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Isn't Bobby dating Kitty? You'd think he'd be onto something like that? Or are the younger X-Men still hanging around and that's young Bobby? I gave up on X-Men when it seemed the new direction they were going with Cyclops (that I was really enjoying) was taking an uncomfortable "it's not my fauuuult!" turn.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:16
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Jerusalem posted:Isn't Bobby dating Kitty? You'd think he'd be onto something like that? Those crazy kids are still around, yes, and it's actually pretty good stuff. All-New AND Uncanny were exceptional this week.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:17
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Jerusalem posted:Isn't Bobby dating Kitty? You'd think he'd be onto something like that?
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Jun 27, 2013 04:17
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That panel seems so weird. It kinda reads like the writer was just struggling to find a way to *insert serious moment* and have the readers connect emotionally somehow. It just comes across clumsy and heavy-handed.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:26
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Drifter posted:That panel seems so weird. It kinda reads like the writer was just struggling to find a way to *insert serious moment* and have the readers connect emotionally somehow. It just comes across clumsy and heavy-handed.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:28
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CapnAndy posted:I'm guessing you haven't seen the rather offensive bit in Uncanny Avengers it's directly rebutting. How can you miss it? Marvel's reprinting it in the back of half their books.
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Jun 27, 2013 04:39
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Replace Mutant with Gay or any other group identifier and it's horribly offensive. Would love a picture of it done with Gay written there. I get Remenders point and it's a valid argument but holy poo poo seriously NO. Bendis's direct response in the Xmen was perfect I thought. I'm not going to change because of you , you change because of me. There's a reason that we say " Gay and Proud" its to not be absorbed into the classification you choose, the same way Queer was reclaimed. Sorry this is a sore subject for me and I found that speech horribly horribly offensive. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 04:47
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Hollis posted:Replace Mutant with Gay or any other group identifier and it's horribly offensive. Would love a picture of it done with Gay written there. I think Remender's point of view reflects a problem with Marvel's establishment of a mutant culture. Outside of, say, Jumbo Carnation and a couple references to "this thing happened," to my knowledge there's never been a great illustration of the things that make mutants unique as a community. Remender seems to approach it more from the perspective of addressing those with mental conditions, where speaking as one I'd rather be defined by my personhood, even including my sexuality, rather than my condition. It contradicts the established narrative but it's a mistake I could understand him making. Or maybe I'm just wrong. E: I wonder just how popular the X-Force/Statix were supposed to be. Would that constitute mutant culture or was it explicitly exploitative? t a s t e fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 05:04
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Tremendous Taste posted:Or maybe I'm just wrong. They tried to address that with Rogue taking offense to the speech and Havok's position being defended by saying there is no central mutant culture or community since mutants come from everywhere and can be anyone. Which is completely contradictory to all the established history of X-Men comics showing a pretty strong mutant community, and things like Jumbo Carnation and Morrison's other attempts to explore the concept of a mutant culture. The X-Books are all now either backpedaling and reframing the argument to make the speech not seem offensive, or other writers giving Remender a big middle finger.
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Jun 27, 2013 05:11
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CapnAndy posted:I'm guessing you haven't seen the rather offensive bit in Uncanny Avengers it's directly rebutting. Not until just now, but that seems like Remender was trying to make a positive point that unfortunately veered into naivete. It's standard unconscious majority privilege - just kinda overly simplifying the point he was trying to make. Unless Havok's character arc revolved around the dichotomy of his place in Mutantkind versus his ability to fit in to the 'normals' et cetera? I see where the author of that article was coming from, and it makes a lot of sense. My sense of Modern Marvel always has seemed that they have an amazing ability to create potentially awesome and socially challenging situations but only skim the surface of those situations. It's better business, I guess. On a little tl;dr thing here - I disagree a little with the author's statement and negative connotation that not acknowledging your minority identity means you're closeting yourself. That felt like a blanket statement even though if I chose to take the read strictly within the realm of discrimination the author was working in I'd agree with it. I think being closeted only applies when when you don't acknowledge your heritage for fear of retribution - for camouflage. It's a negatively connoted term that shouldn't apply if you simply have no preference or are apathetic. edit: as far as actually posting a picture - I've always loved Superman/Batman annual #1. This website has already nicely laid out the comic pages where Clark and Bruce figure out they're actually Batman & Superman. I love it because they're such dicks to each other the entire time. I also love the Deadpool/Deathstroke figure who gets killed multiple times - whenever I see the spatula sticking out of him I crack up.  Drifter fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 05:12
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Practical Demon posted:Which is completely contradictory to all the established history of X-Men comics showing a pretty strong mutant community, and things like Jumbo Carnation and Morrison's other attempts to explore the concept of a mutant culture. See, I don't think that's been illustrated or supported well, even in Morrison's work. *First mention* "This guy exists and is famous and even non-mutants love him" *Dies same issue* "What a loss, time to kill some humans." Is there a history of less hand-wavy establishment of a mutant culture I'm unaware of? Obviously as a mirror to minority identity and culture the X-books require there to be but just snapping the fingers to make it so would explain Remender's ignorance. t a s t e fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 27, 2013 |
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Jun 27, 2013 05:14
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Practical Demon posted:They tried to address that with Rogue taking offense to the speech and Havok's position being defended by saying there is no central mutant culture or community since mutants come from everywhere and can be anyone. Which doesn't work at all, since you can say exactly the same thing about gay people.
