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syzygy86 posted:Taking minutes to to alt-tab sounds like a different problem. Desktop responsiveness has nothing to do with VT-d (although you can passthrough a video card, its a non-trivial setup). Nope. You are wrong. VT-d causes drastic performance differences. I can invite you over to my house, have you watch me enable and disable VT-d in the BIOS on various laptops and desktops, and observe the performance differences if you'd like. I didn't say alt+tabbing takes minutes. Pressing the Windows key in Unity and then typing "terminal" might end up hanging for minutes sometimes, on the right versions of Ubuntu. Alt-tabbing merely takes between some noticeable amount of lag and a few seconds of lag, depending on desktop environment.
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 21:17 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:12 |
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NeoSeeker posted:Yeah I really don't care about having to lower settings or anything. And thinking about it more I guess you're right about it being to heavy and unwieldy. Although I do know about traveling weighed down by stuff, 8 pounds ain't poo poo. But I guess I'll just go with the lenovo Y500 and build a new machine before star citizen comes out. http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8250-clevo-p157sm-p-5839.html?wconfigure=yes
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 21:54 |
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QuarkJets posted:What's worst about gaming laptops is that Haswell's integrated graphics are so good that you could easily get by with just that and claim to have a "gaming" machine in something light and thin. You just don't get to have the pretentious joy of being able to play AAA titles at 60 fps at max quality, you have to scale back a bunch of settings instead. But while I can make due with running something like Civ 5 on low settings now, I want be able to run Civ 6 on really low settings in the future. :V I'm going to wait for the W230ST or whatever it's called. Yeah, short battery life. But I honestly don't care about battery life, if there's not a power outlet nearby I'm probably not in an area where I'd want to use a laptop for four hours anyways. edit: And like the Iris Pro 5200 looks like an awesome cross between efficiency and gpu power, doesn't seem like a whole lot of promising laptops are using it yet. I'd probably buy a Thinkpad with one in a flash, but it doesn't seem like they're going to do a refresh with them anytime soon. Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jun 29, 2013 |
# ? Jun 29, 2013 22:09 |
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NeoSeeker posted:Yeah I really don't care about having to lower settings or anything. And thinking about it more I guess you're right about it being to heavy and unwieldy. Although I do know about traveling weighed down by stuff, 8 pounds ain't poo poo. But I guess I'll just go with the lenovo Y500 and build a new machine before star citizen comes out. Unless something has changed, the Y500 has the 650M, right? GT3e/HD5200 Pro/Haswell nearly matches that performance and will drastically increase your battery life since you eliminate the power draw of the GPU. If you can, wait until early August when Back to School sales have started and Haswell laptops are more prolific. You'll spend less and get more.
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 22:22 |
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The Y500 has an SLI 750M now, which seems nice if you can get it for $900-$1000. But, y'know. It's still an Y500.
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 22:26 |
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Mutation posted:Oh yeah, I remember the awesome days of somehow playing Team Fortress 2 on low specs on a 2008 Thinkpad. It looked charmingly like a PSX title, but it ran super smooth for whatever reason. With Haswell you should already be able to run Civ 5 at much better than really low settings. The Civ series doesn't make particularly huge leaps in graphics requirements, a Haswell would probably be able to run Civ 6 in a few years on really low settings but at half the price of an mGPU top of the line gaming laptop
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 22:35 |
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Mutation posted:The Y500 has an SLI 750M now, which seems nice if you can get it for $900-$1000. The one universal no is SLI laptops
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 22:37 |
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QuarkJets posted:With Haswell you should already be able to run Civ 5 at much better than really low settings. The Civ series doesn't make particularly huge leaps in graphics requirements, a Haswell would probably be able to run Civ 6 in a few years on really low settings but at half the price of an mGPU top of the line gaming laptop And yeah, SLI in a laptop is a hilarious way to part a fool from his money. Due to thermal issues, most SLI setups are not all that much faster than their single-card versions, while being more expensive and managing worse thermals.
