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Cream_Filling posted:I thought that they were based on the supposition, based on some statistics I'm sure, that people very commonly get hit in the ankles and fall on top of the hood. So then they mandated a minimum distance between the top of the engine and the top of the hood, so when people get knocked onto the hood they dont hit the valve covers or whatever with their heads and break them (the heads). But then that makes the front end so tall that you're going to either fling them into something else or else run them over instead of the thing you've designed around, which is people falling on top of the hood. I read "fling them into something" and was reminded of that old video with the train 
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Jul 3, 2013 20:48
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It's just the Euro NCAP pedestrian test. http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Page/ed4ad09d-1d63-4b20-a2e3-39192518cf50/pedestrian-protection.aspx They designed the test, carmakers have to meet it. The general idea is hit low, spread out over a large area, and make sure the head deflects off the hood rather than hit something hard. So, the end result is a larger overhang so it can crush, monolithic grills so that the impact is spread out over the whole leg, and high hoodlines so that you don't smack the engine with your head.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:08
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InitialDave posted:Don't they have an issue with the turbos? Or am I thinking of the 335D? I think some have wastegate issues, but every one I've heard of locally has been covered by BMW, even with extensive mods.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:28
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Some good stuff in here: http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-plans-to-take-over-the-world-by-being-clever-646936695 But "Volkswagen also offers a lifetime timing belt with the newest engines made out of a material they wouldn't disclose to us." 
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Jul 3, 2013 22:07
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kimbo305 posted:Some good stuff in here: That material is kevlar, the fiat/chrysler multi-air engines use the same. I still wouldn't want a timing belt on an interference engine and sure as gently caress wouldn't run it unti the "152k mile fit, or lifetime volkswagen", regardless of what the chaps in marketing drew up. Powershift fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 22:21
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If that material isn't a chain, then they must be shortening the 'lifetime' of their products. Why timing chains aren't more common is beyond me, especially on interference engines. Engines with timing chains are probably more expensive to produce, but they're just shifting the costs to maintenance/repairs. Timing belt jobs ain't cheap, and it especially ain't cheap when your valves meet your pistons.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:23
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bull3964 posted:It's just the Euro NCAP pedestrian test. Don't forget lovely lines of sight, increasing the chance of smacking into, say, a pedestrian
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Jul 3, 2013 22:25
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Guinness posted:If that material isn't a chain, then they must be shortening the 'lifetime' of their products. Why timing chains aren't more common is beyond me (yes I know they're more expensive). gently caress chains, too. Everything needs gears. 
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Jul 3, 2013 22:25
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Powershift posted:gently caress chains, too. But wouldn't that be loud as hell? Also, what is that from?
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Jul 3, 2013 22:30
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Cream_Filling posted:But wouldn't that be loud as hell? It's out of an Enzo.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:32
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Guinness posted:If that material isn't a chain, then they must be shortening the 'lifetime' of their products. Why timing chains aren't more common is beyond me, especially on interference engines. Engines with timing chains are probably more expensive to produce, but they're just shifting the costs to maintenance/repairs. Timing belt jobs ain't cheap, and it especially ain't cheap when your valves meet your pistons. Chains aren't entirely maintenance free, the tensioners need service eventually. Belts also have lower parasitic losses as I understand it, and manufacturers are looking for efficiency wherever they can get it. I understand the aversion to belts on intereference engines. On a Miata if the belt breaks you're just waiting for a tow.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:33
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Sinestro posted:It's out of an Enzo. Technically it's out of a Maserati MC12. Either way that assembly is inches away from the drivers ear.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:37
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Weinertron posted:Chains aren't entirely maintenance free, the tensioners need service eventually. Belts also have lower parasitic losses as I understand it, and manufacturers are looking for efficiency wherever they can get it. I understand the aversion to belts on intereference engines. On a Miata if the belt breaks you're just waiting for a tow. Very true, but most chains & tensioners will last to 200k+ miles (or more) without any real issues. Obviously chains can catastrophically fail as well, but it's really rare. Usually it'll become a noisy mess long before it lets go, unlike a timing belt. My NA Miata was the only car I've owned with a timing belt, and knowing that it was non-interference offered a lot of peace of mind. It also helped knowing that a timing belt on a BP isn't a horrendous job (compared to, say, an S4).
