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Aargh posted:There was an ad in Australia "All day, every day, high oon day" And there was an add in the US during a Super Bowl that said "Hyundai, rhymes with Sunday". This is all too confusing now.
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Jul 2, 2013 12:47
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You lot need to learn proper English  When I heard they were going to be driving NZ, I was excited. When I saw them doing the North Island, I was sad. Seriously, the roads on the South Island are amazing. Like Swiss/Austrian Alps amazing. Of course Jeremy going nuts on one of those roads with his Toyota as he did on the North roads, it would've ended up with a funeral. Otherwise it was a relatively dull TG episode. The Fiesta ST has my interest though. I read Jeremy's review of it in a newspaper and it sounded great.
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Jul 2, 2013 13:00
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I didn't even realize there was a new series til yesterday afternoon! Guess I should check this thread a bit more often; I'd just assumed there wouldn't be another one til the Fall for some reason. Anyway, good to see them back!
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Jul 2, 2013 16:11
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I was entertained for an hour of my life. Not gonna complain about that.
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Jul 2, 2013 16:23
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You Am I posted:You lot need to learn proper English The Fiesta ST is great. I got a chance to beat on one this past weekend (along with the Focus ST) and had an absolute blast with it. We had 4 of the (supposed) 12 Fiesta STs in the country. It won't win you any drag races, but it'll lift a tire in the corners and put a big smile on your face. Don't forget that the US version is getting 2 more doors and 20 more horsepower. Boaz MacPhereson fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 17:56
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:The Fiesta ST is great. I got a chance to beat on one this past weekend (along with the Focus ST) and had an absolute blast with it. We had 4 of the (supposed) 12 Fiesta STs in the country. It won't win you any drag races, but it'll lift a tire in the corners and put a big smile on your face. Don't forget that the US version is getting 2 more doors and 20 more horsepower. I'm very interested in hearing more about this. I might be in the market for a car in the somewhat near future, and both STs are really intriguing to me. Have a favorite (or any other impressions)?
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Jul 2, 2013 18:12
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Grumpwagon posted:I'm very interested in hearing more about this. I might be in the market for a car in the somewhat near future, and both STs are really intriguing to me. Have a favorite (or any other impressions)? We had a small course set up in a parking lot. My first 2 laps were in the Focus and the second 2 were in the Fiesta. I ran a tenth faster in the Focus, but it would have probably been more significant if I had a couple more laps to get a little more familiar with the car. The Focus seemed to have been putting up regularly faster times, but never by much of a margin. Overall, they drive really similarly. Yes, the Fiesta is down on power compared to the Focus, but it's also about 500 pounds lighter (allegedly). I've always said that I would never own a FWD car because I've driven some and I don't like the way they behave (torque-steer, crazy understeer, weight shifting off the drive wheels on acceleration, etc), but I might change my mind if I found one that really impressed me. Long story short, I want a Focus. When I buried the throttle in second, no torque steer. Hard turn-in, no understeer. The Fiesta behaved pretty similarly, but I'd have to say I prefer the Focus for the extra grunt. Also, the Fiesta was a bit on the small side for me (6'1") and the seats were just a hair on the narrow side, but the Focus was roomy enough to be comfortable. So again, I never thought I'd really say this about a FWD car, but I want to own a Focus ST. Edit: Also, I wish the Molten Orange paint on the Fiesta was available for the Focus, but it's not. Boaz MacPhereson fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 19:06
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:I've always said that I would never own a FWD car because I've driven some and I don't like the way they behave (torque-steer, crazy understeer, weight shifting off the drive wheels on acceleration, etc), but I might change my mind if I found one that really impressed me. Long story short, I want a Focus. When I buried the throttle in second, no torque steer. Hard turn-in, no understeer. Welcome to the world of well-sorted FWD cars. I couldn't believe the difference when I went from a tiny economy-focused hatchback to a slightly older but much more well-sorted car, it was like night and day. Still feels a bit odd how much 'looser' or 'softer' the independent rear suspension is compared to torsion beam suspension, but I'm getting used to it and it's so much more settled over mid-corner bumps, it just sort of floats over them in comparison. Remember that the old Fiesta ST only had 150hp from a naturally-aspirated 2.0, the new one has a lot more grunt. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 19:23
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There's no real reason for FWD cars to understeer that's inherent to the drivetrain. It's just that in the modern era at least, all the boring floaty commuter cars that are built to a price point are FWD, whereas the sports cars are almost exclusively RWD or longitudinal AWD. Of course the sports cars are going to be setup for (generally) neutral handling, so we get the impression that all RWD cars handle well; my mom's Lexus refutes this quite handily. Having the entire drivetrain up front contributes, of course, but as with most performance things it all comes down to the springy bits in the end.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:26
