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Dave47 posted:This article's central idea is that allowing people to commute to and from their jobs during a public transit strike is the "dark side" of private transit. But if we're going to adopt the logic that everyone must suffer equally, then why exactly do BART employees deserve a raise? We're all supposed to be suffering together, remember! Those aren't really the same. If no one can make it to work, and this causes the BART management to accept BART labor's demands, then that is temporary suffering by everyone to permanently improve life for BART workers. The BART workers would then theoretically be willing to temporarily suffer to improve some other group's lives in the future. If on the other hand BART employees have to deal with lovely working conditions, don't get raises, etc, then nobody's life improves on a permanent basis (except I suppose the BART management).
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Jul 4, 2013 00:19
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Dave47 posted:This article's central idea is that allowing people to commute to and from their jobs during a public transit strike is the "dark side" of private transit. But if we're going to adopt the logic that everyone must suffer equally, then why exactly do BART employees deserve a raise? We're all supposed to be suffering together, remember! Might want to re-read that article again. The article I read was about how affluent workers are largely unaffected by this strike, highlighting the wealth inequality that exists in the Bay area.
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Jul 4, 2013 00:32
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NSFW has a grand piece by Yasha Levine in this month's print issue (I'll unlock it for the thread when they put it online) that's basically a tour guide for outsiders to the oligarchs of the San Joaquin Valley. I moved away from Cal in the early 90s, so while I knew about Cowschwitz and Tejon, I never knew about the massive poo poo plant or the Fiji water assholes' massive mansion there. e- here's the first part/teaser: https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/oligarch-valley/29f2d59a4ed8ba67cbefb9eb8c2513be10d3567b/ GD_American fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 02:18
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GD_American posted:NSFW has a grand piece by Yasha Levine in this month's print issue (I'll unlock it for the thread when they put it online) that's basically a tour guide for outsiders to the oligarchs of the San Joaquin Valley. I moved away from Cal in the early 90s, so while I knew about Cowschwitz and Tejon, I never knew about the massive poo poo plant or the Fiji water assholes' massive mansion there. Thanks for the link, was a interesting read.
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Jul 4, 2013 03:03
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Its amazing how virtually no articles bother to discuss the drat difference between take home pay and benefits pay. If you search here for darryl wrong witness a station attendant who makes a whopping $23k (which is more like $19k after taxes). Of course he receives a lot of money in medical benefits (hes making out like a bandit!!!) so i guess his real salary is $52,000 http://www.mercurynews.com/salaries/bay-area/2012 Journalism is more or less a joke when it comes to presenting facts objectively for unions. Same exact thing happened with UAW
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Jul 4, 2013 06:18
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coolskillrex remix posted:Its amazing how virtually no articles bother to discuss the drat difference between take home pay and benefits pay. Yeah, The Nation has a good post about this: http://www.thenation.com/blog/175063/bart-strike-another-instance-media-portraying-workers-greedy No one ever seems to bring up the fact that the BART has a budget surplus, that BART management makes 6 figures, and management can keep getting paid for a year while doing no work: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_23416601/barts-top-paid-worker-2012-never-worked-day
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Jul 4, 2013 06:47
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GD_American posted:NSFW has a grand piece by Yasha Levine in this month's print issue (I'll unlock it for the thread when they put it online) that's basically a tour guide for outsiders to the oligarchs of the San Joaquin Valley. I moved away from Cal in the early 90s, so while I knew about Cowschwitz and Tejon, I never knew about the massive poo poo plant or the Fiji water assholes' massive mansion there. God Dammit you guys 
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Jul 4, 2013 07:11
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Van5 posted:God Dammit you guys It's a eye opening article, I always wondered why things looked so bad in the Central valley for things such as the unemployment rate.
