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AdjectiveNoun posted:On that topic, what is the least believable Roman alt-history you've heard? Because oh boy there are a ton. Someone recommended an alt-history podcast for me, and the very first episode is Steampvnk Rome Conquers the World. I figure it's supposed to be fluffy thought experiment stuff, but I can't suspend my disbelief hard enough to hear "SUDDENLY RAILROADS IN GERMANIA!" without rolling my eyes clean out of my head.
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Jun 25, 2013 23:59
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Seoinin posted:Someone recommended an alt-history podcast for me, and the very first episode is Steampvnk Rome Conquers the World. I figure it's supposed to be fluffy thought experiment stuff, but I can't suspend my disbelief hard enough to hear "SUDDENLY RAILROADS IN GERMANIA!" without rolling my eyes clean out of my head. Holy poo poo, I would rather believe the Assyrians were actual demon worshippers and they just hosed up their ultimate world domination ritual, resulting in a rain of iron on what would later become Rome, so that the Romans could go on and plant railroads in Germania. Where exactly did get "Steampunk Rome" all that metal needed for stuff like railroads, anyway? Or did Rome just have magically more ressources available like through some sort of trans-dimensional cheatcode? On the other hand, an alt-history story with Assyria summoning demons to prevent the collapse of their empire would be pretty neat.
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Jun 26, 2013 00:25
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What was Rome like when Justinian retook it?
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Jun 26, 2013 00:30
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Libluini posted:Holy poo poo, I would rather believe the Assyrians were actual demon worshippers and they just hosed up their ultimate world domination ritual, resulting in a rain of iron on what would later become Rome, so that the Romans could go on and plant railroads in Germania. It seriously sounds like something written by a teenaged nerdlord who just got turned on to ancient history. Towards the end, Rome conquers China... ...with STEAM TANKS 
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Jun 26, 2013 00:30
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What was the hurdle that iron producers had to get around? Because iron deposits are all over the place, right? Britain didn't see a lot of iron structures until after they'd been using coal for a couple hundred years, but was that an issue of technique, machinery, or fuel?
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Jun 26, 2013 00:45
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As far as I know the metallurgy required to create a working steam engine was pretty far out of Roman hands and their cultural opposition to labor-saving devices was really deeply ingrained so no one was going to go looking for a way to make it work anyway. Also their ability to access the coal and iron needed was pretty much crap compared to the 19th century. I think this thread has already talked about why the Romans never utilized steam power so if you look back you should find a better answer. It seems to be a recurring topic.
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Jun 26, 2013 01:34
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The two principle issues were a lack of refinement in the iron and a lack of pumps to facilitate deeper mines, I'm pretty sure. Better refined metals (which wouldn't come for centuries after the fall of the west) make for more applications for them which creates more demand for them which means deeper mines are necessary along with like a billion other factors. You have to understand that while the Dark Age was a pretty big fall in a lot of ways there's still more than 1500 years of progress between Rome's height and industrialization.
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Jun 26, 2013 02:01
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AdjectiveNoun posted:On that topic, what is the least believable Roman alt-history you've heard? Because oh boy there are a ton. I just finished a series of short stories about "what if Rome never fell?" and ugh. First the intro was a badly done *wink* explaining Moses' exodus never succeeded, and therefore no Christianity. Then, Roma(as it's always referred to) just naturally follows 'our' history, with Mohammed(who is assassinated, so no Muslims), the discovery of "Nova Roma" across the ocean where the redskins live, circumnavigation, etc. leading up to automobiles and a fracturing of Latin into familiar regional dialects. Then there is the author's inaccuracy and inconsistency in naming things-Londinium is used once or twice, but Londin more often, and Paris changes to Parisi.
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Jun 26, 2013 02:23
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Yeah, the hurdle for iron was how you smelt it. Blooming, which was the process that everyone in Europe was using is pretty hard to use to make large quantities of usable wrought iron. Blast furnaces, which were in use in China around the same time, are better, but not by much. The Romans weren't really about to improve on that either. Improved methods didn't really come along until the 18th century, by which time we had developed a much better knowledge of chemistry than Rome ever did. The Baroness posted:I just finished a series of short stories about "what if Rome never fell?" and ugh. First the intro was a badly done *wink* explaining Moses' exodus never succeeded, and therefore no Christianity. Then, Roma(as it's always referred to) just naturally follows 'our' history, with Mohammed(who is assassinated, so no Muslims), the discovery of "Nova Roma" across the ocean where the redskins live, circumnavigation, etc. leading up to automobiles and a fracturing of Latin into familiar regional dialects. Then there is the author's inaccuracy and inconsistency in naming things-Londinium is used once or twice, but Londin more often, and Paris changes to Parisi. Parisi? 
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Jun 26, 2013 02:53
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Imagine what would have happened if that one Roman-Persian leadership-level marriage actually happened. I forget which couple it was, but the family would have potentially controlled both empires.
