|
beefart posted:I was out of town for the weekend so I'm going to start work on the Norse pagan LP tonight after work. I've played a lot of the Norse rulers at the main start dates and found which ones are feasible starts for a tutorial but are challenging enough that all the pagan gimmicks should be used in order to succeed. So, my two finalists: My advice would be to NOT necessarily pick something very challenging, but something a bit more moderate/easy for someone who hasn't played a pagan before. In the same vein, I'd start in 867, because 1066 Norse starts seem more like challenge/gimmick games. I thin kthe idea is to give someone a guide they can get through semi-reliably, without necessarily needing to rely on luck or lots of skill. 
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 07:29 |
|
|
Yeah, pick something on the easier scale. I'm doing Ireland, for fucksakes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:12
|
|
|
If you start as Harald Fairhair of Ostlandet you can show off the subjuguation mechanic for pagans by conquering the whole of Norway. Afterwards you can raid, and try to fight Sweden and Denmark for their holy sites to reform Norse. I find Harald to be probably one of the best viking starts, as you get a young leader with great stats, and a lot of lone counties you can gobble up without outside help in the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
Fintilgin posted:My advice would be to NOT necessarily pick something very challenging, but something a bit more moderate/easy for someone who hasn't played a pagan before. In the same vein, I'd start in 867, because 1066 Norse starts seem more like challenge/gimmick games. I thin kthe idea is to give someone a guide they can get through semi-reliably, without necessarily needing to rely on luck or lots of skill. That was one of my biggest concerns and it's also probably the reason why I'm leaning more towards the Hammers, since if played correctly they end up as jarls of Skane fairly quickly and have a reasonable chance to get the Danish throne. Mostly, I want an opportunity to show off prepared invasions, which are not really doable with a fast-blobbing start like the Loðbrok children or Fairhair. EDIT: actually on second thought, considering that it's a tutorial, Fairhair is probably a better idea, and I'll just mention the prepared invasions in passing for the sake of simplicity. Also it's definitely a better start for explaining subjugations. beefart fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jun 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:17
|
|
|
GrossMurpel posted:I thought diplomatic education was the best? It is for pretty much any realm where vassals matter. Diplomacy makes it easier to placate vassals, who as a result pay you more taxes/give more levies since they don't hate you. It also makes stabbing easier since you can convince everyone that yes indeed you need to murder 8 children in rapid succession so that the emperor can inherit some random internal duchy for pretty borders. Even if it didn't do those things, it makes those first 5ish years after succession lot less dangerous. With a diplo heir and proper vassal management (stab the gently caress out of ambitious/envious kings) you can reign over an empire with a dozen kingdom vassals and never suffer an independence revolt. They are too busy holding your cups and murdering children in your name. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jun 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:19
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:If you start as Harald Fairhair of Ostlandet you can show off the subjuguation mechanic for pagans by conquering the whole of Norway. Afterwards you can raid, and try to fight Sweden and Denmark for their holy sites to reform Norse. Yeah I agree with picking fairhair since out of all the 'major' viking starts hes probably the hardest of them all. Norway has a bunch of land but your holdings in general suck with a bunch not even getting the chance of building all three starting holdings. That and your uncle will almost always plot to ursurp your title as soon as you start. Edit: Also I forgot to mention that fighting sweeden or denmark as norway seriously sucks hard unless you went and prepared invasion some european kingdom to support your conquest.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:28
|
|
|
You could try the Norse count in Dublin for the Norse Pagan playthrough. You can show off raiding mechanics through both neighboring counties and seaborne raids, how powerful Pagan CBs are with the Conquest CB vs the single-county Irishmen and eventually a Prepared Invasion of Scotland since the entirety won't go beyond the holding limit, and plenty of blot fodder since everyone but Ivar the Boneless is Catholic. ADD: Also, break free from Ivar once he loses his bonus troops and subjugate him/his vassals to show off that CB.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:28
|
|
|
beefart posted:That was one of my biggest concerns and it's also probably the reason why I'm leaning more towards the Hammers, since if played correctly they end up as jarls of Skane fairly quickly and have a reasonable chance to get the Danish throne. Mostly, I want an opportunity to show off prepared invasions, which are not really doable with a fast-blobbing start like the Loðbrok children or Fairhair. You must have less than 40 holdings to use the prepared invasion mechanic. Norway has exactly 41 holdings in 867. You can just leave out the two northernmost counties and form the Kingdom, they are of your culture and religion, they are your de-jure vassals and two ranks below you, so they will basically always accept an offer of to become your vassals (after you used the prepared invasion). Haraldr Fairhair is a very good choice as a tutorial I think.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:57
