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Sure - I guess the question is if you have anything to lose by starting off with a layer of patina initially. It seems like, especially to avoid rust as much as possible, that would be the recommended course of action with any new CCK cleaver - like there's an upside (less rust, an initial layer of patina) and no downside, and white vinegar + a paper towel is both in everyone's kitchen and effectively free. Yet when I read about it online it seems to be much more debatable than doing an initial seasoning layer for cast-iron, which is SOP. I guess I'm going nuts on knives right now so that I don't have to figure it all out again later. Thanks for all the discussion - this has been absolutely invaluable.
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Jun 26, 2013 18:52
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I forced a patina on my carbon knives with yellow mustard. Dan it on with a paper towel, let it dry over a few hours, rinse, and use. After 2 months of daily use, I've got a nice even patina, and no rust on initial cuts.
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Jun 26, 2013 20:07
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deimos posted:Oh god should I get a CCK or a Nakiri? Any other goons that don't want to get into sharpening and want a stainless steel knife, get the tojiro dp nakiri. I have one and it's a great vegetable knife that's low maintenance.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:27
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deimos posted:Oh god should I get a CCK or a Nakiri? so the awesome thing I've realized over the past couple years : you don't have to choose. you can own both! just buy one, and if you don't like it, buy another one. it's not like the knives are going to disappear, and if you're strapped for cash just sell it on ebay or something... this coming from someone who owns like 12 knives so
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Jun 27, 2013 05:40
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mindphlux posted:this coming from someone who owns like 12 knives so Not normal is something like a $900-$1500 16-22 piece Wusthof classic ikon set
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Jun 27, 2013 06:29
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Fo3 posted:That's normal though isn't it? I have like 2 knives. That may be low for this particular thread, though.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:32
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I think 12 is low/normal for industry people, but the average home cook has maybe 1-3 decent knives. I went over to a friends house today and we cooked dinner together, he basically just had this forschner santoku I got him for christmas last year, and a bunch of butter knives. buying more than one knife valued at above $20 would be a complete extravagance for him. it sucks, but I think its pretty normal...
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Jun 27, 2013 08:38
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Zeitgueist posted:I have like 2 knives. You're probably smarter than me if you have just a really good chefs/gyuto and paring knife. Or just not an old bugger like me as people usually pick up a few knives over a couple of decades... Seriously, what does someone do with old knives they don't want anymore? Do they throw them into the trash or recycling? It's pretty much the main reason why I have about 12 knives. When first starting out I bought a knife block set because I didn't know any better. It came with a paring, utility, chefs, slicer, bread knife, as well as shears, carving fork and honing steel. Years later when I knew better I wasn't happy with them as they are too thick and don't hold their edge. So I bought a few more individual knives; some victorinox knives, some German knives, a couple of Japanese knives, and a cleaver. But I can't exactly throw the old ones into the recycling bin. Plus I keep them around for sharpening practice, and they weren't that bad after I re-beveled them. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 11:58
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Chef's knife, meat cleaver, deboner, fish filleter (slicer), dull paring knife (for turning so you don't cut your finger open), sharp paring knife (for other stuff), santoku/prep cleaver... is there a reason to own more than 7? I could see owning a dedicated filleting knife and a dedicated slicer for portioning, so maybe 8?
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Jun 27, 2013 15:46
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We need a knife thread so everyone can show off their knife porn.
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Jun 27, 2013 15:55
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I use a bread knife a lot...
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Jun 27, 2013 15:59
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No Wave posted:Chef's knife, meat cleaver, deboner, fish filleter (slicer), dull paring knife (for turning so you don't cut your finger open), sharp paring knife (for other stuff), santoku/prep cleaver... is there a reason to own more than 7? I could see owning a dedicated filleting knife and a dedicated slicer for portioning, so maybe 8? Yanagi for sashimi, slicing meat thin. Sujihike if you would rather double bevel from time to time. Petty when a chef's knife is too long. Deba for hacking through fish bones. Honesuke if you routinely disassemble lots and lots of chickens. Spare gyutos/chef's knives in case of emergency, fodder from buying pretty things but then wanting other pretty things (admittedly this could take up 5 knife slots alone). For instance, I have a 240 mm Gekko gyuto. It is damascus clad VG10. It is an awesome knife, takes a great edge, but part of me still wants a "wa" handled, shirogami gyuto for an even sillier edge and for  points. I'm very close to justifying the purchase even though I don't really really need it. About a year ago, I almost justified a honesuke. Knives are just cool, buy all the knives.
