|
Patter Song posted:I suppose I'll be LPing East vs West at some point. I still say we need to make Wiz port Hohenzollern to it. It has the added side effect of his inevitable mod making it a good fun game.
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 06:52 |
|
|
By the way, my computer's currently undergoing repairs, but a certain man with a Mitch Lawrence-in-wizard's-garb avatar gifted me a copy of Iron Cross on condition that I LP it. Next week when my computer's back on its feet I...may...hold up my end of the bargain.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:22
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:By the way, my computer's currently undergoing repairs, but a certain man with a Mitch Lawrence-in-wizard's-garb avatar gifted me a copy of Iron Cross on condition that I LP it. Next week when my computer's back on its feet I...may...hold up my end of the bargain. Do it. You have a special touch with bad mapgame LP's.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Gorgo Primus posted:How would CK2 be a better choice? Very very few of these states are feudal... I'd rather they just make a new system for it that's actually designed around modeling the Cold War. I think the idea would be you'd have characters, not the actual feudal system. Charismatic rebel leaders, different political parties led by actual characters, successful generals running for President, etc. But yeah, I don't think any of the current games are well suited for a Cold War game. HOI3 1950-1990 is one of the lesser choices. I actually would be more intrigued by a Cold War game build on CKII (!!?) then I am about some sort of Military Hardware wankfest.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:I still say we need to make Wiz port Hohenzollern to it. Mazula vs HRE vs who else again?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Edit: whoops! Lawman 0 fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jun 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:25
|
|
|
Fintilgin posted:I think the idea would be you'd have characters, not the actual feudal system. Charismatic rebel leaders, different political parties led by actual characters, successful generals running for President, etc. Vicky II's crisis and economic mechanics are pretty well suited to a Cold War game, I think. v  v
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:30
|
|
|
brocretin posted:Vicky II's crisis and economic mechanics are pretty well suited to a Cold War game, I think. v The crisis system sure, but... well... I was going to say I didn't see the need for V2s economy system in a Cold War game (Our Craftsmen have produced 45.6 Sega Genesis systems today!), but I don't see the need for it in V2 either, so I'm biased and will bow out on that argument. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:33
|
|
|
Gorgo Primus posted:How would CK2 be a better choice? Very very few of these states are feudal... I'd rather they just make a new system for it that's actually designed around modeling the Cold War. CK2 would work great for just one nation: North Korea.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:35
|
|
|
Fintilgin posted:The crisis system sure, but... Yeah, I mean the general outline of the economic system. Having to secure important resources for your military through trade with other nations and creating economic systems within the different power blocs could be quite neat. After all, how does the US choose to get oil when Saudi Arabia goes commie? DrSunshine posted:CK2 would work great for just one nation: North Korea. Crusader Kims 2?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:40
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:CK2 would work great for just one nation: North Korea. The game lists their succession law as Open Elective, but it's actually Tanistry.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
A CK2 character system would work a lot better with a revamped government system to simulate elections. Have it focus on your political party instead, push new laws that help push your party to leadership. I mean, like I said earlier in the thread, what they have going is not anything like the Cold War.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 00:03
|
|
|
Gorgo Primus posted:How would CK2 be a better choice? Very very few of these states are feudal... I'd rather they just make a new system for it that's actually designed around modeling the Cold War. Oh, no doubt I would much, much prefer a new system designed around the Cold War, I was just think CK2 or V2 would be better bases for a Cold War game if it has to be that way. For Crusader Kings 2, I think the whole character system would work well for things like cabinet posts and intelligence heads, while the levy system could lend itself to the military pacts of the time. I think Vic 2 would be a better choice with its crisis system and POPs, but it's already starting to look a little long in the tooth compared to Paradox's newer titles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 00:04
|
|
|
BillBear posted:Will we ever get a great Grand Strategy cold war game? Ahem ... 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 00:40
|
|
|
 You mean?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 00:55
|
|
|
Fintilgin posted:I was going to say I didn't see the need for V2s economy system in a Cold War game (Our Craftsmen have produced 45.6 Sega Genesis systems today!), but I don't see the need for it in V2 either, so I'm biased and will bow out on that argument. You don't see the need for a industrialisation mechanic in a game about the industrial revolution?  The economy isn't the reason EvW should be based on Vicky, anyway; that's the in-depth political, social and demographic systems. You could simulate the Civil Rights Movement in V2 as easily as making citizenship policy a reform and Afro-American a non-accepted culture*. In HOI, you have to fashion an entire social movement system from whole cloth. *It'd be a pretty basic simulation, in fairness. You'd want to extend it with an event pool, add a character system for faction/movement/party leaders...
