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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Probably the best fan reaction gauge would be Reddit? I read /rpg for some reason, but currently Next isn't really a topic of much discussion. It tends to skew towards Pathfinder instead of 4e, but oddly enough Dungeon World has been received warmly and there is a good amount of discussion.
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Jun 22, 2013 06:30
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theironjef posted:I'm strictly asking about the non IC stuff. The stuff set around a table instead of in fantasy land. Generally every time a comic depicts a gaming table there's a total autistic mega nerd, a laid back fat guy nerd, a girl (no other info required) and a DM w/beard. Dresden Codak did a couple strips about a philosophy based D&D game, Dungeons and Discourse, but it's not a regular or ongoing thing. The characters are no weirder than they are in the regular episodes of the strip. http://dresdencodak.com/2006/12/03/dungeons-and-discourse/ http://dresdencodak.com/2009/01/27/advanced-dungeons-and-discourse/
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Jun 22, 2013 07:22
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Okay, on the subject of gaming webcomics there's one I have to give some credit to and that's Weregeek. Weregeek kind of annoys me because, at least the last time I read it, there was a really dumb "background plot" about how geeks were actually some sort of magical creatures of imagination...I mean like in the "Changeling: the Dreaming" sense...being hunted by some ambiguously sinister cell of "norms" and I was never quite sure if it was intended to be literal or metaphorical but there was a distinct undercurrent of "the mundanes just don't understaaaaand us" that I found offputting. But. But to give credit where credit is due, the "main plot" is basically a Typical Gaming Geek comic which is light on the monkey-cheese and doesn't ladle the Central Casting Stereotypes on with a trowel and even stars a gaming group with more than one woman in the main cast as well as featuring other lady gamers as the main group interacts with others during LARPs and such. The viewpoint character is a non-gamer who gets introduced to the group and the general reaction is "Oh hey, you want to game? Awesome, let's get you a sheet and some dice, you want a soda?" instead of "ugh, new people" or "it's time to freak the mundane lol Monty Python Joke." To the best of my recollection it doesn't do much in the way of "man, nerds don't shower lol" or "are there any girls here, I want to do'em" jokes either. So, despite doing some things that kind of make me roll my eyes and despite not being exactly revolutionary as far as nerd humor webcomics go, Weregeek is the closest thing I can think of to a gaming webcomic that doesn't go out of its way to hit every stereotype branch on the cliche tree. I apprehensively recommend it.
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Jun 22, 2013 07:42
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Ulta posted:I read /rpg for some reason, but currently Next isn't really a topic of much discussion. It tends to skew towards Pathfinder instead of 4e, but oddly enough Dungeon World has been received warmly and there is a good amount of discussion. r/dnd has a really thorough mix of editions of d&d as well as pathfinder. There's a lot of 4e discussion. There's also r/dungeonsanddragons, which is a slightly more immature board for it, but it also has a mix of opinions about d&d, though more inflammatory. On the subject of around-table portrayals, does The Gamers count?
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Jun 22, 2013 16:07
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The strip Shamus Young did after DM of the Rings hewed to that dynamic with hilariously total precision. They even introduced A GIRL who had, yes, zero other distinguishing features.
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Jun 22, 2013 23:50
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thefakenews posted:Either way, Rodney Thompson was correct it appears. OK two apologies. Yes, sorry I meant immediate action instead of opportunity action. Where you only get 1 per round (Page 268 of PHB1) Second apology, it was Tom LaPille who said it: http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/blog/2012/06/22/reacting_to_the_reaction
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Jun 24, 2013 02:02
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sebmojo posted:The strip Shamus Young did after DM of the Rings hewed to that dynamic with hilariously total precision. They even introduced A GIRL who had, yes, zero other distinguishing features. Someone should tell that cartoonist that it's OK to use readable fonts, or even the same font, for multiple characters.
