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lonelywurm
Aug 10, 2009

PittTheElder posted:

In a sane world, this is how things would work. But regardless of whether this had anything to do with government policy (I certainly don't know), if you want to attack the government, you pretty much have to do it immediately. 3 months from now when we do get an official report, everyone will have stopped caring. The only coverage it's going to get outside of the local area is a 2 minute news brief.
3 months? The VIA derailment that happened outside my apartment in February, 2012 didn't have its final report released until June 10, 2013. So 15 months. I can't see this one being produced any faster.

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
One of the many horrible Catch-22s in politics is that you're allowed to predict that tragedies will happen because of your opponent's policies, but you're not allowed to actually point it out when it happens.

If you say that lax gun control will lead to more mass shootings that's fine, but if you point out after a mass shooting that more gun control might have prevented it, that's not allowed.
If you say that climate change will cause more and stronger hurricanes that will reach further up the east coast that's okay, but if you point out that Hurricane Sandy probably wouldn't have been a big deal without climate change, that's not okay.
If you say that deregulating everything in sight will lead to reduced safety and oversight and will make deadly tragedies more likely that's fine, but if a train or a fertilizer plant explodes and people die, pointing out that these events may have been prevented with stricter regulations is not okay.

It's 'politicizing a tragedy'. And maybe it's unacceptable, maybe it's not. Another key point to be made is that it literally doesn't matter what you do or say, the other two main parties will criticize you for it. The least surprising bit of that NP article comes at the very beginning, when Mulcair says something and it's like 'Conservatives and Liberals both attacked him for it'. In today's political climate, literally anything Harper says or does will be criticized by Mulcair and Trudeau, literally anything Mulcair does will be criticized by Harper and Trudeau, and literally anything Trudeau says or does will be criticized by Harper and Mulcair. All of that includes doing nothing, by the way--they would get criticized just as much for not saying or doing anything as they would be for saying or doing anything, just look at when the NDP was noncommittal about Quebec's turban ban when first asked for a comment.

It's like the Republican criticism of Obama in the US whenever he opens his mouth, only we have three party leaders who will all do their best to attack each other over literally anything instead of one party leader and a gang of angry children.

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010

Twiin posted:

He won the nomination today, to the shock of the riding association, who had been backing a local community activist, a disabled woman of colour. Adam had no connection to that community.

People are pissed off. No one knows where he got the votes from. And there are some serious conflict of interest concerns. It might get very messy.

Doesn't this sound familiar. Just posting to say gently caress the Ontario NDP. Our riding, Etobicoke North, was forced to reject a local candidate in favour of one who didn't even live in the loving riding. People went to the nomination meeting and found out that this random middle-class Indian dude was the only nominated candidate, and it went as well as you would expect.

quote:

As Andrews continued questioning the chair’s decision, Piatkowski got visibly annoyed. “Stop interrupting and we’re going to acclaim the candidate.”

That prompted federal NDP riding association president Patricia Crooks to exclaim from the back of the room, “If you were in Richmond Hill or downtown Toronto, you could not do this! You’re insulting us! This is not democratic! Cancel the meeting!”

Piatkowski pressed on with the meeting asking those present to vote to accept Sharma’s nomination, at which point Andrews shouted, “This is terrible! You don’t care about the community!”

...

Only four people in the room raised placards endorsing Sharma’s candidacy. Piatkowski then announced that the result confirms Sharma as the party’s candidate, refusing calls from the floor demanding that they be given the right to vote against.


The Giambrone case stinks to high heaven because there is a strong chance that it was done not in the interests of whom the NDP purport to serve, but to gain the votes of who they believed to be "the middle class" in the region. It is no secret that, in Etobicoke North, all parties have been seeking to gain votes among the South Asian community; Harper even did a photo-op at that beautiful temple near the 427. But what I've seen in the last few years that disturbs me is that there is basically no political outreach in this riding to anyone else anymore. The Greens, IIRC, were able to break double digits by capitalizing on this in the last election. As for me, I'm not really sure I'll bother even spoiling my ballot.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Twiin posted:

ONDP Nomination News!