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 23:03 |
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Aww crap. I just saw that a new version of the XPS 12 is coming with Haswell, 'in the coming weeks'. Articles were saying that around June 3rd. I really hope it comes out by the time my employee membership bonus 17% comes in two weeks on July 6th. Edit: Engadget article from June 4th says it begins to ship in most regions July 9th. That would work perfectly for me. So, to recap: XPS 12 with Haswell, that brings battery life from 5-6 hours to 8-9 hours and a "1.6 times" performance increase will tentatively release July 9th at the same price. Oh, and NFC. Revol fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 29, 2013 |
# ? Jun 29, 2013 23:10 |
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DrDork posted:I can (and do) run Civ5 at 1600x900 on my T430 w/GF630 equivalent. You have to turn a few of the graphics options down, but it doesn't really make a big difference. Honestly, the crushing part of Civ 5 is how long it takes for AI civs to take their turns during end-game. We're talking a minute plus. So yeah, pretty much anything you get these days will be able to run Civ 5 as far as the graphics department goes. Exactly; Civ has never been a GPU-intensive game, it just needs a lot of CPU power for crunching all of that end of game action
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# ? Jun 29, 2013 23:43 |
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Okay fine, the Civ series are well optimized for laptops. :p I'd also like to be able to play Battlefield 5 / Destiny on very low settings in the future. Point is, I want to future proof my laptop to play entertaining future games at reasonably ugly settings.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 00:06 |
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Mutation posted:Okay fine, the Civ series are well optimized for laptops. :p Please don't say the f-word in a computer thread. The only way to do this is spend less money now and buy a new computer when a game you can't play comes out.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 00:24 |
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Mutation posted:Okay fine, the Civ series are well optimized for laptops. :p You literally cannot do this. New consoles removing the artificial restrictions on software development limits mean your laptop will be an outdated boat anchor in two year's time. This is only even *remotely* possible if you get something like a 780M, but then you've got a desktop replacement and not a laptop.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 00:26 |
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Mutation posted:I'd also like to be able to play Battlefield 5 / Destiny on very low settings in the future. Think about it. 2 years ago a $1500 gaming laptop would have had something like a GTS 360M. Today that's about equivalent to a 630/635/640M LE depending on the game. That means it'd be only slightly faster (if at all) than the HD4600 IGP that some Haswell processors are packing--and obviously the CPU is slower and battery performance a crap-ton worse. With Intel taking graphics performance seriously, this scenario is likely to repeat itself. So, yeah.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 01:18 |
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Mutation posted:Point is, I want to future proof my laptop to play entertaining future games at reasonably ugly settings. That is literally impossible. The way to future proof a desktop is... well, it's inherent. Future proof is either upgradability, or buying an outrageous $1000 video card that is still only a few years ahead of what we have now. Otherwise, you can only get the best you can get now, and hope that it lasts as long as possible. For the kinds of games you're talking about, that can be very difficult. A few years ago, it would've been another story. But the next generation of consoles are influencing these new games, and we simply don't know what these games will bring to the PC. I think the best game you can try to gauge this with is Witcher 2. The PC version of this game is, in many ways, a next-generation console game. So much of next-generation console graphics are going to be dealing with filters and atmospheric effects. Witcher 2 PC has this in spades, while the console version does not. I imagine the kind of graphics features that Witcher 2 PC saw are going to become standard for next-generation gaming, and will even be taken to the next level.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 01:24 |
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Fine, I'll buy a lousy Haswell Thinkpad.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 02:33 |
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shrughes posted:Nope. You are wrong. VT-d causes drastic performance differences. I can invite you over to my house, have you watch me enable and disable VT-d in the BIOS on various laptops and desktops, and observe the performance differences if you'd like. I didn't say alt+tabbing takes minutes. Pressing the Windows key in Unity and then typing "terminal" might end up hanging for minutes sometimes, on the right versions of Ubuntu. Alt-tabbing merely takes between some noticeable amount of lag and a few seconds of lag, depending on desktop environment. Are you sure the setting you're toggling is VT-d? Can you provide links to information that can show these supposed drastic performance differences? The Unity dash is slow as hell when you don't have 3D support in the VM. If you have 3D support, which doesn't require VT-d, it'll run just dandy (although other desktop environments are generally faster anyway). You might want to read up on what VT-d actually is before you claim it provides drastic performance increases for basic desktop responsiveness.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 05:35 |
Mutation posted:Fine, I'll buy a lousy Haswell Thinkpad. Why not buy a nice Haswell Thinkpad?