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Jun 27, 2013 05:17
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Basically Remender had a valid position he wanted Alex to make a stand on and utterly poo poo the bed on the execution, and now he's getting the raking-over-the-coals he has coming. Bendis expands slightly on it on tumblr, it's a pretty direct f-you.
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Jun 27, 2013 05:23
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Practical Demon posted:They tried to address that with Rogue taking offense to the speech and Havok's position being defended by saying there is no central mutant culture or community since mutants come from everywhere and can be anyone. Which is completely contradictory to all the established history of X-Men comics showing a pretty strong mutant community, and things like Jumbo Carnation and Morrison's other attempts to explore the concept of a mutant culture. How can you not blame Quesada for the loss of the mutant culture narrative? "NO MORE MUTANTS!" If the actual minority narrative had been allowed to continue, who knows what we'd have ended up with, or what authors like Bendis and Remender would've done with it? If anyone wants to argue this further I'll be back later, I need to go ~sell my dreams~  (Issue #3)
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Jun 27, 2013 06:18
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Super hero/villain tech support.    What are this guy's powers, you ask?  Young Avengers #6
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Jun 27, 2013 06:32
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David Alleyne is now my favorite mutant.
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Jun 27, 2013 06:40
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The worst thing House of M did was end Academy X. I miss Prodigy and all those characters a lot.
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Jun 27, 2013 06:42
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That final,"I know lots of stuff  " is just beautiful 
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Jun 27, 2013 07:09
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Hahah, that's like a way better take on Lyla Miller or Rogue.
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Jun 27, 2013 08:07
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He must have lots and lots of blowjob skills that he tries not to think about.
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Jun 27, 2013 09:45
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If he's learned everything Emma knows, blowjobs are far from the most embarrassing thing he is good at.
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Jun 27, 2013 09:56
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So he's basically the mutant version of Mark Zuckerberg's facebook powers.
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Jun 27, 2013 09:59
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Defiance Industries posted:If he's learned everything Emma knows, blowjobs are far from the most embarrassing thing he is good at. Hey, there's nothing wrong with being the best at what you do.  Even if what you do is blowjobs.
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Jun 27, 2013 10:09
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Hollis posted:Replace Mutant with Gay or any other group identifier and it's horribly offensive. Would love a picture of it done with Gay written there. 
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Jun 27, 2013 14:44
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Christmas Jones posted:How can you not blame Quesada for the loss of the mutant culture narrative? "NO MORE MUTANTS!" I felt Joe's best work while in charge, and a glaring example of this, is NYX. Young mutants on the streets with no support group but themselves, untouched by any sort of outreach. Personally, I think it's great to pull mutants out of a group identity with their absurd aliases and sartorial bed making GBS threads, but he really did tear them apart from the seams all in pursuit of a dollar and cheap yet fully expected shock.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:19
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I'm not at all convinced the whole mutant culture narrative would've been the next logical step for X-Men if Quesada hadn't forced M-day. As was said earlier, Morrison barely just laid the foundation for it. Jumbo Carnation appeared in like three pages and we were told he was a big deal, but that's not really a big enough seed that could have determined the future of X-Men as a franchise. I'm sorry, but most of the books that came about as a result of House of M have been way better than the books that came in-between Morrison's X-Men and HoM, so I think "what could've been" is a completely moot point.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:50
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Hey, can someone post the scene of the DOOMHERBIES discussing Daft Punk? I need a new facebook background.