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Jun 24, 2013 04:05
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http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130624 Another Monday, another Mearls article. Chock full of doublespeak and stupid argument goodness. Just a few tidbits that stood out: quote:Someone made the point that running low on spells and hit points while in the middle of the dungeon was irritating. Putting the adventure on pause to return to town was disappointing. quote:Let's take alignment as an example. A good number of DMs prefer to leave it out of their campaigns. On the other hand, it's a big part of D&D's identity. We've all seen charts that try to fit different characters from a TV or comic series into the nine alignments. For that reason, we've included alignment as a default part of the game, but we're also committed to severing its ties to any mechanics. Emphasis mine. They flat out acknowledge that very few people use alignment, and flat out remove it from the game mechanics, but still include it because "Legacy". quote:Gen Con also officially kicks off the Sundering—a huge event that reshapes the face of the Forgotten Realms, involving the whole pantheon of gods, many nations, countless individuals, and the fabric of the cosmos itself. You might remember us announcing this last year during the Gen Con Keynote address. To celebrate the launch, make room on your calendar to spend an evening in Baldur's Gate with the "Night with Dungeons & Dragons" Sundering launch party. Kick back with authors, D&D designers, and other industry luminaries for food, drinks, music and adventure. So... how about that Spellplague? Remember how well THAT went over with your current target audience? Either this is going to be just a reset button (99.9% chance of that, I'm guessing) or you're going to gently caress things up even more again.
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Jun 24, 2013 21:50
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Yeah the Sundering is supposed to be a big reset button.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:02
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Ok, that article had a lot of stupid, but before this thread is drowned into a sea of reasonable arguments on why forcing vancian casting and fantasy vietnam as the default is a bad idea, let me say that I really like the change on "detect evil" on the paladins and find it way too forward thinking of Mearls. (I bet it won't make it in the final product)
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Jun 24, 2013 22:10
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ritorix posted:Yeah the Sundering is supposed to be a big reset button. Yeah. At this point, the only question is the scope of the reset. Will it go so far as to undo stuff from the Time of Troubles (the cover of Murder in Baldur's Gate does prominently feature the holy symbol of Bhaal) or just stick with rolling back the Spellplague and its aftermath (just how many of the Companions will return in The Companions?).
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Jun 24, 2013 22:26
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ritorix posted:Yeah the Sundering is supposed to be a big reset button. Crossing my fingers we're resetting to 1372 at the latest, so just after the Silence of Lolth and the Return of the Archwizards (but before like, the terrible handling of the Rage. Although I would take Seiveril's Crusade.) 1359 is also an option that I can see happening, not sure if that would be good or bad (it'd be good for getting back to core Realms, but it would throw out the most popular 10-15 years of the Realms.) edit: Someone also tell me how good/bad The Kraken is. I want to get some but I'm not sure if it's worth buying. Arivia fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 22:27
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Arivia posted:edit: Someone also tell me how good/bad The Kraken is. I want to get some but I'm not sure if it's worth buying. If youre talking about rum, I would recommend buying a bottle. It's not terrible or overpriced.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:38
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Arivia posted:Crossing my fingers we're resetting to 1372 at the latest, so just after the Silence of Lolth and the Return of the Archwizards (but before like, the terrible handling of the Rage. Although I would take Seiveril's Crusade.) Undoing what they did in the 4E realms will be silly, they should just blow up the world. Again. If you are referring to The Kraken rum, it is a solid 5 Yarrs!
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Jun 24, 2013 22:38
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Arivia posted:edit: Someone also tell me how good/bad The Kraken is. I want to get some but I'm not sure if it's worth buying. Are you talking about the rum? It's alright, but nothing to write home about. Honestly with rum, just get a cheap gold rum, because you're likely mixing it with overpowering fruit juices. A big punchbowl full of Zombie is amazing for a barbeque.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:40
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Kraken rum is really good.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:42
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ocrumsprug posted:Undoing what they did in the 4E realms will be silly, they should just blow up the world. Again. As I understand it, the timeline is going forward but the map and gods are going backwards.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:47
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ritorix posted:As I understand it, the timeline is going forward but the map and gods are going backwards. 4E was the first time I was able to get a home game set in FR because they had managed to contain the silliness and Mary Sues. I am pre-lamenting what it is going to look like in 5E, with another pantheon book getting close to the size of the setting book.
