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Quine Connoisseur posted:The 13" update that's been floating around probably won't be significantly faster than the new MBAs.  Which doesn't necessarily clear things up since the HD5000 one there (4650U) is listed with the same max clock as the 4258U, while the 4558U adds another 100mhz. Maybe it's another random i5 vs i7 thing. And about the TDP, I think the current processors the 13" MBPs use are 35-37W, so moving to 28W alone should be a nice savings on top of whatever other magic Haswell energy saving features.
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Jun 23, 2013 02:31
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japtor posted:Well there's this: Yeah, Intel's differentiation on the Iris/HD5000 thing is pretty weird when you account for the lower clocked 28W chips and the higher clocked 15W ones. I'm not saying that they'll be neck-and-neck or anything though, it just seems to me like that particular configuration of the 13" MBP probably wouldn't be much faster than the MBA. If they manage to get around the same kind of battery life out of the MBP though it would probably be a better buy for people that want a little bit more performance. As far as energy saving goes, Mavericks actually does have a pretty big impact on battery life too. I threw it on my old mid 2008 MBP and the estimated battery life went from like ~3 hours on 10.8 to like 4:15 on 10.9. I've been playing around with my new MBA and haven't actually tested that though 
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Jun 23, 2013 03:41
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Mu Zeta posted:Every laptop model from every company is due for an update any day. You'll lose out on significantly longer battery life. I'm sure there's no real way of knowing, but is it likely to be soon or a few months type of a thing? I'm hurting pretty bad having no access to a computer and I desperately want to just get one now, but would likely get the best deal if I waited. I dunno. Any chance it'll be in the next month or so?
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Jun 23, 2013 04:58
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redcheval posted:I'm sure there's no real way of knowing, but is it likely to be soon or a few months type of a thing? I'm hurting pretty bad having no access to a computer and I desperately want to just get one now, but would likely get the best deal if I waited. I dunno. Any chance it'll be in the next month or so? The Mac Book Air is already updated to Haswell, it's just the Retina Pros that are waiting for the next revision. A majority of people would probably be really happy with a Mac Book Air, the only big thing to gain going to a Retina Pro is the much nicer screen.
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Jun 23, 2013 05:20
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etalian posted:The Mac Book Air is already updated to Haswell, it's just the Retina Pros that are waiting for the next revision. Yeah, honestly I'm very tempted to go with the Air because I've got a 27" iMac (just inaccessible for the foreseeable future due to traveling around and working) but I can't tell if it could actually do what I needed. Essentially I do a ton of illustrating/graphic design, so this would mean lots of Creative Suite -- daily use of Illustrator with some Photoshop and InDesign. To a greater extent professionally I do motion graphics with After Effects and some Cinema 4D, which is what I'm concerned about. Honestly since my primary computer for animating and rendering is my iMac, the laptop would function as something to design on while traveling or just out and about. Real estate isn't a huge issue for me so the 13" screen seems like it would be fine and the lower price tag is HUGE for me as the retinas are prohibitively expensive with not as much benefit as would make it really worth it compared to the iMac. I'd love to pull the trigger on a 13" i7 8 gig RAM Air. Is there really a good reason to wait for Pro in this case? I'm just not knowledgable enough to gauge this for certain without some added input, but if not I'd love to snap up an Air as quickly as possible!
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Jun 23, 2013 05:38
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redcheval posted:Yeah, honestly I'm very tempted to go with the Air because I've got a 27" iMac (just inaccessible for the foreseeable future due to traveling around and working) but I can't tell if it could actually do what I needed. I have that configuration MBA and there's some graphical glitches with Photoshop – some tools make the screen flicker like crazy until you switch to something else (usually I just mash G or something to make it stop). I haven't tried most of the Creative Suite though beyond Photoshop, Premiere Pro and After Effects. I haven't run into any issues with those last two though and everything pretty much runs very well.
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Jun 23, 2013 05:46
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For me it's not even Haswell stopping from buying a 13inch MBPr it's that I see no way to configure it with more than 8gb of ram. Not even an option to get it directly from Apple for 4x the market price? I don't understand. I don't want a 15inch laptop. If I had a choice for a smaller retina I wouldn't even want a 13inch. Those MBA screens are rear end. Apple just doesn't really make a laptop for me right now. 
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Jun 23, 2013 06:02
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benisntfunny posted:For me it's not even Haswell stopping from buying a 13inch MBPr it's that I see no way to configure it with more than 8gb of ram. Not even an option to get it directly from Apple for 4x the market price? I don't understand. I don't want a 15inch laptop. If I had a choice for a smaller retina I wouldn't even want a 13inch. Those MBA screens are rear end. Most people don't need more than 8GB of RAM.