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Jun 28, 2013 02:25
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Hakkesshu posted:I'm not at all convinced the whole mutant culture narrative would've been the next logical step for X-Men if Quesada hadn't forced M-day. As was said earlier, Morrison barely just laid the foundation for it. Jumbo Carnation appeared in like three pages and we were told he was a big deal, but that's not really a big enough seed that could have determined the future of X-Men as a franchise. I'm sorry, but most of the books that came about as a result of House of M have been way better than the books that came in-between Morrison's X-Men and HoM, so I think "what could've been" is a completely moot point. It was doomed at the start because it's a generally a lovely idea for the universal stand in for any and all minorities to develop a distinct culture. When you define what mutants are culturally you lose the ability to plug them in for whatever minority culture the story needs them to be.
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Jun 28, 2013 12:29
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SirDan3k posted:It was doomed at the start because it's a generally a lovely idea for the universal stand in for any and all minorities to develop a distinct culture. When you define what mutants are culturally you lose the ability to plug them in for whatever minority culture the story needs them to be. I'm not sure I agree, especially when the alternative was decimation, which destroyed a whole bunch of possible allegories.
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Jun 28, 2013 14:22
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SirDan3k posted:It was doomed at the start because it's a generally a lovely idea for the universal stand in for any and all minorities to develop a distinct culture. When you define what mutants are culturally you lose the ability to plug them in for whatever minority culture the story needs them to be.
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Jun 28, 2013 15:26
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Soonmot posted:Hey, can someone post the scene of the DOOMHERBIES discussing Daft Punk? I need a new facebook background. 
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Jun 28, 2013 15:36
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CapnAndy posted:Basically Remender had a valid position he wanted Alex to make a stand on and utterly poo poo the bed on the execution, and now he's getting the raking-over-the-coals he has coming. It seems like a bunch of people are confused over how comics work. Havok is a character with a point of view while Kitty is another character with a point of view. What has Remender got to do with anything??? Writers write positive and negative stuff every month when presenting different points of views for the chacters they bring to life.
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Jun 28, 2013 21:14
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You don't think a work of fiction can reveal the personal politics of the author?
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Jun 28, 2013 21:21
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caboodle posted:What has Remender got to do with anything???
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Jun 28, 2013 21:47
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Mr. Squishy posted:You don't think a work of fiction can reveal the personal politics of the author? No one tell him about Fables.
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Jun 28, 2013 21:47
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whatsabattle posted:No one tell him about Fables. Or Frank Miller's work post 9/11
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Jun 28, 2013 21:50
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caboodle posted:It seems like a bunch of people are confused over how comics work. Writers don't just have characters spout idealogies for no reason. Speeches like that have a purpose in a story. Havok is the leader, making a statement about the issue at the heart of the book, it's very clear that we're meant to be on his side here. I mean it's possible this is a story about how Havok is an idiot who really doesn't understand how to deal with this situation, but that's not how the issue was presented at all. I mean honestly, what do you think the chances are of that happening, realistically?
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Jun 28, 2013 22:06
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Ghostlight posted:Remender was the one who decided that Havok would have a point of view, what point of view that was, how he would express it, and ultimately Remender was the one who told people who disagreed with Havok's extremely privileged and socially unconscious position to drown themselves in hobo piss. WordMercenary posted:Writers don't just have characters spout idealogies for no reason. Speeches like that have a purpose in a story. Havok is the leader, making a statement about the issue at the heart of the book, it's very clear that we're meant to be on his side here. I can't reiterate this enough, the writers job is to put words in the mouth of the characters. If all the characters had the same belief then there would be no conflict and we might as well be reading DC comics. If writers believed EVERYTHING they wrote, then the writers of the Red Skull or Dr Doom would be sick puppies. If this freaks you out, wait until you start reading books!!!
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Jun 29, 2013 01:48
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caboodle posted:I can't reiterate this enough, the writers job is to put words in the mouth of the characters. yes but remender specifically went out and said that this was his belief on twitter Or, you know, we're all just loving idiots. One of the two.
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Jun 29, 2013 01:50
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caboodle posted:I can't reiterate this enough, the writers job is to put words in the mouth of the characters. Well you can restate it all you want, but it doesn't make it anymore interesting or relevant to the discussion.
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Jun 29, 2013 02:16
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