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Fucknag posted:There's no real reason for FWD cars to understeer that's inherent to the drivetrain. It's just that in the modern era at least, all the boring floaty commuter cars that are built to a price point are FWD, whereas the sports cars are almost exclusively RWD or longitudinal AWD. Of course the sports cars are going to be setup for (generally) neutral handling, so we get the impression that all RWD cars handle well; my mom's Lexus refutes this quite handily. Having the entire drivetrain up front contributes, of course, but as with most performance things it all comes down to the springy bits in the end. Then I will state here that Ford has its springy bits figured-the-gently caress-out.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:27
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:Then I will state here that Ford has its springy bits figured-the-gently caress-out. Pretty much since they debuted their control blade rear suspension on the original Focus. It forced VW to put independent rear suspension on the Golf, same story with a lot of other manufacturers. They suddenly realized that good handling and comfort didn't have to be mutually exclusive.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:46
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:We had a small course set up in a parking lot. My first 2 laps were in the Focus and the second 2 were in the Fiesta. I ran a tenth faster in the Focus, but it would have probably been more significant if I had a couple more laps to get a little more familiar with the car. The Focus seemed to have been putting up regularly faster times, but never by much of a margin. Overall, they drive really similarly. Yes, the Fiesta is down on power compared to the Focus, but it's also about 500 pounds lighter (allegedly). Out of curiosity, how did the acceleration feel? I keep thinking about one, but I don't want to go for a test drive and slam on the gas like an idiot considering I won't be buying the test drive car, likely. I'd be moving from a 370z, so I'm expecting to lose some excitement -- but I'd like to at least feel like I'm going fast when I press the fun pedal.
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Jul 2, 2013 20:09
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nutnmunch posted:Out of curiosity, how did the acceleration feel? I keep thinking about one, but I don't want to go for a test drive and slam on the gas like an idiot considering I won't be buying the test drive car, likely. Get it to proper operating temperature and slam on the gas all you want. It's a test drive for a car you're going to spend thousands of dollars on, you need to test it under all the conditions you are going to use it in. If you don't, how can you know if you like it?
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Jul 2, 2013 20:30
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nutnmunch posted:Out of curiosity, how did the acceleration feel? I keep thinking about one, but I don't want to go for a test drive and slam on the gas like an idiot considering I won't be buying the test drive car, likely. Acceleration (a bit moreso with the Focus) is absolutely present. I was very pleasantly surprised at how well it put me back in the seat.
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Jul 2, 2013 20:36
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What concerns me about modern FWD is whether you can left-foot brake for roundabouts etc - or at least, if it's programmed to cut throttle on brake application, if it's something that can be removed by the service guys. Also, the usual "If traction control/ESP is turned off, is it off?" question.
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Jul 2, 2013 20:44
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pik_d posted:And there was an add in the US during a Super Bowl that said "Hyundai, rhymes with Sunday". This is all too confusing now. Mystery solved!
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Jul 3, 2013 11:38
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MechPlasma posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0UovyM8Ni0&t=10s Eat poo poo 
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Jul 3, 2013 14:13
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jul 3, 2013 14:26
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I really liked the new episode, some game of thrones content, Jimmy Carr, that gorgeous boat, pretty much all good. Clarkson being a loving idiot about wind power was sort of forced and groan inducing though, like we get it, you have a persona and you need to pander to your base but shuuuuut uppppp.
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Jul 3, 2013 15:21
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It's funny, because Jeremy owns a organic farm. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-05-09/top-gears-jeremy-clarkson-i-love-the-idea-of-being-a-farmer
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Jul 3, 2013 18:15
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sincx posted:I believe Kanye West was the first to come up with this Hyundai-Sunday-Super Bowl connection. Nah, it goes back to when they first started importing to North America in the 80s. I remember cheery ads for Hyundai Ponys or whatever in Canada where they told you that it rhymes with Sunday, because stupid roundeye couldn't figure out how to pronounce it I guess. I guess they never ran that campaign in Britain though, they must have realized the futility of trying to tell a brit how to pronounce anything.
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Jul 3, 2013 19:13
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Well, of course not. Honestly, you do get some silly ideas into your heads.
