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This is probably not the right thread for this, how many people use a Mac vs. a PC to run Live, specifically with regards to external hardware sequencing? I've been using a Macbook for years and I'm kind of tempted to build my first desktop since 2007 or so and I'm not sure if I should switch my production environment over to it. I'm mostly concerned with stability, but also I want to make sure that transferring over licenses would be easy (Cubase, Live, Komplete, plus a few VSTs which obviously will be varying degrees of easy/hard) as well as how hard it would be to jump between a PC and Mac environment.
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May 22, 2013 00:10
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:This is probably not the right thread for this, how many people use a Mac vs. a PC to run Live, specifically with regards to external hardware sequencing? I've been using a Macbook for years and I'm kind of tempted to build my first desktop since 2007 or so and I'm not sure if I should switch my production environment over to it. I'm mostly concerned with stability, but also I want to make sure that transferring over licenses would be easy (Cubase, Live, Komplete, plus a few VSTs which obviously will be varying degrees of easy/hard) as well as how hard it would be to jump between a PC and Mac environment. Live + Komplete were pretty effortless to switch platforms and most everything else these days is too (and most licenses let you install on on 2 or 3 machines as long as you're not using them simultaneously). Stability is decidedly better under MacOS in my experience. If you're shopping for a new box to integrate with hardware synths, you should consider rack mounting a Mac Mini. h_double fucked around with this message at 00:51 on May 22, 2013 |
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May 22, 2013 00:32
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h_double posted:Stability is decidedly better under MacOS in my experience. Counterpoint: I've can count how many times Live has crashed on one hand on Windows 7.
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May 22, 2013 02:46
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Oldstench posted:Counterpoint: I've can count how many times Live has crashed on one hand on Windows 7. Live itself was really stable for me under Windows, but there were a handful of plugins that gave me problems. Amplitube + Live was basically unusable for me on Windows (though it worked fine in Reaper) and Kontakt was pretty iffy as well.
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May 22, 2013 03:28
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I've used Live on both Windows and Mac, and both have been relatively stable. Had crashes on both OSs, but I'm pretty sure in nearly all cases it was due to buggy plugins. I never had an issue with transferring VSTs either as long as I had activations left. I never tried moving my iLok based plugins though, so I have no idea if the iLok is multiplatform to begin with or how stuff like Waves would handle the transfer.
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May 22, 2013 20:19
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Say I apply a simple delay to a track. I want the wet (delayed) sound to be in the right channel, but the dry sound to stay put. What's the simplest way to achieve this?
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May 25, 2013 15:39
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Popcorn posted:Say I apply a simple delay to a track. I want the wet (delayed) sound to be in the right channel, but the dry sound to stay put. What's the simplest way to achieve this? Add an effect rack with two tracks: one that is empty for the dry signal and another one for the wet delay that you can then pan.
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May 25, 2013 16:32
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That did it, thanks. Man, I've barely used effect racks yet.
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May 25, 2013 19:24
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I started a Short Course yesterday to teach me the basics of Ableton. I'm now messing around at home with midi pads that I've stolen from my DJing setup and I'm still all 
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May 25, 2013 22:47
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Solus posted:I started a Short Course yesterday to teach me the basics of Ableton. I'm now messing around at home with midi pads that I've stolen from my DJing setup and I'm still all If you have an iPad install TouchOSC and then LiveControl on your desktop and go to town! Extra controller for $5 
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May 27, 2013 20:52
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I'm curious about the Tempo Nudge feature in Ableton. Maybe it's just an acute combination of insomnia and GAS, but I've recently been entertaining the idea of using a platter controller (like a Denon DN-SC2000) to get more of a customizable-remix-deck/live-improvisation feel out of my Live rig. I seem to remember being able to bend the tempo and affect the sync (even with external sync on; convenient to correct for Live's inherent drift) with a knob on my APC40, but I'm wondering how that would translate to a platter controller. Do platter controllers generally just work 'like big knobs', or is there some sort of velocity factor to take into account that would prevent their use as a 'bend' control? EDIT: ... I think I've asked this question before. Man, I need sleep. 
Mister Speaker fucked around with this message at 14:42 on May 29, 2013 |
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May 29, 2013 13:10
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Martytoof posted:If you have an iPad install TouchOSC and then LiveControl on your desktop and go to town! Extra controller for $5 I already have.  I've co-opted my Midi enabled DJ mixer for Input/Output (Native Instruments stuff) and I've got a midi keyboard in transit at the moment and will hopefully arrive next week. We'll see how I go.