Adam Giambrone was co-chair of the candidate search committee and chair of the nominations committee for the Ontario NDP.

On Wednesday he said he wasn't running for any byelection nominations.

On Friday morning he resigned from the committees, and on Friday afternoon he announced his nomination for Scarborough-Guildwood.

He won the nomination today, to the shock of the riding association, who had been backing a local community activist, a disabled woman of colour. Adam had no connection to that community.

People are pissed off. No one knows where he got the votes from. And there are some serious conflict of interest concerns. It might get very messy.

I just got caught up thanks to Audra Williams' great post on this, and that makes it sound even scummier than you did. I had forgotten how thoroughly ghastly the mayoral sex stuff was.

Great job, ONDP.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

vyelkin posted:

One of the many horrible Catch-22s in politics is that you're allowed to predict that tragedies will happen because of your opponent's policies, but you're not allowed to actually point it out when it happens.

If you say that lax gun control will lead to more mass shootings that's fine, but if you point out after a mass shooting that more gun control might have prevented it, that's not allowed.
If you say that climate change will cause more and stronger hurricanes that will reach further up the east coast that's okay, but if you point out that Hurricane Sandy probably wouldn't have been a big deal without climate change, that's not okay.
If you say that deregulating everything in sight will lead to reduced safety and oversight and will make deadly tragedies more likely that's fine, but if a train or a fertilizer plant explodes and people die, pointing out that these events may have been prevented with stricter regulations is not okay.

It's 'politicizing a tragedy'. And maybe it's unacceptable, maybe it's not. Another key point to be made is that it literally doesn't matter what you do or say, the other two main parties will criticize you for it. The least surprising bit of that NP article comes at the very beginning, when Mulcair says something and it's like 'Conservatives and Liberals both attacked him for it'. In today's political climate, literally anything Harper says or does will be criticized by Mulcair and Trudeau, literally anything Mulcair does will be criticized by Harper and Trudeau, and literally anything Trudeau says or does will be criticized by Harper and Mulcair. All of that includes doing nothing, by the way--they would get criticized just as much for not saying or doing anything as they would be for saying or doing anything, just look at when the NDP was noncommittal about Quebec's turban ban when first asked for a comment.

It's like the Republican criticism of Obama in the US whenever he opens his mouth, only we have three party leaders who will all do their best to attack each other over literally anything instead of one party leader and a gang of angry children.

"If oil had pipeline this not happen" is perfectly fine though. And all of you socialist enviro-weenies are monsters for trying to exploit this tragedy.

Seriously though. Pipelines. We should build more of them.

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 9, 2013

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Where is exactly was that oil going anyways and was anyone actually itching to build a pipeline through that tourist town?

Depending on the answers, I'd say it's more crass to start the pipeline talk again than to suggest that cutting funding to transportation safety might have contributed to a transportation accident.

Political Whores
Feb 13, 2012

Wasn't the oil coming in from the US? I heard it was a shipment from North Dakota heading to Saint John's for refining.

E: Found a news link, though it's not where I remember hearing it from.
http://news.yahoo.com/canadian-oil-train-headed-irvings-saint-john-refinery-191528931.html

Pinterest Mom posted:

I just got caught up thanks to Audra Williams' great post on this, and that makes it sound even scummier than you did. I had forgotten how thoroughly ghastly the mayoral sex stuff was.

Great job, ONDP.

What I'm trying to figure out is how he won. There are no claims there was any rigging involved, so I'm guessing it's just that being a white person was enough to convince people in the riding association to vote for him. I don't know, I naively expected better from the ONDP.

Political Whores fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jul 9, 2013

Daynab
Aug 5, 2008

Official death toll is up to 13, with around 50 people still "missing".

Alctel
Jan 16, 2004

I love snails


Cordyceps Headache posted:

Wasn't the oil coming in from the US? I heard it was a shipment from North Dakota heading to Saint John's for refining.

