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Also demanding that the party never once stop or do anything that's in any way tangentially unrelated to the main plot leads to corridor city FFXIII. Even Super Linear FFX had some sideplots.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:00
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In fact, FFX is technically all about doing subplots.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:02
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:What the gently caress? This never happened. A random guy standing outside offers to fix the buggy, Bugenhagen decides to entertain the party with his planetarium while you wait, then has something to show Red XIII. Bugenhagen takes you aside and goes "you realize your car won't get fixed until this Red XIII thing is resolved, right?" Dr Pepper posted:Also demanding that the party never once stop or do anything that's in any way tangentially unrelated to the main plot leads to corridor city FFXIII. It wouldn't be as much of an issue if the main plot wasn't an overblown chase scene for half the game. Because of the wider scope of its main plot, FFVI had room to fit stuff like the Opera House sequence in the game in ways that had at least SOME relation to the main narrative. If 7 hadn't completely dropped the "Shinra is going to kill the whole planet" angle from Junon to Cloud leaving the group then maybe they would have had room for some additional stuff, but as it stands a bunch of the game feels janky and kills the plot's momentum.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:05
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I really dig to structure of the world in 7. The plot demands only that you keep moving forward, chasing Sephiroth, which is mirrored by the obvious landmarks and whatnot. It also helps that you get to go pretty much everywhere at least once before you get the airship, so navigating and exploring little nooks and crannies you couldn't reach before is a lot more satisfying. Playing 8 now, the opposite is true; having spent the first 15 or so hours inside disparate towns/buildings (while being ferried to them in cutscenes) means that once you get the (SLOWEST) airship, the world is just a big mess and I don't know where anything is and it takes too long to get everywhere and why do I even care anyway this game is really stupid. I don't like VIII very much, but I just started the third disc. Hopefully I don't have too much left and I have no intention of doing any side quests, which will hopefully speed things along.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:10
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I don't really get the complaint. You're chasing Sephiroth, but along the way you have to deal with other problems that pop up. It's not exactly an uncommon plot element.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:11
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Cosmo Canyon sidetrip lead directly to you finding out some pretty critical stuff about the plot with regards to Lifestream and such? That's pretty narratively intertwined.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:12
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ImpAtom posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Cosmo Canyon sidetrip lead directly to you finding out some pretty critical stuff about the plot with regards to Lifestream and such? That's pretty narratively intertwined. Yeah. Pretty much the only non-essential village is the one where Yuffie is from. Everything else gets visited along the main plot and has something to reveal to the player and characters.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:14
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Great Lakes Log posted:I don't like VIII very much, but I just started the third disc. Hopefully I don't have too much left and I have no intention of doing any side quests, which will hopefully speed things along. If you think FF8's bad now you're in for a real treat 
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Jul 4, 2013 00:18
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Great Lakes Log posted:I really dig to structure of the world in 7. The plot demands only that you keep moving forward, chasing Sephiroth, which is mirrored by the obvious landmarks and whatnot. It also helps that you get to go pretty much everywhere at least once before you get the airship, so navigating and exploring little nooks and crannies you couldn't reach before is a lot more satisfying. Playing 8 now, the opposite is true; having spent the first 15 or so hours inside disparate towns/buildings (while being ferried to them in cutscenes) means that once you get the (SLOWEST) airship, the world is just a big mess and I don't know where anything is and it takes too long to get everywhere and why do I even care anyway this game is really stupid. VIII only gets worse from there. Disc 4 might as well be the game berating you for playing that long.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:18
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Great Lakes Log posted:Yeah. Pretty much the only non-essential village is the one where Yuffie is from. Everything else gets visited along the main plot and has something to reveal to the player and characters. Both non-essential and completely optional, then! When I first played the game I thought there was a lull up until Nibelheim, but I really enjoy Costa Del Sol and Cosmo Canyon now. Junon had enough minigames to be tolerable, but Corel and its lovely desert prison can gently caress right off. EDIT: Disc 4 was just the castle, right? Screw you guys, I loved that dungeon. Inspired my favorite event in FFXI too.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:20
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There were two cool scenes. First was when the three character who you didn't choose to be in the group with Squall died, which was a weird, cool moment where you think "well I haven't been playing with them anyway and now they're dead. Huh." And then they inexplicably come back to life a few hours later and say "there's no time to explain!!! Lets go!". Ruined the only cool bit. The only other interesting part was wrestling the jetpack guy as you tumble out of the escape hatch and there are suddenly hundreds of people sword fighting in the background. Fun but not near enough to make up for stupid and/or boring the rest of the game has been.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:23
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Great Lakes Log posted:Yeah. Pretty much the only non-essential village is the one where Yuffie is from. Everything else gets visited along the main plot and has something to reveal to the player and characters. I think Zack's home town might be optional, too, at least on the first disc. First time through the game, I completely passed it by without noticing it at all on my way to Cosmo Canyon; after I finished up there and got the car repaired, I was headed back towards the Golden Saucer when I saw the destroyed reactor and realized "oh, hey, there's a thing over here I can probably explore."
