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@Good_Haro: That actually sounds really interesting, and I was wondering if there were any good BL games that didn't follow the creepy "uke/seme" casual rape bullshit that seems to be nigh-ubiquitous from what little I've seen. Too bad I don't know Japanese!Nephilm posted:Obviously Kazumi was brought in from the bunny universe by the Alt Yuuko, just like the Extra Yuuko accidentally brought Tsukiji from the cat universe.  I was wondering, does MLA have multiple routes? Like, one for each heroine? Takeru keeps talking about how in love he is with Sumika and people keep implying Kasumi and him are involved and I'm worried it's leading up to him having inappropriate relations with Kasumi and she looks like she's twelve and I just nope no no no no I don't care if Oba-chan says they're around the same age nOPE  Did I get on the wrong route or is this par for the course?
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Jul 5, 2013 07:53
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:@Good_Haro: That actually sounds really interesting, and I was wondering if there were any good BL games that didn't follow the creepy "uke/seme" casual rape bullshit that seems to be nigh-ubiquitous from what little I've seen. Too bad I don't know Japanese! Par for course. I love your reactions. It's like looking into a mirror of me from around the beginning of this thread.  Only you post in a much better way than I did, so keep it up! 
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Jul 5, 2013 07:56
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:I was wondering, does MLA have multiple routes? Like, one for each heroine? Takeru keeps talking about how in love he is with Sumika and people keep implying Kasumi and him are involved and I'm worried it's leading up to him having inappropriate relations with Kasumi and she looks like she's twelve and I just nope no no no no I don't care if Oba-chan says they're around the same age nOPE There's only one route and nothing inappropriate happens with Kasumi.
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Jul 5, 2013 08:02
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Artificer posted:Par for course. I love your reactions. It's like looking into a mirror of me from around the beginning of this thread. Well, thank god. And shucks! I'm glad you're enjoying my commentary.  Half the fun of playing VNs is posting here and seeing people go "hahaha you have no idea what the gently caress you're in for" and then going back later to laugh at how clueless I was. On that note, I guess I'll post some more of my thoughts:I just got to the part where you go back to the other world for a few hours, where Takeru gets to talk to Sumika some and afterwards learns about what Kasumi is and Alternatives I through III. I'm really unbelievably curious about Alternative IV and the brain in the jar now! Unit 00 is probably a custom TSF for Kasumi. Maybe she can use her psychic powers to make herself invisible to everyone else, go to the main hive, and self-destruct? I'm pretty sure whatever it is, it's going to involve her dying. I don't think Kasumi is Sumika anymore. The name is a red herring and it's been explained how she knows so many things that only Sumika would (reading his mind), the ages don't line up, and she doesn't look as similar as I remember (Tama's bangs look more like Sumika's than Kasumi's do). Which just leaves the question of... where the hell is Sumika? Does she really just not exist when everyone else does? I kind of feel like Takeru is going to accidentally end up bringing her to the 'other world', seeing as it's been shown he can transport objects. So why not another person? Also Yuuko keeps talking about how she suddenly forgets Takeru exists every time the experiment happens. I keep thinking it's going to malfunction and everyone in the "other world" is going to permanently forget Takeru exists 
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Jul 5, 2013 08:13
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:@Good_Haro: That actually sounds really interesting, and I was wondering if there were any good BL games that didn't follow the creepy "uke/seme" casual rape bullshit that seems to be nigh-ubiquitous from what little I've seen. Too bad I don't know Japanese! Yeah the story's really good and the characters are pretty well developed. Haru's an interesting lead for sure. The game isn't completely free of less than consensual sex, but it's handled differently than usual? Like it's not the standard, terrible "oh he raped me because he loves me sooo much!" romance thing, but there is a fair bit of like... well, minor spoilers: the guys consenting to sex for ulterior reasons––like building a relationship with the MC to get information out of him/etc. Aside from Hiroyuki's route (from what I've heard, I've only finished Ryu's so far), the routes aren't really romantic so much as the characters mutually using and taking advantage of each other and the sex is often part of that.