GrAviTy84 fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 16:10
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I wasn't trying to shame anyone who had more knives - I was just trying to figure out the maximum number of knives where I'd reasonably use all of them in a year if I cooked a variety of foods on a very regular basis. I'm still going to stick with around 8 being the number I'm targeting - the sukihiki would be the dedicated "slicer", the yanagi would be unnecessary for my purposes, a cleaver and fillet-er would be better for my purposes than a deba, and the honesuki would be, effectively, the deboner I mentioned. As for petty knife, maybe, but I'll see if I require that middle ground between 80mm and 240mm. So next knife purchase (the next time I feel like buying knives) will probably be a 270mm slicer, followed by an upgrade on my fibrox deboner (ie, a honesuki).
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Jun 27, 2013 16:33
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Let's see, the knives I use frequently are: 8" Shun Ken onion chef's santoku thingy. Primary chef's knife 12" Fibrox slicer 8" inch Chinese cleaver, unknown provenance 4" Henckels paring knife. I don't use paring knives much, though. Then I have a host of other santokus, bread knives, and chef's knives that I use only occasionally. The only thing that would be a necessity for me that's not in the above list is something serrated, for bread and tomatoes.
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Jun 27, 2013 16:39
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On knife talk, what would you all recommend for a low-budget slicer? I sharpen my knives very frequently, so the ability to hold an edge is less important than its ability to get to a razor sharp edge.
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Jun 27, 2013 16:52
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 That's a knife I had made for my brother as a gift. 270mm Gyuto from Watanabe with a single beveled edge, custom made handle of blue dyed maple burl, amber, blackwood and a mammoth tooth end cap. It has a very nice patina now but I haven't taken a picture of it recently.
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Jun 27, 2013 16:56
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No Wave posted:I wasn't trying to shame anyone who had more knives - I was just trying to figure out the maximum number of knives where I'd reasonably use all of them in a year if I cooked a variety of foods on a very regular basis. There, that's your reason for owning more knives. Invisible Ted posted:On knife talk, what would you all recommend for a low-budget slicer? I sharpen my knives very frequently, so the ability to hold an edge is less important than its ability to get to a razor sharp edge. The answer to low-budget is always victorinox. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 17:05
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Invisible Ted posted:On knife talk, what would you all recommend for a low-budget slicer? I sharpen my knives very frequently, so the ability to hold an edge is less important than its ability to get to a razor sharp edge. well, ability to get an aggressive edge and ability to hold an edge go hand in hand. Tojiro DP's will hold a very aggressive edge for a stainless blade. They're VG10 stainless (~HRC 60) compared to what Zwilling/Henckels uses (HRC 52-54) so they're probably plenty aggressive for most people. If you want to get into silly aggressive sharp territory look into aogami or shirogami (blue steel, white steel) knives which get up to like 65 HRC or something ridiculous. Harder steel comes with diminishing returns though. If you want a silly aggressive edge but not a pain in the rear end to sharpen something like Shirogami #1 would be the best. Aogami super is the hardest iirc but its so hard that its a serious pain to sharpen and can't hold that aggressive of an edge anyway because of its brittleness.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:14
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While knife chat is full on here, can someone tell me why numerous people have said they want/use a serrated knife for tomatoes? A while back in the glass chopping board and blunt knife days I used a serrated knife for tomatoes, then about 4 years ago I bought a santoku that was sharp and I've kept it sharp, and it's even better to slice tomatoes with?
