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Zomodok posted:So it's only delayed by 2-3 months depending on when in January it releases. But it's not releasing properly in January either. It's coming two years after the Kickstarter, assuming the date isn't postponed again. That is the problem. They haven mentioned last year that Kickstarter wouldn't be able to cover it all, so they would have to secure external funding, which supposedly they did? Fast forward and several months later they have an entire Humble Bundle dedicated to bring more money into Broken Age development, then they open a web site to take preorders for the game. And that too was apparently not enough. This reminds of that Amnesia Fortnight thingy. They raised $250k to just gently caress around making some prototypes for some days and, somehow, it turned out that money wasn't enough to cover the expenses for that? What in the bloody hell. How can we trust these people to deliver the goddamn game on April now? What if Steam sales fall below expectations? It's not like those who wanted the game haven't already bought it in one way or another.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:25
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Yeah this doesn't look too good of them, especially when you got guys like inXile who know what they are doing. I preordered the game a month or so back and went for 20 on Massive Chalice so I'm really not annoyed but it is rather discouraging that they're this mismanaged.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 00:25
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Maybe indie game companies need to stop being in San Francisco where everything costs a billion dollars (apparently)
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Jul 3, 2013 00:28
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I haven't been following their development diary - what's been going on to cause the budget issues and delays? I thought an adventure game being made by such an industry veteran as Tim Schafer would have been relatively straightforward to plan out. This was the first game kickstarter I signed up for and wonder about the whole crowdfunding as an alternative to publishers deal, so it's very disappointing to see it crumbling budget-wise like this.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:28
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Saoshyant posted:But it's not releasing properly in January either. It's coming two years after the Kickstarter, assuming the date isn't postponed again. Brutal Legend of PC got them about a million dollars. The Humble Bundle got them a million more. Which brings the game development to 5 million not including the 2PP cut and kickstarter cut. Then you add the Slacker Backer stuff in which adds another 200,000 but the thing throughout the episode and Tim's note is that this isn't a Money Issue anymore. This is a productivity, company issue.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:30
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Trapezium Dave posted:I haven't been following their development diary - what's been going on to cause the budget issues and delays? I thought an adventure game being made by such an industry veteran as Tim Schafer would have been relatively straightforward to plan out. Zomodok posted:Tim always has issues with releasing on time and within budget. It's a well known thing that bogged down Brutal Legend and Psychonauts so this isn't really that surprising. v  vedit; go over to their forums and bitch.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:31
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zenintrude posted:Now we know what it's like to be Tim's publisher! With any complex project it's not possible to really know the costs until you do it unless it's something you've done many times before and can just roll out using existing pipelines. It's why if I'm costing up something which requires product or engineering development time for a bid I stick in as much contingency as I think I can get away with. In terms of videogames this means having tech everyone is familiar with and a good suite of tools. This game had neither and is ludicrously art intensive so I'm not surprised at all about this. Edit: Amnesia fortnight costed ~350k from what they said from memory multiply that out and it comes to ~8MM for a year, which is reasonable for a studio of 60 odd people in San Francisco. Io_ fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 00:32
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I want Tim to make a game with Terry Gilliam. Honestly though -- I don't really give much of a crap about delays. Better to have a better game later than a poor one soon. Yes, I realize this is giving them a free pass to keep making promises, but the making of documentary shows them making steady progress on a game that looks better every time I see it. If this were a new kickstarter today I think I'd still back it for the same amount.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:33
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I'm not really surprised that they're overbudget AGAIN. They're developing a new ambitious engine and a game on top of that and that game is being written by Tim Schaffer. The problem is whether or not they're gonna recoup costs or even make enough to make part 2. $6 Mil to finish the game is insane and with so many preorders (backers, humble bundles, and... well, preorders) I don't think Steam Early Access is gonna help them any. I'm not mad about any of their decisions though. The documentary alone was worth backing it.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:39
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This whole thing seems to have gotten away from Tim and Double Fine. I'm not a designer of any sort but when something like a $2.2 million adventure game ($2.2 million was what they were left with after everything else was subtracted) is looking to take three years to make I start to think something has gone wrong along the way, whether that's poor budgeting, time management, or design skills is not something I can say. At this point I'm not sure if I should be concerned about Double Fine for not being able to make a (as far as I can tell) simple adventure game or be concerned about InXile, Obsidian, and Red Thread to make seemingly more complicated games on similar-ish budgets. Edit: Do not even ask posted:I'm not really surprised that they're overbudget AGAIN. They're developing a new ambitious engine They haven't created a new engine for Broken Age, they're using a licensed one. Kibayasu fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 00:48
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Man, imagine what would've happened if they only raised as much money as they originally asked for. We would've got a Post-It note with "Sorry  " written on it.Estimated date of Post-It release: Summer 2015.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:51
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Kibayasu posted:This whole thing seems to have gotten away from Tim and Double Fine. I'm not a designer of any sort but when something like a $2.2 million adventure game ($2.2 million was what they were left with after everything else was subtracted) is looking to take three years to make I start to think something has gone wrong along the way, whether that's poor budgeting, time management, or design skills is not something I can say. At this point I'm not sure if I should be concerned about Double Fine for not being able to make a (as far as I can tell) simple adventure game or be concerned about InXile, Obsidian, and Red Thread to make seemingly more complicated games on similar-ish budgets.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:53