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Jul 5, 2013 08:23
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Well, thank god. Hahahah rest assured every time I see you post about it I'm thinking "Oh boy he has no idea  "
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Jul 5, 2013 08:46
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Well, thank god. It's uncanny how much your theories mirror mine as I played through. Related to the multiple routes question, Alternative is basically the "True" route to Unlimited guess which heroine it corresponds to, which couldn't be made due to time/budget constraints, so it eventually got released 3 years later as its own game that's three times as long as Extra+UL combined.
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Jul 5, 2013 09:00
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C-BOX posted:Yo all you chucklefucks dissing If My Heart Had Wings are missing out on the best visual novel ever: I bought this game because it seemed legit, and it's nice to look at. But everywhere(else) on the internet it's a big shitstorm about how its been butchered beyond recognition and rabblerabblerabble kill moenovel... Has anyone here played it yet? Is it any good?
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Jul 5, 2013 09:57
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StrixNebulosa posted:MangaGamer just announced via twitter that they're bringing over (among other things) Kara no Shoujo 2 and Cartagra, so if anyone enjoyed Kara no Shoujo - well, it's great news, because that game left a few unresolved plot threads that hopefully the sequel/prequel will clear up. Looking forward to Kara no Shoujo 2 and Cartagra which I believe uses some of the same characters. The rest of the games look porny as hell though. So not interested at all in those.
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Jul 5, 2013 12:06
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Sinking Ship posted:I bought this game because it seemed legit, and it's nice to look at. But everywhere(else) on the internet it's a big shitstorm about how its been butchered beyond recognition and rabblerabblerabble kill moenovel... Depends on your tolerance for painfully stiff and awkward translations Ibram Gaunt posted:That's great news. I'm hoping they actually get VA for KnS2 this time around...But then again someone will always release a patch eventually. They will have voices. They're also releasing an official voice patch for the first game. There was apparently some confusion about who owned the rights the first time around. They're also using the same translator as the first one, and he's good, so they should be nice releases all around
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Jul 5, 2013 13:30
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As my first foray into adventure games loved the hell out of Resonance; does anyone got any visual novel recommendations that are kinda similar? I'm looking for some sort of mystery-thriller scifi or no, preferably with a female protagonist but it isn't a deal breaker. So already went through, looking into, or started: Saya no Uta. Tsukihime. Fate/Stay Night. Dangenronpa. Muvluv. Aoishiro.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:03
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Raenir Salazar posted:Dangenronpa.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:19
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Raenir Salazar posted:As my first foray into adventure games loved the hell out of Resonance; does anyone got any visual novel recommendations that are kinda similar? I'm looking for some sort of mystery-thriller scifi or no, preferably with a female protagonist but it isn't a deal breaker. Steins;Gate is a mystery-thriller sci-fi VN, probably a pretty good candidate, no female protagonist. I didn't like YU-NO all that much but it is an adventure game sci-fi thing. Again no female protagonist though.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:As my first foray into adventure games loved the hell out of Resonance; does anyone got any visual novel recommendations that are kinda similar? I'm looking for some sort of mystery-thriller scifi or no, preferably with a female protagonist but it isn't a deal breaker. To the Moon is probably worth trying.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:41
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Raenir Salazar posted:As my first foray into adventure games loved the hell out of Resonance; does anyone got any visual novel recommendations that are kinda similar? I'm looking for some sort of mystery-thriller scifi or no, preferably with a female protagonist but it isn't a deal breaker. Umineko/Higurashi. Higurashi doesn't have a female protagonist per say, but some of the later arcs are told from the viewpoints of the female cast. Maybe G-Senjou No Maou. 999 and Virtue's Last Reward. Female Protagonists are kinda rare outside of Otome games, sorry.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:35
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Umineko is a straight up mystery novel (a crazy one yes, but one none the less) and is pretty awesome.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:57