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Jun 24, 2013 22:55
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ocrumsprug posted:4E was the first time I was able to get a home game set in FR because they had managed to contain the silliness and Mary Sues. I am pre-lamenting what it is going to look like in 5E, with another pantheon book getting close to the size of the setting book. Neither of those were present in pre-4E FR; and what's the problem with a big pantheon book anyway?
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Jun 24, 2013 23:02
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I originally believed that Forgotten Realms was pretty ridiculous for all of its expanding timeline and long list of gods and Mary Sues. But aren't campaign settings best when you take the good parts and leave the trash on the sidewalk? It seems to me that FR can never get so big or ridiculous that you couldn't just use the stuff you love.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:19
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I'm picturing a DM going through an elaborate mission explanation, then at the last minute saying "Oh, nevermind, Drizzt walks in with the heads of those orcs. We won't need you after all." Actually that sort of thing has happened before, but it happened to the Dark Sun setting back in the TSR days. NPCs from the novel line killed all the major villains and saved the world while the adventure line had characters playing cleanup. By the time the revised setting book was released the world was significantly different and things continued to go downhill from there. That's a case where resetting the timeline really worked out. Actually all the 4e settings were well done with the exception of their first attempt at FR, which was a complete botch IMO.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:20
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Arivia posted:Neither of those were present in pre-4E FR; and what's the problem with a big pantheon book anyway? FWIW, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're "Sundering" Abeir from Toril. Bonus points if all the 4e elements (dragonborn, especially) go to war with the pre-4e elements and lose!
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Jun 24, 2013 23:29
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Tharizdun posted:Are you talking about the rum? It's alright, but nothing to write home about. Honestly with rum, just get a cheap gold rum, because you're likely mixing it with overpowering fruit juices. A big punchbowl full of Zombie is amazing for a barbeque. You're nuts. A moderate/nice dark rum (Myer's is my go-to cheap option), some cola, and some Midori is the best thing you can do with rum.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:35
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ritorix posted:I'm picturing a DM going through an elaborate mission explanation, then at the last minute saying "Oh, nevermind, Drizzt walks in with the heads of those orcs. We won't need you after all." I feel bad for anyone that would play with a DM who pulls this sort of poo poo. Running a setting isn't a license to be a lovely Dungeon Master.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:47
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ritorix posted:Yeah the Sundering is supposed to be a big reset button. The Sword and Laser interview with R.A. Salvatore is pretty loving telling about The Sundering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLf1hBUr9M4 it seems to have been in the planning for some years, apparently pretty much since the spellplague IIRC, it's been a couple of months since I watched the video. Arg, it's only got more depressing in two months without access to SA, and only the WotC echo chamber to read opinion in.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:55
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dwarf74 posted:Other than crushing metaplot, ever-expanding canon, a publishing schedule that would make Sports Illustrated blush, frequent rules expansions for the setting, Mary Sue NPCs, and all-too-active gods? Um... I guess other than that, nothing's wrong with the Realms? It has nice maps? There really hasn't been much of a metaplot for FR. There have been frequent events (particularly in 3e), but with the exception of the Avatar trilogy, players and campaigns aren't dragged into the plot at the expense of their own game. Compare to VtM or Torg, where the materials assumed you wanted to stay in lockstep with the metaplot; FR resources have historically gone the other way and offered players and characters other things to do. (The Current Clack system is basically two years of plot written up as adventure hooks for DMs and players to do what they want with, for example.) Canonicity doesn't have much to do with unplayability; a lot of the Realms' attention has been on events and ideas notable and relevant to games, so it's not like you need to read five pages on orc dialects to play an orc. Ed's been very good about keeping the focus on telling stories and playing good games first, and that's not going to change. Nothing wrong with the quick publishing schedule, especially as the focuses of the Realms often turn up useful details for all games in unexpected places or in different ways. A better publishing schedule (and better books) on the Realms would only be a good thing. There's no Mary Sue NPCs in the Realms. Even Ed's semi-alter egos in Mirt and Elminster have their lumps, failures, and utter weaknesses. And the active gods - excepting the Avatar Crisis, an act of editorial interference - are a selling point for the setting, with active divinities and priesthoods that are actually relevant to characters, campaigns, and their divine portfolios.