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midwat posted:Man, imagine what would've happened if they only raised as much money as they originally asked for. We would've got a Post-It note with "Sorry
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Jul 3, 2013 00:53
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Kibayasu posted:This whole thing seems to have gotten away from Tim and Double Fine. I'm not a designer of any sort but when something like a $2.2 million adventure game ($2.2 million was what they were left with after everything else was subtracted) is looking to take three years to make I start to think something has gone wrong along the way, whether that's poor budgeting, time management, or design skills is not something I can say. At this point I'm not sure if I should be concerned about Double Fine for not being able to make a (as far as I can tell) simple adventure game or be concerned about InXile, Obsidian, and Red Thread to make seemingly more complicated games on similar-ish budgets. Where are you getting the three years from because they started March 2012 and are aiming for a June/July 2014 which is just barely over 2 years. With the amount of people working on it (10) it's not that bad (TIME WISE). InXile, Obsidian and all those have more employees (and probably better management)
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Jul 3, 2013 00:54
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Kibayasu posted:They haven't created a new engine for Broken Age, they're using a licensed one. Wait, really? I thought they made something from scratch with the lighting, models, etc. That's really disappointing.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:58
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Do not even ask posted:Wait, really? I thought they made something from scratch with the lighting, models, etc. That's really disappointing. They are using an open source engine called Moai ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai_(game_development_platform) ) I think my biggest issue is that Project Eternity and Wasteland 2 happen to be more complex games and will be releasing before an Adventure Game.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:00
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Saoshyant posted:But it's not releasing properly in January either. It's coming two years after the Kickstarter, assuming the date isn't postponed again. For the Amnesia Fortnight thing, that's something they do on at least a yearly basis whether they directly monetize it or not. The humble bundle attached to it was just a way for them to make some extra money on something they were going to do anyways. It wasn't really a failed business venture when looked at in that light. Taking some time off to "just gently caress around making some prototypes" is something several companies do like Valve and it's usually cited as very important for the general level of creativity in your studio.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:00
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Zomodok posted:Where are you getting the three years from because they started March 2012 and are aiming for a June/July 2014 which is just barely over 2 years. With the amount of people working on it (10) it's not that bad (TIME WISE). InXile, Obsidian and all those have more employees (and probably better management) From Tim saying in the Kickstarter update that the detailed schedule they created for all game assets they had planned, before cuts, the first half would only be finished in July 2014. The second half would be more like July 2015. I realize the same update says they have made the cuts already. It just seems Tim may have top-loaded this game from the start without enough of an eye to the future.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:01
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Do not even ask posted:Wait, really? I thought they made something from scratch with the lighting, models, etc. That's really disappointing. They started with Moai as the base then wrote a buttload of custom tools and extra functionality for it. Io_ fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 01:03
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Double Fine really is the most beloved hated company. Or the most hated beloved company? I can't really tell to be honest.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:25
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"The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time."
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Jul 3, 2013 01:30
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I'm not upset about this, sure they might have been overly ambitious and tried to do too much, but Double Fine has a proven track record, and I'm confident that they will be able to deliver Broken Age. I want to play the game they want to make, not the one they had to make as a compromise. Its Tim Schafer, not some unknown developer. There might be a little bit of a delay, but I am ultimately getting a much better product because of it. Granted, I can understand why other people who don't have as much faith in Double Fine as me might be upset. Its totally legitimate, I just can't give a drat. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 01:38
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People have the right to be upset but what is it going to do? The money has already been paid out, and it's been paid out for a year plus. So there is no way that you can get that money back. DF isn't asking for additional money from backers. It's just a "UGGGHG COME ON TIM" situation. Though from the stuff they showed off in the new episode, it looks real good.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:42
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Blodskur posted:I think I speak for everyone else here: we were expecting the game fully complete by I dunno, end of Summer? As a Valve fan, I still don't see where all the disappointment is coming from. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, I've gotten my money's worth with the in-depth documentary series about an overweight man slimming up. Releasing the first half in January and the second half a few month later is reasonable and the way to go if it gets us a ton of content.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:55
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I don't really care if it comes out late - I've got plenty of things to fill my time and the better a game it is (and bigger frankly - size does matter a bit) the happier I am. As a flagship for viable crowdsourced funding it sort of bums me out - I just can't imagine how an adventure game can cost that much. People can and do make good ones for $20,000 or as hobby projects - the main things that make them work are just the quality of the script which, even for a great writer like Tim, shouldn't stretch to the millions. I really like Doublefine and actually the various videos and things for both their projects are really good value for the not very high pledges I've made. I've relaly enjoyed having them on in the background and things - even stuff like Brad Muir playing X-com or whatever. But having said that their management seems terrible. It will look even worse if the various million dollar kickstarters that came after them manage to come and not suck - although maybe that's just an impossibility for these studios.