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Raenir Salazar posted:As my first foray into adventure games loved the hell out of Resonance; does anyone got any visual novel recommendations that are kinda similar? I'm looking for some sort of mystery-thriller scifi or no, preferably with a female protagonist but it isn't a deal breaker. No female protagonists on any of these because it's rare. I have mixed feelings about it, but chaos;head is a well-polished sci-fi mystery-thriller, and though I have yet to read it, steins;gate also fits the bill and receives a lot of praise. I'll also mention Ever17 for completeness sake. It's not that good; the better parts are its use of VN as a medium rather than just a book with pictures, and the payoff at the end, but writing is spotty and the science is worse. But it's a sci-fi mystery thriller, so there. Diverging a bit, Divi Dead. Not sci-fi (more occult), porny and old, but it's pretty good - there are plots within plots and hidden agendas on the cast, so it maintains an strong atmosphere of suspense all throughout, starting with the prologue cinematic, and takes doing all the routes to really get a full picture of how deep the rabbit hole goes. It's not that long either, so it's worth checking out before diving into huge stories like Higurashi or Umineko.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:43
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I have nothing against supernatural stories and I'll look into anything anyone rec's as good. I've seen the Steins;Gate anime, its something I'll probably look into but not until stuff I'm less familiar with is done first. Umineko I think I'll splurge soon into as I wanted to know how the dang story ends (saw the anime first) and because I hear the anime was an inferior adaption and very very different. Shame on female protagonists being rare, Japan needs to step it up a notch there. Rin was pretty awesome in Fate/Stay Night and could use more like that.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:18
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I don't know but I always ultimately considered Rika the protagonist of Higurashi. Though it takes awhile to get there.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:31
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Good_Haro posted:Yeah the story's really good and the characters are pretty well developed. Haru's an interesting lead for sure.  Are there any decent BL games with English translations out that you'd recommend?Raenir Salazar posted:Shame on female protagonists being rare, Japan needs to step it up a notch there. Rin was pretty awesome in Fate/Stay Night and could use more like that.  And the other routes would have you play as different ladies, like Ilya and Sakura or maybe Rider or something. It would be really cool to play a Fate game that takes place from the servant's point of view.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:47
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Stall_19 posted:I don't know but I always ultimately considered Rika the protagonist of Higurashi. Though it takes awhile to get there.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:51
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Well, that's better than the "ouch it hurts, no but yes" bullshit that Japan loves so much Heh, honestly, my favorite scene in the UBW path was when Rin and Saber made a contract just in time for Saber to save Shirou and kick Archer's rear end. Of course Saber kind of got cockblocked shortly afterward but it was sweet while it lasted. Having the dramatic title screen music kick in helped.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:54
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Well, that's better than the "ouch it hurts, no but yes" bullshit that Japan loves so much Hmm, although I hesitate to describe it as particularly "good" Dramatical Murder's probably your best bet. Avoid Mink's route because its all stupid rape coupled with really lovely writing (it reads like 3 very different iterations hastily pasted together with little regard for continuity). The rest is kinda dumb, but enjoyable? Though I think most of my fondness for the game comes from making fun of it to be honest.
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Jul 6, 2013 04:16
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Good_Haro: I've been meaning to ask you: would it be fair to say that a problem with Otome/BL games is that, for the most part, they haven't risen above the genre tropes in the same way that "traditional" male-focused VNs has done with works such as Ever17, 999, Gen Urobachi's works, Muv Luv Alternative and so on? (I know the ratio is still kind of low for male-focused works, but at least there are a few. I have not heard about any particular subversive BL/Otome game yet but then again, I don't actively search for them) If not, is there a BL/Otome game that's similar to what I just named?
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Jul 6, 2013 04:23
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JAST is having their yearly AX panel in a bit. They've been teasing a Steins;Gate announcement pretty heavily over the past few months, so expect to see something on that front.
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Jul 6, 2013 04:36
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The reveal just ends up being Chaos;Head's official release.  I really hope Jast gets Hanachirasu out here sometime soon speaking of. I pre-ordered it ages ago at this point.
