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I don't manage the Veeam stuff here, but I talked to the guy that does, they moved 350TB over the WAN in like 4 hours. Veeam pulled almost 7x deduplication. Knocked down 350GB to 53.8GB. Pretty neat poo poo, I should learn more about this. The 1.4TB is closer to 450GB of actual data, so we shouldn't have a problem getting this done even overnight.
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Jun 18, 2013 18:28
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fougera posted:I noticed a lot of complaints about Citrix's bugginess and wanted to hear more perspectives on Citrix vs. VMWare vs. Hyper-V. Do you think the bugs and learning curve for Citrix make the other brands a better option overall (understanding that it varies with use cases)? Are there certain things about Citrix you like that the others don't have? Apologies for being vague, I'm trying to learn more about the underlying technology and the business and would rather hear a CIO's/user's opinion rather than read some industry analyst's. Last time I encountered Citrix XenServer was back in version 5.0 and it loving kept me at the office till 4:00AM (My dickhead ex-colleague did some R&D and apparently found that virtualised XenApp servers ran better on XenServer so he migrated our production farm to it and when it fell apart I had to deal with it). So yeah, last time I used XenServer it was a POS. Of course that was ages ago, maybe they've improved things... Edit: my apologies this post isn't really helpful. When I last used XenServer I found that it was really incomplete feature-wise when compared to vSphere. Also their way of handling HA masters/slaves is hosed (At least in version 5.0 it was). Pile Of Garbage fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 18:36
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skipdogg posted:350TB over the WAN in like 4 hours  But yeah, Veeam's compression is pretty good. You can basically throw more cores at the proxies on each side and let 'er rip to saturate a link.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:12
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fougera posted:I noticed a lot of complaints about Citrix's bugginess and wanted to hear more perspectives on Citrix vs. VMWare vs. Hyper-V. Do you think the bugs and learning curve for Citrix make the other brands a better option overall (understanding that it varies with use cases)? Are there certain things about Citrix you like that the others don't have? Apologies for being vague, I'm trying to learn more about the underlying technology and the business and would rather hear a CIO's/user's opinion rather than read some industry analyst's. It's a very big topic so I'm not exactly what type of feedback you're looking for. Everything Citrix does lacks polish, whether it is XenServer, XenApp, or XenDesktop. Sometimes the features make up for it. For example, I would much rather admin a XenApp farm over a Remote Desktop Services farm. I would much rather use XenDesktop than VMware View. On XenServer, I would not say there are any features that make me want to use it over VMware. I would suggest it as more of a low cost alternative. Can you afford the VMware licensing and a SAN that will perform and meet your needs? Great, get VMware and a SAN. Can you not afford both? Get XenServer and a SAN. Do not go the route of VMware and no SAN, because that is dumb. If you own licenses for XenApp and XenDesktop, you can run all the Citrix infrastructure on the Enterprise / Platinum / Whatever version of XenServer that matches your XenApp / XenDesktop licensing. You can technically run all of your infrastructure on it, there is nothing stopping you, but it is not licenses properly. That said, I have never heard of anyone catching any flack for it. XenServer is based on the open source Xen, which is still open source, but Citrix bought a major contributor, XenSource in 2007. XenServer 5.0 was fairly hairy. I felt 5.6 was much better and much more mature. 6.0 was not bad either. I am very disappointed in my experiences with XenServer 6.1, and I have spoken to several Citrix folks who have said they are warning people not to upgrade to 6.1. Not sure if that is official policy or if that has changed with the recent hotfixes. I actually prefer XenServer's pool-based master approach to vSphere's single management server, but I could see arguments for both. All that said, I do not get to dive deep into virtualization every day. My role has always been a jack of all trades. You will definitely find more detailed information if you research it.
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Jun 18, 2013 23:35
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I dunno I still feel View 5.2 (or Horizon) really got a lot of poo poo right. Sure Citrix VDI is easypeasylemonsqueezy to set up but it feels somewhat limited with the amount of things you can do compared to view.
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Jun 19, 2013 01:37
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Corvettefisher posted:I dunno I still feel View 5.2 (or Horizon) really got a lot of poo poo right. Sure Citrix VDI is easypeasylemonsqueezy to set up but it feels somewhat limited with the amount of things you can do compared to view. View has significantly less features than XenDesktop: - XD can do hosted shared and streamed to physical - XenApp > ThinApp - ICA > PCoIP - NetScaler/CAG > Secure Gateway - Personal vDisk > User Data Disks - More supported devices - Citrix Director provides an abundance of more functionality that View isn't even close to providing: Edgesight monitoring/analysis, help desk front end, shadowing, aggregation of desktop data - AppDNA bundled in to help with P2V of apps - Local Apps supported inside VDI seamlessly - XenClient > Local Mode View only has the market share it has because VDI people tend to come from server virt backgrounds and know VMware better than Citrix. I literally can't think of a single thing View can do that XenDesktop cannot. three fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 19, 2013 |
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Jun 19, 2013 05:20
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three posted:I literally can't think of a single thing View can do that XenDesktop cannot.