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Jul 3, 2013 19:24
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Powershift posted:I don't know, that review kinda made me want a fiesta ST, i just wish it was priced a little more reasonably here, i mean, for $400 more you can get a fusion with the same drivetrain. Isn't that sort of the point of the ST? Sort of the muscle car logic, the motor from your bigger cars stuck in the small one for fun? The Fusion has more than an extra foot in between the axles and another 600 pounds, it's not exactly a peppy handling machine like the Fiesta. Fucknag posted:There's no real reason for FWD cars to understeer that's inherent to the drivetrain. I would say the simple physics problem of tires only having so much traction to give does make it at least somewhat inherent. As you note the drivetrain packaging contributes as well as the fact that FWD tends to be found on cheap cars, but even if you were to build a mid-engine FWD with perfect balance and low polar moment you'd still have traction as an understeer-causing factor when on power and turning. There's no doubt that good engineering can tune out most of the problems and have done so to the point that in a good vehicle under normal driving conditions there's no reason to really care which wheels are doing the work, but in the end if you have more power than tire in a corner FWD understeers and RWD oversteers.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:16
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wolrah posted:Isn't that sort of the point of the ST? Sort of the muscle car logic, the motor from your bigger cars stuck in the small one for fun? The Fusion has more than an extra foot in between the axles and another 600 pounds, it's not exactly a peppy handling machine like the Fiesta. It's the point of any hot hatch, really. Previous gen ST? Take the motor from a Focus, throw it in a Fiesta with stiffer suspension and voila! You're right about the FWD understeer being inherent, but for most everyday cars it's not really an issue. Once you get to 200-250hp though (and the associated torque), you start having problems. The Mazdaspeed 3 torque steers like a motherfucker, the Alfa 147 GTA understeered everywhere, but 160hp in my mid-size FWD car? No problem, you really have to get rough with it before it understeers. Even then, the Focus RS has 300hp and works pretty well with FWD, but you need trickery to make it work. Much easier (and more conventionally accepted) to go with RWD once you increase power above a certain amount. Besides, once you've got the power, who doesn't want to do powerslides once in a while? Then it's pretty much a question of do you want understeer or oversteer? Most people who like cars find oversteer to be the most fun, but understeer is arguably safer, since you can pretty much just let off the throttle a bit to get it back in line. Besides, any good FWD car can oversteer quite well, but nearly all cars (both FWD and RWD) are setup to understeer from the factory.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:37
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wolrah posted:Isn't that sort of the point of the ST? Sort of the muscle car logic, the motor from your bigger cars stuck in the small one for fun? The Fusion has more than an extra foot in between the axles and another 600 pounds, it's not exactly a peppy handling machine like the Fiesta. In a way it is the point, But this particular car is more expensive in canada than it is in the UK, including the VAT in the uk price, and adding 500gbp for the 3-door/5-door difference. A $5,300 difference US to canada on a $22,000 car is massive, especially considering the difference US to canada on the fusion is about $800. It puts it into an entirely different price class of cars including the mustang, camaro, and challenger.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:38
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Fucknag posted:There's no real reason for FWD cars to understeer that's inherent to the drivetrain. Define drivetrain. If you are talking about the engine in isolation, no. Gearbox in isolation? Actually, yes that can be the case. Driveshafts and hubs? Again yes can be the case. Differentials? Yes, quite a contributor actually. Location and how it all is bolted together? That's where you have a signifigant problem and why FWD do inherently understeer, let alone the other driveline issues. I'd also add that it's very much the case over many years I've seen the latest great hot hatch described in glowing terms about deletion of understeer and yet the next generation of hottie comes along and the oen it overtook gets lumped as understeering lardass. The Focus ST will also cop that. Hell, the Mazda MZR or whatever the turbo is called was lauded as torquesteer free by most journalists at the time of it's release. That's..... kinda not true, is it? Plus also add that car companies slip prepared specials for journalists that later dont represent production cars. Hell the Focus RS was called nearly understeer free but that aint true as well. That's a hell of a car tho that be true! Dont get me wrong tho, hot hatches and FWD hotties are a hoot and I love thrashing them. But I pretty much look at the glowing praise with wariness and get ready to left foot brake anyway.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:35
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InitialDave posted:What concerns me about modern FWD is whether you can left-foot brake for roundabouts etc - or at least, if it's programmed to cut throttle on brake application, if it's something that can be removed by the service guys. The Focus ST has sport mode, which is most traction control disabled, and full off mode of all traction control, whereby none of the electronic aids will kick in except for the e-diff, which is used mostly during acceleration.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:57
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Of course now I can't ever read "sport mode" in any context without hearing "Sport MODE?!  "
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Jul 4, 2013 13:55
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Cat Terrist posted:Define drivetrain. If you are talking about the engine in isolation, no. Gearbox in isolation? Actually, yes that can be the case. Driveshafts and hubs? Again yes can be the case. Differentials? Yes, quite a contributor actually. Location and how it all is bolted together? That's where you have a signifigant problem and why FWD do inherently understeer, let alone the other driveline issues. Actually, the Focus ST is a great example of how a FWD car can be setup well from the factory. Torque steer? Sure, but the e-diff really minimizes it. Understeer? Sure, but in Sport Mode the computer does a lot of brake assistance automatically to get the car to turn in anyway. Even if the car doesn't turn in the way you want, the ST has highly predictable lift-off oversteer characteristics that can help rotate the nose into the turn. I have not yet auto crossed my ST, but in reading other people's accounts the car is superior in G Stock - apparently there's nothing even close unless an SRT-4, Cobalt SS or a Genesis with a seasoned driver shows up. Quite a few of those people are also saying that Sport Mode on their ST is yielding faster times on courses than keeping TC off entirely. One person even remarked that it was so good and made him so much faster that it felt like cheating. I'm not saying the ST is magic or anything, but I am saying that the car in its stock form is set up extremely well, with fairly neutral and predictable handling characteristics, in spite of the drive train. bobfather fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 14:09
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Torque steer is overrated. If you drive it long enough, you subconsciously steady the wheel to drive straight without noticing that you're doing it.