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May 30, 2013 12:05
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:This is probably not the right thread for this, how many people use a Mac vs. a PC to run Live, specifically with regards to external hardware sequencing? I've been using a Macbook for years and I'm kind of tempted to build my first desktop since 2007 or so and I'm not sure if I should switch my production environment over to it. I'm mostly concerned with stability, but also I want to make sure that transferring over licenses would be easy (Cubase, Live, Komplete, plus a few VSTs which obviously will be varying degrees of easy/hard) as well as how hard it would be to jump between a PC and Mac environment. I go back and forth between the two and while the overall stability seems to be about the same (that is to say I have never lost a track in 5 years due to a machine fault) the overall experience on the mac is definitely better. CPU power shouldn't be a problem on either platform unless you're doing some seriously wild things and all the other hardware customisability of windows aside, osx has way WAY better handling of plugins and where they go and how they're organised and also has much lower inherent latency, as far as I've been able to tell. Also, and this is purely my experience with a Focusrite interface, windows tends sometimes to take away sound focus from programs at weird times, making you go through some arcane process of 'testing' your sound card to give back, say, VLC or something, access to the audio system. It's pretty bizarre and happens to me even after I switched to windows 8 (don't do this ever)
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May 31, 2013 21:36
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50hz posted:I go back and forth between the two and while the overall stability seems to be about the same (that is to say I have never lost a track in 5 years due to a machine fault) the overall experience on the mac is definitely better. CPU power shouldn't be a problem on either platform unless you're doing some seriously wild things and all the other hardware customisability of windows aside, osx has way WAY better handling of plugins and where they go and how they're organised and also has much lower inherent latency, as far as I've been able to tell. Also, and this is purely my experience with a Focusrite interface, windows tends sometimes to take away sound focus from programs at weird times, making you go through some arcane process of 'testing' your sound card to give back, say, VLC or something, access to the audio system. It's pretty bizarre and happens to me even after I switched to windows 8 (don't do this ever) I have 3 soundcards in my Win 7 machine (on-board mobo/Soundblaster Audigy 2/Ultralite Mk3) and haven't had any problems switching between them or having anything steal focus from whichever soundcard I'm currently using. I can't comment on plugin latency compared to OSX as I've never used it, but I'm curious about the comment "has way WAY better handling of plugins and where they go". My plugins go where ever I want them to. I can move a dll to any subfolder in my main VST folder and rescan and it works.
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May 31, 2013 21:53
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In MacOS, all plugins go in /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins (with subdirectories for AU, VST, etc., and you can create your own folders inside those if you want). It's not a major difference, but it's nice having that specified by the OS so there's never any question as to what goes where.
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Jun 1, 2013 04:16
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h_double posted:In MacOS, all plugins go in /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins (with subdirectories for AU, VST, etc., and you can create your own folders inside those if you want). It's not a major difference, but it's nice having that specified by the OS so there's never any question as to what goes where. I'm not trying to be contrarian here, but is it *really* nice to not have the ability to specify the location where your VSTs go, and is it really that hard to remember where to put VSTs when you install them? I like having all of my audio-related content in one directory so that it's easy to back up. If I had to specify another directory for backup of my VSTs, it wouldn't kill me, but it would definitely irk me. There may be reasons why MacOS is inherently better than Windows for audio work, but this doesn't sound like one of them to me.
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Jun 1, 2013 05:44
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Oldstench posted:I have 3 soundcards in my Win 7 machine (on-board mobo/Soundblaster Audigy 2/Ultralite Mk3) and haven't had any problems switching between them or having anything steal focus from whichever soundcard I'm currently using. I can't comment on plugin latency compared to OSX as I've never used it, but I'm curious about the comment "has way WAY better handling of plugins and where they go". My plugins go where ever I want them to. I can move a dll to any subfolder in my main VST folder and rescan and it works. The reply underneath you is pretty much what I would have said- the fact that OSX decides where to put your plugins and seems to do that universally for all packs I've ever installed makes it much more convenient- you can just click click click through the installer and the next time you open Live your plugins will be there. Obviously if you like to have finer-grained control over where things go then it's not a great help but I find it convenient. As for the other issue I'm really wondering where I keep going wrong, or if other people have has similar experiences; every so often, when I'm finished with Ableton and watch a movie or something in VLC for example, it won't produce a single peeps, iTunes won't even play. The only way to get the system sound to work again is to go into the control panel> sound> and in the list of sound cards choose the saffire, then configure> test. This isn't an Ableton specific problem so I don't want to poo poo up the thread with it, just that this never happened to me when working on osx. If this has never happened to you in windows you can safely ignore it.