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Jun 19, 2013 05:27
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Is there any advantage to the vSA? What does it bring to the table that a cheap (Dell Equallogic) SAN doesn't?
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Jun 19, 2013 05:34
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All of this is very informative and I'm taking thorough notes, thank you. It seems fair to say that there's no clear winner at this point and there's a lot of land grab to be had by Citrix or VM. What do you think of their pricing? Are they more or less even or does one stand out as a much better bundled package? I'm also curious to find if anyone has experience with the mobile management side of things. I know the folks at my company (definitely not big, more of a middle market type of environment) are wrestling with the whole BYOD issue now. If its too off base from the thread topic I totally understand and please disregard.
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Jun 19, 2013 06:03
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fougera posted:It seems fair to say that there's no clear winner at this point and there's a lot of land grab to be had by Citrix or VM. No, VMware has won the hypervisor battle, and has owned the market for some time. XenDesktop has is winning the VDI battle, but it's not a blowout. The difference is that VMware is actively pushing View and wants to see their VDI market share expand, while XenServer is probably a loss-leader for Citrix to get their XenApp/Desktop in the door. They'd rather see XA/XD on ESXi than lose a sale by forcing the issue. VMware, on the other hand, doesn't want their stuff running on anything but VMware (in their ideal world). XenServer is Citrix' play to make their XA/XD solution cheaper/easier.
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Jun 19, 2013 07:15
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madsushi posted:No, VMware has won the hypervisor battle, and has owned the market for some time. XenDesktop has is winning the VDI battle, but it's not a blowout. The difference is that VMware is actively pushing View and wants to see their VDI market share expand, while XenServer is probably a loss-leader for Citrix to get their XenApp/Desktop in the door. They'd rather see XA/XD on ESXi than lose a sale by forcing the issue. VMware, on the other hand, doesn't want their stuff running on anything but VMware (in their ideal world). XenServer is Citrix' play to make their XA/XD solution cheaper/easier. Absolutely. Higher tiers of Xd/Xa licensing actually include xenserver in the bundle
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Jun 19, 2013 12:20
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adorai posted:in side by side comparisons, view is better at streaming video. Typically, not something that you really need to leverage in a VDI deployment to it's fullest extent, but still it is one thing that view does better. We compared view and xd before deploying, and xd was better. We tried it on xenserver first, but the lack of vshield pushed us back to esxi. XD7 has improved on HDX/ICA to use 1/2 the bandwidth for video and provide 2x the framerate. Should be released this week.
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Jun 19, 2013 13:42
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madsushi posted:VMware, on the other hand, doesn't want their stuff running on anything but VMware (in their ideal world). Pretty much any company wants to own the world. There has been a push though for VMware products to play well with others, since so many places are running mixed environments. Time will tell if that pans out.
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Jun 19, 2013 17:07
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1000101 posted:re: vCloud and View all working together with nested vSphere:
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Jun 20, 2013 03:11
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Wicaeed posted:Is there any advantage to the vSA? Headaches and terrible performance. Don't use a vSA. We've been fighting with one for a week and a half for a client. I think we're up to 3 open support calls on it, and one of the new guys is losing sleep trying to figure it out. With all the time and effort put into it by now, a SAN would have been well cheaper. Seriously, don't 
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Jun 20, 2013 05:32
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I feel the vSA is going... I like it, actually... WELL poo poo my plans for VMworld fell down most of my "wallet" went to pay for the flight and ticket for vmworld... Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 05:37
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Corvettefisher posted:I feel the vSA is going... I like it, actually... I hope that "wallet" is an expense report away from getting replenished? I'm totally getting my tickets comped  via marketing development funds. I also live walking distance from Moscone.