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Jun 23, 2013 06:12
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Bag of Sun Chips posted:Most people don't need more than 8GB of RAM. So what? At its price point it should almost be the standard and at the very least a BTO option.
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Jun 23, 2013 06:19
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benisntfunny posted:So what? At its price point it should almost be the standard and at the very least a BTO option. Besides the fact that most people don't need more than 8 gigs of RAM, I'm sure Apple has it's reasons why the older rMBPs don't have it as a BTO option. Space constraints, perhaps? I'm sure it will be an option when they refresh line, assuming it's even possible to fit in the laptop's chassis.
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Jun 23, 2013 06:24
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Bag of Sun Chips posted:Besides the fact that most people don't need more than 8 gigs of RAM, I'm sure Apple has it's reasons why the older rMBPs don't have it as a BTO option. Space constraints, perhaps? I'm sure it will be an option when they refresh line, assuming it's even possible to fit in the laptop's chassis. "Older" rMBPs didn't have >8 GB as an option? I bought a 15" on the day it came out, with 16 gigs BTO. Also it's generally not a matter of space, but of the RAM chips used. Also who cares if "most people don't more than 8 gigs of RAM" if I want more than 8? I would have gotten 16 gigs on the Air if that would have been possible. The CPU can do it. Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 06:36
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redcheval posted:I'm sure there's no real way of knowing, but is it likely to be soon or a few months type of a thing? I'm hurting pretty bad having no access to a computer and I desperately want to just get one now, but would likely get the best deal if I waited. I dunno. Any chance it'll be in the next month or so? Or they'll just do it randomly out of nowhere soon, who knows. etalian posted:The Mac Book Air is already updated to Haswell, it's just the Retina Pros that are waiting for the next revision.
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Jun 23, 2013 09:27
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japtor posted:Well pure speculation points at them possibly waiting for TB2 which (as far as anyone knows) is a late year thing, like October-November. Otherwise the 13" that showed up in Geekbench was running 10.9, so they could just be waiting on that to get finished, which would be "Fall"...which I guess would also be around the same timeframe as TB2. If the past is any indication, they've never waited with hardware releases for any OS release in the last few years, but definitely and all the time for CPU and related hardware releases. There have been Apple laptops coming out within a week of Sandy Brige / Thunderbolt, Ivy Bridge and Haswell. I'd guess that at least the 15" rMBP release will coincide with TB2 in order to be regarded as the flagship.
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Jun 23, 2013 10:52
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gucci void main posted:
Book another appointment, and hope for a different Genius. If you get another guy who isn't sure of what's going on, tell him to run the Image Persistence Test. Let him know he'll find it if he boots to AST, and it's underneath the MRI option (from memory it's 4th on the list).
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Jun 23, 2013 12:06
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flavor posted:"Older" rMBPs didn't have >8 GB as an option? All rMBP's have had 8Gb of RAM as standard, even the 13" 16 is the BTO, and only on the 15"
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Jun 23, 2013 12:08
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Yeast posted:All rMBP's have had 8Gb of RAM as standard, even the 13" That was a rhetorical question. Like I said, I have the very first rMBP model and that had a 16 GB option, so the statement was wrong. For the 13" it's also wrong, because no distinction in BTO memory exists in options between the different versions of that model. Additionally, depending on how you define "standard", one thing that has changed is that the higher 15" model now comes with 16 GB standard. So it's also wrong to say that was never standard. I'd define what non-BTO models come with as standard. e: It should probably be mentioned that it's possible to put 16 GB in regular MBPs, it's just not a BTO option, but third party RAM. Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 12:26
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flavor posted:Like I said, I have the very first rMBP model and that had a 16 GB option, so the statement was wrong. They were talking about the 13" model and you're talking about the 15" model.
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Jun 23, 2013 14:44
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zeroprime posted:They were talking about the 13" model and you're talking about the 15" model. No. Read it again. There were general statements about 8 GB and about all rMBPs. I'm not trying to have a semantic debate here, but if this thread is supposed to help people, then it's constructive to post corrections.
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Jun 23, 2013 14:51
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The conversation was in the context of benisntfunny not liking that you could only get 8 gigs of RAM in the 13" MBPr and not wanting to buy a 15" MBPr just to get 16 gigs of RAM, so it just seemed kinda weird for you to jump in telling them you have 16 gigs in your 15". So I had a weird glitch that looks like it cleared itself up with a restart. Every time I closed out an application, the top menubar would disappear until I clicked on the screen. Not even using command spacebar would bring it back up. I hope it doesn't start doing it again.