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Jun 27, 2013 17:32
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GrAviTy84 posted:well, ability to get an aggressive edge and ability to hold an edge go hand in hand. Tojiro DP's will hold a very aggressive edge for a stainless blade. They're VG10 stainless (~HRC 60) compared to what Zwilling/Henckels uses (HRC 52-54) so they're probably plenty aggressive for most people. If you want to get into silly aggressive sharp territory look into aogami or shirogami (blue steel, white steel) knives which get up to like 65 HRC or something ridiculous. Harder steel comes with diminishing returns though. If you want a silly aggressive edge but not a pain in the rear end to sharpen something like Shirogami #1 would be the best. Aogami super is the hardest iirc but its so hard that its a serious pain to sharpen and can't hold that aggressive of an edge anyway because of its brittleness. Is this something similar to what you're recommending? http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html All my knives are european, so I don't have any experience with Japanese knives, though I think I would greatly enjoy owning one. This knife seemed cost effective while being within your recommendation, any cheaper and its size would limit my slicing. Fo3 posted:While knife chat is full on here, can someone tell me why numerous people have said they want/use a serrated knife for tomatoes? A lot of people don't have a sharp enough knife to cut a ripe tomato without smashing it, so they use a serrated as a crutch. Invisible Ted fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 17:39
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Fo3 posted:While knife chat is full on here, can someone tell me why numerous people have said they want/use a serrated knife for tomatoes? Serrated knives are only useful for them because they abuse their knives and the recessed teeth maintain some likeness of something that is moderately sort of kinda not really "sharp" and so they equate "sharp" with serrated. Give them a properly sharp knife of any kind and they will probably complain about how scared they are to use it because its actually sharp. Invisible Ted posted:Is this something similar to what you're recommending? http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html That's a great knife, but it's more of a chef's knife not really a dedicated slicer and 210mm is kind of on the short side depending on who you ask. If you want a dedicated slicer, look into sujihikis, 270mm is a good length.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:45
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:We need a knife thread so everyone can show off their knife porn. I could probably start one I guess, maybe we can crowdsource an OP on the wiki or something.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:52
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Something like this? http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar27su.html Most of the other sujihikis are a bit out of my price range. If it changes anything as far as length recommendations, my dedicated chefs knife is 12" and a monster, so if I were to need something excessively long, I could use my chef knife in a pinch. GrAviTy84 posted:I could probably start one I guess, maybe we can crowdsource an OP on the wiki or something. I'd love if you made a knife thread, you did great on the Chinese cooking OP.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:53
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People have been saying "we don't have a knife thread because everyone acted stupid last time we had one" for so long but whenever I see knife discussion it seems pretty informative and even-handed and I don't see any of the brand name arguments that supposedly happened in the past. I'd love to see a knife thread is what I'm saying. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 18:11
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Steve Yun posted:People have been saying "we don't have a knife thread because everyone acted stupid last time we had one" for so long but whenever I see knife discussion it seems pretty informative and open-minded and I don't see any of the brand name fanboyism that supposedly happened in the past. As long as said brand is Tojiro  E: can't believe not one comment on my knife excess. deimos fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 18:19
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I use my Victorinox 8" knife pretty much every day or every other day. I got it as a Christmas gift for Xmas 2011. Would it benefit me to have it professionally sharpened? I use my ceramic honing rod and it still seems quite sharp but it's been so long since I started using the knife that I can't remember what it was like when I first got it. Also I want to buy this even though I already have two 8" chef knives because my dad had a Henckel chef knife and it was superb.
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Jun 27, 2013 18:30
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This is the same forum where someone spent their prize money from a Chemistry competition on a Pacojet. Nothing surprises me anymore. fake edit: PF 
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Jun 27, 2013 18:31
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The Midniter posted:I use my Victorinox 8" knife pretty much every day or every other day. I got it as a Christmas gift for Xmas 2011. Would it benefit me to have it professionally sharpened? I use my ceramic honing rod and it still seems quite sharp but it's been so long since I started using the knife that I can't remember what it was like when I first got it. I have a Henckels B-grade Twin 4 Star II chef knife and it works really well. B-grades are a great deal.