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Jun 1, 2013 15:54
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CoreAudio is much cleaner and transparent than the way windows handles audio and MIDI. I haven't used Windows for audio for a long time now, but I remember installing Win7 on my old desktop and still running into silly issues with hot swapping audio and midi interfaces. If I plugged in a new interface, Ableton couldn't see or address it until I closed the application and reopened it. Unplugging an interface with Live open could potentially crash the program. Maybe this is less common with an Audio interface, but on a laptop with 2 USB ports sometimes I want to unplug my keyboard and plug in my drum triggerpad. I know this sounds nit-picky, but having to stop playback and close Ableton is a serious break to my workflow and creativity. Maybe windows 8 has fixed this? I wouldn't know. When I got my macbook pro the first thing I noticed is that Live didn't care about any of this. Swapping MIDI or even unused audio interfaces didn't even interrupt playback, even for a CPU/disk heavy session. Live would even immediately recognize the new devices. What's more, I can open iTunes and play back audio through the same interface that Live is using, even during playback. This was unthinkable when I was running Windows, if Live was using the interface then nothing else could. Similar to what you're describing with VLC, I'm not sure if this is because ASIO is a low level driver separate from Windows WDM, but this was always a concern. As for the location of VST folders, it's pretty easy to manage if you're the only person working with your sessions or if you only have one computer. My problem when using PCs was I was collaborating with other musicians, and even when we had the same plugins sometimes the paths would be different and plugins couldn't be found. Again this is a serious disruption to workflow and creativity. If my buddy has updated a track we're working on and handed it off to me, there's nothing more frustrating than having to spend 15 minutes searching for plugins and getting everything to line up. Or if I would go on a trip with my laptop and create some new ideas, and then take them back to my desktop to mix them and again, plugins can't be found. quote:I'm not trying to be contrarian here, but is it *really* nice to not have the ability to specify the location where your VSTs go, and is it really that hard to remember where to put VSTs when you install them? I like having all of my audio-related content in one directory so that it's easy to back up. If I had to specify another directory for backup of my VSTs, it wouldn't kill me, but it would definitely irk me. I used to keep my own folder structures for EVERYTHING. Music, pictures, documents, plugins, software installers, sample libraries, EVERYTHING. But my time is more and more scarce, and I've started migrating over to letting the OS handle file management of my documents. My backup routine now is to regularly carbon copy my drives in their entirety, and to keep current project in my dropbox folder (which also helps with collaboration). RivensBitch fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 10:06
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RivensBitch posted:CoreAudio is much cleaner and transparent than the way windows handles audio and MIDI. I haven't used Windows for audio for a long time now, but I remember installing Win7 on my old desktop and still running into silly issues with hot swapping audio and midi interfaces. If I plugged in a new interface, Ableton couldn't see or address it until I closed the application and reopened it. Unplugging an interface with Live open could potentially crash the program. Maybe this is less common with an Audio interface, but on a laptop with 2 USB ports sometimes I want to unplug my keyboard and plug in my drum triggerpad. I know this sounds nit-picky, but having to stop playback and close Ableton is a serious break to my workflow and creativity. Maybe windows 8 has fixed this? I wouldn't know. Win 7 here - I don't hot-swap audio interfaces (and can't really think of a reason I would want to) so I can't comment on your first point, but I can swap USB-MIDI keyboards with Live running and have it be recognized with no problems. I'm also able to load up Foobar/Youtube/whatever and swap it between audio cards even while Live is running. RivensBitch posted:As for the location of VST folders, it's pretty easy to manage if you're the only person working with your sessions or if you only have one computer. My problem when using PCs was I was collaborating with other musicians, and even when we had the same plugins sometimes the paths would be different and plugins couldn't be found. Again this is a serious disruption to workflow and creativity. If my buddy has updated a track we're working on and handed it off to me, there's nothing more frustrating than having to spend 15 minutes searching for plugins and getting everything to line up. Or if I would go on a trip with my laptop and create some new ideas, and then take them back to my desktop to mix them and again, plugins can't be found. What are these "other musicians" you speak of? RivensBitch posted:I used to keep my own folder structures for EVERYTHING. Music, pictures, documents, plugins, software installers, sample libraries, EVERYTHING. But my time is more and more scarce, and I've started migrating over to letting the OS handle file management of my documents. My backup routine now is to regularly carbon copy my drives in their entirety, and to keep current project in my dropbox folder (which also helps with collaboration). Diff'rent strokes. I'd lose my mind if I didn't get super-OCD over file placement/folder structures.