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Jun 24, 2013 23:57
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Countblanc posted:You're nuts. A moderate/nice dark rum (Myer's is my go-to cheap option), some cola, and some Midori is the best thing you can do with rum. Dark rum and ginger beer. Best mixed drink ever. I personally like Kraken for my dark and stormies, so by all means go and buy a bottle, Arivia.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:01
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ocrumsprug posted:If you are referring to The Kraken rum, it is a solid 5 Yarrs! Swagger Dagger posted:Kraken rum is really good. Gonna third this, I really like Kraken.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:28
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The Kraken is my favorite rum. Apparently I'm weird about this, but I like to sip rum between beers. I sometimes do the same thing with whisky. I am not a fan of mixed drinks, except for maybe rum and ginger beer, and I find dark rum to be the best for that.
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Jun 25, 2013 00:59
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Rexides posted:Ok, that article had a lot of stupid, but before this thread is drowned into a sea of reasonable arguments on why forcing vancian casting and fantasy vietnam as the default is a bad idea, let me say that I really like the change on "detect evil" on the paladins and find it way too forward thinking of Mearls. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I thought everything in the article was stupid. I like what Mearls says they're going to do with Paladins. It's just that, when you see something like "All of feedback shows people don't like alignment, but we're going to keep it around anyways, and just separate it from any of the mechanics" annoys me. I mean, alignment is the perfect example of something that should be "modular", and would have been a good posterboy for a modular system. "Alignment is a module for D&D that allows you to use alignment in your game if you choose. Included in the module are the rules for what changes in the core set".
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Jun 25, 2013 02:18
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What's more, making alignment a module would've allowed them to try out new and interesting things with alignments. You could've had your basic alignment module (things now have alignment, detect evil and bunch of other alignment-reliant spells now exist) and something where alignment works more like Fate's aspects ("I invoke my good alignment to gain advantage on this roll to kill all the demons") or something even more stupid awesome ("Since I'm fighting demons, I get +GOOD to hit and damage!")
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Jun 25, 2013 02:45
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Also alignment tends to mess with newer players. I have one player who chose "good" in 4E and every time he has a moral decision to make he asks me what the "good" option is. It's endearing but also deeply frustrating because I know he isn't asking himself "What would my character do?" but instead "Which choice is the good one?" and so it actually hurts roleplaying. If alignment exists to guide roleplaying, there are much better ways to do it. But of course it's a legacy mechanic and therefore has to be in there come hell or high water, right? Has any other game design been as burdened by this idea of being true to its predecessors as D&D Next?
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Jun 25, 2013 05:17
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That a thing in cRPG where you get dialogue options like: (good) Rest assured, I'll save the princess! I don't know, this sounds awfully dangerous... Every kingdom tells me this story, what's really going on? (evil) She probably ran off with the dragon because you're all dweebs who deserve to die! [start combat]
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Jun 25, 2013 05:21
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Oh man, I hadn't even thought of newer players who had experience with Bioware-style Paragon/Renegade reputation systems coming into contact with nine-point alignment, that's amazing.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:33
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Kai Tave posted:Oh man, I hadn't even thought of newer players who had experience with Bioware-style Paragon/Renegade reputation systems coming into contact with nine-point alignment, that's amazing. And that's truly what it is. He's a huge Mass Effect fan. That's what we bonded over when we first met.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:36
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Rosalind posted:Also alignment tends to mess with newer players. I have one player who chose "good" in 4E and every time he has a moral decision to make he asks me what the "good" option is. It's endearing but also deeply frustrating because I know he isn't asking himself "What would my character do?" but instead "Which choice is the good one?" and so it actually hurts roleplaying. If alignment exists to guide roleplaying, there are much better ways to do it. But of course it's a legacy mechanic and therefore has to be in there come hell or high water, right? The thing about the alignment system is everyone just projects their own ideas of right and wrong into it and then realizes that everyone has a different idea and it amounts to nothing at best and at worst pointless out-of-character arguments. If you really wanted to explore the nature of good and evil you could just have players do what they think is right and let that lead to conflict or compromise between the characters. What I find so baffling about this is, surely every functioning adult who has ever looked at the alignment system has figured all of this out, right? Heavy Zed fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 05:48