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Jul 4, 2013 00:28
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W.T. Fits posted:I think Zack's home town might be optional, too, at least on the first disc. First time through the game, I completely passed it by without noticing it at all on my way to Cosmo Canyon; after I finished up there and got the car repaired, I was headed back towards the Golden Saucer when I saw the destroyed reactor and realized "oh, hey, there's a thing over here I can probably explore." You're right. If you go there, there's a scene with the Turks, and Scarlet and Heidegger check out the destroyed reactor for huge Materia. Not sure why that town was optional, to be honest.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:30
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Great Lakes Log posted:There were two cool scenes. First was when the three character who you didn't choose to be in the group with Squall died, which was a weird, cool moment where you think "well I haven't been playing with them anyway and now they're dead. Huh." And then they inexplicably come back to life a few hours later and say "there's no time to explain!!! Lets go!". Ruined the only cool bit. "There's no time to explain!" is the foundation of FFVIII's plot. Sometimes it's disguised as "no point thinking about it!" or "the why's, how's, and what's aren't important right now."
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Jul 4, 2013 00:31
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And then you get disc 3: stupid in its purest, most concentrated form.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:32
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Great Lakes Log posted:The only other interesting part was wrestling the jetpack guy as you tumble out of the escape hatch and there are suddenly hundreds of people sword fighting in the background. Fun but not near enough to make up for stupid and/or boring the rest of the game has been. The Garden VS Garden fight was the best, really you should pretend that the end of disc 2 is where Final Fantasy 8 really ends. If you look hard enough, for some reason there are two SeeDs who each "kill" a galbadian soldier but for whatever reason their swords are missing  EDIT: Since I got nothing better to do  To the left and above the guy that is on his hands and knees, the one standing over the galbadian. He is currently in the motion where he'll swing his sword arm sans sword behind and above him and stab down into the galbadian. It amuses me everytime I see it. I can't get a picture of the SeeD stuffing his arm into the galbadian's gut cause the youtube video doesn't linger around that scene. Or maybe its just showing that Zell isn't the only person in Balamb that uses his fist
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Jul 4, 2013 00:33
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Schwartzcough posted:"There's no time to explain!" is the foundation of FFVIII's plot. Sometimes it's disguised as "no point thinking about it!" or "the why's, how's, and what's aren't important right now." Generally true, but in that specific case it's completely obvious what happened. Edit: Great Lakes Log posted:I don't like VIII very much, but I just started the third disc. Hopefully I don't have too much left and I have no intention of doing any side quests, which will hopefully speed things along. You should make an exception to go get Odin before the end of disc 3. He's in the pointy building in Centra (the shrimp continent in the middle). Tempo 119 fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 00:34
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Im playing through this game again and some of the criticism doesn't hold water in my opinion Final fantasy 8 has a ton of plot holes, but I really don't think everyone being from the same orphanage is one of them, or even NORG. Think of it from Cids perspective. His wife had to have known she had the potential to become a Sorceress. He even mentions she joked about his SeeDs having to fight her someday. Cid kept the kids as close as he could once Garden was running and probably gave them a bit of special treatment when it came to training or assignments, as far as he could while still letting some be adopted. Irvine is easily explained by Cid being the one to orchestrate the assassination mission, he probably requested Irvine from Galbadia. Selphies transfer is a bit more of a coincidence though. You could see there being a second power in the Garden from the start of the game. The Garden staff were always creepy as hell, interrupting and pushing Cid around. NORG is mentioned on your console in the classroom if you look up garden info. Why does it matter that he's alien in appearance? His fushururu crap isn't him speaking either, it's supposed to be a text cue for his growling. Watch the scene where he shows up and you can hear it in the audio Seipher dreaming about being the sorceress' knight during the SeeD mission can be hand waved away by Time Kompression. It's bad writing but weird poo poo happens when you gently caress with time itself. I don't think the game is supposed to be looked at from a linear perspective, the writers or translation were just bad enough that their ideas don't come through.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:55
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It's not so much that the orphanage thing is a plot hole, it's just really silly and soap opera-y. I didn't know anyone had a problem with Norg, seems like a pretty straightforward subplot.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:10