E: Found a news link, though it's not where I remember hearing it from.
http://news.yahoo.com/canadian-oil-train-headed-irvings-saint-john-refinery-191528931.html


What I'm trying to figure out is how he won. There are no claims there was any rigging involved, so I'm guessing it's just that being a white person was enough to convince people in the riding association to vote for him. I don't know, I naively expected better from the ONDP.

I hate the Ontario NDP leadership quite a bit, they have some great grassroutes people though

That is one hell of a scummy move

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Cordyceps Headache posted:

What I'm trying to figure out is how he won. There are no claims there was any rigging involved, so I'm guessing it's just that being a white person was enough to convince people in the riding association to vote for him. I don't know, I naively expected better from the ONDP.
Well, no, Giambrone isn't just "a white person", and that's not why he won the nomination. He's very high profile and has connections both inside the NDP and outside, competent, experienced, and seen as electable. He was president of the NDP, a two term city councillor, and chair of the TTC. Realistically, any nomination in the city of Toronto was his for the taking if he wanted it.

The problem is that the nomination process should be irreproachable. Internal democracy is (or, um, should be) a really, really big, sacred deal, and anything that casts doubt on that, like the head of the Candidate Selection Committee himself becoming a candidate, undermines the members' confidence in their own party process and really makes a mockery of the "democratic" in NDP. People who are seeking a nomination should know better than to place themselves in this kind of conflict of interest, and have the restraint to seek a nomination once they are in conflict.

This is a huge lapse of judgement from both Giambrone and the ONDP leadership. I usually like to pretend the NDP is better than this.

(For christ's sake, there's going to be a byelection in Trinity—Spadina next year if he's really dying to get elected. He could have waited 6 months.)

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

The RCMP gave me a $230 ticket for drinking beer at Wreck Beach. He told me he could "make it go away" if I ratted out some dude who allegedly was selling drugs and booze on the beach. He asked me three times if I recognized the guy. Even after I was like "if I told you I recognized him then I would be lying". He really wanted me to rat the poor guy out.

Just glad to see the cops are doing such a great job keeping us all safe :angel:

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jul 9, 2013

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Please advise on the logistics of the RCMP ticketing naked people.

Heliophage
Aug 28, 2006
Devourer of Suns

THC posted:

The RCMP gave me a $230 ticket for drinking beer at Wreck Beach. He told me he could "make it go away" if I ratted out some dude who allegedly was selling drugs and booze on the beach. He asked me three times if I recognized the guy. Even after I was like "if I told you I recognized him then I would be lying". He really wanted me to rat the poor guy out.

Just glad to see the cops are doing such a great job keeping us all safe :angel:

That is awful. For those of you who haven't been, wreck is a clothing optional beach that has a very long and arduous staircase leading down to it. It's always pretty packed in the summer and there are people out on the beach who wander around with coolers full of various refreshments (sometimes containing intoxicants) for purchase. Most people down there drink and smoke weed with relative impunity although the cops come down every once in a while to crack down on the more obvious vendors. The general feel is that the police really aren't welcome and despite pretty much everyone down there being at some state between buzzed and tripping balls, I have never seen any problem on the beach except when it related to cops (e.g. them constantly threatening a completely harmless guy with his friends, pretty obviously on psychedelics until he started to freak out and they tackled him naked to the ground, hit him a few times and dragged him away.) The nature of the space means that everybody knows they are going to have the massive stairs to climb up at the end, people don't get tooooo drunk. Plus it's pretty clean because hippies will scream and yell if you leave something and thanks to Vancouver's incredible voluntary recycling army of homeless people and old chinese ladies no can remains on the beach for long. Anytime there has been a problem, an army of beach bums is always there to help diffuse a situation or give somebody water or whatever is needed. Anyways what I am saying is its bullshit you got a drink ticket there THC and I wish the cops would just leave well enough alone

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

Pinterest Mom posted:

Please advise on the logistics of the RCMP ticketing naked people.
Wreck is a designated clothing optional beach so I doubt they are doing this. They come down periodically to sweep for booze and drugs. I honestly don't even care about the fine that much. I was mostly upset about the cop trying to get me to gently caress over a stranger for 200 measly dollars.

