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Get epic Feora, she's a total babe. Also second Vassal and Covenant.
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Jun 25, 2013 11:11
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Rhoven isn't going to help against stealth units much, as he can only give the ability to see through stealth once to a single model.
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Jun 25, 2013 15:25
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Khisanth Magus posted:Rhoven isn't going to help against stealth units much, as he can only give the ability to see through stealth once to a single model. Yeah, but when that single model is a ranged jack with multiple aoe's that not the hindrance one might think.
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Jun 25, 2013 16:27
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 Ready to crush humans under its mighty pink boot.
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Jun 25, 2013 16:28
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Hipster Occultist posted:Yeah, but when that single model is a ranged jack with multiple aoe's that not the hindrance one might think. The only ranged jack with multiple AoEs is the redeemer. Who is shooting at RAT what, 1(3 with battle(need 11s to hit), 5 with battle and aiming(still need 9s to hit)) against Def 14 mage hunters? Good luck with that.
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Jun 25, 2013 16:58
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Khisanth Magus posted:The only ranged jack with multiple AoEs is the redeemer. Who is shooting at RAT what, 1(3 with battle(need 11s to hit), 5 with battle and aiming(still need 9s to hit)) against Def 14 mage hunters? Good luck with that. Also hitting is unimportant with AOEs anyway, so who cares about ignoring stealth?
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Jun 25, 2013 17:57
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Paper Kaiju posted:
It looks like it's made of delicious pink frosting. I mean that in the most complementary way possible.
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Jun 25, 2013 18:03
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Khisanth Magus posted:The only ranged jack with multiple AoEs is the redeemer. Who is shooting at RAT what, 1(3 with battle(need 11s to hit), 5 with battle and aiming(still need 9s to hit)) against Def 14 mage hunters? Good luck with that. http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/the-protectorate-of-menoth/colossals/judicator Rat 5 (or 6 with Eye) needing 9's (or 8's) to hit boosted is a really good chance of hitting. Lets not forget the chain blasts, and the fact that thanks to the Reliquary it'll only need one focus allocated to boost both rocket pods. Hell, if you're close for to the Mage Hunters for some reason add in 2 8' inch sprays. Panzeh posted:Also hitting is unimportant with AOEs anyway, so who cares about ignoring stealth? Hitting is better than carpet bombing, controlling where your shot lands is far more reliable than praying the dice gods for good scatters. Hipster Occultist fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 18:17
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Amen. The best AoEs usually have terrible RAT, så using buffs are a must there for me.
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Jun 25, 2013 18:25
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Hipster Occultist posted:http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/the-protectorate-of-menoth/colossals/judicator Ehem, make that RAT 1 because the judicator is also inaccurate on its rockets. And the flamethrowers are sprays which ignore stealth. So, again, Rhoven provides nothing to it. I want to clarify, however, that I'm not saying the judicator is not awesome for clearing out things like MHSF and other high def/low armor infantry. It is awesome at it. However, it doesn't rely on hitting to do that, and frankly it sucks at hitting things directly. Khisanth Magus fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 18:32
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LeSquide posted:It looks like it's made of delicious pink frosting. I mean that in the most complementary way possible.  (very nice paintjob though)
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Jun 25, 2013 18:39
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Calico Noose posted:
If a new dood picks up some sluggers and runs them with a remotely viable caster [Jarl for TacSup or Grimmer Angus] they'll be fine. Hell, I've even heard stories of people using the winter troll to some effect. No they're not the best, and not really worth their points but what I mean to say is that there aren't any "your army is unplayable garbage that autoloses" lists like there are in other games. If you have 25 points of dudes and are playing with a friend, you'll be able to have fun on the battlefield. This is what really sold me coming to warmachine, the bar for "This model sucks" is a LOT higher to the point where most things have some function even if they're suboptimal. edit: nested a quote because I didn't realize another page had gone by. Alpha Phoenix fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 19:24
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Q != E
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Jun 25, 2013 19:25
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Khisanth Magus posted:Ehem, make that RAT 1 because the judicator is also inaccurate on its rockets. And the flamethrowers are sprays which ignore stealth. So, again, Rhoven provides nothing to it. Aim + Battle gets it back, and those are so fundamental to the Protectorate gunline that maybe Hipster Occultist forgot to specifically mention them. I don't have a dog in this fight, just saying that the things that tend to be worth hitting directly also tend to be low enough that RAT 5 + Eye or boosted approaches sufficiency. EDIT: actually re-reading the conversation, not only did you specifically mention both of those things in the context of the Redeemer, but HO also seems to be holding out Judicator as a better alternative to Redeemer for reasons of RAT and not just raw killin' power, so maybe he forgot Judicator had Inaccurate. Anyway, for what it's worth, I think anti-stealth Judicator/Redeemer are both pretty good versus my own beloved Circle. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 19:31
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Sulecrist posted:Aim + Battle gets it back, and those are so fundamental to the Protectorate gunline that maybe Hipster Occultist forgot to specifically mention them. I don't have a dog in this fight, just saying that the things that tend to be worth hitting directly also tend to be low enough that RAT 5 + Eye or boosted approaches sufficiency. That is true, but means you are still having to boost to hit, and any ret player worth anything is going to make dang sure a direct hit on a 3" aoe isn't going to hit any additional models anyways. When you are using 3" aoes against high def infantry you usually want to miss as they will have them too spread out for direct hits to do much damage.