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Everything involving the NORG rebellion was incredibly stupid and nonsensical, but his existence isn't a plot hole or anything.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:16
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I don't care what anyone says, I liked NORG and I don't get why anyone complains about him "coming out of nowhere." NORG is the best straight up villain in the game. (Seifer is kinda weird. I dunno if he's an antagonist or a villain) He also has a more ominous theme than the main villain. Vadun posted:Seipher dreaming about being the sorceress' knight during the SeeD mission can be hand waved away by Time Kompression. Do you mean Seifer? That's not even vaguely a plothole - he ha wanted to be the Sorceress' Knight since childhood. The Sorceress and her Knight is a recurring theme in FFVIII. Seifer was quite plainly trying to emulate Laguna from the movie he was in as they both use the same type of gunblade, wield it in the same fashion, and even use the same "slash, slash, bring blade slowly down vertically in front of his face" taunt.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:16
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Someone was asking about Hope in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. Here he is:  More pictures here: http://www.the-magicbox.com/1307/game130702a.shtml
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Jul 4, 2013 01:22
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NikkolasKing posted:Seifer was quite plainly trying to emulate Laguna from the movie he was in as they both use the same type of gunblade, wield it in the same fashion, and even use the same "slash, slash, bring blade slowly down vertically in front of his face" taunt. Where does his show up? Is it part of the timber maniacs magazines? I don't recall ever seeing that before for some reason Grabbing Odin without Diablos and no-encounters made the ruins a bit more fun. Ended up using meltdown and Mad Rush to give everyone haste and berserk. I've never really bothered with the GF abilities before
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Jul 4, 2013 01:24
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theonlypie314SA posted:Someone was asking about Hope in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. Here he is: He looks like he's a teenager wearing the exact same clothes so they're too small. Weird.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:26
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Vadun posted:Where does his show up? Is it part of the timber maniacs magazines? I don't recall ever seeing that before for some reason On disc 3, near the start there's a bit where one of the Laguna sequences is him filming a movie with a gunblade. His stance there is identical to Seifer's. It's not really much of a stretch to presume that Seifer's modelling himself after Laguna in that movie, especially since it's even called The Sorceress' Knight.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:28
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theonlypie314SA posted:Someone was asking about Hope in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. Here he is: The pose in that first picture looked a little weird to me before I realized he was sitting on an invisible ledge.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:34
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Both non-essential and completely optional, then! Ultimecia's Castle makes no actual sense in the story, is cobbled together from poo poo that has no ties to the actual game, and the ending is loving terrible.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:39
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Level Slide posted:The pose in that first picture looked a little weird to me before I realized he was sitting on an invisible ledge. Mime outfit confirmed.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:49
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Azure_Horizon posted:Ultimecia's Castle makes no actual sense in the story, is cobbled together from poo poo that has no ties to the actual game, and the ending is loving terrible. Trippy final dungeons seems to be almost as popular in JRPGs as the final boss taking on some angelic form. Memoria didn't make much sense either. Oh sure, it was "explained" but why the gently caress was it there in the first place? Did Kuja somehow create it to get to the crystal? Ultimecia is getting ready to absorb the universe. Having a castle that makes no sense seems within the confines of her power.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:58
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NikkolasKing posted:Trippy final dungeons seems to be almost as popular in JRPGs as the final boss taking on some angelic form. Memoria didn't make much sense either. Oh sure, it was "explained" but why the gently caress was it there in the first place? Did Kuja somehow create it to get to the crystal? It's never directly explained, but it can be inferred that due to its connection to the Iifa Tree (which has a deep connection with the planet, and the soul transfer) that it is a collection of the planet's memories, through the souls that the Iifa Tree has absorbed and encountered. Ultimecia's Castle is just stupid and is never explained at all.