|
|
|
Either Norway or Sweden works. Get the become king ambition and form the kingdom right at the minimum amount. That gives you the prestige you need to call an invasion on Germany or Frisa. After declaring the invasion offer vasalization to any noise that haven't been blobbed up yet as a prepared invasion won't cancel if you go over forty counties. Then use the subjugation CB to take over either Norway or Denmark. You can conquest the Finnish countries without any trouble and get the Scandinavian empire within one lifetime, assuming you don't die in battle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:You must have less than 40 holdings to use the prepared invasion mechanic. Norway has exactly 41 holdings in 867. You can just leave out the two northernmost counties and form the Kingdom, they are of your culture and religion, they are your de-jure vassals and two ranks below you, so they will basically always accept an offer of to become your vassals (after you used the prepared invasion). Haraldr Fairhair is a very good choice as a tutorial I think. Fairhair it is then. Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
So as a Muslim leader, how do I best control a vast empire without overflowing in decadence?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:13
|
|
|
Remember that after you form Norway and declare your invasion you can absorb any non-duke counties that are noise and touch your empire thought the offer vassal. Out is a great way to prevent Sweden from getting enough land to form the kingdom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:13
|
|
|
SERPUS posted:So as a Muslim leader, how do I best control a vast empire without overflowing in decadence? Gift titles to family members with no kids and the assassinate them so you get the titles back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:14
|
|
|
Is therr anyway to play as a trade republic that isn't already on the map at the start dates?
FairyNuff fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:17
|
|
|
For those who enjoy a truly challenging start, hit up Dyre in Kiev in 867. You start off as a Duke with 1 county and two vassal counts and you're unlikely to have the money or troops to reliably revoke their counties. On top of that, there's usually a 50/50 chance you'll get chain DoW'ed by all your pagan neighbors within months of game start, which you'll never be able to repel. You can try swearing fealty to the Magyar King, but if you start expanding too quickly/the King is a dick, he'll gleefully slap you around. Good fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:20
|
|
|
Geokinesis posted:Is therr anyway to play as a trade republic that is already on the map at the start dates? There's a tab on the start screen, on the people of interest part, for finding Republics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:24
|
|
|
Just a thought, but Haraldr Fairhair (Yngling) is one the few rulers whose dynasty would still be important in 1066. The others are of course Rurik, the Abbasids and Hashimids in Arabia, King Almos Arpad of the Magyars/Hungary, the House Cisse ruler in Ghana, the Bagriatoni King of Georgia and Björn "Ironside" af Münso of Uppland.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:25
|
|
|
Bloodly posted:There's a tab on the start screen, on the people of interest part, for finding Republics. Sorry I mistyped and meant one that isn't a default one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:31
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Just a thought, but Haraldr Fairhair (Yngling) is one the few rulers whose dynasty would still be important in 1066. The others are of course Rurik, the Abbasids and Hashimids in Arabia, King Almos Arpad of the Magyars/Hungary, the House Cisse ruler in Ghana, the Bagriatoni King of Georgia and Björn "Ironside" af Münso of Uppland. 1066 Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jun 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:35
|
|
|
Any republics that are not listed on that tab are non-merchant republics, which happens when a republic isn't coastal. Non-merchant republics are currently non-playable. However, through console commands and some finagling with titles, you can force any coastal duchy to become a merchant republic if you can get a local city's mayor to become a count and then a duke.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:35
|
|
|
There's a steam guide that walks you through turning any coastal mayor into a merchant republic using console commands- http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121046717 It's very simple. I had a fun game as a Welsh merchant republic one time. Though unfortunately you can't play with a custom ruler this way, you are stuck with whatever mayor is there already.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:58
|
|
|
Geokinesis posted:Is therr anyway to play as a trade republic that isn't already on the map at the start dates? If you give a mayor a duchy he founds a republic (or so I have been told, haven't tried it). The mayors county also needs to be on the coast.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:15