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Jun 23, 2013 18:02
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Quine Connoisseur posted:I have that configuration MBA and there's some graphical glitches with Photoshop – some tools make the screen flicker like crazy until you switch to something else (usually I just mash G or something to make it stop). I haven't tried most of the Creative Suite though beyond Photoshop, Premiere Pro and After Effects. I haven't run into any issues with those last two though and everything pretty much runs very well. Hmmm yikes. Good to hear that AE runs well though! I don't think I'd need better than that. Anyone have any ideas what the Photoshop glitching could be though? That's a little troubling
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Jun 23, 2013 20:14
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redcheval posted:Anyone have any ideas what the Photoshop glitching could be though? That's a little troubling
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Jun 23, 2013 20:16
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Well, if the updates aren't going to happen until probably October, I might as well get an MBP right away. Last I was in the store I couldn't see a huge difference between Retina and non-Retina, are there any particularly non-obvious advantages to it over standard screens?
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Jun 23, 2013 21:30
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You might consider viewing angles. The IPS on the Retina is viewable at wider angles so you spend less time finding the sweet spot.
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Jun 23, 2013 21:41
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Pollyanna posted:Well, if the updates aren't going to happen until probably October, I might as well get an MBP right away. Last I was in the store I couldn't see a huge difference between Retina and non-Retina, are there any particularly non-obvious advantages to it over standard screens? Keep in mind, the Retina models are significantly thinner and lighter. They also have larger-capacity batteries, although that mostly goes to offset the increased power draw of the fancy display.
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Jun 23, 2013 22:00
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With the retina screens you can scale it to higher resolutions for more screen space.
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Jun 23, 2013 22:43
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Immature drivers for a brand new graphics architecture. Intel is infamous for having lovely, unoptimized graphics drivers even on the Windows side. Apple might be the only client that calls them on it and gets them to improve their drivers even if just for the Mac side. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 23, 2013 |
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Jun 23, 2013 23:08
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Pollyanna: rMBPs have better internal airflow than the classic MBPs. On the rMBPs you have two intakes near the front on each side and the air is pushed out the back whereas with the classic MBPs both the intake and outtake are both found in the back.
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Jun 23, 2013 23:12
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redcheval posted:Hmmm yikes. Good to hear that AE runs well though! I don't think I'd need better than that. It seems to me like it has something to do with vsync since the fix for VMware I posted a while back disables it and fixes the issue.
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Jun 23, 2013 23:46
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Those differences certainly sound like a good reason to get a Retina MBP...alright, I think I'll put in an order for a 13in rMBP. Thanks guys!
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Jun 23, 2013 23:58
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Got a 2013 MBA 11inch w/ i5/8GB/256GB and it's getting pretty solidly 9.5 hours of battery. I also bought an i7 MBA that I'm gonna try out for a little while to see what the battery performance is like. If it's negligible, I may just return the i5. I'll post observations here when I get a chance to evaluate them.
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Jun 24, 2013 00:03
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zeroprime posted:The conversation was in the context of benisntfunny not liking that you could only get 8 gigs of RAM in the 13" MBPr and not wanting to buy a 15" MBPr just to get 16 gigs of RAM, so it just seemed kinda weird for you to jump in telling them you have 16 gigs in your 15". None but the most dedicated readers will read some context going 17 levels of posts back. Some people are asking questions that are addressed nearly verbatim in the OP, do you really think they're going to go through a detailed discussion of anything and pick up on some implied context, if any? And besides, there were still some generalized statements in there that were in no way intended to be limited to the 13" MBPr, such as "All rMBP's have had 8Gb of RAM as standard" and "Most people don't need more than 8GB of RAM". And that weird statement about "older rMBPs", would have been even more wrong about 13" rMBPs, because those never had their RAM options change. Even if the context would have been just about 13" rMBPs, there were still some wrong statements about 15" ones in there that someone could have gotten a wrong impression from. These aren't conversations between two focused people that take place in the space of five minutes. These are group conversations going on over several days, with multiple threads and asides. New people are coming in. Context, if even intended, gets lost.
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Jun 24, 2013 01:41
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I pitch a tent every time I look at my retina screen. The difference is staggering. I have a huge monitor I could use with it, but it's difficult to go away from the sweet sweet retina.