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Jun 5, 2013 13:53
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RivensBitch posted:What's more, I can open iTunes and play back audio through the same interface that Live is using, even during playback. This was unthinkable when I was running Windows, if Live was using the interface then nothing else could. Good post. I think this is a pretty important observation and conforms with my own experiences- it's also a serious workflow killer if you're making a sampled tune and just want to play your drums/arrangement in the background while clicking through your library to find something to use. (lazy music making)
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Jun 5, 2013 19:37
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50hz posted:Good post. I think this is a pretty important observation and conforms with my own experiences- it's also a serious workflow killer if you're making a sampled tune and just want to play your drums/arrangement in the background while clicking through your library to find something to use. (lazy music making) Again...I can do this in Windows 7. Do I have magic Windows 7?
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Jun 5, 2013 20:32
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Oldstench posted:Again...I can do this in Windows 7. Do I have magic Windows 7?
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Jun 5, 2013 21:59
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It probably depends on the interface. I can use the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 for Ableton and still have my windows audio going, although it took some messing around in the interface's mixer software.
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Jun 6, 2013 16:15
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Yeah I use a Focusrite Saffire 6 and have no trouble getting audio from any other source while Ableton is running. I suspect the issue is with ASIO drivers, ASIO4All for example is very fussy about making sure its the only thing allowed to make any noise. Its certainly not a Windows 7 issue.
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Jun 6, 2013 21:52
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Blue Screen Error posted:Yeah I use a Focusrite Saffire 6 and have no trouble getting audio from any other source while Ableton is running. I suspect the issue is with ASIO drivers, ASIO4All for example is very fussy about making sure its the only thing allowed to make any noise. Its certainly not a Windows 7 issue. Your last sentence there is at odds with thinking it's the ASIO drivers. You can't separate the two. To run Ableton in Win7, your performance depends on the ASIO drivers. Faulting one or the other doesn't change the fact that this is a variable PC users will have to deal with. Whereas on the mac side of things, core audio makes this seamless no matter what interface you are using.
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Jun 7, 2013 04:07
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I disagree, Microsoft has no control over the implimentation of other companies ASIO drivers, and it had no say in ASIO becoming the standard for PC audio drivers. If other companies can't be arsed to impliment it properly I fail to see how that is a fault with Windows and not the particular manufacturer of the interface. The only driver I personally have ever had this issue with is ASIO4All, which is unsurprising as its somehow magically making ASIO work for cards which it was never planned for. I'm not convinced by the stability of CoreAudio either, I teach music production and the 2 students which have the most crashes/problems during lessons are both Mac users (using onboard sound cards, the one with an interface has no issues). I don't really think stability is linked to operating system at all.
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Jun 7, 2013 10:16
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I'm having a big hard drive clear-out and I've just realised I've never known the difference between an Ableton project and an Ableton live set. Right now I have one Ableton project (named after one song, however that happened) and in it I have millions of Ableton live sets for each of the different songs I've made. Is there a more sensible way to arrange all this stuff?
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Jun 8, 2013 17:17
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I have one project per song, and in that usually a single Live set file (.als), sometimes more when I'm doing a radio length cut for example. I usually collect all and save so that I have all the samples I use for one song in the project folder. That makes it easier to share – just zip the project directory, and it's all in there. Edit: Saving poo poo is counterintuitive as gently caress in Live. You pick a spot outside an existing Live project and save, and it will create a project directory structure. You save inside an existing project, it will save just an als file. wayfinder fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 21:20
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The best thing to do is to save a new project when you start a new track, so everything (samples etc.) will be consolidated under that project folder, then you can save different versions/mixes/etc. as .als files within that project.
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Jun 8, 2013 22:08
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Thanks for the tips. I've got a weird Ableton bug I've googled but not found anything for. The marker in session view (showing where in the track we are) is a beat behind the music. This is really annoying. Has anyone else found this?
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Jun 16, 2013 19:02
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magiccarpet posted:It is really strange they aren't putting out both at once. I used an online coupon (had to call to use it) and got a Push for 15% off from Guitar Center.