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Jul 4, 2013 21:07
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GD_American posted:NSFW has a grand piece by Yasha Levine in this month's print issue (I'll unlock it for the thread when they put it online) that's basically a tour guide for outsiders to the oligarchs of the San Joaquin Valley. I moved away from Cal in the early 90s, so while I knew about Cowschwitz and Tejon, I never knew about the massive poo poo plant or the Fiji water assholes' massive mansion there. Man, I always assumed that most of the San Joaquin Valley farmers were white families who actually lived there and set up those "STOP THE OBAMA CREATED DUST BOWL" signs all over the place. The more you know! Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 4, 2013 |
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Jul 4, 2013 21:27
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Here are detailed BART salary figures from that bastion of right-wing propaganda, NPR. http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/07/03/bart/ The data shows employees from the two striking unions make around $78,000 to $81,000, including overtime. The U.S. Census Bureau said the 2010 median household income in San Francisco was $71,745, or $76,644 in 2013 inflation-adjusted dollars. In Marin it was $83,867 ($89,593); Alameda County $67,169 ($71,755); Contra Costa $83,867 ($89,593); San Mateo County $82,745 ($88,395).
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Jul 4, 2013 23:16
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sincx posted:The data shows employees from the two striking unions make around $78,000 to $81,000, including overtime. For reference, base pay is 55-65K.
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Jul 5, 2013 00:12
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GD_American posted:NSFW has a grand piece by Yasha Levine in this month's print issue (I'll unlock it for the thread when they put it online) that's basically a tour guide for outsiders to the oligarchs of the San Joaquin Valley. I moved away from Cal in the early 90s, so while I knew about Cowschwitz and Tejon, I never knew about the massive poo poo plant or the Fiji water assholes' massive mansion there. Holy poo poo, thanks so much for this link. I was able to track the author back to the guy who made the whole series about living in Victorville that I had been looking for for years now. http://exiledonline.com/tag/victorville/
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Jul 5, 2013 00:37
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Zeitgueist posted:For reference, base pay is 55-65K. Where did you get that figure? I'm getting pretty confused because the sources are all saying muddled things with salaries ranging anywhere from $28k-$83k. Can someone explain which employees specifically people are complaining about (i.e. their job title) and what the average salary is with a break down? I want to know the income without including benefits.
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Jul 5, 2013 08:06
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It looks like BART workers agreed to extend the current contract by 30 days, and service will begin again this Friday.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:50
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AshB posted:Where did you get that figure? I'm getting pretty confused because the sources are all saying muddled things with salaries ranging anywhere from $28k-$83k. Can someone explain which employees specifically people are complaining about (i.e. their job title) and what the average salary is with a break down? I want to know the income without including benefits. The same link that article did. That is the mean average without overtime figured in.
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Jul 6, 2013 00:20
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So what I'm understanding is that the two striking unions were Amalgamated Transit Union Local 1555 (ATU) and the Service Employees International Union Local 1021 (SEIU). Their average base salaries excluding overtime are $56,184.97 and $63,529.55 respectively, with medians at $62,614.00 and $73,410.40. The means are pretty low, but I think the medians are pretty close to the median household incomes in nearby Bay Area counties, aren't they?
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Jul 6, 2013 01:02
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Eh, NSFW is not putting it up for unlock, guys. I don't wanna rip off their whole 29 page PDF.
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Jul 6, 2013 04:47
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It is totally worth $7/month.
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Jul 6, 2013 04:58
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withak posted:It is totally worth $7/month. $3 a month for online (which I guess gets you access to some of the print stuff, as they just put it online in a PDF).
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Jul 6, 2013 14:02
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coolskillrex remix posted:Its amazing how virtually no articles bother to discuss the drat difference between take home pay and benefits pay.
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Jul 6, 2013 17:55
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Miss-Bomarc posted:The idea of taxing benefits perpetually recurs, and from both sides of the political aisle ("If we tax benefits then people will understand the true cost of healthcare!" / "If we tax benefits then people will pay money on their actual salary instead of getting to use it as a tax shelter!") So I'm not super-concerned about pay being lumped together into a single number. Particularly when retirement compensation *does* take benefits pay into account. I wouldn't be concerned about it, if it didn't produce a misleadingly high number. When you tell people "She's getting paid X!", they will almost always assume that you mean she gets to take home X minus taxes.