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Jun 26, 2013 03:28
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Koramei posted:The two principle issues were a lack of refinement in the iron and a lack of pumps to facilitate deeper mines, I'm pretty sure. Better refined metals (which wouldn't come for centuries after the fall of the west) make for more applications for them which creates more demand for them which means deeper mines are necessary along with like a billion other factors. You have to understand that while the Dark Age was a pretty big fall in a lot of ways there's still more than 1500 years of progress between Rome's height and industrialization. Even then, Britain wouldn't have moved to steam had they not been close to stripping the island bare of trees in the 18th century. The shift to coal as a heating fuel necessitated the mines and then the transportation and delivery system that overwhelmed pack animals and drove the innovations needed for steam power.
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Jun 26, 2013 03:45
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karl fungus posted:Imagine what would have happened if that one Roman-Persian leadership-level marriage actually happened. I forget which couple it was, but the family would have potentially controlled both empires. I don't know if it is what you were thinking of, but Caracalla was supposed to marry a Parthian princess but instead slaughtered the entire wedding party because he was just that kind of a dick.
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Jun 26, 2013 03:55
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Giodo! posted:I don't know if it is what you were thinking of, but Caracalla was supposed to marry a Yes! That was it. Imagine what could have happened, though! Also, here's another question. How did the Byzantines treat the Jews? Also, did the empire have a substantial Islamic population at some point?
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Jun 26, 2013 03:59
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Giodo! posted:I don't know if it is what you were thinking of, but Caracalla was supposed to marry a I've only just gotten to Caracalla in The History of Rome podcast and I already don't like him, looks like I have more to look forward to. Edit: Holy poo poo, he I Love Lucy'ed the Imperial Palace; killed his exiled wife purely to spite his already dead father-in-law; and had his brother killed right in front of their mother. Is he the WORST Emperor of all time, or do I have even worse to "look forward" to? Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jun 26, 2013 |
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Jun 26, 2013 04:19
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karl fungus posted:Imagine what would have happened if that one Roman-Persian leadership-level marriage actually happened. I forget which couple it was, but the family would have potentially controlled both empires. Probably nothing would have happened. It's not like Rome and Persia would have just decided to be buds from then on it.
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Jun 26, 2013 07:13
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karl fungus posted:What was Rome like when Justinian retook it? I'm also interested in hearing more about this. The Eastern Empire is very interesting and is always my favorite faction in the Total War games.
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Jun 26, 2013 08:35
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Seoinin posted:It seriously sounds like something written by a teenaged nerdlord who just got turned on to ancient history. Towards the end, Rome conquers China... Bah, that wouldn't work, obviously. China had rockets, so they would have jury-rigged some sort of Anti-Steam-Tank-Katyusha and blown them all up. Obviously. 
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Jun 26, 2013 09:54
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Jerusalem posted:I've only just gotten to Caracalla in The History of Rome podcast and I already don't like him, looks like I have more to look forward to. Let me tell you about a young man known as Elogabalus... e: Seriously, don't look up anything.
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Jun 26, 2013 10:27
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Let me tell you about a young man known as Elogabalus... A transgender/transvestite 14 year old as emperor? What could possibly go wrong!
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Jun 26, 2013 11:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Let me tell you about a young man known as Elogabalus... Oh yeah I think he's in the next episode, I just finished up the one on Macrinus' short reign. It's always kind of sad to learn about a guy who wasn't a COMPLETE rear end in a top hat and how that comes back to bite them on the rear end. So Severus' bloodline was pretty screwed up, I guess.
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Jun 26, 2013 11:48
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I am working on a game at the moment and need a hercules female equivalent... is there one? Or a pair of Zeus children I can use. The idea is you select the sex you want to play and the demigods are similar. I really dont know much greek mythology.
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Jun 26, 2013 13:54
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Not sure you are going to find a female version of hercules. The Greeks were rather dedicated sexists. The only warlike women were Amazons.
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Jun 26, 2013 14:14
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Not sure you are going to find a female version of hercules. The Greeks were rather dedicated sexists. The only warlike women were Amazons. Is there one who has some talent? It just needs to be the equivalent to hercules' strength.
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Jun 26, 2013 14:15
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Nobody's equivalent in strength. Athena is the warrior woman, but she represents intelligence and tactics, not strength. Artemis is a hunter, that's something I guess?
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Jun 26, 2013 14:21
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You also specifically mentioned demigod's, and pretty much all of them are like Helen of Troy. The only benefit their demigod status gives them is being amazingly hot and desirable. And Circe can turn people into pigs.
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Jun 26, 2013 14:31
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There's Atalanta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atalanta
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Jun 26, 2013 14:45
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She works thanks! Gonna be a fun game, check out the game jam for look at the end of july.
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Jun 26, 2013 14:55
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Funny thing is, I remembered first learning about Atalanta in the game Age of Mythology. She was one of the heroes you could recruit, so I guess your idea is not very original.