If the university was part of the City of Van, or if we had a metro police service to replace the loving RCMP, then the sweeps probably wouldn't even be a thing.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe

THC posted:

Wreck is a designated clothing optional beach so I doubt they are doing this. They come down periodically to sweep for booze and drugs. I honestly don't even care about the fine that much. I was mostly upset about the cop trying to get me to gently caress over a stranger for 200 measly dollars.

If the university was part of the City of Van, or if we had a metro police service to replace the loving RCMP, then the sweeps probably wouldn't even be a thing.

gently caress the police.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
And double gently caress the RCMP.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
Also uh THC is your name Mike?

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
Warren Kinsella is wrong about a lot of stuff but I think he's spot on with his comments on deregulation:

quote:

The photos, and the stories, coming out of that Quebec town are truly astonishing. We should pray for the people there, and collectively push for a comprehensive investigation of the cause.

But after doing some research, I’ve formed some of my own conclusions. A taste of tomorrow’s Sun column:

Given the immensity of the destruction in Lac-Megantic, however – and given the possibility that as many as four dozen people may have been killed when crude oil on board detonated – it is too soon to start guessing about what did, and what didn’t, cause the catastrophe. A sad procession of probes, inquests and commissions of inquiry will determine who, and what, is culpable. Rushing to judgment serves no one in Lac-Megantic.

But of the many railway disasters that have taken place in this country in recent years, we need not be so patient. In those thousands of documented cases, from coast to coast, one thing emerges – again and again – as a cause. It is cited a reason for hundreds of deaths, injuries and accidents, no matter who is in power, and no matter where the railway disasters take place.

Deregulation.

Over the past two decades or so, government has systematically withdrawn from overseeing what happens on our 50,000 kilometres of rail tracks in Canada. The result has been death for citizens and railway workers, damage to the environment, and billions in lost property.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

THC posted:

Wreck is a designated clothing optional beach so I doubt they are doing this. They come down periodically to sweep for booze and drugs. I honestly don't even care about the fine that much. I was mostly upset about the cop trying to get me to gently caress over a stranger for 200 measly dollars.

I mostly meant "how big a loving violation is it for uniforced police to be walking around a nude beach ticketing people for petty stuff" with a side of "Uh, so when a cop tickets a naked person, how does that work and who is it more awkward for?"

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

I always kind of wondered how that would work? You're naked. Yo dick is swinging in the wind. Unless you have your personal info tattoo'd on your dick, who are they making the ticket out to?

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007

Butthole: the new pocket

Twiin
Nov 11, 2003

King of Suck!

Pinterest Mom posted:

This is a huge lapse of judgement from both Giambrone and the ONDP leadership. I usually like to pretend the NDP is better than this.

You would seriously not believe the lovely emails that people are sending Audra Williams right now.

Or maybe you would! But hoooooly poo poo either way.

I don't want to win elections like this!

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.
Wreck Beach is part of the UBC unincorporated lands and therefore falls under (awful terrible no good) RCMP jurisdiction.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

Pinterest Mom posted:

I mostly meant "how big a loving violation is it for uniforced police to be walking around a nude beach ticketing people for petty stuff" with a side of "Uh, so when a cop tickets a naked person, how does that work and who is it more awkward for?"
Oh, well, I was wearing shorts that day. The fuckers wear their bulletproof vests to the beach it's ridiculous.

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 9, 2013

Cocaine Bear
Nov 4, 2011

ACAB

quaint bucket posted:

Butthole: the new pocket

Uhh, new?

e: in something less off topic, the NP has announced that TRAIN WAS TAMPERED WITH BEFORE EXPLOSION!!!!! ... according to the spin doctor train company's spokesperson

I'm so sick of this loving bullshit. Was there ever a time when we had journalists instead of trained moneys that just print whatever loving PR package they're sent?

Cocaine Bear fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jul 9, 2013

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Twiin posted:

You would seriously not believe the lovely emails that people are sending Audra Williams right now.

Or maybe you would! But hoooooly poo poo either way.