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Jul 3, 2013 22:40
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Guinness posted:Very true, but most chains & tensioners will last to 200k+ miles (or more) without any real issues. Obviously chains can catastrophically fail as well, but it's really rare. Usually it'll become a noisy mess long before it lets go, unlike a timing belt. Yeah a timing chain on the verge of failing has a very distinct "marbles in a can" sound that's extremely obvious to anyone within 20ft. This could last for thousands of miles.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:09
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The interval on the belt on my V50 is 150k miles. When intervals are that far apart, the cost of replacement is a really small amount of the total cost of maintenance.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:18
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Sinestro posted:It's out of an Enzo. The Enzo actually uses a chain.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:29
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Timing belts are cheaper, lighter, quieter and have less parasitic drag. Timing belts for all, just engineer the car so that the t-belt can be changed in a reasonable amount of time.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:34
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In theory timing chains are great but it seems impossible for a lot of automakers to make a decent chain tensioner ever.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:35
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Powershift posted:Technically it's out of a Maserati MC12. Either way that assembly is inches away from the drivers ear. Didn't that old GM 4 cylinder they put in the Cavalier/S-10 have timing gears? There must still be thousands of those that are still not in the junkyard.
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Jul 4, 2013 01:38
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Timing belts scare me - they're like a ticking time bomb in nearly every engine that has one. Little wonder that now we know how to make quiet(er) chains and tensioners that it seems like everyone is going back to chain-based timing.
MrChips fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 01:48
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Throatwarbler posted:Didn't that old GM 4 cylinder they put in the Cavalier/S-10 have timing gears? There must still be thousands of those that are still not in the junkyard. The pushrod 2200 was timing chain.
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Jul 4, 2013 02:27
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MINI's official statement about the photos from the previous page:MINI posted:Aggressive and relentless papping is something British celebrities have had to learn to live with. Members of the Royal Family, as well as actors, footballers and top models are all familiar with the sensation of being caught in uncompromising situations, and now MINI is the latest victim. Absolutely unaware and without make-up, the youngest member of our family was caught by sensationalist photographers in a highly private moment. The young one was yellow and completely defenceless. We understand the worldwide interest in our family but it is not the British way to send such unfavourable pictures around the globe. http://www.motoringfile.com/2013/07/03/mini-uk-responds-to-f56-spy-photos/
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Jul 4, 2013 02:34
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Seat Safety Switch posted:The pushrod 2200 was timing chain. I was thinking of the Iron Duke. quote:Over the years, the Tech IV engine has proved to be a reliable, if noisy, workhorse for owners when not pushed to its limits. All 1978-1990 Iron Duke L-4's are outfitted with a micarta camshaft gear that meshes directly with a steel gear on the crankshaft (no timing chain). 1991-92 VIN R and U engines received a timing chain. The timing gear has a tendency to crumble a tooth anytime after 80,000 miles. The cam gear simply shears a tooth at startup and the engine won't start; because of the non-interference design of the engine, no further damage occurs. When the cam gear loses a tooth, the camshaft AND distributor stop rotating during engine cranking. Replacing the gear requires heating the new gear in hot oil and quickly installing it for a press fit on the cam stub. It was unfair Japanese trade policy, CAFE regulations, and relentlessly biased liberal media coverage that eventually did GM in. 
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Jul 4, 2013 02:35
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This sure slipped under my radar. The "GT" trim of the new Mazda6 gains additional fuel economy over the already good base model with mother loving capacitors.  http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1085353_2014-mazda6-tech-package-earns-40-mpg-highway 
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Jul 4, 2013 02:45
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Maybe it's just because of my previous choice of vehicles, but I actually like a reasonably high hood so that I can actually see where the fucker ends. Give me a Wranger/muscle-car style hood any day over poo poo you can't see any part of through the windshield. If that's good for pedestrians as well, bonus!
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Jul 4, 2013 03:35
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That depends on a lot of different design aspects. My Toyota Space Van was trivial to park, I knew exactly where the front bumper stopped because it was 6 inches past my toes. But that car's low wedge shape was apparently designed to go through pedestrians like a combine through a corn field, at least if the corn stalks insisted in strolling into traffic since going to the corner would overburden their corny urbanite lifestyle. My dove-bar Camry, even more so, despite outstanding sight lines. But something like an older Eclipse have a perfect pedestrian-deflecting shape despite a windshield approximately 4 inches tall and a turbo hump completely obscuring view to one corner.
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Jul 4, 2013 04:26
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TheGoatTrick posted:MINI's official statement about the photos from the previous page: More like "We know it looks bad; but please, wait until we can get our professional photography team to take amazing super high resolution photographs of such inane and trivial things as the pile count of the carpet or the detail of the bulb used in the right rear brake-light. Thanks again, and please buy our new car."