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Jun 26, 2013 15:18
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thegasman2000 posted:She works thanks! Gonna be a fun game, check out the game jam for look at the end of july. This is a little late to the game, but there's always Penthisilea, Queen of the Amazons, daughter of Ares, who fought at Troy.
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Jun 26, 2013 22:00
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Did Alexander have any plans to conquer Carthage or expand west? I remember reading that somewhere, but it may have been a fictional book.
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Jun 26, 2013 23:49
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Ego-bot posted:Did Alexander have any plans to conquer Carthage or expand west? I remember reading that somewhere, but it may have been a fictional book.
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Jun 27, 2013 00:12
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Slantedfloors posted:When Alexander died he was in the planning stage of a massive western invasion (Rome, Carthage, Gaul, Iberia) that was supposed to rival his eastern one. And then as soon as he died all his generals decided that building the retardedly large fleet Alexander wanted and funding another massive expedition was less interesting then killing eachother. A good summary. Had Alexander survived things might've been very different. Rome strangled in its cradle.
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Jun 27, 2013 01:53
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thegasman2000 posted:I am working on a game at the moment and need a hercules female equivalent... is there one? Or a pair of Zeus children I can use. The idea is you select the sex you want to play and the demigods are similar. I really dont know much greek mythology. Dunno for Greek mythology proper, but I remember Ovid mentioning in Metamorphoses a woman (I think she was called Caenis? Something to do with dogs) who was such a complete badass that she got the ultimate reward for her strength by transforming...into a man? I haven't touched Ovid in a couple of years, though, so my memory is hazy and probably really faulty.
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Jun 27, 2013 02:27
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Slantedfloors posted:When Alexander died he was in the planning stage of a massive western invasion (Rome, Carthage, Gaul, Iberia) that was supposed to rival his eastern one. And then as soon as he died all his generals decided that building the retardedly large fleet Alexander wanted and funding another massive expedition was less interesting then killing eachother. Wasn't Alexander going completely-out-of-his-mind crazy at this point? If so his generals may have just gotten lucky and Mother Nature just happened to assassinate Alex before anyone else could step up to the plate. Which reminds, me how's the theory that he was murdered by poison carried by a disgruntled satrap's herald regarded? I remember reading that a modern medical panel dedicated to ancient/famous autopsies ruled it out, but not why they did so. It's been a few years since I've read up on this so my memory is a bit hazy. edit: another weird little detail I have a hazy recollection of. Didn't Alexander's invasion of Carthage and the West rely on some really bad geographical assumptions like being able to sail around Ethiopia and going around Africa while a land army marched along a massive coastal road Alexander wanted constructed to connect Egypt and Carthage? Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 02:30
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Ithle01 posted:Wasn't Alexander going completely-out-of-his-mind crazy at this point? If so his generals may have just gotten lucky and Mother Nature just happened to assassinate Alex before anyone else could step up to the plate. Which reminds, me how's the theory that he was murdered by poison carried by a disgruntled satrap's herald regarded? I remember reading that a modern medical panel dedicated to ancient/famous autopsies ruled it out, but not why they did so. It's been a few years since I've read up on this so my memory is a bit hazy. I think he was really depressed because his special friend had just died unexpectedly and he was drinking heavily as a way of self-medicating. Haven't heard anything in the line of "madness" about Alexander. Like King Robert, he was better at winning an empire than ruling it.
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Jun 27, 2013 02:33
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I don't think he was crazy, he was just the definition of a megalomaniac. Which I guess you could classify as crazy, I suppose. He was also a bit paranoid at the end, but to be honest for a man in his position there's usually some justification for that.
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Jun 27, 2013 02:39
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What was Rome even like in the time of Alexander?
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Jun 27, 2013 02:43
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karl fungus posted:What was Rome even like in the time of Alexander? Still restrained to Italy for the most part. This is pre-Punic wars even, afterall.
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Jun 27, 2013 02:45
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It's a bit before my era, Eggplant Wizard could answer better. But in the 300s Rome had beaten up its immediate neighbors and was becoming one of the major powers of Italy, with Magna Graecia being the other. The Roman army still used hoplites, but was beginning to transition into the legions. The war with Pyrrhus would come fairly soon after Alexander's defeat, leaving Rome as the dominant power of Italy.
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Jun 27, 2013 02:47
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Grand Fromage posted:It's a bit before my era, Eggplant Wizard could answer better. But in the 300s Rome had beaten up its immediate neighbors and was becoming one of the major powers of Italy, with Magna Graecia being the other. The Roman army still used hoplites, but was beginning to transition into the legions. The war with Pyrrhus would come fairly soon after Alexander's defeat, leaving Rome as the dominant power of Italy. Was Magna Graecia actually a political entity? I thought its various cities were still divided and squabbling and pretty much Greek Poleis.txt and that's why they even called Pyrrhus over in the first place, because they couldn't manage to even muster up a cohesive army to defend themselves.
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