I don't want to win elections like this!

Yeah, if normally cool folks from the ~nonpartisan~ Broadbent Institute are essentially accusing her of ableism in public, it's not too hard to imagine how vile it's getting in private.

Hal_2005
Feb 23, 2007

JoelJoel posted:

Uhh, new?

e: in something less off topic, the NP has announced that TRAIN WAS TAMPERED WITH BEFORE EXPLOSION!!!!! ... according to the spin doctor train company's spokesperson

I'm so sick of this loving bullshit. Was there ever a time when we had journalists instead of trained moneys that just print whatever loving PR package they're sent?

I think the key is that the train was on an old line, going at an unauthorized speed. It derailed, and thankfully the death toll was not higher. In the grand cosmic scheme of things, the disaster could be way worse, however the piece is only getting airtime because of #dirtyoil. If you go back even a few years, a massive chlorine spill occurred in SK. with nearly twice the car loss, and a whole town evacuation for a week. Total airtime given to the 14 car wreck of gaseous HCL wafting around SK? 1 day.

The story gives the Ontario and Quebec media a safe flack story from reporting on Egypt, where CBC was banned from most of the key hotspots and Syria, where they have been told explicitly to not interview further inside the warzone. It also enables them to distance themselves from any one of the various Trudeau snafu's this past month.

Cocaine Bear
Nov 4, 2011

ACAB

Hal_2005 posted:

I think the key is that the train was on an old line, going at an unauthorized speed. It derailed, and thankfully the death toll was not higher. In the grand cosmic scheme of things, the disaster could be way worse, however the piece is only getting airtime because of #dirtyoil. If you go back even a few years, a massive chlorine spill occurred in SK. with nearly twice the car loss, and a whole town evacuation for a week. Total airtime given to the 14 car wreck of gaseous HCL wafting around SK? 1 day.

The story gives the Ontario and Quebec media a safe flack story from reporting on Egypt, where CBC was banned from most of the key hotspots and Syria, where they have been told explicitly to not interview further inside the warzone. It also enables them to distance themselves from any one of the various Trudeau snafu's this past month.

I'd bet ten to one that it's human laziness and lack of operational resources and not conspiracy to not talk about the middle east or (almost) any other story. Fact is this story is easier, more sensational, and on everyone's collective mind (in Canada) already. They also likely aren't covering those two places you mentioned for a few simple reasons. On Egypt, well it's a complicated situation and people don't really know what to make of it. Joe Everyday don't know poo poo about Egyptian politics and the Canadian media are all competing for eyeballs, not trying to inform society regarding the subtle nuances of global politics. It's also expensive to report from Egypt and Syria, not to mention the security concerns (not only with sending your people but also with just talking to people and potentially putting them in danger). Syria is also hella complicated and a story that can't be summed up in a 30 second sound clip.

This is just, in my opinion, poo poo reporting and a culture of laziness, sensationalism, and entertainment news for profit.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Helsing posted:

Warren Kinsella is wrong about a lot of stuff but I think he's spot on with his comments on deregulation:

Seems pretty true. Also, I didn't put it together until just now, but while I'm sure you all heard about the flooding in Southern Alberta a few weeks ago, I don't know if this thread got the posts about the CP rail bridge that very nearly fell into the river with a bunch of cars loaded with what was described as a highly flammable liquid of some sort. CBC has a decent article with video here.

Calgary itself had city engineers running every which way inspecting its bridges, and being pretty conservative about what to open I guess. But the railways still fall under Federal jurisdiction (part of the gifted land for building the railway in the first place), so Calgary wasn't permitted to inspect/close the railway bridges. Fun fact: apparently CP wasn't inspecting them either!

CP CEO, Hunter Harrison posted:

“We would normally have probably put divers in to inspect but the current was too fast. Somebody would have drowned if they had tried to go in there, plus the current was so fast, and it’s so murky, you couldn’t do an appropriate inspection.”