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Jul 4, 2013 04:34
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Mazda 3 Sedan http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/03/mazda3-sedan-revealed-by-top-gear-russia/
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Jul 4, 2013 05:20
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Devyl posted:More like "We know it looks bad; but please, wait until we can get our professional photography team to take amazing super high resolution photographs of such inane and trivial things as the pile count of the carpet or the detail of the bulb used in the right rear brake-light. Thanks again, and please buy our new car."  Compare that to the recent pictures from gmotors. The front isn't as flat from side to side and the top and bottom elements line up better. 
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Jul 4, 2013 05:37
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Hog Obituary posted:Mazda 3 Sedan drat that looks good.
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Jul 4, 2013 05:39
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TheGoatTrick posted:MINI's official statement about the photos from the previous page: Apparently nobody in marketing has any idea how lenses work. Telephoto lenses are typically much more flattering. Wide angles are what distorts perspective.
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Jul 4, 2013 06:30
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Hog Obituary posted:Mazda 3 Sedan The back end doesn't look like crap this time. Nice work Mazda!
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Jul 4, 2013 07:01
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Tacier posted:The back end doesn't look like crap this time. Nice work Mazda! BeastOfExmoor posted:Apparently nobody in marketing has any idea how lenses work. Telephoto lenses are typically much more flattering. Wide angles are what distorts perspective. It looks like they tried to apply some correction too. The front fender trim is one piece but it doesn't line up right. 
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Jul 4, 2013 07:26
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TheGoatTrick posted:They have a point, though. Look at the picture from the previous page. The car looks like it has a serious underbite and the front looks crooked, like the passenger side is longer. Oh please don't look like crap.  I love my little MINI and quite possibly want another when the british finally over takes the german and causes some horrible problems.
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Jul 4, 2013 09:54
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Hog Obituary posted:Mazda 3 Sedan Looks alright, but hate the kick on the waistline on the back door. Going to be a dark place in that back seat. Hate to be checking over my shoulder for blind spots in that car.
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Jul 4, 2013 12:49
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Snowdens Secret posted:That depends on a lot of different design aspects. My Toyota Space Van was trivial to park, I knew exactly where the front bumper stopped because it was 6 inches past my toes. But that car's low wedge shape was apparently designed to go through pedestrians like a combine through a corn field, at least if the corn stalks insisted in strolling into traffic since going to the corner would overburden their corny urbanite lifestyle. My dove-bar Camry, even more so, despite outstanding sight lines. But something like an older Eclipse have a perfect pedestrian-deflecting shape despite a windshield approximately 4 inches tall and a turbo hump completely obscuring view to one corner. I'd think that your toyota would have a decent chance of more or less meeting euro pedestrian standards because the whole hood is just sheet metal and the engine is further back inside the car (assuming it's mid-engine).
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Jul 4, 2013 13:48
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You Am I posted:Looks alright, but hate the kick on the waistline on the back door. Going to be a dark place in that back seat. Hate to be checking over my shoulder for blind spots in that car. Adjust your mirrors right and you don't need to look over your shoulder.
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Jul 4, 2013 16:01
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kimbo305 posted:Some good stuff in here: This is right up there with the sealed unit "service free" "lifetime oil" transmissions that love to grenade at about 80k miles.
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Jul 4, 2013 18:50
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I like how everyone is banging on timing belts touting "lifetime" service options when the EXACT reason why a ton of manufacturers moved to timing chains was so that they could delete that service item from the list and have an extra marketing point. The fact of the matter is, if you have a high mileage interference engine, you should have the timing system serviced regardless of belt or chain. If you don't, you're gambling. It's 2013 people. Metal isn't the be all end all material in strength anymore. I have no trouble believing that a belt could be designed as durable as a chain at this point. When I tore apart my 2002 WRX at 115k miles to replace the timing belt, the belt was the best thing that came out of the car. It looked pristine. What needed replacing were the pulleys that sounded like roller skate wheels and the tensioner that started leaking oil. If one of those seizes, it's not going to matter whether or not you have a chain or belt driving it, your engine is going boom regardless. Until we move to electronically actuated valves, the timing system on a car is never going to be truly maintenance free if you keep a car much beyond 10 years.
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Jul 4, 2013 19:09
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Half the chain-driven engines out there seem to have eventual issues with tensioners or guides anyways.
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Jul 4, 2013 20:17
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