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Jun 25, 2013 19:36
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Khisanth Magus posted:That is true, but means you are still having to boost to hit, and any ret player worth anything is going to make dang sure a direct hit on a 3" aoe isn't going to hit any additional models anyways. When you are using 3" aoes against high def infantry you usually want to miss as they will have them too spread out for direct hits to do much damage. Edit above notwithstanding, my reading comp is bad enough that I missed that we were talking about MHSF. There's pretty much no reason why you wouldn't want to be drifting against them, yeah. EDIT: if they're immune to blast damage use zealots or something, OP. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jun 25, 2013 |
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Jun 25, 2013 19:38
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Sulecrist posted:Edit above notwithstanding, my reading comp is bad enough that I missed that we were talking about MHSF. There's pretty much no reason why you wouldn't want to be drifting against them, yeah. Exactly. As your edit said, rhoven can be useful against things like ekaya or prowling stalkers, but against stealth troops there is never really a time you don't want to drift, unless they are immune to blast damage and you aren't using eFeora, or they are using rahn and can dictate where your aoe goes.
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Jun 25, 2013 19:50
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You know what else is good against Stealth? Sprays that set poo poo on fire. If you are ever in doubt about what to do in Protectorate, remember two things: 1. Purify that poo poo 2. All hail them flames.
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Jun 26, 2013 01:40
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Khisanth Magus posted:Ehem, make that RAT 1 because the judicator is also inaccurate on its rockets. And the flamethrowers are sprays which ignore stealth. So, again, Rhoven provides nothing to it. I didn't forget inaccurate at all, if I had I would have put it at Rat 9 instead of Rat 5. Hell, even RAT 3 (if you need to move) can still do it on 11's boosted, which is well within the realm of possibility. But please, stop this "it's always better to drift" nonsense. It's always better to directly hit if you have the range, why exactly would I want to chance the AoE scattering away when I don't have too? Besides, you're ignoring important things like killing the UA, or killing certain models you think are close enough to walk forward and shoot something important. (which is a lot more difficult if you're using blast damage and praying for 1-2 on the distance die) Last point, I think it's also important to remember that in a real game circumstances often prevent you from spreading out perfectly. The ironic thing is that this is all kinda moot anyways, if they're playing pSev Ashes to Ashes doees a wonderful job arc'ed through the Blessing on the drat elves
Hipster Occultist fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jun 26, 2013 |
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Jun 26, 2013 01:51
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Feeple posted:You know what else is good against Stealth? Sprays that set poo poo on fire. Yeah my Vanquisher with his Vassal buddy has been able to keep the hordes of stealth at bay I love me some continuous fire, I really need to get a Repenter as the few games of VASSAL I have played with him have been amazing.
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Jun 26, 2013 02:10
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 These Bastions are going to keep me busy until Convergence comes out. It just takes so long to paint models with lots of little details on them! It must take sooo long to get a fully painted Menite army. I can't believe I started off on this journey with the goal of playing that ridiculous Vindictus Tier 4 list with Max Zealots w/ UA and 2x Max Errants w/ UA. That has got to be like 100 hours of painting! dexefiend fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 26, 2013 |
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Jun 26, 2013 03:22
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Hipster Occultist posted:Hitting is better than carpet bombing, controlling where your shot lands is far more reliable than praying the dice gods for good scatters. Against good players the infantry will be scattered enough anyway that you have a better chance of hitting multiple guys on a deviation than with a direct hit. You just need to be a tad bit over a small base length apart against a 3" AOE.