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Jul 6, 2013 04:45
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Davzz posted:Good_Haro: I've been meaning to ask you: would it be fair to say that a problem with Otome/BL games is that, for the most part, they haven't risen above the genre tropes in the same way that "traditional" male-focused VNs has done with works such as Ever17, 999, Gen Urobachi's works, Muv Luv Alternative and so on? Hmm, well, I'm far from an expert on the subject, but generally speaking otome games have a much more normal/mainstream audience, so they tend to play it safe and repeat a lot of the same stuff (male idols for example) And tend to be 'lighter' in general. BL on the other hand is decidedly niche. I think that's given creators--especially lately--a lot more leeway to experiment. That said there are a lot of standard tropes that many games can't seem to avoid (a lot of this poo poo is ingrained in the BL genre as a whole). But there are plenty of examples of formula breaking titles (Nitro+Chiral's Sweet Pool comes to mind if you're looking for something Urobuchi-esque). Though, just to put things into perspective: by the end of this year 10 (or possibly less if delays happen) BL games will have been released. At least three of those titles are decidedly less traditional in some manner or other (No, Thank You!!! being one of those). Otome on the other hand will see about 50 new titles, only a handful of which are R-18 (pretty much every BL title is). I don't follow otome so closely so I cant give numbers on the mould-breaking titles but proportionally it's much lower. I think on the whole it's a numbers/audience thing. There are probably hundreds of eroge released every year and they're geared to a very niche market, part of which likes interesting narratives with their porn. Otome audiences on the other hand are largely normalish girls who want to date cute boys who are also idols.
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Jul 6, 2013 04:47
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Pornographic Memory posted:Heh, honestly, my favorite scene in the UBW path was when Rin and Saber made a contract just in time for Saber to save Shirou and kick Archer's rear end. Of course Saber kind of got cockblocked shortly afterward but it was sweet while it lasted. Having the dramatic title screen music kick in helped.  @Good_Haro: Well, 'silly but fun to make fun of' is better than nothing. I've always wanted to play through a good BL or otome game. One with a plot as good as F/SN would be great, but yeah that's. Not likely. And seeing one translated to English seems even less likely. Was Togainu no Chi any good? I remember hearing the name a few times and the art looked pretty, and I think it was mentioned in this thread, but I don't remember what was said. Also going back to the subject of MLA: I'm at the part where there's a coup d'etat and Takeru has to guard the Shogun. I knew Meiya had to be more closely related to the shogun than a 'distant relative' but didn't think she'd be her twin. Miki talking to the lieutenant from Finland is really sweet but I'm afraid she's going to die horribly because I'm used to games conditioning me to be fond of a character only for something awful to happen a few minutes later 
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Jul 6, 2013 05:28
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Davzz posted:Good_Haro: I've been meaning to ask you: would it be fair to say that a problem with Otome/BL games is that, for the most part, they haven't risen above the genre tropes in the same way that "traditional" male-focused VNs has done with works such as Ever17, 999, Gen Urobachi's works, Muv Luv Alternative and so on? I hope you don't mind me throwing my opinion in. I've played several otome games and the main focus is always romance. Now, that may not sound bad in and of itself since so many VN's have a large focus on romance already, but otome games are a bit different. They are almost literally Harlequin novels. From what I've seen of BL games, they're pretty guilty of this too. Is there really any difference between Nessa no Rakuen and actual Harlequin book The Playboy Sheikh's Virgin Stable Girl besides gender? So basically, unless you love the innate comedy that trashy romance books bring to the table, you won't enjoy otome games.
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Jul 6, 2013 05:56
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The problem with someone other then Shirou being the main character of FSN is that the story is entirely about him. His worldview, his motivations, and how he develops. It wouldn't even be the same story by the end.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:07
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JAST panel is going on now, they're talking about stuff they've released recently (School Days).