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 05:52 |
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syzygy86 posted:Are you sure the setting you're toggling is VT-d? Can you provide links to information that can show these supposed drastic performance differences? The Unity dash is slow as hell when you don't have 3D support in the VM. If you have 3D support, which doesn't require VT-d, it'll run just dandy (although other desktop environments are generally faster anyway). You might want to read up on what VT-d actually is before you claim it provides drastic performance increases for basic desktop responsiveness. When I last checked this, I had 3D support turned on, graphics memory slid up to 128 MB, with 3D acceleration enabled, running a Unity VM in Virtualbox, and turning on and off VT-d resulted in the drastic performance differences in a full-screened VM. I just checked again today on a different machine, and in Ubuntu 12.04, neither 3D settings nor VT-d in any combination had any effect on performance! Turning 3D acceleration on and off, tweaking its memory allocated to it, didn't change anything. Note that the VT-d performance difference came with the observation that the differences were much more visible in VirtualBox than VMware Player. So that's at least _part_ of where to assign blame. I'm now running a newer version of VirtualBox than before, and maybe that's what eliminated the differences.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 11:03 |
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I know you guys love Yoga 13" and MBA 13" but what is the consensus on which to go with (both seem similarly priced). Is it the debate between touchscreen Yoga with its "modes" of operation versus mac OSX and itunes or is there more to it? EDIT: seems haswell is the difference so is MBA 13" def recommended over Yoga when in comparison if you don't care about windows vs mac osx? SoggyGravy fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jun 30, 2013 |
# ? Jun 30, 2013 13:22 |
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I lack the ability to filter through the specs and see if a laptop is what I'd want: the Lenovo Y510p looks like a good candidate (even if I'd have to somehow import it from the USA). I'd use it for running a bunch of VMs, light coding tasks, network administration mostly. Considering a T430 is 1200-1500 Euro here in Italy, managing to smuggle one of those at 900$ would be a steal. Edit: or a Y410p.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 13:47 |
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I've basically decided that I want one of the new Macbook Airs, but now I need to choose exactly which type. I want 13" and 8gb ram for sure, but I don't know whether to go for the i5 or the i7. I also don't know whether the 128gb ssd would be big enough, or whether I should spend the extra for the 256gb. Any advice? Cost is a big issue; with education discount and applecare the i5/128gb is $1511, i5/256gb is $1707, i7/128gb is $1668, and the i7/256gb is $1978.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 14:21 |
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If cost is a big issue then don't get a MacBook Air. Anyway the 256GB upgrade is infinitely more useful than the i7 upgrade.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 14:42 |
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Schmetterling posted:I've basically decided that I want one of the new Macbook Airs, but now I need to choose exactly which type. I want 13" and 8gb ram for sure, but I don't know whether to go for the i5 or the i7. I also don't know whether the 128gb ssd would be big enough, or whether I should spend the extra for the 256gb. Any advice? You can also just buy the Applecare later. You have a year to get it. I would buy the i5/256gigs. The i7 isn't worth it unless you know you need it.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 14:59 |
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SoggyGravy posted:I know you guys love Yoga 13" and MBA 13" but what is the consensus on which to go with (both seem similarly priced). Is it the debate between touchscreen Yoga with its "modes" of operation versus mac OSX and itunes or is there more to it? If you ask me, MBA 100% over the Yoga. Touch is dumb. Ideapads aren't particularly great, and the Yoga I saw didn't impress me much.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 15:00 |
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shrughes posted:If cost is a big issue then don't get a MacBook Air. Thing is, in Australia it's equally as expensive to get a Thinkpad or Dell. So I thought I'd go with a pretty one. Mu Zeta posted:You can also just buy the Applecare later. You have a year to get it. I hadn't thought of that! Would I still be able to get the education discount if I leave it for a while?