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Jul 6, 2013 18:45
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Combining wages and benefits is intentionally misleading almost certainly to make the workers look like they are getting paid more than they really are. If you ask someone how much they make roughly, how many of them are going to include their benefits? Very few to none. It sounds like BART workers get paid median or less wages for the Bay Area, they have a right to strike especially to keep their wages constant versus price increases. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 19:25
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Ardennes posted:Combining wages and benefits is intentionally misleading almost certainly to make the workers look like they are getting paid more than they really are. If you ask someone how much they make roughly, how many of them are going to include their benefits? Very few to none. A lot of people I have spoken to do mention their benefits. As in, "I make X per hour/month/year plus X/Y/Z benefit." In job interviews I always say that my current job gives me health/vision/dental insurance, catered lunch everyday, 401k match, etc. The idea is that whatever they offer me should exceed the whole package as opposed to just the salary. It doesn't help if the new salary is 10% higher but comes with few or no benefits for example. I'm willing to accept that I'm kind of an outlier though.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:15
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enraged_camel posted:A lot of people I have spoken to do mention their benefits. As in, "I make X per hour/month/year plus X/Y/Z benefit." My point is that usually separate those two things as different values. Yes, people mention and negotiate for benefits, but I haven't met anyone that just lumps in everything into a single figure like the newspapers do. They are just trying to inflate the salaries so public opinion turns harder against the workers, which makes it easier to crush the strike. Our press is not on "our side" here in the US.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:29
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Ardennes posted:My point is that usually separate those two things as different values. Yes, people mention and negotiate for benefits, but I haven't met anyone that just lumps in everything into a single figure like the newspapers do. They are just trying to inflate the salaries so public opinion turns harder against the workers, which makes it easier to crush the strike. I understand. I would love to be able to lump everything into a single figure. The problem is that my employer (private) does not tell us how much each benefit is costing them. For example, if I knew that free catered lunch everyday year-around costs $3,000 per employee, then I could factor that into my salary. But I literally have no idea how much the company is spending on lunch, much less more expensive stuff like insurance and retirement benefits.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:41
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enraged_camel posted:I understand. Some companies give you all the info in a yearly brag sheet, as a somewhat unsubtle encouragement to stick with the company. Usually for a decent white collar job all the benefits especially the health insurance subsidy easily add 15% to even 25% to the salary.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:46
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enraged_camel posted:I understand. You see how your employer hiding that information from you not only prevents you from knowing how well you are compensated, but leaves you overvaluing the compensation of public employees like BART employees? This is a classic way employers use to hide which employees they compensate less too. Plus, if anyone cares about waste at BART, they should care about the fact that the Top Paid Manager at BART worked 0 days for their last year of work (and got paid $333k, and no she isn't Union, she's management). (http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_23416601/barts-top-paid-worker-2012-never-worked-day)
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Jul 6, 2013 22:23
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Trabisnikof posted:You see how your employer hiding that information from you not only prevents you from knowing how well you are compensated, but leaves you overvaluing the compensation of public employees like BART employees? This is a classic way employers use to hide which employees they compensate less too. Two wrongs do not make a right.
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Jul 6, 2013 22:29
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sincx posted:Two wrongs do not make a right. Name in one way how the Unions did anything wrong?
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Jul 6, 2013 22:37
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Trabisnikof posted:Name in one way how the Unions did anything wrong? Demanding raises and safety improvements in one of the most expensive US metro areas.
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Jul 6, 2013 22:39
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etalian posted:Usually for a decent white collar job all the benefits especially the health insurance subsidy easily add 15% to even 25% to the salary. I know at all my jobs the health insurance rates (including increases) were announced by the insurer annually via a formal letter so you knew how much was being subsidized by the firm (from my experiences, around 60-75% was firm-covered).
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Jul 6, 2013 22:50
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All this talk of the increasing lack of security amongst Bart employees; wasn't there a lot of rabble a while ago about disbanding the Bart police? Yes, this sounds familiar.
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Jul 6, 2013 23:29
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Kyrie eleison posted:All this talk of the increasing lack of security amongst Bart employees; wasn't there a lot of rabble a while ago about disbanding the Bart police? Yes, this sounds familiar. The issue with the BART police is that they kept shooting unarmed people (See, Fruitvale). One of the big union demands is bulletproof glass in the station attendants' booths.