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ritorix posted:As I understand it, the timeline is going forward but the map and gods are going backwards. That's what it sounds like to me as well. In that interview thespaceinvader posted, Salvatore takes credit for the reset, and from his recent novels it sounds like it will revolve around the chosen of various gods, perhaps battling against different primordials. ritorix posted:I'm picturing a DM going through an elaborate mission explanation, then at the last minute saying "Oh, nevermind, Drizzt walks in with the heads of those orcs. We won't need you after all." The Dark Sun adventures aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. Only the first two were directly linked to the novels, and while the PCs are the B team in those, they still do important jobs (saving the civilians and saving the army). The rest take place before the rest of the novels and deal with totally unrelated threats to and hopes for the world. Everything you say in your last paragraph couldn't be more true. Neverwinter really showed what they could and should have done with 4E FR. Arivia posted:There really hasn't been much of a metaplot for FR. There have been frequent events (particularly in 3e), but with the exception of the Avatar trilogy, players and campaigns aren't dragged into the plot at the expense of their own game. Compare to VtM or Torg, where the materials assumed you wanted to stay in lockstep with the metaplot; FR resources have historically gone the other way and offered players and characters other things to do. (The Current Clack system is basically two years of plot written up as adventure hooks for DMs and players to do what they want with, for example.) I love the Realms, and I think you're being too easy on the setting. Those frequent events constitute a metaplot, and Ed's characters do feel like power fantasies. Neither problem is nearly as bad as detractors often make them out to be. You're right that many of the events can drive adventures. Really, aside from El and the other chosen, the setting's major characters aren't terribly overpowered or flawless. Hell, Drizzt gets beat to death by his girlfriend in his latest novel. And as for the Avatar Crisis, every major event in the setting is "an act of editorial interference"; they all exist to explain some change or addition to the setting. And that story set up some of the best and most beloved Realms stories, including probably the most popular D&D video games ever made.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:49
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Going by how most "Paladin does an neutral/evil act that is justified and/or required for the greater good AND SO HE MUST FALL!" BS seems to be from adults and not teenagers/kids... I would say no. Best example of that kind of a choice is "Demon is possessing a baby and has opened a gate to hell that can only be closed by killing the baby. What do you do?" Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:53
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Heavy Zed posted:The thing about the alignment system is everyone just projects their own ideas of right and wrong into it and then realizes that everyone has a different idea and it amounts to nothing at best and at worst pointless out-of-character arguments. If you really wanted to explore the nature of good and evil you could just have players do what they think is right and let that lead to conflict or compromise between the characters. 1). "Roleplayers" and "functional adults" are two circles on the Venn diagram that don't completely overlap. 2). That works only so far as the designers don't shoehorn poo poo into the game like "if you're a Paladin then you can instantly lose all your Paladin powers if you fail to live up to the GM's arbitrary interpretation of what Lawful Good means" or "if you want to be a Monk then you can't be Chaotic because." The system you propose is basically how 4E works, but in 4E alignment is fundamentally "hands off," I think there's like a paragon path or two that actually make use of alignment in a mechanical sense and beyond that it's simply a matter of personal preference. But when you make alignment a Thing then it gives people the impression, and by people I mean players, GMs, and designers, that it should be more than just a bit of character personality shorthand.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:57
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I don't know what you think I'm proposing. The stuff I said about characters having conflict over what's right and wrong is just a thing that happens in stories and also something you can just forego if you decide that's not the kind of game you want to play. I'm saying that any mechanics connected with "alignment" or "morals" or whatever just get in the way of that. I don't really know how you can have dumb bullshit like "favored enemy: human makes you evil" or whatever if you start off with "Hey guys, morality is complicated. Decide for yourself how much your character cares about right and wrong and what that means to them."
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Jun 25, 2013 06:19
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