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Just a thought, but Haraldr Fairhair (Yngling) is one the few rulers whose dynasty would still be important in 1066. The others are of course Rurik, the Abbasids and Hashimids in Arabia, King Almos Arpad of the Magyars/Hungary, the House Cisse ruler in Ghana, the Bagriatoni King of Georgia and Björn "Ironside" af Münso of Uppland. I believe the Capetians are around in 867 - I think they own the Duchy of Anjou (but no counties in it) and some random counties in the Duchy of Burgundy. The Premyslids (Dukes of Bohemia in 1066) are counts of Prague in 867. Those are the only two I've spotted so far.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:40
|
|
|
So I have a question or two...again. What does it mean to have "The Wrong Government Type?" This guy I promoted to own a county is all mad that its the "Wrong Government Type". What does that mean? Why are some of my Dukes mad that they don't have a county? I have a Duke that has 3 counties, a pretty substantial holding, and he's mad he's not the leader of a particular county. Well he's the DUKE of that county, why is he pissed off he isn't the leader of that one county? Its in his duchy, why mad!? It's killing me. How long can I generally raise a levy before they start hating me?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:44
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:So I have a question or two...again. The same used to be true for church vassals as well, I believe, but at some point that got changed so they don't mind being part of a feudal structure. Jastiger posted:Why are some of my Dukes mad that they don't have a county? I have a Duke that has 3 counties, a pretty substantial holding, and he's mad he's not the leader of a particular county. Well he's the DUKE of that county, why is he pissed off he isn't the leader of that one county? Its in his duchy, why mad!? It's killing me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:52
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:So I have a question or two...again. Vassals that have a city or church as their primary holding instead of a castle won't like you as much. quote:Why are some of my Dukes mad that they don't have a county? I have a Duke that has 3 counties, a pretty substantial holding, and he's mad he's not the leader of a particular county. Well he's the DUKE of that county, why is he pissed off he isn't the leader of that one county? Its in his duchy, why mad!? It's killing me. Click on the coat of arms that is his duchy, and tick the "De Jure" box in the top right - the counties that are De Jure are ones he'll want to control. You can make him not mad by either giving him the county if you own it, or using the "Transfer Vassal" option in the Diplomatic Menu and selecting whichever dude owns the county. quote:How long can I generally raise a levy before they start hating me? I think the "liege has raised levies too long" penalty kicks in after two months, and rises every week after that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:53
|
|
|
"Wrong Government Type" means that their liege is of the wrong type. For example Feudal Counts (owns castle) will dislike it if their duke is a bishop. Dukes aren't interested in holding counties, they are interested in holding (either directly or as vassals) the counties that de jure belong to their title. If you or another Duke holds it, it's not part of his domain. I think you can have them raised for 24 days before the first modifier appears and then its -1 dislike for each 12 days. So after 48 days it'll be -3.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:53
|
|
|
Does anyone have any tips for the Ivar the Boneless start with the CK2+ mod? Seems they shrunk his army down to 3k, and combined with the mechanic the mod introduces that smaller counties have way higher levies, this seems to make this invasion almost impossible, at least as long as you can't ask the other AI armies to follow you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:55
|
|
|
Is there a console command to end a plot (or do I have to edit my save)? In CK2+ I started a plot to fabricate an evidence of treason, and it ended successfully, but it's still there on the intrigue window. This is what I see on my intrigue window:  And the king already has the -50 opinion modifier on him: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:08
|
|
|
Well, I have always held onto my main initial Demesne. I'm the king, don't I get to keep one county? If I don't, what do I have control over? I want to make sure I can raise an army on my own and not rely on vassals to like me. I think that one guy IS a mayor I made into the leader of a County. Time to relieve him of duty then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:13
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:Well, I have always held onto my main initial Demesne. I'm the king, don't I get to keep one county? If I don't, what do I have control over? I want to make sure I can raise an army on my own and not rely on vassals to like me. Yeah as King you should hold on to a Duchy or two (or un-duchied counties) as your personal demense, If you have a vassal who is a de jure Duke of a county you control, he'll hate you forever. God forbid if you have multiple counties that should be his!