Which of course makes a lot of sense. The river looked dangerous as poo poo, and I wouldn't have wanted any divers in there. Of course, it does then beg the question as to why there were trains on there in the first place. For that we have another quote:

CP VP Eng., Brent Laing posted:

"When you have water up so high, and you can't get a diver in the water … and you can't get any instrumentation in the water, how do you tell if there is a problem below? You look at the rails … if the rails are level, nothing is happening below."

:psyduck: Apparently "commercial pressures" induced CP to open the bridge despite not doing any actual inspection work. Classy poo poo.

I shall conclude with a quote from our brilliant mayor:

His Worship, Naheed Nenshi posted:

"How is it that we don't have regulatory powers over this, but it's my guys [referring to the city employees who moved the cars off the bridge] risking their lives over this?"

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 9, 2013

Political Whores
Feb 13, 2012

Pinterest Mom posted:

Yeah, if normally cool folks from the ~nonpartisan~ Broadbent Institute are essentially accusing her of ableism in public, it's not too hard to imagine how vile it's getting in private.

How is Adam Giambrone blind? Granted, I'm not really informed on his personal life, hadn't heard about him prior to this mess being mentioned in this thread, but the pictures and clips I've seen from googling his name don't paint a picture of a blind person. He's loving reading a document in one of them, while walking. Am I being obtuse? Was he blinded recently or something?

Twiin
Nov 11, 2003

King of Suck!

Cordyceps Headache posted:

How is Adam Giambrone blind? Granted, I'm not really informed on his personal life, hadn't heard about him prior to this mess being mentioned in this thread, but the pictures and clips I've seen from googling his name don't paint a picture of a blind person. He's loving reading a document in one of them, while walking. Am I being obtuse? Was he blinded recently or something?

The candidate who swooped in at the last minute to replace the person of colour (who got the NDP their highest vote tally since the 90s) in Ottawa South is blind. Different riding from Giambrone, similar story.

Hal_2005
Feb 23, 2007

JoelJoel posted:

I'd bet ten to one that it's human laziness and lack of operational resources and not conspiracy to not talk about the middle east or (almost) any other story. Fact is this story is easier, more sensational, and on everyone's collective mind (in Canada) already. They also likely aren't covering those two places you mentioned for a few simple reasons. On Egypt, well it's a complicated situation and people don't really know what to make of it. Joe Everyday don't know poo poo about Egyptian politics and the Canadian media are all competing for eyeballs, not trying to inform society regarding the subtle nuances of global politics. It's also expensive to report from Egypt and Syria, not to mention the security concerns (not only with sending your people but also with just talking to people and potentially putting them in danger). Syria is also hella complicated and a story that can't be summed up in a 30 second sound clip.

This is just, in my opinion, poo poo reporting and a culture of laziness, sensationalism, and entertainment news for profit.

1. the first Egypt election & power grab did not stop CBC from posting 3 senior reporters plus the editor at large in the middle of the hotzone. CBC and CTV globe media both tried to one-up themselves in middle east coverage & action journalism through both the Jasmine revolutions and Syrian hotspots. Suddenly they decided to go tools down when the story flares up again ? When each team has previously flaunted their flack jacket credentials ? I dont buy it. Sorry.

2. Sensationalism related to a minor train derailment to be painted into a ant-oil smear when the Liberals are seeking an election issue (any election issue, or any reason to make Trudeau relevant) is badly needed.

Its not a conspiracy theory mind you when it is a conspiracy fact. Just my opinion.

On another note (poo poo I really do not want to be dragged into D&D)

- CP did inspect the bridges. I'm not a CP shill, but given their due diligence and the weather conditions they did their job. Nechi is just trying to grab air time.
1. CP did visual inspections, divers could not enter the river to do sub-surface inspections because the current was about 40km/h and is Well (!!!) over the safe zone for where contractors can operate in. Little insight would have been gained from halting traffic over the bridge until divers went down, because the failure was due to a sheer of steel sub-surface. Had this event occured not during the flood, it would not have even made page 4 of the Calgary Herald.
2. The train was travelling at due care, less than 50% of its normal operating speed, and was well below what the federal and provincial government deem safe transport speed for a train going into those conditions.
3. Trains, not just CP run in all conditions. This is mostly a story of media ignorance. Anyone who has seen a tornado aftermath can tell you, they will find rail cars scattered in the debris. Trains by operating capacity and logistical mandate are one of the last things running in all conditions. The operating requirements are set by the federal insurance related to train management, and if your cargo is say; Federal contracted chemicals that need to be in Sarnia by Friday (and there is no excuse for a delay), then it needs and will get there by Friday. That is just how it runs, and its what keeps all countries ticking, railers deal with it.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Hal_2005 posted:

1. the first Egypt election & power grab did not stop CBC from posting 3 senior reporters plus the editor at large in the middle of the hotzone. CBC and CTV globe media both tried to one-up themselves in middle east coverage & action journalism through both the Jasmine revolutions and Syrian hotspots. Suddenly they decided to go tools down when the story flares up again ? When each team has previously flaunted their flack jacket credentials ? I dont buy it. Sorry.

2. Sensationalism related to a minor train derailment to be painted into a ant-oil smear when the Liberals are seeking an election issue (any election issue, or any reason to make Trudeau relevant) is badly needed.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?

CBC has people on the ground in Egypt, Sasa Petricic and Derek Stoffel at least are both in Cairo (there's a video at this page that has Petricic on the phone from Cairo, and pictures here that Stoffel was taking in Tahrir Square like two days ago). On top of that, Egypt isn't exactly the safest place for journalists right now, what with the allegations of the Dutch journalist being gang-raped in Tahrir Square. And Petricic isn't really a slouch in terms of front line reporting, just recently he was arrested in Istanbul for covering the Turkish protests too closely.

Second, this 'minor train derailment' has killed 13 people, and probably dozens more who are still missing and may have to be identified by DNA off of their cremains. That's hardly a minor incident. Yes, more people die every day from car accidents and diabetes and whatever, but that doesn't make a train exploding in the middle of a small town not news. Did you complain after the Boston bombings that the news media should have been off covering something else because only three people died?

I seriously don't understand what this weird media conspiracy you've come up with relating to the Liberals is. Like it makes zero sense.

Cocaine Bear
Nov 4, 2011

ACAB

Hal_2005 posted:

1. the first Egypt election & power grab did not stop CBC from posting 3 senior reporters plus the editor at large in the middle of the hotzone. CBC and CTV globe media both tried to one-up themselves in middle east coverage & action journalism through both the Jasmine revolutions and Syrian hotspots. Suddenly they decided to go tools down when the story flares up again ? When each team has previously flaunted their flack jacket credentials ? I dont buy it. Sorry.

These are two wildly different scenarios. Plus this story is still in it's early stages, the army only gave Moris that ultimatum less than a week ago. And the CBC does have people on the ground.

Hal_2005 posted:

2. Sensationalism related to a minor train derailment to be painted into a ant-oil smear when the Liberals are seeking an election issue (any election issue, or any reason to make Trudeau relevant) is badly needed.

Are you loving kidding me? Seriously, please explain how this is a minor train related incident.

Hal_2005 posted:

Its not a conspiracy theory mind you when it is a conspiracy fact. Just my opinion.

You're an idiot.



Hey, maybe wait till we have an investigation, or at least all the facts, or at least the approximate loving death toll before we decide what happened.

Cocaine Bear fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jul 9, 2013

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

THC posted:

I was wearing shorts that day. The fuckers wear their bulletproof vests to the beach it's ridiculous.

A side note: it amuses me to no end that the CBSA stormtroopers at the airport wear bulletproofs, despite working in perhaps the least dangerous public facing facilities in the entire country, as everyone has just come off planes.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I went to a CBSA office in Victoria in a very nice downtown office building full of very normal offices. Their office is just a little place you pay your taxes and duties on poo poo. The lady in there, who looked like your typical middle-aged office lady, was sporting a loving bullet proof vest and everyone there was all TACTICAL. It looked loving ridiculous. Who makes these policies? It seems absolutely pathetic to take them selves that seriously.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
Fascists.