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Jul 6, 2013 06:26
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Also going back to the subject of MLA: Dr Pepper posted:The problem with someone other then Shirou being the main character of FSN is that the story is entirely about him. His worldview, his motivations, and how he develops. It wouldn't even be the same story by the end.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:26
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JAST just announced Shiny Days, another game in the School Days franchise. I'll be updating this post with more stuff as the panel progresses. EDIT: You can read a liveblog of the panel here. Stall_19 posted:I wasn't aware that was a franchise. Shiny Days is a remake of sorts of Summer Days. There's School Days (the original story), Summer Days (prequel in the Summer before School Days, less drama), and Cross Days (different protagonist, basically a huge troll by 0verflow, sort of hilarious in how intentionally dumb as hell the whole thing is). Next announcement: My Girlfriend is the President fandisc. Meh. Continued: Hanachirasu is the next game they're planning on bringing out. I know Makoto has said that he intends to buckle down on it as soon as they get back from AX, so hopefully that won't take TOO long. (JAST time lol) Continued: Still working on Sumaga and Django. Continued: STEINS;GATE CONFIRMED, gently caress YES Continued: Yumina has gone gold and should be shipping early next month. Continued: They're still working on other previously announced games (Trample on Schatten, Seinarukana, Starless). Continued: Announcing other games now. Couple of nukiges... Continued: 23:06:53 <bay|AX|JAST> next, I don't think this needs an itnroduction 23:06:56 <bay|AX|JAST> i think you will know it instantly Hmmmm... Continued: Lol its just more Raidy games. Continued: Little Witch Romanesque for their final announcement. Continued: Q&A Stuff quote:23:26:52 <bay|AX|JAST> Q: Current status of Muramasa? And that's the end of the panel. jonjonaug fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 06:30
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I wasn't aware that was a franchise.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:33
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Nephilm posted:Even his sexism is part of his character; narrow and childlike worldview (in this case traditionalist gallantry) and stubborn adherence to it. Then gently caress with him by having his closest allies be women stronger than him, but the joke is that even Taiga is very unlady-like. Shirou is literally a stereotypical Japanese housewife as part of the joke too. He does all the cooking, cleaning, shopping. He manages the finances and gossips with the other ladies.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:36
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Yeah, Fate would be a radically different thing if Shirou wasn't the protagonist, but I agree it would be fun to get the story from other perspectives, which is why I seem to be alone in especially liking the prologue and didn't mind wading through it. Instead of a sequel, I'd probably be more interested in hollow ataraxia if it told bits and pieces of Fate from the perspective of different characters. I wonder if something like that was too ambitious even for Nasu, whose trademark is protagonist-driven stories. His stories rely on a heavily developed main character to function.
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Jul 6, 2013 07:21
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I liked the FSN prologue quite a lot; I imagine Mahoyo is something like that, in from the perspective of a competent magus.
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Jul 6, 2013 07:46
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Was Togainu no Chi any good? That depends on whether you think Deadman Wonderland would've been better if every fight ended in rape.
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Jul 6, 2013 08:19
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:@Good_Haro: Well, 'silly but fun to make fun of' is better than nothing. I've always wanted to play through a good BL or otome game. One with a plot as good as F/SN would be great, but yeah that's. Not likely. And seeing one translated to English seems even less likely. Well, DMMd's plot has... issues. Some of the routes are a lot better than others. The writers' strengths (allegedly it's all one writer but I don't believe it for a drat second, unless she has alzheimer's or something) seem to be more in character interaction than coming up with a coherent story. On the whole though, it's pretty cheesy but it's got decent production values and as dumb as it gets I guess it's kinda fun? Especially if you don't take it too seriously. The production values are pretty high and the music is good. I couldn't get through Togainu, it's just so oppressively DARK AND EDGY and the MC has both the personality and intelligence of a rock. The art and interface are painfully dated too. However, some people really like it? I wouldn't recommend it personally. Sweet Pool's premise is ludicrous and hard not to laugh at, but comparatively it's probably the best written N+C title. Supposedly an English patch is nearly finished, but it's been 'nearly finished' for years now. If you're into horror and can keep a straight face through things like: menstruating alien demons inhabiting the MC's rear end, the MC and his boyfriend literally giving birth