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Jun 21, 2013 08:09
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I'm curious as to whether people instinctively like Ableton's interface on first use, if it's something they grow to love or something they just put up with. Mac wise, it's the little things like lack of using OSX's fullscreen mode, despite v9 coming out since Mountain Lion, that give me the sense of dread I get when using Adobe products that feel like ports. I'm hoping it'll go away, but that and feeling like it was designed by someone who loves Star Trek a bit much isn't a great first impression. I loaded Logic 9 side by side with it, and ignoring the fact that it's a totally different approach to making music, Logic is just so much cleaner looking. Ableton looks horribly dated next to it.
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Jun 24, 2013 13:53
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The pHo posted:I'm curious as to whether people instinctively like Ableton's interface on first use, if it's something they grow to love or something they just put up with... Everything's all in a single window. It's streamlined and elegant. (And also skinnable, if you don't like the default colors.) Multi-monitor support suffers because of the single window design, but that Max4Live addon Ultimate Mixer entirely fixed that problem for me. I just upgraded from Cubase 6.5 to Cubase 7, and while 7 has what I feel is an attractive and modern-looking UI, my blood pressure does go up a bit when using it still because WINDOWS, SO MANY WINDOWS.
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Jun 24, 2013 15:26
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I think it's less about layout, and more about method that I'm irked about. For one example, the text rendering is abysmal. One of the best things about using OSX over Windows is small text is so wonderfully readable. The text I'm writing in this window, which is on a 27" screen at 2650x1440 and about 2ft, is totally clear with no effort. I switch to Ableton, and text that's a similar size is really hard to make out in comparison. So it's another case of ignoring how the OS does something and porting their own idea along. Maybe if I was a PC user, this wouldn't be such an issue? The layout is fine, it's just the details are really badly thought out. Software that costs this amount of money should not look like shareware from the 90s, but it does. As I said, hopefully just irks that'll go away with use (as I'll know where everything is without having to stare at icons trying to work out what they do), but if it wasn't for the fact my housemate swears by it I'd probably not go down this path.
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Jun 24, 2013 15:33
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The thing is that every other DAW that came before Live was explicitly based on the metaphor of a physical recording console, which naturally went along with a certain design philosophy. You said it yourself - Live is an entirely different way to to make music, and it necessitated a rethinking of interface design. Live's UI is all about intuitiveness and getting out of your way so you can focus on making music. I understand why people aren't always immediately grabbed by Live's appearance, but my guess is that after you use it a bit more, you'll get it.
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Jun 24, 2013 17:42
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Cyne posted:The thing is that every other DAW that came before Live was explicitly based on the metaphor of a physical recording console [...] Every mainstream sequencer. There were plenty with completely different paradigms, the tracker family for example to name just one.
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Jun 24, 2013 19:23
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wayfinder posted:Every mainstream sequencer. There were plenty with completely different paradigms, the tracker family for example to name just one. Yeah, I was definitely restricting my focus to the more well-known products with that statement, which I probably should have made more clear.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:04
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I still kinda miss Jeskola Buzz's way of doing certain things:  Hard to believe I went from that straight into Live.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:16
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TylerK posted:I still kinda miss Jeskola Buzz's way of doing certain things: Hah, this brings back some memories - I remember screwing around making tunes with a friend of mine in Buzz way back. This was well before I actually really knew anything about what was going on under the hood so it all sounded like garbage of course, but it sure was fun.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:15
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The pHo posted:I'm curious as to whether people instinctively like Ableton's interface on first use, if it's something they grow to love or something they just put up with. Mac wise, it's the little things like lack of using OSX's fullscreen mode, despite v9 coming out since Mountain Lion, that give me the sense of dread I get when using Adobe products that feel like ports. I'm hoping it'll go away, but that and feeling like it was designed by someone who loves Star Trek a bit much isn't a great first impression. I loaded Logic 9 side by side with it, and ignoring the fact that it's a totally different approach to making music, Logic is just so much cleaner looking. Ableton looks horribly dated next to it. I liked Live's UI pretty well when I first starting using it (Live 4 or 5) and I really like the fact it's barely changed since then. Consistency is a good thing, and I like that the focus is workflow and taking best advantage of screen real estate. I agree that text rendering could be a little better, but I do like that the Mac and Windows versions of the app are basically pixel-identical. Again, consistency contributes to a smooth workflow. (You can also change the text size by any percentage in the preferences). Live has always had a full screen mode btw (F11 toggles it), you do lose the menubar at the top but it's nice for live performances and whatnot.
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Jun 25, 2013 06:38
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