Shofixti
Nov 23, 2005

Kyaieee!

Nobody seems to have mentioned it but Toronto has been hit with torrential rain this evening. Eagerly awaiting some sort of Rob Ford flood related incident.

http://www.thestar.com/photos/2013/07/08/heavy_rain_floods_hit_toronto.html
http://www.thestar.com/photos/2013/07/08/flooded_train_rescue.html

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Ceciltron
Jan 11, 2007

Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!
Pillbug

people posted:

border services

It's interesting to consider that the CBSA pretty much operate independently and have almost no civilian oversight/accountability. They're like a mercenary army. They go on busts to grab individual undocumented aliens/deportation order ignorers with full SWAT style equipment, like, surrounding buildings and everything.

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Hal_2005
Feb 23, 2007

vyelkin posted:

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?

CBC has people on the ground in Egypt, Sasa Petricic and Derek Stoffel at least are both in Cairo (there's a video at this page that has Petricic on the phone from Cairo, and pictures here that Stoffel was taking in Tahrir Square like two days ago). On top of that, Egypt isn't exactly the safest place for journalists right now, what with the allegations of the Dutch journalist being gang-raped in Tahrir Square. And Petricic isn't really a slouch in terms of front line reporting, just recently he was arrested in Istanbul for covering the Turkish protests too closely.

Second, this 'minor train derailment' has killed 13 people, and probably dozens more who are still missing and may have to be identified by DNA off of their cremains. That's hardly a minor incident. Yes, more people die every day from car accidents and diabetes and whatever, but that doesn't make a train exploding in the middle of a small town not news. Did you complain after the Boston bombings that the news media should have been off covering something else because only three people died?

I seriously don't understand what this weird media conspiracy you've come up with relating to the Liberals is. Like it makes zero sense.

Yes, and how much coverage are they providing vs. their Bosnia, Syria, Yemen, or Libyan coverage ? go on, I'll wait while you count up airtime minutes or google hits. compare and contrast. I'm just speculating, as I am entitled to in D&D that they are electing to go after a low-hanging sensationalist story with a train derailment vs. explaining their editorial and op. ed. stances made during the Egyptian elections due to the gearing up for a 2014 election cycle, and hoping to make something stick.

Yes, this minor train derailment is pretty small news. In the grand cosmic scheme ? If it had happened in a SK town (when it did) it barely made 1 day media cycle. The fact the train was an Oil tanker load, occurred in the Montreal lowlands, a swing district, and plays with current Provincial anti-energy policies must only be a coincidence, right ? You have to admit, its pretty convenient that the only story being cast is that 1.) it was a dirty oil train, 2.) lookit all this damage caused when we use the dirty oil, amitrite?
Nary a media report on the state of the train, the decay of the Quebec run rail line, nary a report on the lack of rail diligence done by the Quebec government....
from where I sit ? it's a pretty opportunistic story. That is just how I see the facts, and we can argue about what is not being reported if you like.

If the Boston bombing only focused on the cooking pot, and the bombers ethnic ties to Islam for 5 days straight, then I would also be skeptical of that coverage due to the lack of asking for evidential reporting and fact finding vs. first-reporter heresay and hype speculation. If they provided a clean news report, a follow up and a return to the major event news cycle (ie. Egypt, the Portugal government collapsing, Chinese riots... Syria rebels being nearly defeated), then (!) I would consider the media to be doing a proper coverage and unbiased job on the story.

Liberal bias is framed against the historical views and admitted skewing done to gain eyeballs on both federal and regional coverage going back to 1998. CTV and CBC, both the flag leaders on this 'national catastrophe' are both the largest contributors to the Liberal party by local donations and election coverage. As I said, it's just a fact known to most of the establishment of Canada. There is a drat good reason why some people are seen as serial contributors to some news-rags and most stay away from their pages or will only give quotes as annon. to their staff. If it seems like a weird constriction to you, that is your opinion and I wish you good times.

As I said above, this is D&D; I posted my view, and I am entitled to that much amid this forum of free minded salon-goers. :)

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