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Jul 3, 2013 01:56
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Kennel posted:"The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time." Is this just a dumb statement or is he referring to having to go back and ensure everything runs the way it should and removing bugs?
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Jul 3, 2013 02:02
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pentyne posted:Is this just a dumb statement or is he referring to having to go back and ensure everything runs the way it should and removing bugs?
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Jul 3, 2013 02:08
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I really don't see where most of the complaining comes from. It seems like a reasonable strategy to get the game they want out instead of having to compromise. Seems like a win-win to me. I've heard a few people say this move is "scummy" and I just don't see it. What about this is anything less than above board and in the best interest of the project and the backers?
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Jul 3, 2013 02:12
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choobs posted:I really don't see where most of the complaining comes from. It seems like a reasonable strategy to get the game they want out instead of having to compromise. Seems like a win-win to me. Most accusations of scumminess that I've seen are to do with pitching a second kickstarter for a game with a third of the budget and seemingly greater scope when they knew they were finding it impossible to produce an adventure game for three times the price.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:14
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Maybe it's worth it to save your outrage until the game either falls through or is released as some short, unfinished state although from people's demands here I guess they'd prefer an unfinished game under budget and on time.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:17
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Wildstrike posted:Most accusations of scumminess that I've seen are to do with pitching a second kickstarter for a game with a third of the budget and seemingly greater scope when they knew they were finding it impossible to produce an adventure game for three times the price. To be fair Massive Chalice is using an engine the group used for Iron Brigade and it seems that it's not really going to be a "story" game. Which will cut down on the writing and the like. I'm really only expecting a fantasy Iron Brigade style game inspired by XCom/Fire Emblem
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Jul 3, 2013 02:23
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Zomodok posted:To be fair Massive Chalice is using an engine the group used for Iron Brigade and it seems that it's not really going to be a "story" game. Which will cut down on the writing and the like. I'm really only expecting a fantasy Iron Brigade style game inspired by XCom/Fire Emblem Also a different team, possibly more competent!
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Jul 3, 2013 02:25
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Al! posted:Maybe it's worth it to save your outrage until the game either falls through or is released as some short, unfinished state although from people's demands here I guess they'd prefer an unfinished game under budget and on time. Which happened in the form of Brutal Legend, and everyone hated that too, so.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:30
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Zomodok posted:To be fair Massive Chalice is using an engine the group used for Iron Brigade and it seems that it's not really going to be a "story" game. Which will cut down on the writing and the like. I'm really only expecting a fantasy Iron Brigade style game inspired by XCom/Fire Emblem Yes, that's true. I'm definitely not outraged at all. Like I said I've had more than the value of what I paid just from the videos connected to the Doublefine kickstarters. I'm also nowhere near knowledgeable enough to know how much more or less achievable Massive Chalice is for the budget. I'm more befuddled at what costing for a video game must look like - I would have thought that writing was one of the least expensive parts even if you paid someone at a professional screenwriter level salary, and that writing is the lynchpin element to a good adventure game trumping all else.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:31
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Pirate Jet posted:Which happened in the form of Brutal Legend, and everyone hated that too, so. I liked Brutal Legend a lot but it was obviously butchered because their publisher freaked out when it was turning out to take longer and be more expensive than anticipated. Good thing Double Fine's fans are more reasonable.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:35
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Al! posted:I liked Brutal Legend a lot but it was obviously butchered because their publisher freaked out when it was turning out to take longer and be more expensive than anticipated. Good thing Double Fine's fans are more reasonable. Poor old Double Fine is just trying to make a great game, then the mean old publishers decide they have a deadline and a budget.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:36
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I hope Broken Age has another delay and Massive Chalice comes out first so Brad Muir can eat Tim Schafer's heart and gain his
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Jul 3, 2013 02:40
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Poor old Double Fine is just trying to make a great game, then the mean old publishers decide they have a deadline and a budget. I always knew that Kickstarter was going to make goons sympathize with the likes of Activision sooner or later. I just figured that Obsidian was going to be the ones to do it.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:40
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Al! posted:I liked Brutal Legend a lot but it was obviously butchered because their publisher freaked out when it was turning out to take longer and be more expensive than anticipated. Good thing Double Fine's fans are more reasonable. I think it's less that the fans are reasonable and more to do with the fact that DoubleFine is pretty much toxic in the eyes of publishers because of this same nonsense. This isn't the first time it's happened but it is the first time they're doing it with their customers money rather than a publishers.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:41
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Al! posted:I always knew that Kickstarter was going to make goons sympathize with the likes of Activision sooner or later. I just figured that Obsidian was going to be the ones to do it. Thinking the publishers are always in the wrong is childish thinking. I'm sure there has been plenty of screwing both ways.
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Jul 3, 2013 02:46
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