curiosity's sake, what kind of art jobs are always in demand? I'm trying to get into a studio doing the cutesy iOs game graphics and animation without much luck. I might just switch to straight up ol' conceptart or trading card illustrations like I used to do at this rate. I've gotten more emails from random people trawling tumblr for cheap commissions for their lovely "indie game projects" than replies from the dozens of studios I've emailed.

Aliginge pretty much covered it. When I first started I was painting UI icons and backgrounds and then very quickly moved on to rebuilding the UI and doing UI animation work. You'll really need to have a wide range of skills that you need to at least be competent in, though much of it depends on how you're selling yourself when you ship out a portfolio. If you're strictly applying for a character concept position then you probably won't need to know how to texture or light a model in a 3d package, but if you're just applying as an art generalist then you probably should know how to do those things. At this point I think every artist looking to get their foot in the door should have most of these skills:

Solid foundational art skills (understanding of form, light, color, etc.)
Decent 2D painting skills (bonus points for 3d painting skills)
Very knowledgeable to advanced level of familiarity with Photoshop (I really can't stress this one enough)
Competent in at least one 3d package (Max or Maya is preferred, with bonus points for Zbrush in addition to either of those)
Be comfortable modeling, lighting and texturing 3d assets
Comfortable using a wide assortment of various other programs (crazybump, mudbox, illustrator, painter, notepad++, some type of CMS, etc.)

The level of experience needed for each of those is going to change based on the position you're applying for. For example, a character concept artist will probably not need to be super awesome with 3d packages, and an environment artist won't need to be a pro 2d painter (though that always helps). If you're just trying to get your foot in the door, there are a lot of 3d animation and UI artist positions out there, but if you're strictly a 2d person, then putting together a portfolio that shows strong 2d painting skills should get you a UI position without too much problem. Moving laterally from that position should be easy if you show competence in other areas.

Gearman fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jun 23, 2013

# ? Jun 23, 2013 16:48

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

I love talking about new features in C++. My problem with that language has always been that it just isn't big enough. :cthulhu:

On the other hand, changes wouldn't be happening if people didn't want the features, and they all usually seem really cool. That said, my favorite part of C++11 was >>.

I just started working in C++ at a publisher modernizing their SDK, haven't used it since college. The lead was hit by a bus on the 405, and he probably wont be back for another couple weeks. Do any of you have recommendations on how I can convince the 'senior' engineers that thread safety matters? You guys all use threads, right?

And here I was thinking that junior positions were about learning and growth, not trying to teach people higher up the chain about core concepts. :eng99:

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:21

NinjaShteve: Apr 28, 2010

I want to go into game design. I've graduated from a 4 year college, but didn't manage any internships. My portfolio is seriously lacking and I'm unfortunately living in Ohio.

I'm at a point where I'm stuck. In school I studied Maya and game design, but most of my programming has been through other people. So far as making my own games goes, is it better to teach myself code through something like http://www.burgzergarcade.com/hack-slash-rpg-unity3d-game-engine-tutorial ? Or are level editors usually better for landing entry level design positions? Which games have the best editors? How much code should a designer need? Am I correct in thinking it's just basic level scripting, or should I know more?

I don't want to do anything other than games. It's something I really need. I don't care what it takes to do it, I just need to know where to start building.

EDIT
I also know how to animate and did some minor rigging. Is that something I should work on too, or should I spend all of my time working on design?

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:22

Resource: Aug 6, 2006; Yay!

NinjaShteve posted:

I want to go into game design. I've graduated from a 4 year college, but didn't manage any internships. My portfolio is seriously lacking and I'm unfortunately living in Ohio.

I'm at a point where I'm stuck. In school I studied Maya and game design, but most of my programming has been through other people. So far as making my own games goes, is it better to teach myself code through something like http://www.burgzergarcade.com/hack-slash-rpg-unity3d-game-engine-tutorial ? Or are level editors usually better for landing entry level design positions? Which games have the best editors? How much code should a designer need? Am I correct in thinking it's just basic level scripting, or should I know more?

I don't want to do anything other than games. It's something I really need. I don't care what it takes to do it, I just need to know where to start building.

EDIT
I also know how to animate and did some minor rigging. Is that something I should work on too, or should I spend all of my time working on design?

Either making a game or making levels are both good ways to show off your abilities. If you want to do level design then make levels, if you are leaning towards systems design then make a game with unity or something.
There are tons of tools out there, just choose the ones you like the most, possibly cater to the types of games you want to make if you can. Best editors? Unreal and Hammer are pretty popular, and Crytek's Sandbox is nice too. There are others that will be better depending on what type of game you want to work with.
You don't need any code as a designer, but it sure helps you stand out and work better. It probably makes more sense to focus on scripting, which you could do with a visual script like kismet, or something like Lua. Or pick up C# if you are going the unity route.