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 02:45
|
|
|
Littlefinger posted:
Look, the developers only have so much time and resources. You can have fluff like this, or you can customize the weapon hard points on your aircraft carriers. No brainer. Autonomous Monster posted:You don't see the need for a industrialisation mechanic in a game about the industrial revolution? Not A industrialization mechanic, V2s overly complex and inscrutable mechanic. I think a more abstract industrialization model that provided stronger and more meaningful hooks for player choice/interaction would be provide better results and be more fun. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 02:53
|
|
|
So I don't really have the hour or so it takes to watch the whole EvW livestream, so does anyone have a nice "Best of/Worst of" summary from it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 03:00
|
|
|
DrProsek posted:So I don't really have the hour or so it takes to watch the whole EvW livestream, so does anyone have a nice "Best of/Worst of" summary from it? Came here to ask for exactly this, with emphasis on things not related to combat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 03:08
|
|
|
Honestly i think the CK2 or even M&B systems are the best representations of government but this is biased by my 1)training in anthropology 2)my dirty liberal belief that the individual is the real unit of politics. DrProsek posted:So I don't really have the hour or so it takes to watch the whole EvW livestream, so does anyone have a nice "Best of/Worst of" summary from it? Patter Song posted:I suppose I'll be LPing East vs West at some point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 03:10
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Ahem ... I once had a game of Shadow President where the USSR and China nuked each other to oblivion, then various countries successfully couped the presumably glowing and dusty remnants of the Soviet and Chinese governments into capitalist democracies.  
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 03:12
|
|
|
Pakled posted:I once had a game of Shadow President where the USSR and China nuked each other to oblivion, then various countries successfully couped the presumably glowing and dusty remnants of the Soviet and Chinese governments into capitalist democracies. I would dearly love to get some smug American Internet posts from this timeline, because holy hell how smug must America have felt?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 03:58
|
|
|
Since some people aren't cool enough to watch a 90 minute stream about a game based on HoI3 here's what I took away from it:
As someone who's been following EvW off and on with waning interest this stream was neat but I don't think I'm going to be buying the game at launch. uPen fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jun 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 04:45
|
|
|
Pakled posted:I once had a game of Shadow President where the USSR and China nuked each other to oblivion, then various countries successfully couped the presumably glowing and dusty remnants of the Soviet and Chinese governments into capitalist democracies. Wait, I've never played Shadow President, can you turn America socialist/communist just for the hell of it? I know you can bury Israel under a deluge of 5,000 nuclear warheads, I've seen the .gif, but can you influence domestic policy much?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 05:27
|
|
|
Mister Bates posted:Wait, I've never played Shadow President, can you turn America socialist/communist just for the hell of it? I know you can bury Israel under a deluge of 5,000 nuclear warheads, I've seen the .gif, but can you influence domestic policy much? Not to quite the extent you imagine. The game's mainly focused on foreign policy, and the extent of domestic policy you get is allocating the budget and setting tax rates. These choices influence your popularity (which is important, since you need high popularity to get re-elected and if it gets too low, you may get impeached or your advisers might start resigning or get assassinated) and how much money you have at your disposal for stuff like foreign aid and military actions. As far as I know, there's no way to make America non-Capitalist, since the game ends when the you, the president, leave office.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 05:34
|
|
|
Gorgo Primus posted:How would CK2 be a better choice? Very very few of these states are feudal... I went to Margaret Thatcher's chamber and gave her a good tumble!