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:18
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:Well, I have always held onto my main initial Demesne. I'm the king, don't I get to keep one county? If I don't, what do I have control over? I want to make sure I can raise an army on my own and not rely on vassals to like me. The basic rule is to own two duchies personally, and have your demense be entirely within that de jure territory. Your dukes will want full control over the titles they're given, and will dislike you a little more for each county they're missing. Just that one "wrong government" penalty for the grand mayor isn't necessarily cause to revoke the whole county, though! Having a trade republic (coastal duchy with a mayor in charge) as a vassal can be very lucrative, but you'll have to deal with the penalty to do it. Keep him happy with honorary titles and the like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:19
|
|
|
marktheando posted:There's a steam guide that walks you through turning any coastal mayor into a merchant republic using console commands- http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121046717 It's very simple. I had a fun game as a Welsh merchant republic one time. Though unfortunately you can't play with a custom ruler this way, you are stuck with whatever mayor is there already. Actually you can work around that. Make a custom ruler in the area you want and start the game, save and resign. Go into the save game but as a different character. Use console commands to: 1) give the custom character a city holding in his own county(console give_title b_cityname charID 2) give the county title to someone else(I usually just pick a secondary baron in the county), this will make the custom char into solely a mayor. 3) give the now mayor custom char the county title, this will make his city holding a grand city. 4) give the custom char the duchal title, making a republic. Then save the game, exit and load the save picking your new patrician custom character.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
You can also use "play <char-id>" to switch between characters without even having to go back to the main menu. Be careful not to jump back to a guy who's mayor of a grand city but has not yet been granted a duchy, because it'll end your game right then and there. Plus you can also use it to manipulate wars so you can have an independent merchant republic in whichever province you like. Like today I was setting up an independent Isle of Man as a trade republic, went to war for independence and jumped to the other guy to have him immediately surrender. The command is, as far as I know, pretty stable. But if you're on a slow PC and you're changing from, say, a norseman to a Christian, it can take a while to reload the graphics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:29
|
|
|
Bah I give up. No matter how happy I make them, they still call me a pretender (even though EVERYONE ELSE LOVES ME) and invade with 3 times the troops the rest of the entire island can muster. It's total bullshit and totally turns me off to the game. Where the hell is he getting this massive army.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
Rincewind posted:Also, is there anything like CK2+'s gender equality module for the base game? I want to try vanilla to get acquainted with the many, many DLC expansions I've missed before I plunge into CK2+, but I've been totally spoiled by playing as Dorne in the AGOT mod. Enable just the Gender Equality mod, and then copy the job_* event files from the base ck2+ (so women can trigger the various job events). It'll work perfectly, and appears to be fully save compatible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:42
|
|
|
drat, King of East Francia subjugated me and took my titular kingdom (Bavaria, about 20 years after I conquered Bohemia). Well starting the separatist faction to secede and get my crown back. Sorry cousin, you don't mess with BAVARIA!
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
marktheando posted:There's a steam guide that walks you through turning any coastal mayor into a merchant republic using console commands- http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121046717 It's very simple. I had a fun game as a Welsh merchant republic one time. Though unfortunately you can't play with a custom ruler this way, you are stuck with whatever mayor is there already. You can use simple console commands to make anyone a merchant republic. I made a ruler designed count of Gotland, switched to another dude in Sweden with the "play" command, took my created guy's title with the "give_title" command, gave him the city in gotland, then the county, then the duchy. Boom custom Merchant Republic. edit: soundly beaten
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:Bah I give up. No matter how happy I make them, they still call me a pretender (even though EVERYONE ELSE LOVES ME) and invade with 3 times the troops the rest of the entire island can muster. It's total bullshit and totally turns me off to the game. Where the hell is he getting this massive army. So is someone declaring a pretender war on you? That doesn't mean you are a pretender, it means that someone else has a strong claim to your primary title. Is the claimant from inside or outside your realm?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 07:29 |
|
|
Jastiger posted:Bah I give up. No matter how happy I make them, they still call me a pretender (even though EVERYONE ELSE LOVES ME) and invade with 3 times the troops the rest of the entire island can muster. It's total bullshit and totally turns me off to the game. Where the hell is he getting this massive army. Assassinate the pretender. Or let them take over and plot revenge from inside the realm.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 23:52
|
|