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Jul 6, 2013 23:58
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Kyrie eleison posted:All this talk of the increasing lack of security amongst Bart employees; wasn't there a lot of rabble a while ago about disbanding the Bart police? Yes, this sounds familiar. (With sound: watch?v=kLjYhdCf_YA ) (Six views of the incident: watch?v=rSN5WF9qD3g ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2LDw5l_yMI Different day, different victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rAlaNyZCH8 How to handle an angry drunk guy (if youre a BART cop) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2DFPFJIM8 Speaking of those little darlings, I love how the prison "guards" pull the "tough on crime" bullshit and then stories like this always come out: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/04/local/la-me-prison-guards-20110204 quote:Prison employees, roughly half of whom are unionized guards, are the main source of smuggled phones that inmates use to run drugs and other crimes, according to legislative analysts who examined the problem last year. The rightwing will lock onto the word "union" and ignore the rest. "Unions are giving inmates illegal contraband!" Ah well. http://www.policynook.com/index/2012/9/25/california-prison-guard-union-the-toughest-beast-in-the-stat.html quote:The California correctional officers’ union (CCPOA) has been guarding more than just prison inmates. As one of the most influential special interest groups in the state, it has secured and steadfastly held onto some of the highest salaries and benefits awarded to state employees.
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Jul 7, 2013 01:29
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Trabisnikof posted:The issue with the BART police is that they kept shooting unarmed people (See, Fruitvale). One of the big union demands is bulletproof glass in the station attendants' booths. I worked with the director of that movie. Coincidentally, we're both part of SEIU 1021, which represents a large amount of BART employees. Despite how much my coworkers complained about being part of them, they did manage to save a lot of jobs for us. As a union guy and as someone who doesn't have to take BART, I stand behind them as they haven't had a raise in five years. I know asking for 23% over three years is a lot, but I know that they won't get it and they're most likely starting with a high number to negotiate with.
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Jul 7, 2013 03:37
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Yeah that is how negotiations work. If the initial offer doesn't offend the other party then you are doing it wrong.
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Jul 7, 2013 03:46
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Late to the party but wanted to throw up this map depicting climates across California based on the Koeppen climate classification system. Sorry that it literally looks like throw-up, I pulled the data from some work I did in graduate school and made a map post haste and can't be bothered with intricate color maps (or a key!). You'll get the point anyways, which is the San Joaquin Valley is all arid/semi-arid, similar to the southeast quarter of the state. Thus Bakersfield and Fresno have climates more like wonderful locales such as El Centro, Barstow, Yuma (and Phoenix further east) than points further north in the Sacramento Valley. Yes, there used to be a big loving lake there, but that was due to the big loving mountains (which interestingly are closer to an arctic climate) where lots of rain and snow typically fall.
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Jul 7, 2013 10:45
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withak posted:Yeah that is how negotiations work. If the initial offer doesn't offend the other party then you are doing it wrong. The side that makes the initial offers tends to do worse in the negotiation too.
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Jul 7, 2013 14:17
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Cross-posting from a few other threads: Female inmates sterilized in California prisons without approval quote:Doctors under contract with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation sterilized nearly 150 female inmates from 2006 to 2010 without required state approvals, the Center for Investigative Reporting has found. Yet another horrifying facet of justice in California.
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Jul 8, 2013 21:21
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SirPablo posted:Late to the party but wanted to throw up this map depicting climates across California based on the Koeppen climate classification system. Sorry that it literally looks like throw-up, I pulled the data from some work I did in graduate school and made a map post haste and can't be bothered with intricate color maps (or a key!). You'll get the point anyways, which is the San Joaquin Valley is all arid/semi-arid, similar to the southeast quarter of the state. Thus Bakersfield and Fresno have climates more like wonderful locales such as El Centro, Barstow, Yuma (and Phoenix further east) than points further north in the Sacramento Valley. Yes, there used to be a big loving lake there, but that was due to the big loving mountains (which interestingly are closer to an arctic climate) where lots of rain and snow typically fall. Could you put a key up with that?
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Jul 8, 2013 21:24
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