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 05:36
|
|
|
What's the best way to mod the EU 3 map? I picked it up in the sale last week, and I'm learning the game as Naples, but I keep thinking how much cooler it would be to continue my Scandinavian Emperor or my North African King from CK2.Non Sequitur posted:I went to Margaret Thatcher's chamber and gave her a good tumble! 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 05:47
|
|
|
Littlefinger posted:
After I'm done with my current game I'm really thinking of just making an updated of Balance of Power. Probably just as a simple two player browser game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 06:45
|
|
|
uPen posted:
uPen posted:
uPen posted:
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 07:14
|
|
|
Yeah, they want World War III, not the Cold War. Not having the Cuban Missile Crisis makes even less sense considering their preoccupation with nukes- if nuclear war isn't Game Over, why not have the ability to start from the point where it was most plausible?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 07:22
|
|
|
They don't seem to be very competent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 07:26
|
|
|
uPen posted:As someone who's been following EvW off and on with waning interest this stream was neat but I don't think I'm going to be buying the game at launch. Oh boy. While there's nothing really standing out as saying to me "This game is hosed, beyond redemption", it's seeming like the game kinda realizes what it should be, but with such little diplomacy going on in the demo, civil rights seeming to work like a regular HoI3 policy, and de-colonization not even being featured, I can't help but feel the non-war aspects are still being neglected. Personally, if the EvW team wants my money, they need to do a pacifist stream, where they don't utter a single word about war and just focus on the diplomacy, internal politics, and espionage. If it looks like I can win the Cold War by sphereing and allying all the right people, have a socialist revolution in the USA/democratize the USSR and declaring an end to hostilities with the other (or going the opposite route and radicalizing to strengthen my ideology while increasing tensions with the other nation), or have the CIA/KGB take over the world for me, then I will buy this game regardless of gut feeling, but yeah, nothing really stands out in that list that makes me think it's what I'm looking for.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 07:37
|
|
|
If a game purports to model a period of history, but the game's design makes it almost impossible for events to play out vaguely similar to how they actually occurred, you've had a problem.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 07:42
|
|
|
At least they made a few interesting add ons from hoi3. Really at this point the best hope for EvW is that there's a group of modders out that can jazz it up but given how terrible it looks I can't see anyone investing that kind of effort into it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 07:58
|
|
|
Alikchi posted:If a game purports to model a period of history, but the game's design makes it almost impossible for events to play out vaguely similar to how they actually occurred, you've had a problem. I find it hard to believe, based on what we've seen so far, that it will be possible to play a full Grand Campaign in EvW without a nuclear war happening sometime around 1950, likely over something really stupid (the USSR nuking New Zealand in the War of the Soviet Falkland Islands Concession). And they won't have a pacifist video stream because, surprise, there's not enough diplomatic/espionage/space race content for one!
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 08:00
|
|
|
Non Sequitur posted:I went to Margaret Thatcher's chamber and gave her a good tumble! It's good to be the Premier.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 09:03
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Ahem ... Sorry you don't get to post that without: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 09:14
|
|
|
quote:I went to Margaret Thatcher's chamber and gave her a good tumble!  I spent way too much time trying to get a similar look in the Ruler Designer 
SkySteak fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jun 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 09:17
|
|
|
There's actually an exploit in Shadow President where you can request for troop deployment in a staunch ally, have it approved, don't change the troop numbers, but then get 1-3% increased approval rating anyway. Spamming this, I was able to conquer most of the world before I got tired of having to wrestle with the interface. Shadow President remade in the Clausewitz engine would be fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 09:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 06:52 |
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:There's actually an exploit in Shadow President where you can request for troop deployment in a staunch ally, have it approved, don't change the troop numbers, but then get 1-3% increased approval rating anyway. Spamming this, I was able to conquer most of the world before I got tired of having to wrestle with the interface. Another exploit is that your government's "righteousness" rating goes up the same no matter how much you donate in foreign aid to each country. $1 billion to 100 different countries? You are now President Jesus I would kill to get a sequel on Kickstarter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2013 09:46
|
|