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 15:27 |
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Yes. You can just do it at any Apple Store if you bring proof you're in college. edit: I'm assuming it's the same in Australia, but I don't think you guys have official Apple Stores yet. You could probably just get it at the Apple online store,
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 15:34 |
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I'm looking for a laptop with alot of power and durability, and I don't want to import a laptop due to keyboard differences and 25% VAT. I'll be using the laptop for school and gaming. I've been browsing a bit and I'd like some feedback on these: Acer Aspire V3-772G http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=779552#extra
I'm linking to the Norwegian site because when I checked newegg and some other sites and the specs were different. I was going to link to a google translated version of the site, but the tabs on the site hosed it up so it didn't work. Translating it with google chrome works though. I'm concerned about the build quality, I have no experience with MSI laptops and very little experience with Acer aspire laptops. I don't want any screws to come loose or the screen to loosen and flop back and forth easily. One of the worst ones I've had to endure was an acer travelmate(I think it was a 2420), the screen would move several centimeters and it looked like the screen was about to fall off. Gnamra fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jun 30, 2013 |
# ? Jun 30, 2013 16:09 |
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My parents are in dire need of a good laptop and since I'm keen on the haswell processors I figured I can clean up my current laptop which will do just fine for my parents needs, and get myself a new one. (Current one has i7 sandybrige and a 540M) I will never buy an ASUS laptop again though. Hardware is great but the bloatware ruined my laptop from day one. Explore.exe crashed whenever I tried to enter the C drive so I couldn't access the hdd at all. All thanks to ASUS Webstorage. I should've formatted it from the start which I will do from now on but still. gently caress you ASUS, I expect my damned laptop to at least WORK when I first start it. Thinking of getting a fancy MSI GE60 with the new haswell i7 and a 750M or whatever it is called. It costs.. ~$1386. Converted from the Swedish price so don't be surprised at the price. Here's the translated store page for the full specs: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.komplett.se%2Fk%2Fki.aspx%3Fsku%3D781361 There is a slightly cheaper version of the same laptop with a 660M and an i5 ivy bridge. I bet the 750M is just a rebranded 660M though. Anyone have any opinion about MSI? Seems like a pretty solid laptop. It is just hard to find reviews on specific laptops since there are a million variatons of each.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 16:24 |
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Mutation posted:Point is, I want to future proof my laptop to play entertaining future games at reasonably ugly settings. Nope. Not going to happen. The closest thing you can do to "future proof" your laptop is to buy a high end laptop 2-3 years after a major console release, i.e. 2008 or 2016, when mobile hardware catches up to the current generation of console hardware. Buying a "gaming laptop" six months before they release a new generation of console hardware (which pegs the system requirements for 6-8 years) is pretty much the absolute worst time to buy in to a non-upgradable mobile gaming platform. At the absolute minimum, if you have to, limp along your existing device at least until next summer, or get a tablet until then. TL;DR right now-this winter is the absolute lowest point on the price/gaming longevity value curve
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 17:43 |
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Hadlock posted:Nope. Not going to happen. Uh, what. Laptops can be more powerful than next generation consoles already. Don't get me wrong I like consoles but having to wait until 2016 to get a gaming laptop doesn't make sense.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 18:45 |
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Gnamra posted:I'm looking for a laptop with alot of power and durability, and I don't want to import a laptop due to keyboard differences and 25% VAT. I'll be using the laptop for school and gaming. I've been browsing a bit and I'd like some feedback on these: What games are you going to play? Are you thinking of using your laptop in class/at the library or is it going to stay on your desk?