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Jun 27, 2013 18:35
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I was gonna post that Watanabe are actually a very good introduction to carbon japanese knives with their set, but it seems their prices have gone up significantly, I bought a 5 piece set of their rough-finished "standard" knives for a friend for $125 and now I notice their 4 piece set is ~$220. Then again the set I bought had a different set of knives and no Santoku. (I think the set I got was Deba, Nakkiri, Ajikiri, Sashimi and Mukimono)
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Jun 27, 2013 19:01
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Invisible Ted posted:Something like this? http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar27su.html I use a carbon Fujiwara at work and like it a lot. The reason people suggest a long length for a slicer is because ideally you should be using long smooth strokes to cut with it, which you need a long knife to do on anything that isn't really small. Edit: I guess if we're on knifechat I'll list mine off too. At work I've got a 240mm Richmond Addict 2 gyuto, that Fujiwara sujihiki I linked, a global 8" santoku for fiddly stuff, a wusthof boning knife, and a paring knife I virtually never use atm. At home I've got the Wusthof classic 10" chef's that I retired when I got the gyuto, a bread knife, and another paring knife. Oh and of course the most essential kitchen tool of all: 
Thoht fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 19:06
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Keep in mind, if you need a knife for a specific need the japanese have probably invented it, IIRC there's ~150 types of japanese knives. Here's a short list of them. I've been seeing a few people mentioning Kiritsukes recently, although most people I've seen mention them are looking at double ground Kiritsukes which would make them not kiritsuke but some sort of mutant. e: I mean for gently caress's sake, they have a watermelon knife. deimos fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 19:41
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deimos posted:Keep in mind, if you need a knife for a specific need the japanese have probably invented it, IIRC there's ~150 types of japanese knives. Here's a short list of them. I have the tojiro itk kiritsuke. It's double ground. I flattened the belly and thinned behind the edge quite a bit because the factory grinds were really rough and uneven. Fantastic knife at $80, if you put some work into it.
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Jun 27, 2013 20:12
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:I have the tojiro itk kiritsuke. It's double ground. I flattened the belly and thinned behind the edge quite a bit because the factory grinds were really rough and uneven. Fantastic knife at $80, if you put some work into it. That's not a kiritsuke.
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Jun 27, 2013 20:17
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deimos posted:That's not a kiritsuke. Tojiro branded it that way! deimos posted:That's not a kiritsuke. Tojiro branded it that way! I would also contribute to a knife thread so hard. Whoever was asking about a slicer, get the Tojiro DP sujihike, thin it behind the edge a bit and you'll have a $120 knife that performs as well as something $400 and up.
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Jun 27, 2013 20:23
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Oh god, OH GOD, I've just been informed my old cuisinart blender died.
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Jun 27, 2013 21:38
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I picked up a poor man's Thermapen recently and I'm pretty happy with it.
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Jun 28, 2013 01:43
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Zeitgueist posted:I picked up a poor man's Thermapen recently and I'm pretty happy with it. Also, got my Moritaka knfie today and wow, gotta say Gravity was right - you can feel how brittle the blade feels in your hand. Scary... and maybe the #2 steel would have been a better buy, in retrospect. I'm articulating this because I never saw this opinion online, so I might as well be the first. However, it will probably teach me good habits, and cutting that onion I pulled out was pretty much a blast. I think we'll end up doing just fine, as long as I relegate my bones and squash to another knife. No Wave fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 05:13
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No Wave posted:It is sexual how much I love my thermapen. If I am ever cooking and cannot know the temperature of something instantly and reliably I want to break poo poo. I should say that while ao super is very hard to sharpen, it is also the longest wearing. That is to say, it will stay super sharp for way longer than the rest. It is a good choice for a gyuto. The brittleness/supersharp chat was re: slicers/sujihikes.
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Jun 28, 2013 05:28
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No Wave posted:I wasn't trying to shame anyone who had more knives - I was just trying to figure out the maximum number of knives where I'd reasonably use all of them in a year if I cooked a variety of foods on a very regular basis. I think it really depends a lot on how many knives you have, which is weird. Like I use maybe 6-8 knives on a regular (2-3 days a week) basis, but I mainly just use them because I have them. If you took my knives away from me and forced me to choose, the knives I'd be minimally happy with would be :
idk, that's just me though.
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Jun 28, 2013 06:52
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My edge faux is the business. Works perfectly - got my victorinox fillet de sole, (de)boner and chef's knife all down to 15 degrees, got my CCK down to 18. Also that poor man strop kit works great. I really like the balsa. Next - a slicer! I'm thinking 300mm.
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Jun 29, 2013 14:11
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