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Jun 26, 2013 05:17
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Panzeh posted:Against good players the infantry will be scattered enough anyway that you have a better chance of hitting multiple guys on a deviation than with a direct hit. You just need to be a tad bit over a small base length apart against a 3" AOE. Maybe, but then you're still dependent on the dice going your way, both for direction and distance. Take dice out of the equation as much as possible. edit: What I mean to say is that sure, if they're spread out like that you could tag two if you land your AoE in the middle of two-three dudes. But you're entirely depending on luck at that point, there's a really good chance you still only scatter over one or even scatter off of what you're shooting at entirely. Whereas a hit is a hit. Kill the UA and Mage Hunters lose what makes them disgusting anyways. Hipster Occultist fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jun 26, 2013 |
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Jun 26, 2013 05:27
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Hipster Occultist posted:Kill the UA and Mage Hunters lose what makes them disgusting anyways. No they don't, it's a tactic. The only thing he gives the unit after deployment is another shot at +1 rat compared to the rest of the unit.
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Jun 26, 2013 06:34
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Rhoven is poo poo with a Redeemer but owns with the Sev, Battle Engine and Reckoners. Ashes to Ashes ripping through Bane Thralls without exposing Blessing of Vengeance is amazing.
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Jun 26, 2013 07:50
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I'm getting bored/frustrated with the glass cannon style of legion and want to try something different - I am tempted by Menoth, Skorne and Circle. I'm thinking Circle would be too similar in approach to legion, what with their fragile, alpha-strike-dependent beasts. Is this an accurate assumption? Which faction will give me the least legion-like approach to the game?
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Jun 26, 2013 13:36
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Menoth, Skorne, Trolls and Cyriss are your best bets there.
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Jun 26, 2013 13:47
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Why do you say Cyriss? I haven't seen anything more than what's in War Room, and while they're not very alpha strike oriented, I wouldn't necessarily say they're the opposite of Legion either. Definitely agree Skorne or Trolls would be a great counter.
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Jun 26, 2013 14:01
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Since they are a slow, synergy based faction with weaker small based infantry and a lot more options for medium base units. The field marshall ability is just out of left field too. Mind you this is only what I have read not what I have played.
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Jun 26, 2013 14:05
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I would do trolls but half the models are mis-sculpted pieces of poo poo. Is it viable to do a fire-spam feora army?
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Jun 26, 2013 14:16
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Mondrian posted:I'm getting bored/frustrated with the glass cannon style of legion and want to try something different - Circle are, with all but maybe two casters, substantially more fragile than Legion. I agree with the others--Skorne and Protectorate are both very different (although they both have a few lists that might have overlap with a few Legion lists) and resilient (if you look at the armies as wholes).
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Jun 26, 2013 16:38
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Mondrian posted:I would do trolls but half the models are mis-sculpted pieces of poo poo. eFeora, Judicator make people mad. Get it, love it, drink their tears. Here is a list for you built on heavy armour Feora, Protector of the Flame - WJ: +6 - Reckoner - PC: 8 - Judicator - PC: 18 - Reckoner - PC: 8 Vessel of Judgment - PC: 9 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2 Wrack - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 3 Saxon Orrik - PC: 2 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2 Orrick is there for giving out pathfinder. You can swap him out for Rhupert.
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Jun 26, 2013 16:39
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Mondrian posted:I'm getting bored/frustrated with the glass cannon style of legion and want to try something different Menoth is VERY attrition-y though and they're my other faction and they play completely different from Everblight.
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Jun 26, 2013 16:46
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Sweet merciful crap. Privateer press just announced a turn based strategy game. I can't believe it. Sigh, there go my vacation funds.
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Jun 26, 2013 19:23
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http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-6-26-13 Looks like the warmachine video game is heading to kickstarter soon!
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Jun 26, 2013 19:25
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Is this the same game we saw footage of a long time ago? I thought it was supposed to be real time, not turn based. gently caress that noise 
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Jun 26, 2013 19:35
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Breastplate aside, the (tiny) trailer is kinda cool. I was prepared to be grouchy but the look has come a ways imo (although why those jacks are so blurry and 2D in that first shot I just don't know). EDIT: Turn-based at that scale might be subtext for "virtual tabletop, kinda."
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Jun 26, 2013 19:37
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Sab669 posted:Is this the same game we saw footage of a long time ago? I thought it was supposed to be real time, not turn based. gently caress that noise Different one. They couldn't sell that one.
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Jun 26, 2013 19:39
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Sab669 posted:Is this the same game we saw footage of a long time ago? I thought it was supposed to be real time, not turn based. gently caress that noise They still want to make that game but WMD has been unable to find a publisher, which is the only real way to fund a high budget action game like what they want. So that is being on hold with hopes of doing that at a later date.
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Jun 26, 2013 19:40
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I imagine that if this game is popular enough they will then have the history to get more backing for thier action adventure game
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Jun 26, 2013 19:41
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