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 18:46 |
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Torabi posted:Uh, what. Laptops can be more powerful than next generation consoles already. Don't get me wrong I like consoles but having to wait until 2016 to get a gaming laptop doesn't make sense. Yeah, on paper. In reality, the console can focus all of its compute power towards a single, specific goal because the entire thing- the hardware, the OS, and the software- is dedicated to doing that single specific task. A computer has to deal with hundreds of pieces of background bullshit in Windows/OSX, what amounts to a series of maybe-stable hacks that we call drivers for multiple pieces of hardware, and on top of that, deal with a game that may or may not even be optimized for the architecture it's being played on. Buying a gaming laptop any time in the next year is, actually, probably stupid idea as instead of just a bad one.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 18:59 |
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InstantInfidel posted:Yeah, on paper. In reality, the console can focus all of its compute power towards a single, specific goal because the entire thing- the hardware, the OS, and the software- is dedicated to doing that single specific task. A computer has to deal with hundreds of pieces of background bullshit in Windows/OSX, what amounts to a series of maybe-stable hacks that we call drivers for multiple pieces of hardware, and on top of that, deal with a game that may or may not even be optimized for the architecture it's being played on. Perhaps. I'd rather not wait that long since I do other things and I have a stationary pc for gaming. My current laptop that I consider kinda crap runs far cry 3 on mediun/high. Gnamra posted:
That's the one I'm looking at too. Unsure about build quality as well. Boar It fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 30, 2013 |
# ? Jun 30, 2013 19:17 |
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InstantInfidel posted:Buying a gaming laptop any time in the next year is, actually, probably stupid idea as instead of just a bad one. Gaming laptops usually can't play AAA titles on high/max settings for more than a year or two anyhow, and new consoles dropping won't really change that--if you buy now, it'll be another ~12 months before you really see games pushing the hardware you bought, and after that you'll start seeing your laptop's age. Buy in a year and you just start the same thing shifted by a year: you'll get ~12 months of being able to play whatever with good performance, and then slip and slide your way into obsolescence at about the two year mark. You can't future-proof your laptop, but at the same time waiting doesn't really buy you a whole lot, either.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 19:55 |
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Torabi posted:Perhaps. I'd rather not wait that long since I do other things and I have a stationary pc for gaming. My current laptop that I consider kinda crap runs far cry 3 on mediun/high.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 19:57 |
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Torabi posted:
Anandtech reviewed a larger version of that and had very negative things to say. I linked to the review in the last couple of pages. The CPU's also going to outstrip the GPU, you'd be fine with an i5 if you're going with the 750M, unless you plan to do anything CPU intensive.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 20:04 |
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DrDork posted:Then why are you considering getting a gaming laptop? Get a solid middle of the road laptop for half the price and when in a year you find a game that it doesn't run as perfectly as you'd like, play it on your desktop. It's because I'm an idiot who wants a Haswell laptop and so far there are only gaming laptops with it so far. InstantInfidel posted:Anandtech reviewed a larger version of that and had very negative things to say. I linked to the review in the last couple of pages. The CPU's also going to outstrip the GPU, you'd be fine with an i5 if you're going with the 750M, unless you plan to do anything CPU intensive. Well that sucks. I like to fiddle with 3ds max and Adobe programs so an i7 sure would be nice. Boar It fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 30, 2013 |
# ? Jun 30, 2013 20:19 |
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fookolt posted:What games are you going to play? Are you thinking of using your laptop in class/at the library or is it going to stay on your desk? I will be playing World of Warcraft, and probably some more demanding games. I will be using my laptop in class, yes. However I will be using and developing quite resource intensive programs in school, I want a powerful laptop because I'm a bit stingy when it comes to FPS in games. I'll be traveling a bit and I don't want to have drag my stationary pc across Norway each time, spending the extra money on a powerful laptop is worth the trouble it saves me. Gnamra fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 30, 2013 |
# ? Jun 30, 2013 21:29 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:12 |
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Mu Zeta posted:You can also just buy the Applecare later. You have a year to get it. If you live in Florida, you can't buy Applecare after the fact. It must be bought at time of computer purchase. It's some stupid state law. That's what I was told by Apple when I tried that once.
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# ? Jun 30, 2013 21:53 |