Hope that helps. I think other answers will vary, but the bottom line is that you should make something. What you make doesn't really matter as much as actually getting something done. After that you can start making things that would appeal to specific places you want to work.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:33

NinjaShteve: Apr 28, 2010

Resource posted:

Either making a game or making levels are both good ways to show off your abilities. If you want to do level design then make levels, if you are leaning towards systems design then make a game with unity or something.
There are tons of tools out there, just choose the ones you like the most, possibly cater to the types of games you want to make if you can. Best editors? Unreal and Hammer are pretty popular, and Crytek's Sandbox is nice too. There are others that will be better depending on what type of game you want to work with.
You don't need any code as a designer, but it sure helps you stand out and work better. It probably makes more sense to focus on scripting, which you could do with a visual script like kismet, or something like Lua. Or pick up C# if you are going the unity route.

Hope that helps. I think other answers will vary, but the bottom line is that you should make something. What you make doesn't really matter as much as actually getting something done. After that you can start making things that would appeal to specific places you want to work.

So if I'm wanting to work with a company that does mainly FPS, like Bungie, I should focus on maps for FPS titles while if I were to pursue somewhere with a more RPG bend it would behoove me to work with something like Shadowrun Returns' quest editor (you know, assuming that when it comes out the editor works)?

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:49

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

leper khan posted:

I love talking about new features in C++. My problem with that language has always been that it just isn't big enough.
On the other hand, changes wouldn't be happening if people didn't want the features, and they all usually seem really cool. That said, my favorite part of C++11 was >>.

I just started working in C++ at a publisher modernizing their SDK, haven't used it since college. The lead was hit by a bus on the 405, and he probably wont be back for another couple weeks. Do any of you have recommendations on how I can convince the 'senior' engineers that thread safety matters? You guys all use threads, right?

And here I was thinking that junior positions were about learning and growth, not trying to teach people higher up the chain about core concepts.

Run for your goddamn life

# ? Jun 23, 2013 17:53

Resource: Aug 6, 2006; Yay!

NinjaShteve posted:

So if I'm wanting to work with a company that does mainly FPS, like Bungie, I should focus on maps for FPS titles while if I were to pursue somewhere with a more RPG bend it would behoove me to work with something like Shadowrun Returns' quest editor (you know, assuming that when it comes out the editor works)?

Yes, exactly.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 18:04

FuSchnick: Jun 6, 2001; Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived...

Shalinor posted:

Being one step away from devnet access, don't quite know this yet - would the XBONE and WiiU toolsets at least be built to adapt, as C++11 becomes a thing over the next half decade years? Or is it actually likely that they'll be frozen, features-wise, meaning Microsoft has effectively locked C++11 usage down for another decade or so?

(PS4, I assume, is good - though the same question would apply for C++13 I suppose)

You can use C++/CX on Xbone, which (I think?) is compatible with C++11. As for adaptability, it is always possible, but it is more a matter of how important is it versus limited resources for new feature development.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 18:23

emoticon: May 8, 2007

leper khan posted:

I just started working in C++ at a publisher modernizing their SDK, haven't used it since college. The lead was hit by a bus on the 405, and he probably wont be back for another couple weeks. Do any of you have recommendations on how I can convince the 'senior' engineers that thread safety matters? You guys all use threads, right?

If they are trying to modernize their SDK, then they should make it multithreaded because it's not 1996 anymore.

NinjaShteve posted:

I don't want to do anything other than games. It's something I really need. I don't care what it takes to do it, I just need to know where to start building.

Are you saying you need to make games or are you saying you need a job making games?

Because if it's the latter, be prepared for the possibility that you'll be working on Barbie Horse Adventures for the rest of your life rather than Halo.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 19:06

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 07:46

NinjaShteve: Apr 28, 2010

emoticon posted:

Are you saying you need to make games or are you saying you need a job making games?

Because if it's the latter, be prepared for the possibility that you'll be working on Barbie Horse Adventures for the rest of your life rather than Halo.

The former. I do need a professional career making games, and I could swallow the bitter pill of making Barbie 2: Electric Bugaloo for a while, but it would only serve to fund my independent work to eventually make something I wanted to make or get in with a studio already making stuff I'd want to make.

# ? Jun 23, 2013 19:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Game Jobs Megathread: Wear clean underwear to avoid the smellz.

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