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Jul 4, 2013 02:48
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Azure_Horizon posted:It's never directly explained, but it can be inferred that due to its connection to the Iifa Tree (which has a deep connection with the planet, and the soul transfer) that it is a collection of the planet's memories, through the souls that the Iifa Tree has absorbed and encountered. It's a flying castle that's found near where SeeD was founded. It's literally called Ultimecia's Castle. It's not that hard to grasp, sometimes a cigar is a cigar. Sin makes less sense as a final dungeon.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:03
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Winks posted:Oh my gosh it does. The two screen shots show her with blonde hair, but the model shows her with normal hair color. I won't be surprised if this gives her his hair color as well but drat, this is very much a "come preorder this you FF7 fanboys" taunt. On the bright side it also means she'll have at least one outfit that doesn't look completely retarded. Zombies' Downfall posted:I didn't actually play them (I have an unopened copy of one in fact), but I heard that the Valkyrie Profile sequels already did a number on that game's legacy. And knowing that two of the last things Tri-Ace worked on were Star Ocean 4 and XIII-2 doesn't exactly make the prospect of a new game from those guys exciting. After what happened with SO3 I was really hoping SO4 was just going to be a complete reboot of the series. Now I'm kind of hoping it was the swan song. That game was more painful than Suikoden 4 or Dragon Quarter and I can't imagine what kind of thing we'd get in SO5.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:09
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Schwartzcough posted:Everything involving the NORG rebellion was incredibly stupid and nonsensical, but his existence isn't a plot hole or anything. People have a tendency to call something a plot hole because it isn't as incendiary as calling it stupid nonsense, but it's a little weird because the latter is way more subjective and harder to critique. It's okay, everyone! You can call Final Fantasy 8's story stupid nonsense!
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Jul 4, 2013 03:14
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Evil Fluffy posted:The two screen shots show her with blonde hair, but the model shows her with normal hair color. I won't be surprised if this gives her his hair color as well but drat, this is very much a "come preorder this you FF7 fanboys" taunt. e: 
Winks fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 03:19
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I always felt like Lightning's hair can't decide how pink/blonde it is in the first place; I've definitely seen art and stuff where it's like bubblegum color and then other pictures (and maybe just scenes due to lighting) like that one where it looks completely blonde.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:24
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Her hair is just weird. They wanted to make it pink but not like Anime Pink and so it ends up looking weird in various lightning conditions.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:26
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Zombies' Downfall posted:People have a tendency to call something a plot hole because it isn't as incendiary as calling it stupid nonsense, but it's a little weird because the latter is way more subjective and harder to critique. It's okay, everyone! You can call Final Fantasy 8's story stupid nonsense! Thank God we can, because that's precisely what it is.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:31
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Evil Fluffy posted:After what happened with SO3 I was really hoping SO4 was just going to be a complete reboot of the series. Now I'm kind of hoping it was the swan song. That game was more painful than Suikoden 4 or Dragon Quarter and I can't imagine what kind of thing we'd get in SO5. That the BoF series ended because the team of Dragon Quarter tried something new and it angered the fanboys is sad. That Star Ocean should end after 4 is justice.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:46
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Azure_Horizon posted:Ultimecia's Castle makes no actual sense in the story, is cobbled together from poo poo that has no ties to the actual game, and the ending is loving terrible. See, I thought it was one of the best endings in the series. Wrapped everything up nicely.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:48
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The problem wasn't that Dragon Quarter tried something new, it's that it tried something new that was loving terrible for players to deal with. Like, I get what they were going for, and the mechanic works... when you know what to do with it. The problem is 'what to do with it' isn't explained nearly as neatly as it should be. People getting frustrated and turned off by the game is completely understandable, especially those were were long time fans of the series. EDIT: Also the best ending in the FF series is FF9.
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