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Jun 20, 2013 06:50
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Sorry misunderstanding, I got it, sorry to bother you. Room mates and move out dates are EH... I get paid back for my trip but wasn't accounting for a 1k expensive before june 30th... Life lesson learned: Don't rely on roomies do give exact dates! I feel like a dumb rear end. Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 06:57
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We're finally ready to pull the trigger on getting vCenter setup, and it looks like all of VMware licensing has changed yet again. What's the difference between vCenter Foundation and vCenter Standard? It looks like Foundation cheaper (maybe free now?), and supports 3 vSphere hosts. Right now we have 2 licensed vSphere 5 Standard hosts, and 1 Free ESXi (which will probably not be added to vCenter since it's on a whole different vlan). What does Standard give us now that Foundation doesn't? Is vCenter Operations Management Suite something different than vCenter server? I'm so confused. Frozen Peach fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jun 20, 2013 |
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Jun 20, 2013 14:10
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For what it's worth in regards to XenServer, I sat in an interesting session at Microsoft TechEd a few weeks ago. A few guys from Citrix's internal IT department gave a presentation about their experience deploying XenDesktop to their own users. The hypervisor they decided to use was Hyper-V, not XenServer. I'm sure Citrix got a sweet licensing deal from MS, but it says something that they aren't using their own product in-house.
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Jun 20, 2013 16:25
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Frozen-Solid posted:We're finally ready to pull the trigger on getting vCenter setup, and it looks like all of VMware licensing has changed yet again. I think the features licensing is based on which vSphere flavor you buy. The limitation on foundation is that it supports 3 hosts. No more. If you feel your environment could grow then you don't want it. Free Esxi can't be managed by vCenter Server. Operations Management is a separate licensed product and not sure you would need it for two hosts. Demonachizer fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 13:00
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demonachizer posted:Operations Management is a separate licensed product and not sure you would need it for two hosts. Are people currently using Operations Management? If so, how many hosts do you manage? I used their initial release of it, but it was more than I really needed for my old environment (we got it for free).
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Jun 21, 2013 17:22
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I manage 5 hosts and we don't use it.
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Jun 21, 2013 17:24
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Moey posted:Are people currently using Operations Management? If so, how many hosts do you manage? I used their initial release of it, but it was more than I really needed for my old environment (we got it for free). Only place I use it at currently, I want to make it a standard of implementing at least foundations in most places. Only place I really have it deployed at currently is my CC's Lab 12 hosts, ~200 Vm's. Reason I use it is because other classes run the hosts when I am not there, OPs manager's reports and reccomendations come in handy.
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Jun 21, 2013 17:45
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I know we go over this from time to time, but would some of you guys mind posting what you use for your home lab setups? I am going to start putting together a lab since I am finally managing an environment bigger than 3 hosts and using a bit more than live migration and would really appreciate some ideas on what you all are using. Thanks
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Jun 21, 2013 20:48
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Syano posted:I know we go over this from time to time, but would some of you guys mind posting what you use for your home lab setups? I am going to start putting together a lab since I am finally managing an environment bigger than 3 hosts and using a bit more than live migration and would really appreciate some ideas on what you all are using. Thanks There's an ongoing thread over at HardOCP where people have been posting home setups over the years. You should check out the more recent posts for what folks are using. But if you want to know what goons use, maybe it'd be better to start a specific thread for that? I dunno what the policy is for "list your gear" threads is around these parts.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:24
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Syano posted:I know we go over this from time to time, but would some of you guys mind posting what you use for your home lab setups? I am going to start putting together a lab since I am finally managing an environment bigger than 3 hosts and using a bit more than live migration and would really appreciate some ideas on what you all are using. Thanks Current lab ESXi Box: 1x 6128 (soon to be 6344) Supermicro motherboard 40GB ram 3x500 7200RPM drives 2x1TB 7200RPM drives 2x1Gb links I run 4 ESXi Hosts off this each with 8GB ram and 2 vCPU's, and a ZFS VM with 2 vCPU's and 6GB ram Management Server(desktop: X6 T1055 16GB ram 7200RPM Hybrid Drive I run my vDC/vCenter/view(servers) Runs in workstation
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Jun 22, 2013 00:32
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Is there a good book for vCloud Director or a good resource? I don't mind using the VM docs but I dunno, just looking for something that is a bit easier to read.