to the antichrist (I sure couldn't, but it was entertaining nonetheless) it's pretty good I guess. I think the main strength is in the atmosphere, I have to give it credit for that even though I couldn't take it seriously for any period of time. I haven't played Lamento, despite hearing it's supposed to be the best N+C title because I have a visceral aversion to cat-eared characters and mpreg. BL is fundamentally a porn genre so it has a lot of the same problems eroge has as a genre. The vast majority of titles are focused on romance and porn (generally in that order and comparatively light on the porn side because, you know how ladies are) and the stories tend to be more of an excuse to date cute boys (and then get them to bang the MC). I don't really think it's that different from regular eroge, honestly, lady-oriented R-18 games have their own subset of problems but it's all pretty much the same kind of poo poo as male-oriented ones. At any rate, if you can't read Japanese your selection is extremely limited. At the moment it's basically between DMMd and Toganiu if you exclude the straight up nukige. I guess there's also Silver Chaos, but it too is extremely stupid. At any rate, BL seems to be changing a lot lately thanks to the success of some more fringe titles (not to bring up Hadaka Shitsuji, but had it not set an example of a reasonably successful BL game with a seme protagonist (and generally being pretty out there), I don't think a great game like No, Thank You!!! would have been made). And hell, while (Temporary) God ultimately ended up being a kind of boring romance title, they did a lot of rather innovative things for BL (like characters actually wanting to have sex with each other and saying so). Night Gaunt posted:I hope you don't mind me throwing my opinion in. I've played several otome games and the main focus is always romance. Now, that may not sound bad in and of itself since so many VN's have a large focus on romance already, but otome games are a bit different. They are almost literally Harlequin novels. From what I've seen of BL games, they're pretty guilty of this too. Is there really any difference between Nessa no Rakuen and actual Harlequin book The Playboy Sheikh's Virgin Stable Girl besides gender? I'd hesitate to lump otome in with BL like that. R-18 otome is pretty rare and most of it is really, really awful. Otome's a lot more comparable to shoujo manga on the whole. It's romance-oriented first and foremost but I wouldn't really call it trashy most of the time? Usually the raciest mainstream otome gets is ~implied off-screen sex~ how scandalous. And I dunno, sometimes there's other stuff of interest, like how UtaPri has the rhythm game mechanic and it's also pretty funny. Though, again, I don't really see how this is fundamentally any different from the rest of the genre as a whole. Most of this thread's beloved VNs have romance as a central focus on some level and most of them have lots of trashy porn. I'd try to recommend something as a counterpoint, but I don't play a lot of otome because there's just so much of it and it's extremely hit or miss. BL is a lot easier to keep up with and there's a lot more variety in the kinds of stories being told (vs. lol date more idols in high school!). Hatoful is probably legitimately the best otome game available in English at least.
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Jul 6, 2013 08:45
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It's true that F/SN did kind of rely on Shirou as the centerpiece of the plot, with each route kind of exploring a certain facet, but I do still think it could've been an effective game with Rin as the protagonist. It's just true that, yeah, it would be an extremely different story. I liked the prologue a lot too - the reason most people found it boring is probably because F/SN is wordy as heck and the translation is kind of stiff. That being the first introduction to how it's written in addition to a bunch of exposition that might be initially hard to swallow would probably leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. It took a few ingame days for me to get used to some of the quirks of the writing. I was definitely able to appreciate the prologue a lot more the second time through. The way Rin narrates is hilariously blunt at times. "Magic is just what it sounds like... magic. I don't care if you get ideas like abracadabra or whatever. You can just think of us as people who do strange things by casting spells." It's just enjoyable to play as someone who isn't a total moron like Shirou. I don't know why so many game writers seem to think playing as an idiot protagonist is a necessity? Like, yeah, it's an easy way to establish exposition because everyone has to tell the protagonist (and by extension, you) what he doesn't know, but Rin establishes a lot of the setting without holding the player's hand and there are plenty of ways to balance exposition and having a protagonist who's actually competent. MLA Takeru is way more tolerable to play as, thank god. Gackt posted:That depends on whether you think Deadman Wonderland would've been better if every fight ended in rape. Good_Haro posted:stuff  Issues notwithstanding, maybe I'll check out DMMd once I'm through with MLA. Thanks! Speaking of MLA, I just got to the part where they graduate and I couldn't help tearing up a little. I'm about to get to the real tears, aren't I?
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Jul 6, 2013 10:09
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