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Jul 4, 2013 14:32
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There was a new episode tonight, right?
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Jul 7, 2013 21:44
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I'm not sure, I came to watch it on TiVo at 9:20 and the recording was tennis and the iPlayer version wasn't available yet.
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Jul 7, 2013 22:01
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Yes, it was delayed about a quarter-hour due to live tennis coverage. Reasonable episode, interesting that they effectively have the three of them each go off and do their own segment schtick, and it turns out pretty much how you would expect if you were told "Richard is doing this, Jezza is doing this, and James is doing this". The SIARPC is actually AI-able this episode, don't automatically skip it without having a look first. I love me some Dougie Lampkin. Really annoys me, the UK's ability to be massive fans of sports we're really not very good at, and sideline stuff where we're world champions.
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Jul 7, 2013 22:02
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The hammond and may parts were terrible. Hammonds in particular seemed to have been edited by a 3 year old with the crown vic jumping around so much it almost looked like there were 8 of them out there. Clarkson has balls jumping a ferrari in the rain.
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Jul 7, 2013 23:23
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Powershift posted:The hammond and may parts were terrible. Hammonds in particular seemed to have been edited by a 3 year old with the crown vic jumping around so much it almost looked like there were 8 of them out there. Clarkson has balls jumping a ferrari in the rain. Agreed on all counts. May's was watchable but I didn't really get the point. Clarkson's review was stellar I thought. The sounds they captured from the F12 were fantastic. SIARPC was very good as well. Ron Howard seems like a genuinely decent fellow.
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Jul 7, 2013 23:48
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angryhampster posted:Clarkson's review was stellar I thought. The sounds they captured from the F12 were fantastic.
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Jul 7, 2013 23:55
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I'm not as up on my geography of England as I should be, but what part of Hertfordshire was he showing off in the F12 segment? I've been combing over it in Google Earth for twenty minutes now and it all looks like virtually flat farmland. Where were those shots of lonely desolate winding roads through snow-flecked mountains taken?
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Jul 8, 2013 03:41
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Data Graham posted:I'm not as up on my geography of England as I should be, but what part of Hertfordshire was he showing off in the F12 segment? I've been combing over it in Google Earth for twenty minutes now and it all looks like virtually flat farmland. Where were those shots of lonely desolate winding roads through snow-flecked mountains taken? The town he drives through is Pitlochry scotland, so the far far northern part of Hertfordshire, far northern part, like really far. People seem not to have gotten the joke, but there is a big red "Pitlochry" van that drives between the camera and clarkson, and clarkson drives by a whole bunch of signs that say "Pitlochry", to give away the fact that he's not in Hertfordshire. e: Found the road here because i'm REALLY good at google. You can match up that road off to the right with the frame when clarkson says "it's motoring nirvana." http://goo.gl/maps/cYzyr So yeah, far nothern Hertfordshire Powershift fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jul 8, 2013 |
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Jul 8, 2013 04:01
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I had been dying to see the F12 review since last year. Was not disappointed. Jeremy Clarkson as always gave a great review.
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Jul 8, 2013 04:19
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Powershift posted:People seem not to have gotten the joke, but there is a big red "Pitlochry" van that drives between the camera and clarkson, and clarkson drives by a whole bunch of signs that say "Pitlochry", to give away the fact that he's not in Hertfordshire.
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Jul 8, 2013 04:28
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