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Jun 23, 2013 23:39
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I'm not sure whether to post this in this linux thread or here, but I'll try here first. We noticed that vmware tools wasn't running on our linux guests on Friday. Me, having derped out, forgot to run vmware-config-tools.pl -m after doing a kernel update. After having done that, vmware-tools started successfully. On Saturday night our backups started failing. The linux guests were softlocked, responding to input but apparently blocked on IO. Resetting the VM was the only way to get it to come back. I set up a test where I backed up a test vm with the tools running, it softlocked. With the tools disabled it was fine. I tried enabling the vmsync driver with the tools running, that also ended up softlocking the VM. The softlock happens when I see the snapshot being taken in vCenter. I'm hesitant to blame it on a kernel update as there's honestly no telling how long vmware-tools hasn't been running since I never thought to reconfigure the modules. Has anyone seen any behavior like this before? We need vmware-tools to be running but if it's going to hose us doing backups that's gonna be a bummer and we'll have to disable them. We're on ESXi5.0u2 (whatever the latest is). VMs are RHEL6.4 patched to the latest. Backup software is Veeam 6.5. Fake Edit: Another test just finished. I disabled vm quiescing on the test VM's backup job. It did not soft lock.  Real Edit: It appears to be a kernel bug. I highly suggest you do not upgrade to 2.6.32-358.11.1.el6.x86_64 if you use quiescing on RHEL6.4. Rolling back to 2.6.32-358.6.2.el6.x86_64 avoids the problem. Goon Matchmaker fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jun 24, 2013 |
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Jun 24, 2013 16:28
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I was going to ask if you were using the quiesce option. This makes me think it does relate to sync/quiesce operations. You may have to open a case with VMware to have the VM logs looked at (not the Guest) and see if there are any issues observed at the VSCSI layer. What virtual controller are you playing with? Perhaps PVSCSI? It could help if you clobber the existing kernel modules or drivers and used what was in the VMware Tools package, but you'd want to do this on a test VM. You'd use something along the lines of --clobber-kernel-modules=<name of module> such as pvscsi, vmxnet3, etc (comma separated values for multiple). I don't know if this applies to the other virtual controllers and hardware. Probably not. Hum, and I guess look at your pre-freeze and post-thaw scripts.
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Jun 24, 2013 18:59
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Corvettefisher posted:Is there a good book for vCloud Director or a good resource? I don't mind using the VM docs but I dunno, just looking for something that is a bit easier to read. Post questions and I'll try to answer. There's not really any good resources on vCloud Director at the moment.
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Jun 24, 2013 20:29
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Not sure if this is the right place for this. I'm looking to use virtualization to get some practice working with Server 2012. I was thinking I could have Server 2012 as the host OS with Hyper-V and then create VM clients to work with it. At the same time I could get some virtualization experience by having to manage the creation and maintenance of the VMs. My plan is to make a small PC that I could lock up at night so it doesn't get swiped from my office but I'm unsure of the minimums in terms of RAM and storage that might dictate MB and case size. If I can get by with 16 gigs of RAM and at most a couple of drives a micro ATX MB in a small case would be enough. If it requires 32+ gigs and multiple drives I'd have to move up. Would something like this be sufficient for working toward my Server 2012 certs and a virtualization cert, or would that require more hardware?
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Jun 24, 2013 22:04
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Dick Trauma posted:Not sure if this is the right place for this. I'm looking to use virtualization to get some practice working with Server 2012. I was thinking I could have Server 2012 as the host OS with Hyper-V and then create VM clients to work with it. At the same time I could get some virtualization experience by having to manage the creation and maintenance of the VMs. 16GB and 240GB SSD would be enough, moving to 32GB would give you more breathing room (if you want to worth with Exchange, System Center, SQL VMs)
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Jun 24, 2013 22:37
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1000101 posted:Post questions and I'll try to answer. There's not really any good resources on vCloud Director at the moment. When ever I get stable drives I will post em all here  loving poo poo loving loving poo poo rear end FAILING DRIVES! Seriously WD this is the 3rd time I have ordered your blue drives... gently caress it I am going with some Seagates... Well I guess it is kinda good I didn't have any usable trials on it but still... Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 05:19
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I think it's time to upgrade to the Black drives.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:22
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FISHMANPET posted:I think it's time to upgrade to the Black drives. They aren't even a week old which is the sad part
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Jun 25, 2013 05:23
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Corvettefisher posted:They aren't even a week old which is the sad part That's normal, actually. Bathtub-curve for drive failures means a good fraction will die during the first few weeks.
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Jun 25, 2013 05:34
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Corvettefisher posted:When ever I get stable drives I will post em all here drat, my eye's suck, I can't even read that pic.
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Jun 25, 2013 12:12
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Tasty Wheat posted:drat, my eye's suck, I can't even read that pic. If you hover your mouse over the image then click on the 1919x1049, it brings it full res.
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Jun 25, 2013 14:22
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If you don't have your own Synology NAS with WD Red drives, then you are literally living like poo poo.
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Jun 25, 2013 14:42
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