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Jun 24, 2013 04:56
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japtor posted:Well there's this: It's all about TDP in the end. Consider the Air CPUs and the probable 13" Haswell rMBP CPUs: Air i5 (4250U): 15W TDP / 1.3-2.6GHz CPU / 0.2-1.0GHz HD 5000 Air i7 (4650U): 15W TDP / 1.7-3.3GHz CPU / 0.2-1.1GHz HD 5000 rMBP i5 (4258U): 28W TDP / 2.4-2.9GHz CPU / 0.2-1.1GHz Iris 5100 rMBP i7 (4558U): 28W TDP / 2.8-3.3GHz CPU / 0.2-1.2GHz Iris 5100 Sandy/Ivy/Haswell all have a built-in power manager which shifts power allocation between the CPU cores and GPU on the fly, capping total power at rated TDP. It restricts power use by adjusting clocks and voltages. The 28W chips have almost 2x the power budget, so the power manager never needs to clock the CPU way down, which you can see reflected in the specs. It also means that in real world situations with the GPU under load, the GPU will be able to clock much faster. That's why the 28W chip GPUs get to be called "Iris 5100" even though the specs look nearly identical to HD 5000. The Haswell MBAs should bench close to the Haswell 13" rMBP under loads where the graphics processor doesn't have much to do, which lets the CPUs stay close to max clock rates. But with the GPU loaded, I expect the rMBP to win by substantial margins. BobHoward fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 07:07
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I'm not going to be doing much gaming at all on my laptop, and the most it'll need to do is run Photoshop, support Netflix, and hold my stuff. Is it fine if I go with the really base rMBP option? e.g. 2.5 GHz dual core i5, no optical drive (good riddance), 13in screen. $1.5k is already pushing it, and I don't think I'm going to have to upgrade memory and certainly won't upgrade the graphics card. Is the inability to replace parts in an rMBP that big a deal, or can I just ignore it?
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Jun 24, 2013 10:50
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Pollyanna posted:I'm not going to be doing much gaming at all on my laptop, and the most it'll need to do is run Photoshop, support Netflix, and hold my stuff. Is it fine if I go with the really base rMBP option? e.g. 2.5 GHz dual core i5, no optical drive (good riddance), 13in screen. $1.5k is already pushing it, and I don't think I'm going to have to upgrade memory and certainly won't upgrade the graphics card. Is the inability to replace parts in an rMBP that big a deal, or can I just ignore it? I own and love the entry level 13" rMBP. Only niggle is the 128Gb Flash. With more than basic apps, and some content, it fills awfully quickly. If you're mainly cloud based (spotify, netflix etc) it shouldn't be a big issue, but something to be aware of.
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Jun 24, 2013 12:34
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Pollyanna posted:I'm not going to be doing much gaming at all on my laptop, and the most it'll need to do is run Photoshop, support Netflix, and hold my stuff. Is it fine if I go with the really base rMBP option? e.g. 2.5 GHz dual core i5, no optical drive (good riddance), 13in screen. $1.5k is already pushing it, and I don't think I'm going to have to upgrade memory and certainly won't upgrade the graphics card. Is the inability to replace parts in an rMBP that big a deal, or can I just ignore it? You're setting yourself up for a lot of hand-wavy comments and anecdotes about what's supposedly enough for everybody and the like. Good thing you certainly won't upgrade the graphics card because there's no card in there to upgrade and you can't upgrade the GPU and the CPU that it's a part of either. It sounds a little bit like you haven't even hit up the Apple site or Wikipedia and are expecting enlightenment from this thread based on scant information you're giving. Whether or not the inability to upgrade the rMBP is a big deal depends on your usage and how long you're planning to keep the thing, one of which we know very little and the other we know nothing of. Extrapolating into the future I'd certainly consider 8 GB somewhat confining in my main computer 2-3 years from now. I'd say this: CPU needs depend on what you need to do with Photoshop and your performance expectations, memory needs depend on what you want to do simultaneously, and SSD needs on what "your stuff" is. Also maybe if you have an Apple Store nearby, try it out.
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Jun 24, 2013 12:43
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As far as all this 28W vs 35W stuff, are there no 35W Haswell chips? Has Apple hinted that they are going to move to the 28W chips? My thinking is that they wouldn't go with a different wattage chip because they'd have to re-configured the internal power system of the MBP, right? Or would it not be such a big deal since they're going down? Or would they have to re-do everything with a new motherboard design for Haswell anyway? I just wonder if they would spend the money when they didn't have to. Gnomedolf posted:I pitch a tent every time I look at my retina screen. The difference is staggering. I have a huge monitor I could use with it, but it's difficult to go away from the sweet sweet retina. Yeast posted:I own and love the entry level 13" rMBP.
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Jun 24, 2013 13:09
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I ordered two 2013 Macbook Airs: 11" - i7/8GB/256GB 13" - i7/8GB/256GB When I play any games (even small/light ones), the fan turns on within 60 seconds and it gets very, very loud and the bottom is just below too hot to touch. Is it because of the i7 upgraded CPU?
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Jun 24, 2013 13:23
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It's because you're pegging the CPU.
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Jun 24, 2013 14:03
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Will Apple replace my battery for free if I bring it in while still under warranty? I had a service battery warning a couple weeks ago, but it went away after I plugged in my Macbook Air. Running coconutBattery Online I can see that my battery capacity is far below the average capacity.
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Jun 24, 2013 15:12
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